Why even make a Jedi?

[OldVengeance]

Uh,I think a dark Jedi would have just killed Darth Vader.

[Hxxr]

My newly born Jedi alt, going by the name H'tisami (no one has yet discovered my as a spy though), is often choosing dark options in conversations because I don't want them displayed.

 

A lot of dark options are the one you'd actually choose.

On Coruscant I just recently got 100 dark points for attacking a traitor to the republic (who's a Sith lord) who murdered his former scientist team in cold blood and stole a weapon of mass destruction that he's about to activate. Instead of just standing there talking trash and waiting for his first move.

[DalrisThane]

Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane

[Shaddaq]

Vader was a special case. Once you've let the dark side take hold, there is no coming back. There is no redemption. This is why the jedi are so strict.

 

Hello,

 

I am hardly a lore expert, but it seems to me this light side/dark side business is largely propaganda.

 

The Jedi will tell you that once you cavort with the dark side, it will forever shape your destiny. The Sith say that there is no resisting the Dark Side. It is more powerful, and you cannot escape it.

 

These are propaganda lines, not truth. Truth is based on evidence, not political statements. The evidence shows that a person can make a brief dark side decision and come back from it. (Luke gives in to a dark side impulse briefly in his encounter with the Emperor.) The evidence also shows that you can wallow in the Dark Side for decades and come back from it. (As Vader did.)

 

The Jedi and the Sith may do more harm to the galaxy with their absolutist propaganda than the Light and Dark sides themselves have ever done. Teaching immutability may make people feel 'locked in' when they don't have to be. If these groups didn't deal in absolutes they might miraculously discover a happy middle ground.

 

Imagine if a Jedi made a bad decision and the order said, "We all make mistakes sometimes. It doesn't define who you are. You can always choose to do better."

 

Or if two people were in love and they said, "Love can cloud judgement, but it's not inherently evil. Please let us counsel you during your relationship and help you deal with the feelings you feel, and teach you to maintain balance throughout." Instead of forcibly separating lovers and treating them like they've committed a criminal infraction. If the Jedi were less extreme, they wouldn't have to send trainees to spy on one another. Their students would feel free to be honest with them.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Shaddaq

[OldVengeance]

The Jedi have a artifact specifically intended to record Jedi Masters who fell to the darkside and were redeemed.

[Urushira]

Hello,

 

I am hardly a lore expert, but it seems to me this light side/dark side business is largely propaganda.

 

The Jedi will tell you that once you cavort with the dark side, it will forever shape your destiny. The Sith say that there is no resisting the Dark Side. It is more powerful, and you cannot escape it.

 

These are propaganda lines, not truth. Truth is based on evidence, not political statements. The evidence shows that a person can make a brief dark side decision and come back from it. (Luke gives in to a dark side impulse briefly in his encounter with the Emperor.) The evidence also shows that you can wallow in the Dark Side for decades and come back from it. (As Vader did.)

 

The Jedi and the Sith may do more harm to the galaxy with their absolutist propaganda than the Light and Dark sides themselves have ever done. Teaching immutability may make people feel 'locked in' when they don't have to be. If these groups didn't deal in absolutes they might miraculously discover a happy middle ground.

 

Imagine if a Jedi made a bad decision and the order said, "We all make mistakes sometimes. It doesn't define who you are. You can always choose to do better."

 

Or if two people were in love and they said, "Love can cloud judgement, but it's not inherently evil. Please let us counsel you during your relationship and help you deal with the feelings you feel, and teach you to maintain balance throughout." Instead of forcibly separating lovers and treating them like they've committed a criminal infraction. If the Jedi were less extreme, they wouldn't have to send trainees to spy on one another. Their students would feel free to be honest with them.

 

I would disagree with calling it propaganda. But then, neither would i carry it to its extreme of saying that once youve bitten an apple you will eat only apples as some of the remarks seem to elude too. The baser truth is, once you do something, not only it, but your perceptions and emotions surrounding it ( not to mention your memories of the event ) become a part of you. They change you: forever. Once a bullet has left the barrel of a gun, there is no calling it back. No stopping it. it will continue onward until it reaches its target. Peopleare the same. a lie thats spoken, a murder performed: It doesnt matter. From that point onward, the person becomes irrevocably changed. The act will remain with you internally, forever. You cease to be who you were, and grow into something else. We each change like this every day. Perhaps not too such extremes, but, the promise broken, the lie told, the extras goodie in a pocket as you walk out of a store. These things change you. They stay with you. Therefore, from the moment you act upon an idea, the you that you were before you acted is gone, and you have become someone else. Its not propaganda. Its basic psychology: Basic truth.

 

Therefore, once you have gone to the darkside, your there. your stuck. You can never go back to what was. Not even if you can forgive yourself. If you dont wish to believe me, go speak with an old combat veteran. Most likely, if he doesnt back hand you, he'll figure your an idiot too ignorant to understand, but if you can get him to open up, you'll see but unless you actually go there, you will never understand.

 

Therefore, the Jedi are correct, and in wishing too save a person from such terrible blunders ( and they can be quite terrible )they set up their rules, but children are born blank boring and curious, and will go where they want and do whatever fancies their whims. Even in real life, its a sad thing to see a soul turn dark. How much moreso in an over the top exagerated universe such as that in star wars??

[Rastadrian]

Aaaaaaw !

 

I will only use one quote "It depends on your point of view" ...

 

Jedi do feel emotions , do feel passions , they are after all part of the Living force .

 

But it's easy to get tempted by the power of emotion , that's why Luke decided to go back to the "Bipolar Force" after the events of the Kilik crisis.

 

How could you accept death of your loved one if you had the power of the force?

No one would.

Take the "lovers" quest on Tythoon , imagine they became jedi knights will still beeing lovers and went to war.

Put some tragic event involving the death of one of them (which is very likely to happen in a war).

Kill the guy = the girl becomes crazy , capable of genocide against who ever did this , making her easly manipulable , she could become a sith faster then you could think.

Kill the girl = the guy becomes depressed , follows the same path.

 

Worse imagine a jedi who has childrens and during the war they get killed by sith , what do you think is going to happen ?

The jedis do love but they musn't get attached or they will fall at one point and even a "weak-jedi" can wraith havoc.

 

 

 

Now you might think i'm a old-way jedi bt i'm not , i see emotions much like Revan does , i accept them go along but i never let them control me , even if sometimes a loved one get hurt , there's no death only the force.

 

 

 

Don't take the jedi code too seriously , it's open to interpretation.

 

 

And the jedis in this game are not "jerks" , most of them helps everyone they come across , take for example Orgus Din , he's a freaking hero !

Many jedis are like him.

 

 

About my JK , well see it as a Revan/Obi-wan/Quinlan Vos jedi , Cocky and funny , yet always fighting for the "good" (always obey to the republic =/= good , they also build Super-weapons which is a similiraty they share with "Empire" ) , i have a romance with Kira and "proud" of it and if the jedi council is not happy with it , then i'll just ask about Satele ancestors and tell them to go search for a new "hero" , i never kill "innocents" nor do i "murder" people .

 

For example when i come across the possiblity to destroy empire vessels , i don't , not all imperials are monsters nor all republicans are heroes....

[Urushira]

 

How could you accept death of your loved one if you had the power of the force?

No one would.

 

Of course they would. Death is as much a part of living as breath and babies. Its inevitable. If someone truly does have the force with them, they understand this. Life is a gift. It comes to us unbidden, without reason, rational or logic. Each moment we live reinforces just how much of a gift it is, and the loss of a loved one reinforces it the most. What part of dieing effects you the most?? That they left you behind?? Perhaps its because something has been taken away from you.. It hurts. It will always hurt, and it never goes away.

Its ok to feel passionate about your loved ones and their loss. Where the jedi differ is in knowing to not act directly on those passions. To understand that those passions are completely self centered. At least, they certainly dont have any connection with what the person who died is feeling..

 

A couple years back, I stood next to my sisters bed and bid her farewell. The real death watch. It was the hardest moment of my existence. But it was her time. It in its own way, was her wish. She was tired. She'd seen more than she could take. She wanted to go ( home? ). It still hurts like hell because I miss her. But perhaps shes in a better place. Perhaps I've grown. I know my world has changed.. If i do not think of myself, but rather think of her, then i can accept her passing. Its only when i think of myself that i run into problems.

[Heinken]

Well, I'm no stuck-up nancy boy (don't get me wrong here, I suppose you guys caught my drift here), yet I can say I can relate and feel attached to my Jedi Knight. Indeed the "I'm a boring person" answers tend to stand out, but they aren't absolute. You see, for example, I have a romance with Kira, decided not to tell about Leesha's and usually agree with Doc when he says we should go out and have some fun. .. Exactly as I think it should be. I have a few dark side points, and no biggies there. At the start, some light-side decisions made me cringe and facepalm, but then I came to realize that, no matter what I choose, it'll end as it should - "So why care?" - I told myself. Now I just pick whatever floats my boat, and I grow more excited about being a Jedi each day Edited February 11, 2012 by Heinken

[Kelticfury]

I don't see how what I said makes me a bad roleplayer. I need to be able to relate to my character to enjoy the game otherwise I might as well just be watching a bad movie. If I can't understand my characters decisions how can they

 

I totally get you. Why would I RP "The Notebook" when i can RP "Bunraku".

[Quething]

His powers come from magic, not technology (ignore the movie for this part). He is so pure, so boy scout, that no-one but him and like 5 others in all of creation can lift his hammer (Captain America, Beta Ray Bill, and I forget the other 3). I assume Superman could too, if he was in the same universe.

 

Superman cannot. Wonder Woman can.

 

(Sorry. DC nerd moment over. We now return you to your regularly scheduled Star Wars debate.)

[Meastro]

Your anger has clouded your choice of opinion young padawan.

[Shaddaq]

I would disagree with calling it propaganda. But then, neither would i carry it to its extreme of saying that once youve bitten an apple you will eat only apples as some of the remarks seem to elude too. The baser truth is, once you do something, not only it, but your perceptions and emotions surrounding it ( not to mention your memories of the event ) become a part of you. They change you: forever. Once a bullet has left the barrel of a gun, there is no calling it back. No stopping it. it will continue onward until it reaches its target. Peopleare the same. a lie thats spoken, a murder performed: It doesnt matter. From that point onward, the person becomes irrevocably changed. The act will remain with you internally, forever. You cease to be who you were, and grow into something else. We each change like this every day. Perhaps not too such extremes, but, the promise broken, the lie told, the extras goodie in a pocket as you walk out of a store. These things change you. They stay with you. Therefore, from the moment you act upon an idea, the you that you were before you acted is gone, and you have become someone else. Its not propaganda. Its basic psychology: Basic truth.

 

Therefore, once you have gone to the darkside, your there. your stuck. You can never go back to what was. Not even if you can forgive yourself. If you dont wish to believe me, go speak with an old combat veteran. Most likely, if he doesnt back hand you, he'll figure your an idiot too ignorant to understand, but if you can get him to open up, you'll see but unless you actually go there, you will never understand.

 

Therefore, the Jedi are correct, and in wishing too save a person from such terrible blunders ( and they can be quite terrible )they set up their rules, but children are born blank boring and curious, and will go where they want and do whatever fancies their whims. Even in real life, its a sad thing to see a soul turn dark. How much moreso in an over the top exagerated universe such as that in star wars??

 

 

Hello,

 

Barring a bizarre detour into the territory of some violent combat veterans (I guess the ones I know are better behaved than the ones you know) what you are describing is not good versus evil, but rather innocence lost.

 

The Jedi order seems very concerned with keeping their people as blank, innocent children, and their rigid rules make their membership ill prepared for the realities of life- realities the Jedi will have to face once they leave the walls of their temple and move through the many passages of life.

 

Their philosophy is that each Jedi should become a fortress unto himself, separated from the 'darkness' in the world he is tasked to protect. But fortresses inevitably crumble, and because the Jedi focus on removing oneself from temptation rather than dealing with it, they are left utterly powerless when their walls come tumbling down.

 

The entire Jedi philosophy is a failure of extremes. There may be good reason why the old Jedi yearned for a chosen one who might bring balance to the force. Their philosophy was not in balance, and neither were the Jedi. Peace can not be found in secluding yourself from yourself, or yourself from the horrors of the world. It is only possible to find peace by making peace.

 

This is why the Jedi fail. Every act has a consequence, but that isn't a thing to be feared for its own sake. It is a part of learning and growth. The Jedi philosophy has no answer for those who 'sin.' They are considered tainted, and no one in the order seems to be deeply concerned with helping people cope with the inevitability of not achieving a 'perfection' that only exists as a philosophical extreme.

[Dyvid]

Jedi believe they should use their abilities for justice and protection

Sith believe they should use their abilities to rule and govern

 

Of course Jedi have emotion but they don't give into them. Watch Ep I and see Obi-wan reaction when his master is killed then watch regain his composure without given into hate and vengence. This is the key point of the movies, Anakin couldn't control his darker feeling and in the end it destroyed him.

 

Really though is game is about more than just playing one class. I've playe IA to 50 and now I'm playing JK to 50. Don't limit yourself to just one character, branch out and explore the entire story of SWTOR.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Dyvid

[JusticeLord]

It's funny that you ask this question because I have the same thoughts about why people would want to be a Sith. I can easily relate to my character and what he stands for, I could never play a Sith - they're self-important tools that I can't relate to whatsoever. I don't feel like I'm stuck with light or dark choices, I choose the lightside choices because they're always what I would choose anyways, what SW:TOR has made the Jedi is far from a mockery and it's not fair for you to say that as a fact just because that's your opinion. Why roll a Jedi? Because they stand for what's right whereas Sith only care about themselves and power.

[JusticeLord]

You don't even have to get past the starter planet to see clear illustrations of these points.

 

Arrogance: One of the jedi council (I forget his name) who is in the cutscenes is an arrogant arse and I took an immediate dislike to him.

 

Deceit: Being asked to spy and turn in fellow students for falling in love.

 

Hypocracy: Claiming to be all about the good when they are really deceitful and arrogant jerks.

 

The Jedi are deceitful and arrogant jerks? I couldn't disagree more, you're thinking of the Empire.

[Jorander]

For a moment, I would like to speak briefly about The Jedi in general and why I feel that playing a Jedi in the game is for the most part, pointless.

 

Growing up as a kid and watching Star Wars, I always had fantasies of being a Jedi, I'm sure you all did at some point. However, I feel that the way Jedi are represented now is a complete mockery.

 

Sacrificing your emotions and all normal responsibilities and instinct is like taking a needle and lobotomizing yourself, taking away all aspects of a person that makes them, them. If emotion does indeed "blind us", then how on Earth were these people ever motivated to establish the order?

 

Obviously, you wanted something done, you wanted to protect the galaxy. It is that want and drive, that alone is part of an emotion. So does that make the Jedi hypocrites? Possibly.

 

Speaking in actuality, I find the Jedi Knight and Jedi Consular storylines and characters to be completely unrelatable and boring. I do not feel any emotional attachment to my character while playing them and I feel like I have as much emotion as a Protocol Droid.

 

The Sith have their alternative beliefs, but they also carry with them, themselves. They keep their emotions, they keep their love, hatred, whatever. They get to keep their emotions and they have the drive to see something done. So my question is, why even play as a Jedi?

 

Why be someone that is hard to relate to, when you can be a Sith Warrior and go lightside without the hazards or limitations of a guideline? Yes, normally light side options are looked down by Sith players, but I don't think of Jedi or Sith as stereotypes, I just think of them as different perspectives.

 

Take for example, Flags of our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima, both movies directed by Clint Eastwood. I hated Flags of our Fathers because it told a very sappy and illiterate story, I didn't feel sorry for these people that had 15 minutes of fame. I also felt as though that the American side had less sympathy and were blinded by their orders and duty as "soldiers". Letters from Iwo Jima on the other hand, while the Japanese are considered as enemies in our eyes, through their eyes they are only serving their country and doing what they think is right. They have honor, respect and most of all culture.

 

So all in all, my question to you all is, why did you choose to create a Jedi Knight or Consular? What are you reasons? Is it because you feel that picking the good side is just and a normality, or is your childhood love of the original trilogy or for the ten of you out there the prequel trilogy, just?

 

Classic argument for why people don't like Jedi. Rather than re-write my debunk of this argument, I will just ask people to use the search function. God knows I re-write it often enough for it to be simple to find. That said, let me explain why I made both Jedi and Sith characters.

 

It is as simple as the opportunity to personally explore more secrets of the Force, to immerse myself in those aspects of the setting as a character, instead of as an observer.

[stinkydoggy]

For a moment, I would like to speak briefly about The Jedi in general and why I feel that playing a Jedi in the game is for the most part, pointless.

 

Growing up as a kid and watching Star Wars, I always had fantasies of being a Jedi, I'm sure you all did at some point. However, I feel that the way Jedi are represented now is a complete mockery.

 

Sacrificing your emotions and all normal responsibilities and instinct is like taking a needle and lobotomizing yourself, taking away all aspects of a person that makes them, them. If emotion does indeed "blind us", then how on Earth were these people ever motivated to establish the order?

 

Obviously, you wanted something done, you wanted to protect the galaxy. It is that want and drive, that alone is part of an emotion. So does that make the Jedi hypocrites? Possibly.

 

Speaking in actuality, I find the Jedi Knight and Jedi Consular storylines and characters to be completely unrelatable and boring. I do not feel any emotional attachment to my character while playing them and I feel like I have as much emotion as a Protocol Droid.

 

The Sith have their alternative beliefs, but they also carry with them, themselves. They keep their emotions, they keep their love, hatred, whatever. They get to keep their emotions and they have the drive to see something done. So my question is, why even play as a Jedi?

 

Why be someone that is hard to relate to, when you can be a Sith Warrior and go lightside without the hazards or limitations of a guideline? Yes, normally light side options are looked down by Sith players, but I don't think of Jedi or Sith as stereotypes, I just think of them as different perspectives.

 

Take for example, Flags of our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima, both movies directed by Clint Eastwood. I hated Flags of our Fathers because it told a very sappy and illiterate story, I didn't feel sorry for these people that had 15 minutes of fame. I also felt as though that the American side had less sympathy and were blinded by their orders and duty as "soldiers". Letters from Iwo Jima on the other hand, while the Japanese are considered as enemies in our eyes, through their eyes they are only serving their country and doing what they think is right. They have honor, respect and most of all culture.

 

So all in all, my question to you all is, why did you choose to create a Jedi Knight or Consular? What are you reasons? Is it because you feel that picking the good side is just and a normality, or is your childhood love of the original trilogy or for the ten of you out there the prequel trilogy, just?

 

What gets me about guys like this is that because they don't like it or they can't relate to it they see it as pointless, stupid and that it should be removed because they don't like it. You have to realize that not everyone thinks as you do or likes what you like so just play your own style and let others play theirs. Stop letting your real life issues get in the way of having fun and letting others have fun in a video game. Because for all the rants and rage it is just that, a video game. Sheesh people lighten up. You want to play a Sith, play a Sith. Want to be a Jedi then be a Jedi but good grief just let it go already.

[JadeBranch]

Although the people in this thread aren't touching on it much, I am going to point at the OP's jab at the jedi player characters. I got to agree, unless you are going dark side, the Jedi lines are all boring and snooze festy. Their lines are bland and the delivery of them are even more bland.

[JusticeLord]

Although the people in this thread aren't touching on it much, I am going to point at the OP's jab at the jedi player characters. I got to agree, unless you are going dark side, the Jedi lines are all boring and snooze festy. Their lines are bland and the delivery of them are even more bland.

 

Just because you find them bland doesn't mean they are bland. I honestly find the Sith lines to be bland (or worse), but that's only my opinion - stating your opinions like they are fact doesn't add to the thread.

[Lashknife]

Our guild has been (and continue to do so) RP'ing 'average' Jedi since 2008. Comparatively, we all have a strong dislike for Bioware's Jedi stories. If all you have to go by are the stories created by Bioware, then I can see how it's not very entertaining.

[Ticara]

Just because you find them bland doesn't mean they are bland. I honestly find the Sith lines to be bland (or worse), but that's only my opinion - stating your opinions like they are fact doesn't add to the thread.

 

 

I don't know about the female Jedi characters, but the male Knight and Consular voices sound so very bland, it isn't even funny. Especially the Consular's.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Ticara

[tobarstep]

Or my favorite dark/light choice so far, from the end of act-1 for the Imperial Agent (big spoiler, don't read if you wanna keep it a surprise!):

 

Darth Jadus has given you the choice of whether or not to turn on/deactivate the orbital bombardment weapons. If you take the time to deactivate them (light side), he'll escape, and has threatened to kill hundreds of thousands of people. If you activate the weapons (dark side) it will kill tens of thousands, but you'll have the chance to stop him here and now.

 

I was soooo torn on this one. I was talking to my bf at the time online and kind of writing a little scene about it. My hardened, pragmatic, ruthless agent actually had tears in her eyes when she activated the weapons, whispered "I'm sorry" under her breath, and ran to try and stop Jadus. Hearing the transmissions of places under attack over the speakers while she was running about almost made me cry in RL a bit.

 

I'd call that a pretty clear-cut moral choice, or LS/DS choice. On the one hand, you've got a guy who's threatening to kill multitudes if he gets away. There's always a chance you can stop him later, and even if he goes through with it, you didn't actually kill the multitudes nor did you do anything to force him to. Your other choice is a guaranteed slaughter of slightly less multitudes. Only this time it was an active choice and by your own hand. The line between good and bad doesn't get much more distinct than that.

[JusticeLord]

I don't know about the female Jedi characters, but the male Knight and Consular voices sound so very bland, it isn't even funny. Especially the Consular's.

 

I love the male consular's voice. It's my personal favorite from all the voices in the game. I don't like the sith voices, but again this doesn't help anything get across - that's only YOUR opinion.

Edited February 25, 2012 by JusticeLord

[JediElf]

Hello,

 

Barring a bizarre detour into the territory of some violent combat veterans (I guess the ones I know are better behaved than the ones you know) what you are describing is not good versus evil, but rather innocence lost.

 

The Jedi order seems very concerned with keeping their people as blank, innocent children, and their rigid rules make their membership ill prepared for the realities of life- realities the Jedi will have to face once they leave the walls of their temple and move through the many passages of life.

 

Their philosophy is that each Jedi should become a fortress unto himself, separated from the 'darkness' in the world he is tasked to protect. But fortresses inevitably crumble, and because the Jedi focus on removing oneself from temptation rather than dealing with it, they are left utterly powerless when their walls come tumbling down.

 

The entire Jedi philosophy is a failure of extremes. There may be good reason why the old Jedi yearned for a chosen one who might bring balance to the force. Their philosophy was not in balance, and neither were the Jedi. Peace can not be found in secluding yourself from yourself, or yourself from the horrors of the world. It is only possible to find peace by making peace.

 

This is why the Jedi fail. Every act has a consequence, but that isn't a thing to be feared for its own sake. It is a part of learning and growth. The Jedi philosophy has no answer for those who 'sin.' They are considered tainted, and no one in the order seems to be deeply concerned with helping people cope with the inevitability of not achieving a 'perfection' that only exists as a philosophical extreme.

 

 

This! 100% this in a nutshell.

 

I've been avoiding rolling either of the Jedi classes for those very reasons, I'll probably rack up dark side points to the maximum, because they will be the decisions that make the most sense.

 

Why can't we have the choice to be a Grey Jedi? I'd love to see that.