ANALYSIS: Scoundrel is the Worst Class in the Game at Everything

[Blankchild]

Yeah if you're going to play a stealth class roll a shadow. The Scoundrel is just simply broken until level 40, and then it becomes viable but still inferior to what a shadow can bring to a wz or raid.

 

Keep in mind you will not feel like a real ac until level 40, healing or dps, how stupid is that?

 

At any rate, 1.2 is make it or break it for me. If scoundrels continue to suck I'm probably just going to unsub.

[madcater]

This class is broken and usless right now and has been for since the last few patches. Like this game and have another class to play. But why screw one class this bad, please explain bioware Edited March 10, 2012 by madcater

[maggito]

Funnily enough I actually went back to check out my Scoundrel tonight because I always get interested in Ops healing. I have a 50 BM Sorc that I got bored with and the healing just isn't for me so I was always DPS. I've now got a 27 Merc that I love to heal with. Popped on my old Scoundrel just to see what I could do at only lvl 20. It seemed pretty effective to me. I kept my team alive enough and racked up the heals like crazy. If that server weren't dead I'd probably run both my Scoundrel and Merc. Lvl 20 is nothing, but when you continually make alts like I do it kinda sucks to get to 20.

 

 

 

Like I said though I know nothing of the class. I hopped on respecced and jumped into a WZ.

[Omeleet]

And pray tell how are yo going to kill a healer that has half a brain cell left in his head? Seriously, yes, most of you are internet tough guys. I get a crap-ton of medals, I do a lot of damage in WZ's, big deal.

 

Again, when you have to work SO MUCH harder than other classes, when there is no "advanced" label on the class, when the numbers of people playing this class are shrinking, that is an issue.

 

You can laugh and say everyone is a noob and they are missing out and you can be all leet in your little class, but this kind of attitude damages the class as a whole and results in the underlying problems being ignored by the devs.

 

If that is your goal, good job. A number of use played through multiple versions of beta, gave a lot of feedback, and still scoundrels require more effort to perform at an acceptable level than other classes.

 

I don't play scrapper, more partial to Sawbones, even then I have been playing my Powertech a lot more lately. I am saying when I play coordinated PVP, that is my kill target order. That is what I tell everyone to burn down first. Marauders are only last because they have like 50 cheat death mechanics but no cc immunities.

[Coldin]

Funnily enough I actually went back to check out my Scoundrel tonight because I always get interested in Ops healing. I have a 50 BM Sorc that I got bored with and the healing just isn't for me so I was always DPS. I've now got a 27 Merc that I love to heal with. Popped on my old Scoundrel just to see what I could do at only lvl 20. It seemed pretty effective to me. I kept my team alive enough and racked up the heals like crazy. If that server weren't dead I'd probably run both my Scoundrel and Merc. Lvl 20 is nothing, but when you continually make alts like I do it kinda sucks to get to 20.

 

 

 

Like I said though I know nothing of the class. I hopped on respecced and jumped into a WZ.

 

Yep. Level 20 is nothing. You don't even get Emergency Medpac yet which is our most useful heal.

 

The game feels "mostly" balanced before level 50. But after that...when gear turns good classes into great classes, you can really see the issues with Scoundrel/Operative.

[Blankchild]

Honestly my problem with this class is levels 1-35 are just horrible. I'm not sure what other scoundrels do to get through this, but i'm certain it's not having fun.

 

No one plays this ac because it's hard as hell to be effective. It's based on directional attacks, no gap closer, and it's the ONLY class that doesn't get to be fun until you're almost 50.

 

Trying to shoot someone in the back in a WZ is a nightmare. You target the guy, sneak behind him, shoot BUT oh wait he reappeared on the other side of the map because of the god awful lag and you get knocked out of cover by one of the 5 sorcs on the imp team, and then annihilated.

 

I don't need a dps parse to tell me scoundrels suck in WZ.

 

If you want to be effective in a wz as a scoundrel you really need to think about speccing heals, in which case is laughably bad until level 36 (Is that crazy or what?!).

 

"Scoundrels aren't broken they just don't good until about level 40." Not broken my ***. Who wants to play a class that doesn't get fun until level 36-40?

 

I'm not saying we should make scoundrels op but c'mon give us a fighting chance ffs.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Blankchild

[Herbalist]

lol...

[Ahebish]

Oh but it is easy to compare. Count the force armor as healing done, which it is directly equivalent to. The next steps are simple:

 

1) Run your healing rotation with a 50 sage for 10 minutes (including force armor) and record it with fraps.

2) Run your healing rotation with a 50 scoundrel who has the same stats as the sage for 10 minutes. Record that with fraps as well.

3) watch the recorded movies and note down exactly how much is healed (raw healing + absorbed through force armor) and compare them.

 

That's the way we do in the scientific world and it has worked out just fine for the last couple of thousand years - why should it all of a sudden not be a valid approach?

 

Btw, I'm not trying to undermine your work, I only would like some numbers on it, because I am very interested in knowing the exact strengths and weaknesses of my class!

 

That's not going to cut it

 

there are stat and modifier differences.

 

A better test would be get a naked smug/op healer and a naked sorc/sage healer

 

Stand them side by side have them go through their whole heal rotations on themselves and see who hits bigger heal numbers.

 

This way gear/stats are not a factor, and only base stats relative to each class matters and are "not a variable of consideration"

 

Whoever has higher heal numbers is overpowered whoever doesn't needs a boost over a given duration say 10 seconds.

 

Very simple.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Ahebish

[BravilRennd]

I never got to play Scoundrels before they were nerfed, but I'm sure they were very fun.

 

I do quite well to be honest in all warzones, however, I HAVE to cherry-pick.

 

I'm level 48 and I've got the best PVE gear you can get, my opener usually only hits for 1.5k. I've even opened with hitting in the 900's... That's just sad.

 

On my 50 commando every Grav Round hits for over 2k.

[ML_DoubleTap]

I never got to play Scoundrels before they were nerfed, but I'm sure they were very fun.

 

I do quite well to be honest in all warzones, however, I HAVE to cherry-pick.

 

I'm level 48 and I've got the best PVE gear you can get, my opener usually only hits for 1.5k. I've even opened with hitting in the 900's... That's just sad.

 

On my 50 commando every Grav Round hits for over 2k.

 

Can't remember what I did pre-50, but I'm a healer specced 28-13-0 and I get the 2.5K single hit almost every game. I almost always end up in the 250k healing and 100k damage range. If I only focus on healing I hit between 350 and 400k, and that's without my AoE specced.

 

We are an amazing single target healing class. With the main tank I usually pvp with we can easily stay up indefinitely against 3; 4 if they aren't all BM. Our free instant cast EMP is huge, and our mobility is a giant advantage.

[vartius]

And pray tell how are yo going to kill a healer that has half a brain cell left in his head? Seriously, yes, most of you are internet tough guys. I get a crap-ton of medals, I do a lot of damage in WZ's, big deal.

 

Again, when you have to work SO MUCH harder than other classes, when there is no "advanced" label on the class, when the numbers of people playing this class are shrinking, that is an issue.

 

You can laugh and say everyone is a noob and they are missing out and you can be all leet in your little class, but this kind of attitude damages the class as a whole and results in the underlying problems being ignored by the devs.

 

If that is your goal, good job. A number of use played through multiple versions of beta, gave a lot of feedback, and still scoundrels require more effort to perform at an acceptable level than other classes.

 

I kill healers all the time as Sawbones/Shrap Bomb spec, just not solo. Burst the healer hard enough that they focus on surviving from you. Your team HoTed + your DoTs kill their healing targets then they help burst down the healer.

 

Work harder? Dude this is a game. Take it or leave it. Our class plays the way it does and if you don't like the variety of skills change to a skill spam class. Yes its lousy that we have to pop adrenals/relics/stims/medpacs to operate at a high level, but all classes are going to move this way.

[Howbadisbad]

I kill healers all the time as Sawbones/Shrap Bomb spec, just not solo. Burst the healer hard enough that they focus on surviving from you. Your team HoTed + your DoTs kill their healing targets then they help burst down the healer.

 

Work harder? Dude this is a game. Take it or leave it. Our class plays the way it does and if you don't like the variety of skills change to a skill spam class. Yes its lousy that we have to pop adrenals/relics/stims/medpacs to operate at a high level, but all classes are going to move this way.

 

This post = Your class is underpowered, working as intended.

[Powderhorn]

That's really what I got out of it too. If we're supposed to be a healer killer, why can't we kill a healer 1v1?

[Coldin]

Can't remember what I did pre-50, but I'm a healer specced 28-13-0 and I get the 2.5K single hit almost every game. I almost always end up in the 250k healing and 100k damage range. If I only focus on healing I hit between 350 and 400k, and that's without my AoE specced.

 

We are an amazing single target healing class. With the main tank I usually pvp with we can easily stay up indefinitely against 3; 4 if they aren't all BM. Our free instant cast EMP is huge, and our mobility is a giant advantage.

 

That is one thing. Shoot First pretty much guarantees us a 2.5k hit. And even as a Scrapper spec, I can hit 2.5k heal.

 

I think our heal issue with healing though is that we can easily be shut down if we run out of Upper Hand. Infinitely spamming Emergency Medpac is very nice, but I would like to have one long cooldown heal/defense I can hit to keep damage off myself or others while I ramp back up healing. Maybe the front-loaded healing to Kolto Cloud will fill in that role.

[ML_DoubleTap]

That is one thing. Shoot First pretty much guarantees us a 2.5k hit. And even as a Scrapper spec, I can hit 2.5k heal.

 

I think our heal issue with healing though is that we can easily be shut down if we run out of Upper Hand. Infinitely spamming Emergency Medpac is very nice, but I would like to have one long cooldown heal/defense I can hit to keep damage off myself or others while I ramp back up healing. Maybe the front-loaded healing to Kolto Cloud will fill in that role.

 

There is no reason to run out of upper hand. You can get it extremely fast w/ SRMP on yourself +1 teammate. Also, if you are in trouble, it probably means there are enemies around you, just b/tch slap on of them and get your instant UH proc. And the defensive cool down is Defense Screen, it does a pretty good job, especially if you pair w/ a defensive relic cooldown.

[Coldin]

There is no reason to run out of upper hand. You can get it extremely fast w/ SRMP on yourself +1 teammate. Also, if you are in trouble, it probably means there are enemies around you, just b/tch slap on of them and get your instant UH proc. And the defensive cool down is Defense Screen, it does a pretty good job, especially if you pair w/ a defensive relic cooldown.

 

I've never had much success with Defense Screen. The damage it absorbs is so minimal that it's usually gone in the second I took to cast it. I also seem to have extremely poor luck when it comes to getting Upper Hand off of SRMP. Even if I had better luck, it still requires some ramp up time, which I might not have if an ally is need of a heal right away.

[Daiyukie]

A few select can do this still. The ones who know about the mechanics, the gear, the buffs, and the setups.

 

The "general player" in both scoundrel and ops groups do not or don't have the gear or whatever the few pros can do. I'm not trying to call everyone else nubs here, it's just there are a small % of players that still make it seem like the class nerf wasn't enough.

 

The baseline class and say normal gear most have access to do not allow them to "faceroll" or melt people in combat anymore. The nerf did filter out a lot of FOTMers, but it still left the average player who wants to play the class feeling like they were beaten to a pulp with the nerf.

 

The nerf aimed at the general player populace of the class it seems, the people who know what they are doing, have all the gear, buffs, beat the game, etc can take people down almost as easily as before (Instead of 2 seconds it's like 4 now lol)

 

An example of such player is an operative on my server named Coot, this dude face melts republic players (Including me and I am geared) as if the nerf did nothing to him.

 

On closer examination of him he is 100% geared, has all the right consumables, rotations, hot keys, pretty much everything to be pro. He's the 1% on the server though, I pretty much laugh at the other ops I run into and tell them "that tickled" as I am beating them to death on my sawbones.

 

On my server that person is Joom, a godly Scoundrel that always seems to have full resolve bar, everything off cool down, huge crits and an escape to stealth ready. I can kill other scoundrels with relative ease as a BH, but Joom terrorizes the Imperial side of the server for the couple hours straight he seems to queue most days. I made a Scoundrel alt and got him to 35 so far to better understand how he does it, but I have no idea. He's vanished while I'm Unloading into his back and once when I DfA'd his general area. Is it even possible to stealth out of those situations? I can't o.o

[Blankchild]

On my server that person is Joom, a godly Scoundrel that always seems to have full resolve bar, everything off cool down, huge crits and an escape to stealth ready. I can kill other scoundrels with relative ease as a BH, but Joom terrorizes the Imperial side of the server for the couple hours straight he seems to queue most days. I made a Scoundrel alt and got him to 35 so far to better understand how he does it, but I have no idea. He's vanished while I'm Unloading into his back and once when I DfA'd his general area. Is it even possible to stealth out of those situations? I can't o.o

 

He's probably popping Dodge before he vanishes.

[Xaearth]

There is no reason to run out of upper hand. You can get it extremely fast w/ SRMP on yourself +1 teammate. Also, if you are in trouble, it probably means there are enemies around you, just b/tch slap on of them and get your instant UH proc. And the defensive cool down is Defense Screen, it does a pretty good job, especially if you pair w/ a defensive relic cooldown.

 

Even throwing out the RNG element of the proc, I don't know if I would consider once every 6 seconds "extremely fast" in a PvP situation.

 

As far as using Shiv/Blaster Whip, that only works if you're being attacked by a melee. It completely ignores the possibility of being attacked by ranged or healing someone other than yourself.

[Coldin]

As far as using Shiv/Blaster Whip, that only works if you're being attacked by a melee. It completely ignores the possibility of being attacked by ranged or healing someone other than yourself.

 

Also the fact that Blaster Whip is on it's own cooldown too.

[vartius]

That's really what I got out of it too. If we're supposed to be a healer killer, why can't we kill a healer 1v1?

 

Right now a good healer rocking medpacs shouldn't lose to anyone in a 1v1. I know I don't even come close to losing 1v1 quickly. No class has enough burst to stop a stun & run heal up. I am close with my DPS vanguard but not enough stuns to counter someone popping trinket/trading stuns for healing up.

 

There are only 8 AC's so being at the bottom of the totem pole for relatively balanced classes isn't the end of the world because we have multiple roles. I think that people are over-estimating greatly the damage potential of other classes. Freighter fly-by hits like a truck in PvE and you can re-stealth after its cast.

Edited March 14, 2012 by vartius

[DunsparrowSolo]

Right now a good healer rocking medpacs shouldn't lose to anyone in a 1v1. I know I don't even come close to losing 1v1 quickly. No class has enough burst to stop a stun & run heal up. I am close with my DPS vanguard but not enough stuns to counter someone popping trinket/trading stuns for healing up.

 

There are only 8 AC's so being at the bottom of the totem pole for relatively balanced classes isn't the end of the world because we have multiple roles. I think that people are over-estimating greatly the damage potential of other classes. Freighter fly-by hits like a truck in PvE and you can re-stealth after its cast.

 

The problem is that Sawbones is the only spec that is even remotely playable now. Scrapper was destroyed in this patch and Dirty Fighting is just as terrible as ever.

[Trevux]

im rolling same gear same player skill people right now... So much energy don't know how to spend it... maybe give yourself some time to adjust.

[GrinningBulldog]

To sum it up, I love you all!

[VertisReaper]

scoundrels. worster than ever. worst tank, healer, dps, utility, looks, garabage Edited April 12, 2012 by VertisReaper