5k crits, and the myth sorcs don't have burst.

[_Minmaxer_]

After several 4900+ hits I finally reached the 5k milestone again. I still have several possible gear upgrades, so its nice to know there are probably more coming the future.

 

Burst: I can burst for 10k in 3 instant skills when my relic is off CD.

 

I am making this post in the hopes that there is some information that others will find useful. I have taken a different route with spec and gearing than most, so here are some thoughts from outside the box. Pretty much everything here relates to pvp, as I have done a total of 3 flashpoints in my SWTOR lifetime. I did heal a heroic BT with this spec to get my Biochemical Alloy, no idea if healing other heroics are possible.

 

My spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201GhbkZfc0MzZcMcRsMz.1

It is similar to the ultimate hybrid specs, but I have only taken forcebending 1, 50% chance for cast reduction on dark infusion is still really good and I still have instant Whirlwind.

 

My Gear: I have 2 BM implants, earpiece, weapon and two armor pieces, the rest is champion. I have the 4 piece STALKER set.

 

2pc bonus: 5m increase on force slow/jolt

4pc bonus: +1 recklessness charge, -15sec CD

 

But the stalker gear is MDPS and has accuracy enhancements which are useless...

Well, the force master/mystic gear has alacrity mods, which guess what, are pretty much useless...I have replaced the alacrity/accuracy mods with crit/surge. I believe I have 83% surge and 30% crit.

 

Recklessness. I believe this is our most undervalued skill. With 30% base crit from stats this is basically an auto-crit when you factor in other talents and buffs. If you use before force lightning, all of your ticks will crit. Due to my high surge rating I tick for about 1200 on squishy targets with buffs. This skill is what lets us plan our burst.

 

When looking to burst, my approach is generally to pop relic and red buff, force lightning until wrath proc, pop recklessness then chain lightning, deathfield,and shock. The last 3 skills should all crit, and depending on gear and armor type of my opponent will deal between 8 and 11.5k.

 

Odds and Ends:

 

The only time I use a spell with a cast-time is when I am casting dark infusion on myself out of LOS, or healing another player that is getting focused. I heal good players, doing good things. I think a lot of healers are too concerned with trying to keep everyone alive, but when trying to cap points you are more useful to your team trying to kill people. I don't think this is ever cut and dry though, you really have to read each situation and determine what to do. Sometimes its more important to let your ally die so you can kill a guy 5 seconds faster, especially on Voidstar when trying to beat a respawn.

 

Affliction feels like a waste of a GCD in this spec. It is useful on stealthing classes and people trying to cap doors/turrets, or when chasing someone and both shock and force slow are on CD. You also don't want dots on a target if you need to use an emergency whirlwind. It can also be dispelled. Good healers will dispel your slow, affliction goes right along with it.

 

I hardly every use crushing darkness anymore. The initial 2k hit compared to 3.5k from an average chain lightning crit does not seem worth it. You also can't discount the psychological factor of big numbers. People see big numbers and they run, which pretty much makes them free kills. The dot portion can also be dispelled.

 

Stun and run. I can't count the number of times people have caught me low on health thinking they have a free kill. I stun them, they stun break, then eat the full 8 second duration of my whirlwind as I run away and heal.

 

1v1 I die to good melee. The ones that know how to manage their interrupts, leaps, stuns and my resolve bar. It may take them a minute, and sometimes through use of the power-ups in WZs or help of team members I will live. Sometimes I can be frustrating enough that they will give up. But it is inevitable, the only questions is how long. Thankfully there are very few melee that know how to play their class to the fullest.

 

That's enough of a brain dump for now...I am open to questions, criticisms, discussion, and trolling.

 

Ohm of Hedarr Soongh

[SquiBBo]

the 5k crit was on what targter?

 

light armor, 0 pvp gear, mostly in greens?

u were using relic, red?

 

in this case, maybe yes maybe could u do that. but the point is this : equally geared players or any non light armor target and u can be happy if u even get a 4k crit =)

 

speaken from personal experience only ofc , 82% surge . 1.6k will , 34% crit and around 500 of this pvp stat (dunno the name , as im playing with the german client , pendant to Blizzards resilience)

 

another thing, didnt they nerf recklessness and wrath in last update. meaning u wont get the 99% crit chance on CL and CD anymore ? - sidenote , techniocally spoken 99% crit on CD is better than 99% crit on instant dmg if u want to kill an enemy fast. i used this rotation when i ran madness hybrid specc :

 

pain-->force --> wrath --> reckless -> cd --> force --> CL . its the reckless->cd-->force part that does the dmg here. as all u want to have is ur dots rolling(aswell as a hasted force, dmg just skyrockets then), CL cant keep up with Deathfield anyways, even less with creeping terror.(not given trispecc ofc )

 

 

 

ps. as im re-reading my post i got the feeling i might have written a bit offending. I didnt mean to do that, just the result of my words , im just too tired to rewrtite it.

 

 

edit: i think the dot i called pain is actually called affliction in the english client.

Edited February 6, 2012 by SquiBBo

[House_of_Elnino]

what spell do you get 5k hit on your line up? Looking at it and I dont see what spell you using to get the 5k HIT

[_Minmaxer_]

The 5k crits were on two different characters, a shadow and a sage using chain lightning following a wrath proc for the 20% damage bonus.. They were both full health so it is unlikely they were debuffed, but were most likely fresh 50s in poor gear. I was using the red buff and champion power relic at the time. I also use the red matrix cube instead of a second pvp relic so I sit around 620 expertise.

 

Also being try spec I have access to 10% more damage on AoEs, so a 3.6k crit for most is a 4k hit for me. 4k to 4.4k hits are quite common, as the numbers approach 5k the frequency is rarer.

 

Recklessness, wrath and chain lightning together have always behaved as expected: lots of big numbers are people scattering/dieing quickly.

[House_of_Elnino]

what are your stats again.. willpower and such...

 

currently have 1278 endurance and 1419 willpower...

 

29.29% crit and 84.76 critical multiplier...

 

these are just with my own buffs and no other buffs...forgot what my stats are when fully buffed in warzone...

 

also is chain lighning considered an AE DMG and gets buffed from Forced Suffusion???

[Anelyn]

All AoE attacks are buffed by it (heals too). The thing is, Death Field should be the highest hit / crit since it deals internal damage and completely ignores any armor the target has, so even if CL has a higher delve, it gets reduced by armor by minimum 15% (light armor, if not higher). If Crushing Darkness was internal as well, Madness dmg would be great, but being kinetic CD will do very little dmg on tanks compared to DF / Affliction / CT which all deal internal.

 

Yes a healer can dispell dots, but they can't dispell everything. Is RNG, as you will have on them: affliction, crushing darkness, CT and the snare from FL. They will dispell 2 effects which can be the snare (instantly reapplied from FL channel) and 1 dot. The dmg from DF and FL are good enough for pressure (as well from remaining dot / dots after 1st purge) that they will have to consider sparing another global on cleanse or healing. I am constantly purging myself when facing other sorcs (as well as melee force users since most of their snares are force, and dots too), but I can't do it on cooldown, as there are loads of things going on and you need to put some pressure / get distance as well etc (interrupt/ knocback and so on).

 

The fear that Full Madness / Ballance is not viable is unfounded, same as with marauder anni or sent watchman.

 

Anyway gz on that 5k crit, I will prolly attempt to get that number with a full lightning spec stacking surge and power and counting on autocrit from TB (internal dmg) to see if I can get close :>

[_Minmaxer_]

I can post my complete self-buffed stats when I have access to my character.

 

Edit: Stats with Rakata stim (136WP and 56 power) and self buff

 

1286 Endurance

1587 Willpower

625 Expertise

319 Power

1217 Force Power

 

670.7 bonus damage

483.3 bonus healing

30.36 Critical Chance

83.61 Critical Multiplier

4.97% Activation Speed

 

Both chain lightning and death field are buffed by force suffusion.Chain lightning is always cast with the wrath buff which grants it +20% damage putting it above death field.

 

Dispel obviously doesn't totally invalidate dots, but it does lessen their potential effectiveness. Dispelling the Assassin/Shadow snare is my favourite use of the ability.

 

The fact that CD does kinetic damage and that I'm not specced up to deathmark is what really turns me off. The frequency at which I use it has definitely decreased as I have geared up.

 

I can't speak to the viability of full spec into either tree as I've never tried them. Some people obviously have success with those specs. I've basically played this spec since reaching 50 and gives me everything I want from a ranged dps and more. I've played both dot and DD based casters, but never before have I had a dispel (if limited), and heals at my disposal before. It doesn't seem fair sometimes (and perhaps it isn't).

Edited February 7, 2012 by _Minmaxer_

[Anelyn]

That's why is most likely they will kill the hybrid spec, either by moving wrath up 1 tier or some other moves like they did for sins / shadows.

 

Probably they can attach an UA mechanic on creeping terror for balance, and give deep lightning a haste buff on affliction dispelled from target? (i know similar to wow mechanics, but those worked pretty nice, peeps actually have to think about dispelling risk & reward).

 

I would love to play lightning myself, but if TB doesn't get buffed in dmg to make it worth spend 2s on a cast while avoiding / baiting interrupts and knocbacks / los problems, it the dmg is similar to a DF crit (yes 50% vs 30% crit dmg bonus difference, but DF is also aoe so imho pretty balanced from that point of view).

 

They could also make lightning barrage a tier 4 talent for lightning to become exclusive for this spec, then each spec would live on it's strengths and weaknesses.

 

The hybrid is more powerful than either pure spec by confering chained burst and mobility without need of casting. Which makes the burst unpredictable and unavoidable.

 

Lightning: if I let that sorc finish TB cast with affliction on me while he glows of sparkles, i will eat a huge TB crit into CL into shock = ouch time! Interrupt / los / knockback or pop a defensive CD! (by huge I don't mean 5-6k Crits on TB, but 3-3.5k should be possible at a moderate level of gear, so that min-maxers would push it to 4-4.5k top)

 

Madness: every 15s burst with DF and CD which should do summed up ~5k if both crit (which I believe is close to their current dmg no?). And same pressure from high sustained dmg as before.

 

Atm I really feel lightning is a wash in term of dmg / burst compared to a merc or sniper for example (both being more or less turret mode rdps).

 

Other ideas?

[_Minmaxer_]

At the very least I expect wrath to be given the "This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds" treatment. I don't think they are to the point of adjusting skill position in trees yet.

[Anelyn]

At the very least I expect wrath to be given the "This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds" treatment. I don't think they are to the point of adjusting skill position in trees yet.

 

But that won't change anything (or much) since CL has 6s cd, and CD has 15s cd (which are pretty much only or most used cast time spells for the proc).

 

Hope they won't follow WoW mechanic, of having to fill a tree till 30 pt before putting points in other trees (which would kill all hybrid specs for all classes).

[darthtrunkmonkey]

Again whats the problem with killing the hybrids?

 

I still don't see why people spec hybrids in the first place...

Edited February 7, 2012 by darthtrunkmonkey

[Xehoz]

I hardly every use crushing darkness anymore. The initial 2k hit compared to 3.5k from an average chain lightning crit does not seem worth it. You also can't discount the psychological factor of big numbers. People see big numbers and they run, which pretty much makes them free kills. The dot portion can also be dispelled.

 

That actually why I don't open with Death Field in the Force Lightning / Wrath / Chain Lightning combo. I don't want them to be scared too soon. I want them well stacked.

[_Minmaxer_]

That actually why I don't open with Death Field in the Force Lightning / Wrath / Chain Lightning combo. I don't want them to be scared too soon. I want them well stacked.

 

Yup, I lead with chain lightning and follow up with death field. This also gives time for CL to come off CD for the next wrath proc. This works especially well in Alderan and Voidstar when groups are defending doors/turrets as they tend to stay fairly grouped up.

[Lasti]

pics or it didn't happen

[Cempa]

Yup, I lead with chain lightning and follow up with death field. This also gives time for CL to come off CD for the next wrath proc. This works especially well in Alderan and Voidstar when groups are defending doors/turrets as they tend to stay fairly grouped up.

 

I gotta try that, my Reck always went to Force Lightning + Relic+Stim+Red Ball, then I use crit Adrenal and so on.

 

Death Field + Reck is nice I just seem to always forget about it.

 

I'll craft a Surge Adrenal and see how that goes with Reck+CL+Death F.

[Delekii]

Again whats the problem with killing the hybrids?

 

I still don't see why people spec hybrids in the first place...

 

Because they do the most damage?

[Anelyn]

Most burst damage, high sustained dps and mobile, great force regen tools and survability.

 

Which is a problem in and by itself - not with you guys who obviously try to get best bang for your buck with talents, but from dev's. They need to make each tree individually appealing and great at it's purpose DoT or chain cast turret dmg. In big lines the design is not bad, but the way they made trees makes it that a hybrid can get both.

 

Look at mercenary pyro and arsenal. You can't make such powerfull hybrid, the trees synergize better, and you WANT the tier 30 talent because it makes a great addition and great impact in game play, pve or pvp. That's the problem that needs fixing.

 

Make deathmark affect only caster dots, increase dmg by 50% up from 20%, add a greenish border to own cast dots on a target to easily distinguish from other casters, increase TB dmg and make it instant cast, or leave it 2s, but add a 5s root that doesn't break on dmg or something.

 

Anyone has any info if shield takes into account player / attacker stats before absorbing damage? IE: a sorc with 0 expertise hit by a marauder with 600 expertise, vs a sorc with 600 expertise vs a marauder with 0 expertise - does shield absorb same static amount, or expertise has an effect on shield? As in dmg calculated after bypassing shield or calculated regarding to defense armor pvp stat then calculating absorbed dmg etc. Cheers.

[Nenyx]

(Hi. I hope my English will be good enough, please excuse any mistakes ^^)

 

_Minmaxer_, I'm pretty interrested in your tree build. But there are some things I would like to ask.

 

First, considering the damage output, I think the "hybrid sorcerer" is clearly one of the best. I've played hybrid for a month, it's very dependant on gear, but efficient. But concerning the burst ... OK, with recklessness, wrath-chain lightning then death field and shock (double shock is possible), the target won't have to suffer for long. But did you consider the burst capability of lightning barrage ?

 

Well, it's not easy to use, as it's a proc, and a rare one (wrath will often proc quickly after 1 or 2 FL, but lightning barrage is not so reliable). You need a crit on one dot, but recklessness don't work on dots. The solution is to prepare by putting 2 or 3 dots on differents, uninteresting targets, then attack your target. You need preparation, but it's highly efficient, giving 1 ou 2 FL (if you're quick enough) at 50% alacrity, and a nearly garanted Wrath proc at the end.

 

 

Second, with such a build, do you happen to be low on force ? I wanted to try a similar build, but I feared I would be out of Force at some point, having only Electric induction, Reserve & Sith Efficacy. I like Lightning Efflusion, but this skill is too expensive to take in a 3-hybrid build.

 

 

Third, did you consider Empty body ? I guessed empty body would be more efficient with the hot, but Lucidity allows you to cast reliable Dark Infusion. So, how do you manage your heals ? Do you prefers to use Resurgence and slowly recover you heath while you keep attacking, or do you use Resurgence only to proc and cast a fast Dark Infusion ?

Edited February 7, 2012 by Nenyx

[dollarfiveo]

surge adrenal is pretty awful.

 

surge only needs like 350 rating to get like 90%. you should have a fair amount on your gear. the adrenal gives 560 rating, of which a majority of it is wasted. stick with the power adrenal. when you have that much of one rating, power is the only one that won't experience significant diminishing returns

[McWallBucks]

Surge has diminishing returns. As the percentage increases, the benefit decreases. The surge adrenal is really only worth it if you have zero surge and no power adrenal for whatever reason. the above post is right.

[Anelyn]

I start to prefer power more and more. It feels better for my playstyle :-)

[dollarfiveo]

the hell does it have to do with playstyle? it's just better

[House_of_Elnino]

has anybody gotten 5k hit with this build yet or gotten close to it?

[Backer]

Didn't the feb 7 patch, make it so Death Field no longer crits, would this rotation still work?

[spellegren]

Didn't the feb 7 patch, make it so Death Field no longer crits, would this rotation still work?

 

The heck you talking about?!?

 

Patch notes on Deathfield: Death Field: Heals the caster for 1% of maximum health for each target struck. This healing effect can no longer crit and no longer consumes Recklessness charges.

 

The *healing* effect can no longer crit, the damage portion is unchanged.