The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

[Tumri]

Sounds like you think your the best Mara ingame.

 

I think that a large portion of my server consists of very unskilled players and as a result I'm part of the "1%" if you will. This means I have both a gear and skill advantage against in every warzone and as a result It's incredibly easy for me to just run around and do whatever I want without being stopped. If the other team has a few good players it's a whole different story.

 

I also don't know about "in the game" but I do know that there are exactly 6 good Marauders on my server. One of them is a guildie that doesn't PvP much. The other four live in WZs so I'm either teamed up with them or pitted against them often. We end up being pretty close in damage and in how much we helped with objectives. The other Marauders are bad and a lot of them actually rerolled over the past month. I see less and less daily.

[Tumri]

Great, lose control gief burst.

 

Agreed?

 

I'm sure 90% of non-Sorcs would completely agree to that. Buff Lightning so it's more bursty and useful. Nerf the insane hybrid utility/control.

[Aidank]

Only thing you want to accomplish is make sorc totally free kill instead mostly free kill that its now.

 

Wont happen.

 

Anyone that thinks sorcerers are a free kill is either trolling or doesn't know how to keybind.

[GrandMike]

I think that a large portion of my server consists of very unskilled players and as a result I'm part of the "1%" if you will. This means I have both a gear and skill advantage against in every warzone and as a result It's incredibly easy for me to just run around and do whatever I want without being stopped. If the other team has a few good players it's a whole different story.

 

I also don't know about "in the game" but I do know that there are exactly 6 good Marauders on my server. One of them is a guildie that doesn't PvP much. The other four live in WZs so I'm either teamed up with them or pitted against them often. We end up being pretty close in damage and in how much we helped with objectives. The other Marauders are bad and a lot of them actually rerolled over the past month. I see less and less daily.

 

So a class has to be nerfed because people play badly. lol

 

Good try.

 

Sorc gets pwned by enough classes as it is. Can you tell us exactly why sorc should be free kill for - every other class?

 

I'm sure 90% of non-Sorcs would completely agree to that. Buff Lightning so it's more bursty and useful. Nerf the insane hybrid utility/control.

 

No, they would QQ about being killed in 6-8 s, just as now they QQ about control.

 

Anyone that thinks sorcerers are a free kill is either trolling or doesn't know how to keybind.

 

One of these days you will understand. Or maybe not.

Edited February 10, 2012 by GrandMike

[CaptainInsano]

That's actually false. A sorc counters melee DPS with their abundant CC and kiting tools. They're the frost mages of SWTOR. Sorcerers are countered by Operatives because their burst is unavoidable and can't be kited due to stuns and knockdowns.

 

I have to disagree with this statement, however. A sorc with the hybrid sorc you mentioned can kite an operative to kingdom come. It's actually quite sad and operatives can't get one below half health before being hit with one of the 5 CCs plus force speed on a low cd as a bailout, not to mention bubble.

[Tumri]

My most played character is actually a sorcerer, the hybrid spec is clearly imbalanced. Passive blinds on bubble breaks, better AoE burst than focus bomber guardians, and on top of that it's stupidly easy to play.

 

When you roll another class it really puts it into perspective how imbalanced sorcerers are.

 

Good to see more Sorcerers open to the idea of their class being rebalanced. I actually feel that the 31-point talents could use a bit of buffing since they're both worse than their 11-point counterparts but that will never happen with utility hybrids running around causing everyone to feel Sorcerers are overpowered.

[GrandMike]

I have to disagree with this statement, however. A sorc with the hybrid sorc you mentioned can kite an operative to kingdom come. It's actually quite sad and operatives can't get one below half health before being hit with one of the 5 CCs plus force speed on a low cd as a bailout, not to mention bubble.

 

Sorc can kite bad players forever. True.

[Daex]

Disagree with the post and everything. After tons and tons of PvP played I have never felt that sorcerers in any form or specc or kind are even remotely OP.

 

Only class that truly felt OP is Operative. It still feels that way even after the nerf. Getting me down pretty fast but if I manage to catch them in stealth it's different.

 

Aside from that honestly only other class that feels OP is mine - Juggernaut. Get 4 stacks > buffs > charge and then you get Smash for 6k and Scream for 3k afterwards.

[da_krall]

Not even worth my time to upload pics so I'll just use the ones I posted before. I don't "get destroyed" by anyone. That doesn't mean I don't understand when a class is imbalanced and needs to be fixed.

 

https://imgur.com/a/P3lM4#0

 

You did way more damage than anyone else in that battle, had 7 death for 43 kills.....your class is OP.

Edited February 10, 2012 by da_krall

[Tumri]

I have to disagree with this statement, however. A sorc with the hybrid sorc you mentioned can kite an operative to kingdom come. It's actually quite sad and operatives can't get one below half health before being hit with one of the 5 CCs plus force speed on a low cd as a bailout, not to mention bubble.

 

Yeah I totally forgot about that nerf they got hit with. Previously I was seeing some well geared Operatives hunting down Sorcerers whenever their adrenals were up. Typically they'd either get a kill or get them low enough so that others would finish them off quickly. Post-nerf I mostly see Operatives get them somewhere around 50% before being chain CC'd because of their lack of gap closers. Part of the issue also seems to be that Sorcerers are picking up the 3s blind on bubble pop far more than they seemed to be a few weeks ago.

[Bastion-fox]

Sorc can kite bad players forever. True.

 

Because Operatives have a gap closer...oh wait...

Because Operatives can cleanse Affliction...oh wait...

[GrandMike]

Because Operatives have a gap closer...oh wait...

Because Operatives can cleanse Affliction...oh wait...

 

Sadly, quoted stuff still applies.

Edited February 10, 2012 by GrandMike

[Vales]

Ah yes the infamous "once he knocked me back into the wall therefore bad" argument.

Never mind it has a 2 second delay and you might have just moved that way while he was still twiddeling his thumbs waiting for it to go off.

 

I am sure you never made silly mistakes.

[Bastion-fox]

Sadly, quoted stuff still applies.

 

Sadly you don't play a class that has no gap closer. So therefore you are still, in denial. I guess a passive stun is cool though. Wish I had one. Hell, I wish I had four different CC in my hybrid specs.

[Ich_Bin]

That's part of the problem. The drawback to being a ranged DPS is having to cast abilities. The hybrid spec gives them more mobility through nearly spammable instant-chain lightning and a lack of reliance on casting while also giving them increased damage. Hybrid 20/21 builds are also giving them more CC and kiting ability than any other spec. It's just too much for one player to have all at once.

 

/sign

[Vales]

Can't restealth in combat to close the gap when affliction is on me since affliction can't be cleansed by our cleanse, DERP.

 

Opener means nothing if I open and bubble bursts to stun me, either I waste my breaker and leave myself open to electrocute or whirlwind or I eat the stun and allow them to create space.

 

It is a mezz which lasts shorter than your stun. If you are any good you can Vanish just when Affliction runs out.

And dont tell me now Sorcs have incredible burst.

[Tumri]

Ah yes the infamous "once he knocked me back into the wall therefore bad" argument.

Never mind it has a 2 second delay and you might have just moved that way while he was still twiddeling his thumbs waiting for it to go off.

 

I am sure you never made silly mistakes.

 

It's not a silly mistake when a player literally cannot land a knockback for an entire game. The disappointing part is such players still impact a game greatly because they can either AoE people down or kite whoever goes after them indefinitely.

[Crujido]

Hybrid spec sorc/sage is terrible lol.

 

You don't do dps or healing well at all.

[Artthen]

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Edited February 10, 2012 by Artthen

[GrandMike]

Hybrid spec sorc/sage is terrible lol.

 

You don't do dps or healing well at all.

 

Its not terrible. Its not OP either. It has enough counters as it is. Its called balance.

 

It does good SUSTAINED damage when DAMAGE specced.

 

It does good HEALING when HEALING specced.

 

WAI

 

Sadly you don't play a class that has no gap closer. So therefore you are still, in denial. I guess a passive stun is cool though. Wish I had one. Hell, I wish I had four different CC in my hybrid specs.

 

sigh its not stun...tells lot about your understanding of the class...again it shows

Edited February 10, 2012 by GrandMike

[Tumri]

Hybrid spec sorc/sage is terrible lol.

 

You don't do dps or healing well at all.

 

Then you won't mind if the more powerful Lightning utility talents get moved up.

[Crujido]

Then you won't mind if the more powerful Lightning utility talents get moved up.

 

I don't see why.

Hybrid spec doesn't do either well enough to where it would be OP.

They do amazing dps full dps and amazing healing full healer.

 

I'll take 400k healing or 400k dps over 75k healing and 125k dps

[GunnarL]

I am a hybrid sage (edit: and I use rakata resolve stim and the damage I have listed is UN adrenal/relic'd) ..... I'd like to clear up a couple of things on this thread really quickly. First of all,

 

The reason you see us leading the Damage Sheets as hybrid specs is because we do AoE/ AE Damage. Essentially I do 2.5k Crit damage with force in balance (to non tank / non guarded) people. It does that up to 3 people. I also have Telekentic Wave ( NEVER spent time to cast it, always waited for Presence of Mind proc because of the extra 20% damage it gets added) which does about 3k (crit) to about 5 people (non tank / non guarded) if I'm lucky. I use force potency every chance I can when using those abilities. So in those 2 abilities I have done around 5k dmg to a max of three people and another 3k dmg to 2 (assuming that everyone is being silly and stacking up). Add that all up and its around 21k damage. The point that you all seem to ignore is that really I have only done a max of 5k damage to one person! In champ/cent gear most people have around 15k health. So they still have 10k health to play with which is MORE than enough in any pvp circumstance.

 

I also read that someone is getting 5k damage absorb from a bubble. NOT the case, in columni/ battlemaster gear with 670 force damage my bubble really sits around 2.5-3k. No where near that 5k mark. And even in full champ with some BM pieces I still get crit for over 4k by snipers over 3k by almost every other dps class. Without ALL my CC abilities AND sprint up most I stand VERY little chance of surviving an onslaught by any dps class. The big problems come when I'm allowed to stand in the back and dps. So maybe you guys are doing it wrong, focus fire sages (and agents/smugglers) first because well even with healers we die quick end of story.

 

There is also a large misconception about 1v1 hybrid being overpowered. Honestly 1v1 a full madness/balance spec is far superior. I have played this spec it is VERY easy to dot kite and kill pretty much any class to include healers and tanks. I personally hated it just because outside of 1v1's you are low on force non stop and just bait once you get that first kill off. I also raid often and a spec where you run out of force within 2 minutes of a fight is silly, seeing that most raid boss's can take at least 4minutes.

 

Now I'm not sure if Bioware intended you to be able to get presence of mind and telekentic wave in the same build, but as it stands it is there and its very functional (but not to the point where its OP). What bioware would need to do to get me to respec something different would be to change the 31 point talents because as many sorcs/sages have said they are a joke, underpowered and useless.

Edited February 10, 2012 by GunnarL

[Elrathion]

I am a hybrid sage..... I'd like to clear up a couple of things on this thread really quickly. First of all,

 

The reason you see us leading the Damage Sheets as hybrid specs is because we do AoE/ AE Damage. Essentially I do 2.5k Crit damage with force in balance (to non tank / non guarded) people. It does that up to 3 people. I also have Telekentic Wave ( NEVER spent time to cast it, always waited for Presence of Mind proc because of the extra 20% damage it gets added) which does about 3k (crit) to about 5 people (non tank / non guarded) if I'm lucky. I use force potency every chance I can when using those abilities. So in those 2 abilities I have done around 5k dmg to a max of three people and another 3k dmg to 2 (assuming that everyone is being silly and stacking up). Add that all up and its around 21k damage. The point that you all seem to ignore is that really I have only done a max of 5k damage to one person! In champ/cent gear most people have around 15k health. So they still have 10k health to play with which is MORE than enough in any pvp circumstance.

 

I also read that someone is getting 5k damage absorb from a bubble. NOT the case, in columni/ battlemaster gear with 670 force damage my bubble really sits around 2.5-3k. No where near that 5k mark. And even in full champ with some BM pieces I still get crit for over 4k by snipers over 3k by almost every other dps class. Without ALL my CC abilities AND sprint up most I stand VERY little chance of surviving an onslaught by any dps class. The big problems come when I'm allowed to stand in the back and dps. So maybe you guys are doing it wrong, focus fire sages (and agents/smugglers) first because well even with healers we die quick end of story.

 

There is also a large misconception about 1v1 hybrid being overpowered. Honestly 1v1 a full madness/balance spec is far superior. I have played this spec it is VERY easy to dot kite and kill pretty much any class to include healers and tanks. I personally hated it just because outside of 1v1's you are low on force non stop and just bait once you get that first kill off. I also raid often and a spec where you run out of force within 2 minutes of a fight is silly, seeing that most raid boss's can take at least 4minutes.

 

Now I'm not sure if Bioware intended you to be able to get presence of mind and telekentic wave in the same build, but as it stands it is there and its very functional (but not to the point where its OP). What bioware would need to do to get me to respec something different would be to change the 31 point talents because as many sorcs/sages have said they are a joke, underpowered and useless.

 

This person tells the truth. I can only confirm that the balance tree is WAY beter for 1v1 situations. Basically you make a trade-off trading survivability for extra damage. Mostly because you don't run out of force like balance does, so you can keep dps'ing, and you do alot of aoe damage, which looks nice on the charts. Despite all the bubble shield/knockback goodies, the fact remains that the 31 balance tree talent > all of that. The only reasons to really pick hybrid is the increased generation and telek wave for groupfights.

 

 

The Op has also good insight in what stop us: put a stealther on us and we basically are dead if they know what they do. [not as balance --> imoblise --> bbye!]

 

Currently: Full Healer, Full balance or Hybrids are all valid options for pvp, Each has it's strenghts and weaknesses, neither is beter or worse. Healer helps your team win warzones, Balance helps your team in the way you survive long/deal good damage and dot interrupt everyone , Finally Hybrid helps you dominate large group fights due to AOE damage.

 

For PVE: If you nerf Hybrid you nerf our pve damage. Why? It's the only build we don't get oom It does about 4% more dps then any other tree like that. Take away the CC options, and you might as well expect us to die each single 1v1 encounter, because it's allready really hard to win 1v1 fights as hybrid, and you might aswell expect us to roll over and die in group fights, cse we have no way of proper escape then.

[Ich_Bin]

So maybe you guys are doing it wrong, focus fire sages (and agents/smugglers) first because well even with healers we die quick end of story.

 

Honestly I am playing a Scoundrel and I can tell you that especially from stealth Sorcs/Sages are one of the hardest (if not the hardest) class to kill as long as they have their bubble up (and there is no reason why they wouldn't have it up 100% of the time).

Edited February 10, 2012 by Ich_Bin