The Empire/Republic Imbalance - Why Did *You* Choose Your Faction?

[Branclor]

Bounty Hunters, Mandalorians. Nuff said^^

[well]

Warning! This is going to be a little TL/DR.

 

So, when I first started playing I rolled Republic. I thought that this game would follow the usual MMO pattern - roll good guys if you want to pve, roll bad guys if you want to pvp (and wait in long queues to do it).

 

I was amazed to find that on my server (one of the biggest PvE) this was not the case - both PvE'ers and PvP'ers were rolling and rerolling on Empire. I was surprised, but after a while I found myself doing the same.

 

Why?

 

Well, here are a few thoughts. Keep in mind that most of this is going to be rather subjective.

 

1) Perception.

 

From the start there has been a strong perception that the Empire side is just better - and for a long time it was correct. Skill differences and mirror imbalances made Empire the smart choice for min/maxers. And where the min/maxers go, others follow - and where the majority goes, well, most people are included.

 

2) Characters

 

<Note, this may contain mild spoilers. Will tag biggies, but it's going to be a mess if I tag all of them, so if you are worried skip ahead to 3 please).

 

I started as a Jedi Shadow, looking forward to a campaign of diplomacy, 'good' assasinations, spying and infiltration. What I got was a bland story designed for a female healer. I slogged though. I then rolled a Trooper, got to Tatooine and got bored. I then rolled Jedi Knight and enjoyed it a little more, until I hit mid coruscant (see later).

 

I then proceeded to go Empire and rolled a Juggernaut, an Inquisitor and a Bounty Hunter, two of which were *amazing* in comparison and one was just better.

 

One of the big problems for me had to do with the Dark/Light choices in this game. To be pure Dark as a Jedi I needed to be a swaggering bully, an absolute moron and a coward. To be pure Light (which I would expect would be the majority here), I needed to be bipolar.

 

For example -

early on in my Shadow's campaign I was given a choice between ratting out two Jedi lovers or letting them go. Feeling sorry for them, I kept their secret - and was given dark side points.

 

 

So, a little later,

I was given an option whether or not to rat out another jedi student for cheating in a test. I chose to do so....and got dark side points. Ahahahaha!!!!!!111

 

 

On the other hand, my Sith Warrior and Bounty hunter were played pure Light/Dark respectively, which felt not only natural at both sides of the spectrum but was generally believeable and enjoyable.

 

As a Jedi, playing naturally ended up as a neutral 'grey' which is all well and good, but since the Neutral perks/gear do not exist this was rather a pain in the posterior.

 

2.5) Immersion

 

This leads to big immersion issues regarding my character. I am not a roleplayer, but in a game like this I do like to at least become attached to my avatar.

 

On my Jedi, I found myself choosing the 'correct' answer to boost my alignment score.

On my Sith, I found myself playing the class naturally.

 

Eventually a put it to a test. I took my Shadow and my Sith Warrior and tried to (as a wonderful reviewer of the Star Wars films put it) "tell myself what I knew about them without talking about their powers, appearance or job".

 

My Shadow, at level 50.

- He is a Jedi.

- He is some kind of spy or infiltrator, even though he spends a lot of his time doing a healer job. For some reason.

- He...is a bad Jedi (since he took a romance option).

And there I fell short.

 

My Warrior, at level 30.

- He is a gifted pupil who had a hard life before graduating as a Sith.

- He has a something of a death wish and dislikes his master intently, often goading him.

- He has a vicious temper when riled, but for the most part is honorable and does not kill unless he has to.

- He despises bootlickers, cowards and sadists.

- He has a soft spot for the weak, especially when they try to stand up for themselves.

- He also has a soft spot for Vette.

 

I could keep going. Why is it that my Sith, from playing him naturally, feels much 'realer' and human? And why is it that I could play him totally the opposite alignment and *still* have him feel real? Also - see 6)

 

3) The Ilum Fiasco.

 

Others have put it well enough. A big problem occurred whereby Empire pvpers were able to gain a big gear advantage over Republic players on several servers, leading to a snowball effect as they won more games, causing more players to cross over.

4) Coruscant.

 

I don't know if I am alone in this one, but the 10-25 stretch on both sides was horrible. Lots of fluff, waaaay to much walking around. However, while the Empire's choice (Kaas) was bland and boring, Coruscant was abysmal. It was lame. It was tedious. It was ugly. It was way too big. Missions were grindy as hell. It was a rabbit warren. I have never been so relieved to get off a planet (included Taris and Nar Shaddaa).

 

5) Companions.

 

Again, subjective to me, but on my three classes from each side the NPCs were much more interesting to me - in particular the *most* important companion - your first one (since Bioware thought it would be smart to stick you with one companion for your first 25 hours).

 

On Empire, Vette was a cute, sassy Robin to the brooding Batman of my Juggernaut. Mako was a touch annoying...but having a healer as my first class was just AWESOME and her storyline got *very* interesting down the line. Khem Val was ghastly, but at least funny from time to time (and Ashara...phwoar).

 

On the other hand, Qyckymart (the big lizard guy, whatever the hell his name was) was boring and dumb. Kira was cute but nowhere near as interesting as Vette. The cat guy on my trooper (even forgot his name) was...flatline in terms of how much impression he made on me.

 

Our characters develop alongside our companions in RPGs, and when they aren't interesting it's much harder to 'get into' things.

 

6) Huttball.

 

This was a great idea in theory. Long pvp queues due to faction imbalance? Well, go and break some skulls in a same faction BG.

 

The only problem is that on most imbalanced servers in other games, queue times at least help the situation to self correct to a degree (as once they get to a certain length some people cross over to avoid them).

 

Now there is no reason *not* to play Empire.

 

 

Some solutions:

 

I personally think the situation has gone beyond the point where it will resolve itself naturally. There needs to be some kind of intervention and incentive for playing Republic. I don't want to see the game imbalanced, but some kind of reward for playing the underdog faction would be nice.

 

For example: A % buff to Commendation/gear drops, PvP token gains, xp gains and cash drops on the underpopulated side that scales according to the degree of imbalance could help matters.

 

Honestly, I can't think of anything better.

 

TL/DR

 

Why did you choose the faction you did? What can be done to equalize the numbers of players on Empire/Republic? Is this something that Bioware should concern themselves with?

 

I chose it because it is what I wanted to play.I have had 3 chrs on empire side but deleted 2.Too boring.I do like the SI chr for rpg aspect.My main chr is smuggler.I have 8 chrs from 46-19.Getting to 50 is no big deal.I will just finish off my next chr.Rinse and repeat.As far as companions.Khem Lite is boring.So is Fess.Vette was ok but to chatty.She did have some good lines but still meh.The IA I just can't get into.Tried during Beta and again with early access.He puts me to sleep.I like my Smugs,Jedi and troopers.I have fun with them.At least when the skills work.How others see the game is their bushiness not mine.People say the Empire is drawing the most folks.Not by much on my server.Have chrs on both sides you can see how it measures up to a certain degree.

[RobNightfall]

I chose the Republic because my guild did, and they chose it because we would be the underdogs, which is usually more fun in PvP. Due to the poor PvP design this is not as good an idea as it should be. Also, I played an inquisitor for a couple of hours today just to see and wow, what a difference. The story is better, the outfits looks better, and the powers look so much cooler. I won't stop playing with my guild or make my main a sith, but the faction imbalance is pretty easily explained in all of 7 levels of play experience.

[Golarz]

I choose Empire after all those videos with advanced class progresion. Republic toons just looked so infantaile and boreing. Jedis always in almost the same robes.

And during the beta I played sith assasin and I just loved the story.

Then I tried some republic toons and the story was boring and without inner depth.

Besides what is cooler, throwing pebles or shooting lightning out of Your hand ?

[Mephane]

My initial plans had been to play a Jedi Shadow, but after trying out this and a couple of other classes in the late beta weekends, I came along the Bounty Hunter and found it to be more fun, both story-wise and in terms of their class mechanics and style. As a faction I would have preferred Republic, but in the end my own character and their class, skills, styles, story etc. matters more than faction, so I ended up Empire after all.

[fyrephly]

I'll change factions when Empire gets outnumbered. Edited February 7, 2012 by fyrephly

[Jeffleigh]

We all like reading different books

 

I can imagine that people are going to like (or not like) a lot of different things in SWTOR

 

When I first started playing SWTOR, it really seemed like an interactive book

 

Currently I have 6 characters 16 to 37 on the Republic side and one at level 15 on the Empire. I think, over time, I want to see all the content the developers have created

 

I am a big science fiction reader, and I am really loving all the story lines and developing trades, so I find a lot to do in the game

 

I am in a large and social guild - but like many of you I probably don't want to get stuck in "end game" raid and grind again in a hurry

 

To me the faction has never been an issue - more it's what side is enjoyable to play

 

And that can vary to some extent with the server and people you are with

[Bustha]

Im playing a Sith sorc (healer), i started out trying the consular healer in the beta but for me it was easy.

 

Jedi consular is throwing pebbles at foes while a sith sorc channels purple lightning.

 

Soo all in all its all about the looks, Consulars have god awful graphics in comparison to me.

[Soobaa]

I play republic because I always really enjoyed playing Alliance in WoW. Sounds stupid, but I just didn't know what to choose and I thought, 'well republic is more alliance like so let's just choose that'.

[SentinelBorg]

I'm already evil in real life, so I play a lightsided Jedi in the game for a change.

[Draczeq]

Rolled Republic coz of guild, got few Empire chars to enjoy good story ... but you are absolutly right ...

 

Jedi Consular - is definetly going for worst and mosr boring story in history, attrocious companions except for Nadia which you get for few last planets and is dps only? really Bioware? Not to mention that whole first act, doesnt even make sense ... If you use shielding you weaken yourself ... ok sounds cool, so I just kill everyone so Im strong for the final showdown ... errr ... wrong, doesnt matter either way you are equally strong, not to mention that no one even notice all the dead jedis (yea, you had to kill everyone, even if you could save them ... Satele approves! huh?)

 

Trooper - Well elite squad, sounds cool, hunting for traitors not bad either, Jennifer Hale dabbing superb and well Elara is not that bad ... chipmunk suxx tho, and as romance? you kidding right?

 

from what I heard, Knight got most the love and Smuglers story isnt as bad as Conslars, but except for Trooper all other Republic armors are bland and ugly as hell

 

On the other hand Empire:

 

Bounty Hunter - FemBH is voiced by Grey DeLisle *yay*, you get cute Mako (HEALER!) as first companion (even tho she is a bit whiny), you get Blizz!!! ***** jawa with rocket launcher!!!*, you are pretty ****** and your armors looks cool ... story is cool too ...

 

Imperial Agent - BEST story in the game ... if you havent played it, go for it ... awesome armor, he uses KNIFE!! to kill everyone and everything *wooot* ... the only thing that really suxx on Agent are companions ... same crap as Jack, that Joiner creep, the wanna be HK robot (really terrible) and completly bland human chick i didnt even notice I have on team ... the only interesting one was the werewolf doctor, but i didnt have use for him ...

 

and I can continue ... sum ... Empire is cool, with superb story, nice armors and all the love ... Republic is generic snoozefest with nothing remarkable ...

[Suzina]

I chose Empire because back in SWG, the Empire mentality of order and discipline really spoke to me and my roleplay.

[Comfterbilly]

I love the Sith and hate the Jedi. I tried a Jedi until level 4 and the stuff they wanted us to do to get light side points made me want to barf.

 

I assume if I'd have played Republic until level 50 they would have had me saving whales and planting trees and crap.

 

The light side was actually tolerable in KOTOR, but the light side sucks now. The writers need to figure out how to make a 'good guy' without making it a total *****.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Honestly I don't think there really was a Sith code until this game came out - it was like a philosophy waiting for a people, now it can't be stopped . For me being a Sith is a rejection of this sorry version of the Republic, and there is nothing I like more than smashing a Jedi to bits.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Comfterbilly

[Robert_Guiscard]

Empire.

 

I don't care about PvP or what's cool or uber leet or whatever - I've just always favored the dark side - I played dark side characters in KOTOR I and II, a renegade in ME, evil guys in Fallout, hell, I even play an evil elf fighter/wizard in tabletop D&D (which is hilarious, because my wife plays the exact OPPOSITE characters - nauseatingly good).

 

I have no interest in saving the weak, helpless and irritating - I'd rather curbstomp them. But, since one cannot do that IRL without severe consequences...well, that's one reason we have RPGs for - to unleash our inner psychopath with no fear of reprisal where it matters - real life.

 

That being said, I love the Sith Warrior storyline - I can play a disciplined but murderous incarnation of force choking, double wielding death. I have a BH as well, which I enjoy playing, but the story line is definitely a lot more "meh".

[Ryndaris]

I planned to play a Sage from the moment I saw the game was being developed (I usually pick mage archetypes in RPGs). However, once I got in a weekend beta and tried out the consular (got it to level 20) it literally killed my interest in this game. The class (the story, the pebbles) and the planets (Tython, Coruscant & Taris) are so terrible I just couldn't bring myself to play anymore.

 

Luckily I tried a pureblood inquisitor as an alternative just before the beta ended... and holy ****, what a difference that made... I loved how the story pulled me in from the very start, Korriban was an awesome planet with all the Acolytes competing against each other, etc. The choices I had to make DID NOT MAKE ME FEEL BAD AFTERWARDS. Whether I picked light or dark, it always felt awesome. And then... Dromund Kaas, such an amazing place. As much as I love Belsavis/Hoth the sith capital just feels like home, whereas Coruscant felt like some kind of annoying joke.

 

Right now I have a 50 light sided Sorc, a 47 dark sided marauder and several post-30 alts of all kinds of alignments and I've LOVED every moment I've spent playing them. On the other hand, I've made 3 republic chars... a sage, a knight and a gunslinger. I deleted all of them after I finished Taris (more or less lvl 22-23), just couldn't bring myself to play them anymore. The story doesn't compare imo (not just the class storylines - the planet's/faction storylines too). Don't even get me started on the armor sets: there is no way in hell I can play a male consular, I'd even cringe with a female. The Jedi Knight sets have to be the worst looking thing since WoW's tier 2 placeholders back when BWL was first introduced.

 

And lastly... the companions. Oh my god, what a difference. I hate the *********** lizzard-man so much, Corso is annoying as hell, Kira is mediocre and bugged out on my Knight anyway (to be fair, the droid seems fun. But he's just too upbeat for me most of the time) Compare that heap of trash to the eternal awesome of Khem Val, servant of Tulak Hord, devourer of the rebels at Yn and Chabosh, consumer of the Dromund system or the strong-headed idealist Ashara. Or the witty and charming Vette, the brooding Jaessa, or the lovable anarchist Kaliyo. I'd pick just one of the Empire's companions over all of the republic's combined... it's not even close.

 

It's funny, because I always like playing the underdog. But in this game, I just plain can't. There is not a single thing I prefer on the republic side... not one.

[Arathea]

I honestly didn't read OP post. But I can answer the question in the thread title.

 

I picked Empire side because I figured the choices were gonna be a bit more nuanced. Mainly in the difference of Sith vs Jedi.

 

However, as it turned out, I ended up lightside on my Sith not because I wanted to be light side, but because of the puppy-eating dark choices.

 

This is how it often goes when my Sith is presented a choice;

 

Light Side: Let the fella live and he and all his cronies will join the Sith Empire, usually providing expertise knowledge in the form of local knowledge of area or what not.

 

Dark Side: Kill the dude because it's been so long since I've grilled something with lightning.

 

Sure, in the end my choice makes no difference to the story or progression of the Empire. But most dark choices are stupid and detrimental to the Sith Empire's goal of controlling the galaxy.

 

The few times (very few) where the dark choice was the smarter one, I chose it.

 

TLDR

I thought the choices on Empire side was gonna be more nuanced. Not sure if they are as I have little experience with the Rep side. But the choices are pretty poorly written imho.

[ActionPrinny]

The major problem here is that absolutely nothing was done to address the population imbalance chances on launch from Bioware's end. Including ways that honestly would have taken very little programming resources for them to implement.

 

Even something as simple as popping up a warning like "This server has a dramatic imbalance towards Empire. We recommend making a Republic character here or choosing another server." would have been much better than nothing at all.

 

Rift would temporarily lock out character creation on a certain side if the population imbalance got too bad. Final Fantasy 11 would actually place you on a random server unless you had a friend code to let a friend roll on your server, etc.

[Comfterbilly]

The Jedi have nothing to fight for but empty morals, leaving people very unfulfilled. The Republic is the "good side" but its obvious the writers started with no idea of what good really is.

 

There has to be more to fight for than "because it was the right thing to do." Take the politically correct garbage out of the story, Bioware, and find out what would really motivate people to be on that side. Peace and harmony is not going to do it.

 

For the Republic to be worth playing there has to be more than stars and sunshine in the story. There is no way, for the daring courageous player, to get into an empty story like this version of the Republic.

 

Q: Why aren't more people playing as the Republic?

 

Simple answer: because this is not the Republic. Its a sad, sorry P.C. shadow of the Republic.

 

And anyway, screw the Republic lol.

[sollis]

as someone mentioned earlier i picked by the sound of their voice, when i reached female jedi knight i realised that the voice is from my fav character from final fantasy 12, princess ashe, so i sticked with her

[Arathea]

The major problem here is that absolutely nothing was done to address the population imbalance chances on launch from Bioware's end. Including ways that honestly would have taken very little programming resources for them to implement.

 

Actually, there was something done... or so I hope

 

The guilds that registered before launch each got to choose a few guilds as rivals and allies (to stay on the same server) and were otherwise distributed among the servers. But then they could have only focused on spreading server-load and nothing on balance.

[Tristik]

~~

My guild picked Sith because we were Imperial in SWG. That's pretty much it.

~~

[Gradivus]

I would like to point out that this faction balance concearns PvP servers and PvP servers only. I play on an RP-PvP server (Lord Calypho) and, as an imperial, have never played an Empire vs. Empire Huttball match. And I've played a lot. Huttball in general makes up for about 1/3 of the warzones I play, pretty normal.

It is only the pure PvP servers where this problem is so serious, or there at all.

[mitigated]

1 thing and 1 thing only would ever get me to play a Republic... Keldor being a playabale race, because Plo Koon is a bad mofo!

[Harsisus]

Been a big fan of the whole overlord Sith thing right the way through all the films and everything else - so wasn't much of a choice.

 

UNLIMITED POWAAAAAHH!

 

Empire, Sith Sorcerer just because.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Harsisus

[zudzud]

I didn't really choose faction as much as I choose a class, in my case BH. Would've prefered a third "neutral" faction to be honest.