Tanks in PVP... uselss?

[Coyotecalls]

So, I've played a Sith Sorc and a Imp agent and a gun slinger and a Jedi sage and all of them when I played them in low level PVP where actually still very fun. Then I made a Sith Juggy and WOW it sucks. My damage is bad because I'm a tank and I get that, that's fine.

 

I'm not expecting to do a lot of damage, but I would like to do -some- damage and right now all any class has to do to stop -everything- I can do is knock me away or slow me.

 

If they have any ability AT ALL that lets them move faster than me I can't do anything to them and becase the cool down on force leap is so long most of the time my "Combat" ends up being I get guned down to half my life as I close on a target and then I get knocked back and force leap back barely able to I get in a few hits before I die from losing half my life pool before the fight actually started for me.

 

Alternatively I can force leap to them, get in two swings then get knocked back and get mowed down while I close on them again.

 

Melee is *********** screwed in this game because everyone has a slow, everyone has a knock back and then lets not even start on the sorcerer/sage force speed.

 

So tell me, what am I doing wrong? What magic talent or ability makes it so I am not a free kill to anyone who has any form of range ability?

 

Out of all the classes I have played this class is the only one I feel COMPLETLY *********** usless on. I'm not even sure why melee classes play PVP.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Coyotecalls

[Jooji]

You're either level 10 or you aren't spec'd properly if you think tanks do no damage. On a regular basis I see tanks do 200k+ damage and easily get 10 medals.

 

Judging PvP before level 50 w/ gear is stupid.

[Coyotecalls]

So, you're saying I shouldn't PVP in the game until 50? That's a great game plan there.

[Knifewrench]

You're supposed to be in DPS gear. If you're not, you're doing it wrong.

[gofortheko]

So, you're saying I shouldn't PVP in the game until 50? That's a great game plan there.

 

He's probably saying that every class has it's peaks and valleys and a lowbie tank does in fact suck. Once you get more abilities and talents (you know by leveling up) you become more effective. You could try this, or you could come cry on the forums instead.

[CupieFoxtail]

So, you're saying I shouldn't PVP in the game until 50? That's a great game plan there.

 

I played a match of huttball on my level 18 jedi shadow earlier

Top damage done, all the defender medals, and 8 total medals

No, not useless. Get to level 16 or so and then you'll have more core abilities

[XElementalX]

So, you're saying I shouldn't PVP in the game until 50? That's a great game plan there.

 

Nope, but if You insist upon playing a jugger *and* insist upon *damagedealing* being the most significant element of pvp *and* insist upon doing it below lets say level 30-40 then You are in for some boredom and frustrating experiences.

[GothicSaint]

You're either level 10 or you aren't spec'd properly if you think tanks do no damage. On a regular basis I see tanks do 200k+ damage and easily get 10 medals.

 

Judging PvP before level 50 w/ gear is stupid.

 

That's at level 40 and beyond that gets that kind of damage. Mid 40's to get over 200k consistently. The medals are from protection which I think are excessive to me.If you use a single mechanic and get 3 medals for just standing still for an entire match that's not right.

 

To the OP, the juggy is a frustrating class until about 35 and gets amazing at 40 on.

 

I've tried all specs at early levels Vengeance,Rage, Immortal, rage/vengeance hybrid.

 

The best at lower levels (for me anyway) was Rage spec.

 

Just take your beating like we all did, then watch them run in fear later on

[Asurai]

i used to be like you.. then one day at 50 i decided to spec focus and havent looked back.

[Saviorofcamelot]

I play a Sage Healer and I made a tank friend during a WZ around level 30.

 

He's been running with me since level 30 and I won't PvP without him anymore.

 

When I solo PvE I get jumped by 5 people and die in 2 seconds. When he is guarding me it gives me to to purge the CC and then Force Speed away. I swing back around a pillar or structure and I can start healing him from a safe distance.

 

By the time they normally see what's happening 1 or 2 of them are dead and then we can just kill the remaining ones in a straight up battle.

 

Healers LOVE tanks and tanks LOVE healers.

 

I'll PvP with 3 tanks before I'll ever PvP with 3 DPS. So long as everyone knows what they are doing a group of 1 healer and 3 tanks or 2 healers and 2 tanks can destroy anything or anyone. It might take a little extra time but the result is always better...

Edited February 6, 2012 by Saviorofcamelot

[Coyotecalls]

i used to be like you.. then one day at 50 i decided to spec focus and havent looked back.

 

Speced focus? What do you mean by that?

[PuppetSoul]

Speced focus? What do you mean by that?

 

Spec the shared tree (for Jugg that's Rage).

 

You basically sit around for 20 seconds, and then DoT somebody, leap onto them and then ruin their day.

 

The spec requires you to be level 40 to use though (before that you lack the DoT, and have to use Force Choke with its 50s cooldown).

[kevlayu]

Tanks are doing absolutely fine if not slightly op in Wz. I have been pvping as a tanking shadow since lv 32. Now I am lv 40, got all the 40 pvp gears. My shadow has 15500 hp, average 8 medals easily every match, often only have 0-1 death each match. I have been seeing people constantly complaining about how range > melee, but I havent had any issue with range class so far. The key is you need to constantly making sure you put slow on the range, interrupt is also very important, also use your cc breaker, defense cool down wisely. If you do that, a tank melee is a unstopble Wz beast. Enjoy tanking.

[TheFeelOfCotton]

At level 14 on my Vanguard i finished a Civil War match with 169K damage 9 medals, earned the Immortal thingy and had over 56k defender points.

 

Tanks are just fine

[Coyotecalls]

At level 14 on my Vanguard i finished a Civil War match with 169K damage 9 medals, earned the Immortal thingy and had over 56k defender points.

 

Tanks are just fine

 

So, your reply to the "Melee is at a horrible disadvantage" thread is "My ranged character does awesome!"

 

Thanks for your contribution..??

[PuppetSoul]

At level 14 on my Vanguard i finished a Civil War match with 169K damage 9 medals, earned the Immortal thingy and had over 56k defender points.

 

Tanks are just fine

 

Vanguard is a ranged DPS.

 

When people say "tank" when referring to PvP, they're explicitly referring to Guard/Jugg.

[Coyotecalls]

So after PVPing for a while I finally got into a one on one with a range so I can show just how bad the game is for melee who don't have stealth and stuns to keep people from just knocking them away or gunning them down as they close.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxCvQPr0oj8

[CupieFoxtail]

So after PVPing for a while I finally got into a one on one with a range so I can show just how bad the game is for melee who don't have stealth and stuns to keep people from just knocking them away or gunning them down as they close.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxCvQPr0oj8

 

Man, if you think rambo'ing is indicative of anything, I HOPE you keep dying

[CupieFoxtail]

Vanguard is a ranged DPS.

 

False.

[Idockdudes]

So, I've played a Sith Sorc and a Imp agent and a gun slinger and a Jedi sage and all of them when I played them in low level PVP where actually still very fun. Then I made a Sith Juggy and WOW it sucks. My damage is bad because I'm a tank and I get that, that's fine.

 

I'm not expecting to do a lot of damage, but I would like to do -some- damage and right now all any class has to do to stop -everything- I can do is knock me away or slow me.

 

If they have any ability AT ALL that lets them move faster than me I can't do anything to them and becase the cool down on force leap is so long most of the time my "Combat" ends up being I get guned down to half my life as I close on a target and then I get knocked back and force leap back barely able to I get in a few hits before I die from losing half my life pool before the fight actually started for me.

 

Alternatively I can force leap to them, get in two swings then get knocked back and get mowed down while I close on them again.

 

Melee is *********** screwed in this game because everyone has a slow, everyone has a knock back and then lets not even start on the sorcerer/sage force speed.

 

So tell me, what am I doing wrong? What magic talent or ability makes it so I am not a free kill to anyone who has any form of range ability?

 

Out of all the classes I have played this class is the only one I feel COMPLETLY *********** usless on. I'm not even sure why melee classes play PVP.

 

Warriors/Knights get better at higher levels. Tanks that want to sponge damage get better at higher levels.

 

If you want to reach your full potential you will either play full DPS or play a DPS spec that intends to be in a tank stance for guard. You can also go full tank if you want, but you will have to be in a premade group with good heals and DPS to be worthwhile.

 

All signs point you being at a little bit a disadvantage to ranged classes at lower levels. There are certain innate disadvantages to being a melee, but its nothing thats insurmountable if you are decent.

[The_Stig]

No, learn better tactics. Play with a team or a healer. Here, my WZ today. Full tank spec PT 32/7/2.

 

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg287/lonesoldier011/Screenshot_2012-02-05_21_49_34_535832.jpg

[Skillmare]

I don't know what level you are but I will try to shed some light.

 

I was playing as Immortal. I leveled up that way (HEHEHE!!) and it wasn't really that fun. At 50, I played as Immortal still and had trouble being productive in warzones. My gear was crappy. So I decided to go Rage, and it's a lot more productive WITH the crappy gear. I plan on going back to Immortal later on. Basically, as Rage, you just need to rely on using your smash ability after Force Crush / Force Choke and Obliterate. This increases your smash damage and the obliterate ensures it's a crit. This is mostly for AOE damage. You'll get 2.5k crits very easily, if that's what you're looking for.

 

To move onto your issues:

 

Once you get Force Push, you can use that to force charge back to people. Someone knocks you back? Force push someone or them, if possible, and leap back into action. Be sure to Saber Ward if you're taking damage, toss your light saber at them. Also, you should be in soresu form; no reason to not be really.

 

The reasons juggernauts are viable in PVP:

 

AOE taunt (threatening scream) - use this on CD when in packs. This reduces people within its range to do 30% less damage if not attacking you.

 

Use taunt on CD when not being targeted. If you can put a guard up on the person they're targeting, even better; you absorb 50% of the damage while they do 30% less damage.

 

Intimidating roar. Use it often while in groups (as long as there's no aoe).

 

Learn to use intercede. Great ability.

 

Unless you're with a healer, I don't ever recommend really going out of soresu form. The damage you gain from shii-cho to me isn't worth it, and I prefer defending and absorbing as much as I can.

 

I haven't reached my potential with the class but I normally get at least 9 medals without much effort (meaning, I stick to objectives, not medals). If I try, I can get 11, but that's pointless.

 

As a tank, do your job and protect. Damage comes while you protect, but ensure your guard is almost always up, and ensure that if you put it on someone, you either stick with that person or turn it off.

[Idockdudes]

No, learn better tactics. Play with a team or a healer. Here, my WZ today. Full tank spec PT 32/7/2.

 

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg287/lonesoldier011/Screenshot_2012-02-05_21_49_34_535832.jpg

 

How much does specing as a tank directly increase your ability to get protection damage? I dont really know a trooper/BH tank specs that well, but chances are not very much.

 

It indirectly helps by giving you more survivability. Getting actual protection numbers really comes down to circumstance and pushing the right buttons at the right time. If you could stay alive in a DPS spec with a tanking stance chances are you could do just as much protection. You probably wouldnt because you would focus more on DPS, but thats my point.

[The_Stig]

How much does specing as a tank directly increase your ability to get protection damage? I dont really know a trooper/BH tank specs that well, but chances are not very much.

 

It indirectly helps by giving you more survivability. Getting actual protection numbers really comes down to circumstance and pushing the right buttons at the right time. If you could stay alive in a DPS spec with a tanking stance chances are you could do just as much protection. You probably wouldnt because you would focus more on DPS, but thats my point.

 

Key to getting protection is staying close to your guarded target, taunting the top enemy damage dealers, and using flame sweep effectively. Getting the extra 10% shield chance from the shield tech tree makes a big difference for me. Also, if you chose to DPS and chase targets your guarded target has to stay close to you. Since most heals are channeled this becomes a problem for a healer. So as a tank you stay close to the healer/guard target and attack people who are direct threat to healer/others.

[Valeena]

If this gives you any kind of motivation, Sarne and (I think) Cohh are both tanks in this screenie and they can do over 300k on a pretty regular basis. It gets easier/better at higher levels. Tanks are far from useless. In fact, they are very powerful team mates to have in PvP (speaking from a healer's stand point).

 

Also,

Be dps specc, go into tank form, and cast guard

Problem solved

I agree.