The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

[Slovic]

Those abilities you mentioned for Snipers and Mercs.. Most of them are absolute trash for the amount of resources they consume. They both barely do any DPS on the move. That's how ranged classes are supposed to function. Sorcerers got a few of their main abilities as instant-casts. Count yourself lucky. Affliction Tab-DoTing is quite strong if you absolutely must keep running to avoid being focused down. You also underestimate the power of shock. It hits for more than all but my hardest hitting move(Annihilate).

 

Not to mention the utility sorc's have WHILE having similar mobile dps as other classes.

 

If you tab dot as assault or dirty fighting you will run out of resources on the 2nd person. Then you will be in the "bad regen" zone. Correctly me if I am wrong... sorc's don't have a "bad regen" zone do they?

[Varicite]

Those abilities you mentioned for Snipers and Mercs.. Most of them are absolute trash for the amount of resources they consume. They both barely do any DPS on the move. That's how ranged classes are supposed to function. Sorcerers got a few of their main abilities as instant-casts. Count yourself lucky. Affliction Tab-DoTing is quite strong if you absolutely must keep running to avoid being focused down. You also underestimate the power of shock. It hits for more than all but my hardest hitting move(Annihilate).

 

Wait, so first you laughed because I said that those classes had a lot more mobile damage than a Sorc.

 

Then I pointed it out, and you're saying "BUT WAIT, THOSE THINGS SUCK EVEN IF THEY HIT WAY HARDER THAN SHOCK, FORCE SLOW, AND AFFLICTION".

 

Okay, so the point you are making is that those classes do terrible dps on the move, and that a Sorc is even farther below terrible. That's exactly what I said too.

 

Shock CRITS for like 2kish on a cooldown. You're telling me that all but your hardest hitting moves hit for 1k on a Marauder? With a cooldown? Try again.

 

You are VASTLY overestimating the value of Affliction tab-targetting. It is useful for stopping caps on doors/turrets, and for proc'ing fast Force Lightning. That is it. Over the entire 15 seconds, it will amount to the damage of ONE of your good swings.

[justcallmetarzan]

Side A. OP hybrid spec that was never intended or balanced by Bioware EA who called for nerfs on other classes, then called for FURTHER nerfs on those classes.

 

Now claims the game and their class is perfectly balanced as do the people who rerolled this class, can't believe how simple and stupid it is and aren't yet 50 and can feel the nerf bat breathing down their neck.

 

Side B. LOL at these hypocrites.

 

Side C. New players to SWTOR. Why is there all sorcs in every warzone?

 

Side A. Cus the game is perfectly balanced.

 

I'm confused why you think hybrid is OP. I've stated several times that the difference between hybrid and straight 31 is only about 30 dps (it's actually 40, but no big deal). The most common hybrid spec by far is 13/28. By switching to a hybrid, sage/sorc must choose to:

 

1) Gimp damage to preserve self-heals; OR

2) Forgo self heals in favor of slightly more output;

AND

3) Forgo a 2-sec root and one of the highest internal damage abilities in the game.

 

They pick up:

 

1) 6% buff to one useful ability (TKW)

2) TKW

3) Psychic Suffusion.

 

OR they can go the really fail route and roll a 20/21 or similar variant and have even less dps and be holding their team back with needless aoe resolve.

 

The only time hybrid is "OP" is when they are left alone to sit at the side and nuke people without interruption. But then again, merc and sniper do the exact same thing.

 

Sages get torn in two by marauders. When a marauder gets on you, your choice is to either die, or spend everything you have running from it. And if there's a healer on the other team, you'll go on like this till someone else kills the marauder and you have about 10-20 secs of respite.

 

There is absolutely no evidence of hybrid specs being unbalanced. Mercs and DF smugglers out-dps them in WZ's all the time. Their CC ability comes at the tradeoff of a massive dps loss.

 

It's pretty simple really.

 

Edit - I'm just curious how many people posting in here actually HAVE a level 50 sage/sorc, and if so, what specs they've tried.

Edited February 13, 2012 by justcallmetarzan

[Datku]

You do realize that the Sorc class was overpopulated before the game was even released, right? Before anyone had any idea what their abilities would be. Before the class was even CALLED Sorcerer.

 

There were polls on these forums for years asking what class everyone intended to roll; Sorcerer won by a large margin every time.

 

But I'm sure that you're right, everyone rolled Sorcerer on day one because it was OP, and not because they liked the mystique of the class and were excited to play an evil sorcerer.

 

This...

 

I have a BH and a IA as well as my sorc. Love the BH and love my sniper. Played both mostly in closed beta. Had made an assassin and got up to the early 20's but just didn't care for it. Story was cool but didn't like the style. The assassin was the first character I made when I got into closed beta. After playing the BH and IA I was sold on playing a non-force character at launch. After the last beta came out I decided to try out a sorc. Not because of PvP but because I saw them soloing elites fairly easly. Sorcs level pretty easy...I mean you got a tank and you are either healing or dpsing. Even a dps spec sorc could heal/bubble Khem enough to take on a couple elites and know you were going to move on to the next set.

 

I actually enjoyed the sorc for PvE so when game launched I made the sorc first. Easy to level, take slicing and only slicing to make money to support my BH and IA. Never even PvP with my sorc till I was 50. I enjoy the sorc because I can play it pretty aggressively and do halfway decent with it in many situations.

 

Classes I fear the most are BH/Troopers. Either not worth my time to try and kill, or they take me down regardless of all my tools like I was lvl 20 in a lvl 50 zone.

 

Ops'/snipers/gunslinger etc all depend on how the fight starts. They get the jump on me most likely I am going to try and CC them and move on. If I get the jump I will blow all cooldowns and try to take them out using every cooldown and trick I can. Sometimes I win, sometimes I loose.

 

Knights/Mauraders I usually start fighting them to find out if they are any good or not. A bad Mara is easy to kill. A good one will send me back to respawn even if I do try and run.

 

Jugs/Guardians are not worth my time to kill and are annoying.

 

Assassin/shadows usually I will fight them and it can go either way although their escape is annoying

 

Sorcs/Sages I engage on sight. I guess I am cocky and figure I am better than they are and want to prove it. Hasn't prevented me from running into a few that hurt me faster than I hurt them but even then it comes down to using the right skills at the right time you can turn almost any fight around if you attack and counter correctly. Healing versions though...pftt not enough time to mess with them unless they are being ganged up on. I can't interupt them enough or burst fast enough to take a healing spec sorc/sage out solo.

 

Anyway long rant on why I replied. I agree with this guy. Sorcs have always been popular and are easy as pie to level up. Great as a money maker to support your other characters and pretty fun to play as well.

[Tumri]

Wait, so first you laughed because I said that those classes had a lot more mobile damage than a Sorc.

 

Then I pointed it out, and you're saying "BUT WAIT, THOSE THINGS SUCK EVEN IF THEY HIT WAY HARDER THAN SHOCK, FORCE SLOW, AND AFFLICTION".

 

Okay, so the point you are making is that those classes do terrible dps on the move, and that a Sorc is even farther below terrible. That's exactly what I said too.

 

Shock CRITS for like 2kish on a cooldown. You're telling me that all but your hardest hitting moves hit for 1k on a Marauder? With a cooldown? Try again.

 

You are VASTLY overestimating the value of Affliction tab-targetting. It is useful for stopping caps on doors/turrets, and for proc'ing fast Force Lightning. That is it. Over the entire 15 seconds, it will amount to the damage of ONE of your good swings.

 

1. No. I said that they do LESS damage than a Sorcerer on the move. If they do decide to blow all their energy/heat then sure, they do a bit more.

 

2. That's exactly what I'm saying. Shock hits harder than anything I have in Annihilation spec other than Annihilate. My Vicious Slash hits for around 1800 damage in Rakata gear and 550 power. I suppose Rupture does more damage than Shock if you count all the DoT ticks that come with it but in that case Affliction does a lot as well.

 

3. Yes I realize it's not great but it's certainly a lot of on the move damage if you have multiple people around to Tab-DoT and can't stop to cast. It's damage over time but so is most of my Annihilation spec damage and people on this thread(not you) have called it "very strong".

Edited February 13, 2012 by Tumri

[Varicite]

Those abilities you mentioned for Snipers and Mercs.. Most of them are absolute trash for the amount of resources they consume. They both barely do any DPS on the move. That's how ranged classes are supposed to function. Sorcerers got a few of their main abilities as instant-casts. Count yourself lucky. Affliction Tab-DoTing is quite strong if you absolutely must keep running to avoid being focused down. You also underestimate the power of shock. It hits for more than all but my hardest hitting move(Annihilate).

 

At launch by the way there were already people saying Sorcerers were a capable/safe pick for a class. At launch Sages weren't a massive majority because they lacked the "cool" factor of shooting lightning but now you see their population growing rapidly. You're probably right though. A large percent of the population probably just suddenly decided that throwing pebbles at people was really cool and it was worth rerolling for that. It had nothing to do with their absolute dominance in PvP.

 

I didn't play in the beta at all, actually. I did, however, browse the forums almost every day until the game was released (from about 2 months before Cataclysm was released, which was when I quit WoW and decided I'd just wait for TOR).

 

So I'm simply going by what the majority on the official forums had been saying they'd play, which was Sorc by a large margin.

 

For the vast majority of the initial Sorcerer wave (most of the geared 50 sorcs you may see), it had nothing to do w/ dominance in PvP. The beta crowd was a very, very tiny sample of all the people who started playing this game during early access and at launch, and as anyone will tell you, the majority of players don't ever come to these forums.

 

You're telling me that they magically knew that Sorcs were OP because you said so to your other cronies in the beta forums?

 

Does not compute.

[biowareftw]

This...

 

I have a BH and a IA as well as my sorc. Love the BH and love my sniper. Played both mostly in closed beta. Had made an assassin and got up to the early 20's but just didn't care for it. Story was cool but didn't like the style. The assassin was the first character I made when I got into closed beta. After playing the BH and IA I was sold on playing a non-force character at launch. After the last beta came out I decided to try out a sorc. Not because of PvP but because I saw them soloing elites fairly easly. Sorcs level pretty easy...I mean you got a tank and you are either healing or dpsing. Even a dps spec sorc could heal/bubble Khem enough to take on a couple elites and know you were going to move on to the next set.

 

I actually enjoyed the sorc for PvE so when game launched I made the sorc first. Easy to level, take slicing and only slicing to make money to support my BH and IA. Never even PvP with my sorc till I was 50. I enjoy the sorc because I can play it pretty aggressively and do halfway decent with it in many situations.

 

Classes I fear the most are BH/Troopers. Either not worth my time to try and kill, or they take me down regardless of all my tools like I was lvl 20 in a lvl 50 zone.

 

Ops'/snipers/gunslinger etc all depend on how the fight starts. They get the jump on me most likely I am going to try and CC them and move on. If I get the jump I will blow all cooldowns and try to take them out using every cooldown and trick I can. Sometimes I win, sometimes I loose.

 

Knights/Mauraders I usually start fighting them to find out if they are any good or not. A bad Mara is easy to kill. A good one will send me back to respawn even if I do try and run.

 

Jugs/Guardians are not worth my time to kill and are annoying.

 

Assassin/shadows usually I will fight them and it can go either way although their escape is annoying

 

Sorcs/Sages I engage on sight. I guess I am cocky and figure I am better than they are and want to prove it. Hasn't prevented me from running into a few that hurt me faster than I hurt them but even then it comes down to using the right skills at the right time you can turn almost any fight around if you attack and counter correctly. Healing versions though...pftt not enough time to mess with them unless they are being ganged up on. I can't interupt them enough or burst fast enough to take a healing spec sorc/sage out solo.

 

Anyway long rant on why I replied. I agree with this guy. Sorcs have always been popular and are easy as pie to level up. Great as a money maker to support your other characters and pretty fun to play as well.

 

Sorc story/assassin story = same. Amazing you didn't realize this when you played the two specs...

 

I hope you enjoyed your beta weekend where you leveled up characters *cough BS cough*.

 

Sorc/sages became overpopulated at the end of each beta phase. It had nothing to do with being easy to level.

 

They are probably one of the worst classes to level up to 10 (not that any are hard but a new MMO player might actually die on one). They are good past that, but to be honest? Marauder/sent level way easier. Guardians blow for leveling and they are more played then sentinels/marauder. Why? Cus marauder/sent is harder to excel on.

 

Like I said the sage story was the WORST I experienced in the game and many people agree. It isn't stopping them from being rerolled to like crazy right now.

[Varicite]

1. No. I said that they do LESS damage than a Sorcerer on the move. If they do decide to blow all their energy/heat then sure, they do a bit more.

 

2. That's exactly what I'm saying. Shock hits harder than anything I have in Annihilation spec other than Annihilate. My Vicious Slash hits for around 1800 damage in Rakata gear and 550 power. I suppose Rupture does more damage than Shock if you count all the DoT ticks that come with it but in that case Affliction does a lot as well.

 

3. Yes I realize it's not great but it's certainly a lot of on the move damage if you have multiple people around to Tab-DoT and can't stop to cast. It's damage over time but so is most of my Annihilation spec damage and people on this thread(not you) have called it "very strong".

 

1) But you didn't say they do less damage than a sorcerer on the move, you said that they have a higher resource cost. That makes sense, because their moves also do... higher damage.

 

And there are more of them that can be used.

 

But in reality, this isn't even true, because for a Sniper, you can hit Rifle Shot twice. For a Mercenary, hit Rapid Shots twice. Congratulations, you just did damage on par w/ Affliction for absolutely 0 resource cost.

 

2) So your ability hits for what Shock can crit for, and has no cooldown. Got it.

 

3) Were YOU ever killed by an Affliction dot by itself when some Sorc tab-targetted you while running through a crowd? Seriously, who wastes GCD's tab-dotting random players w/ Affliction if they are being focused down, unless it's a last ditch effort to get dots on people who might cap a door or turret?

 

It's certainly not being done for the damage portion, lol.

[Varicite]

Sorc story/assassin story = same. Amazing you didn't realize this when you played the two specs...

 

I hope you enjoyed your beta weekend where you leveled up characters *cough BS cough*.

 

Sorc/sages became overpopulated at the end of each beta phase. It had nothing to do with being easy to level.

 

They are probably one of the worst classes to level up to 10 (not that any are hard but a new MMO player might actually die on one). They are good past that, but to be honest? Marauder/sent level way easier. Guardians blow for leveling and they are more played then sentinels/marauder. Why? Cus marauder/sent is harder to excel on.

 

Like I said the sage story was the WORST I experienced in the game and many people agree. It isn't stopping them from being rerolled to like crazy right now.

 

Sorcs were overpopulated before beta invites ever went out... I am not sure what reality you are talking about here.

[Tumri]

1) But you didn't say they do less damage than a sorcerer on the move, you said that they have a higher resource cost. That makes sense, because their moves also do... higher damage.

 

And there are more of them that can be used.

 

But in reality, this isn't even true, because for a Sniper, you can hit Rifle Shot twice. For a Mercenary, hit Rapid Shots twice. Congratulations, you just did damage on par w/ Affliction for absolutely 0 resource cost.

 

2) So your ability hits for what Shock can crit for, and has no cooldown. Got it.

 

3) Were YOU ever killed by an Affliction dot by itself when some Sorc tab-targetted you while running through a crowd? Seriously, who wastes GCD's tab-dotting random players w/ Affliction if they are being focused down, unless it's a last ditch effort to get dots on people who might cap a door or turret?

 

It's certainly not being done for the damage portion, lol.

 

@2 - Yes my rage spender attack with a 4m range hits harder than your instant-cast 30 yard range attack when it doesn't proc the second reduced damage shock. You should be comparing 1x Vicious Slash + 1x Assault(Auto Attack basically, builds 2 rage which is what VS costs) to a full Force Lightning. Your Force Lightning ends up being more damage in equal gear.

 

@3 - If you're given a choice between using your GCDs while kiting or just simply running and doing nothing you should be choosing the former option(unless you're force starved on incredibly rare occasion).

[biowareftw]

I didn't play in the beta at all, actually. I did, however, browse the forums almost every day until the game was released (from about 2 months before Cataclysm was released, which was when I quit WoW and decided I'd just wait for TOR).

 

So I'm simply going by what the majority on the official forums had been saying they'd play, which was Sorc by a large margin.

 

For the vast majority of the initial Sorcerer wave (most of the geared 50 sorcs you may see), it had nothing to do w/ dominance in PvP. The beta crowd was a very, very tiny sample of all the people who started playing this game during early access and at launch, and as anyone will tell you, the majority of players don't ever come to these forums.

 

You're telling me that they magically knew that Sorcs were OP because you said so to your other cronies in the beta forums?

 

Does not compute.

 

Let me tell you what happened at the start of every beta (week or so). We had player polls (not done by Bioware/EA) and other people can attest to this.

 

We asked what class you were going to play. The class representation looked REALLY good, very well spread around. In fact everyone blew smoke up Bioware's butt for how well balanced it looked.

 

At the end of each phase the poll looked like live. Not because of the story. Sorc/Sage Commando/Merc led damn near every poll in the last few phases. At one point Mercs/commandos SUCKED.

 

Marauder/Sentinel was dead last and the smuggler classes were not far behind. Operative actually had quite a few seeing how good it was as a counter to ranged, but the class never really got good until the last phase. Guardians were higher then Jugs and I attribute that to wanting to pve tank and look like Luke Skywalker LOL.

 

Why did everyone want to be a sorc on the non beta forums? Cus there was mass breaking of NDA and leak sites telling people that sorcs/sages were silly good and so were mercs/commandos.

 

I was so convinced after playing a sage that they would be nerfed to the ground that I avoided playing it. To be honest seeing other classes nerfed before the hybrid spec is just laughable.

 

In fact after NDA broke I told friends to avoid the class like the plague. It was way too simple to play and way too good.

 

But believe what you want to believe. There were even numbers (class representaion) in warzones all the way till the end of the beta phase. Then the warzones looked like they do in the 10-49 bracket now.

 

Sorc, Sorc, Sorc, Heal Sorc, Merc, Merc, Sorc, random other class. It had nothing to do with people telling other people that the story was AMAZING lol. To be honest I liked the smuggler story the best out of all of them and it is the least played AC.

 

Smoking hot Risha or emo chicks who draw on their face with crayon. Smuggler had all the best lines as well and the dark side options if you are so inclined? Brutal.

Edited February 13, 2012 by biowareftw

[Rhazesx]

Ignoring the posts from misinformed keyboard turners like biowareftw who claims all sorcerers are hacking, 31-31-31 specced and think MMOs are a dating service, yes he has even raged and cried about males playing female sorcerers in one of his nerf sorcerer threads.

 

I think the OP is a very good Marauder at 1v1 who is just upset that he has take a little longer to kill a certain spec of Sorcerer and it leaves him open for being attacked by others forcing him to vanish and miss out on a kill.

 

That's why most Marauders mostly solo stragglers. I rarely run into one in the middle or following the ball carrier, but If I run around the side or go into the pit they are always there. The only ones I run into in the middle are the ones that take 4 seconds to turn around or are wearing level 48 greens. I can't count how many down to second wins I've been in where we would have lost if the other teams Marauders who topped kills and had 0-2 deaths was actually helping their team.

 

I think we have a strong case for someone who feels entitled to easy fast kills or #1 in every warzone, especially judging buy his screenshots where he out killed, out damaged, had less deaths,more healing than the sorcerers, more valor,more medals and more commendations.

[Tumri]

Ignoring the posts from misinformed keyboard turners like biowareftw who claims all sorcerers are hacking, 31-31-31 specced and think MMOs are a dating service, yes he has even raged and cried about males playing female sorcerers in one of his nerf sorcerer threads.

 

I think the OP is a very good Marauder at 1v1 who is just upset that he has take a little longer to kill a certain spec of Sorcerer and it leaves him open for being attacked by others forcing him to vanish and miss out on a kill.

 

That's why most Marauders mostly solo stragglers. I rarely run into one in the middle or following the ball carrier, but If I run around the side or go into the pit they are always there. The only ones I run into in the middle are the ones that take 4 seconds to turn around or are wearing level 48 greens. I can't count how many down to second wins I've been in where we would have lost if the other teams Marauders who topped kills and had 0-2 deaths was actually helping their team.

 

I think we have a strong case for someone who feels entitled to easy fast kills or #1 in every warzone, especially judging buy his screenshots where he out killed, out damaged, had less deaths,more healing than the sorcerers, more valor,more medals and more commendations.

 

Personal Attacks? Check

Bringing up the dreaded "Screenshots" that have been discussed in length for 10+ pages yet again? Check

Doesn't mention anything to do with the actual OP or what's been discussed so far? Check

Vague generalizations and random assumptions? Check

More Personal Attacks? Oh my..

 

I've decided that when I encounter a troll post I will just post this disclaimer from now on..

 

Warning: All Troll Posts will be IGNORED!

Edited February 13, 2012 by Tumri

[Varicite]

@2 - Yes my rage spender attack with a 4m range hits harder than your instant-cast 30 yard range attack when it doesn't proc the second reduced damage shock. You should be comparing 1x Vicious Slash + 1x Assault(Auto Attack basically, builds 2 rage which is what VS costs) to a full Force Lightning. Your Force Lightning ends up being more damage in equal gear.

 

@3 - If you're given a choice between using your GCDs while kiting or just simply running and doing nothing you should be choosing the former option(unless you're force starved on incredibly rare occasion).

 

When I'm kiting, I'd rather save my gcd's and force for things like shields and force slow, or not being gcd-locked when I need to use an ability at a crucial moment to survive.

 

Why would I compare a channeled ability that roots you and can be interrupted to something that can spammed while moving, and cannot be interrupted?

 

That doesn't even make sense.

[Tumri]

When I'm kiting, I'd rather save my gcd's and force for things like shields and force slow, or not being gcd-locked when I need to use an ability at a crucial moment to survive.

 

Why would I compare a channeled ability that roots you and can be interrupted to something that can spammed while moving, and cannot be interrupted?

 

That doesn't even make sense.

 

Force Lightning is your filler. Our filler consists of Assault for building rage and Vicious Slash for dumping rage.

 

Force Lightning is a ranged ability. Assault/VS are melee. They are the closest things to compare.

[paladinjb]

This isn't Dragonball Z.

 

What's the power level of a hybrid sorc?

 

 

 

IT'S OVER 9000!!!!

Edited February 13, 2012 by paladinjb

[Rhazesx]

 

Why is it I can't find videos like this for sorcerers. I've never seen a sorcerer 1v3 anyone.

[Tumri]

What's the power level of a hybrid sorc?

 

 

 

IT'S OVER 9000!!!!

 

I was actually thinking of Gogeta and Gotenks

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M-aZzPvx3Y&feature=related

[Varicite]

Let me tell you what happened at the start of every beta (week or so). We had player polls (not done by Bioware/EA) and other people can attest to this.

 

We asked what class you were going to play. The class representation looked REALLY good, very well spread around. In fact everyone blew smoke up Bioware's butt for how well balanced it looked.

 

At the end of each phase the poll looked like live. Not because of the story. Sorc/Sage Commando/Merc led damn near every poll in the last few phases. At one point Mercs/commandos SUCKED.

 

Marauder/Sentinel was dead last and the smuggler classes were not far behind. Operative actually had quite a few seeing how good it was as a counter to ranged, but the class never really got good until the last phase. Guardians were higher then Jugs and I attribute that to wanting to pve tank and look like Luke Skywalker LOL.

 

Why did everyone want to be a sorc on the non beta forums? Cus there was mass breaking of NDA and leak sites telling people that sorcs/sages were silly good and so were mercs/commandos.

 

I was so convinced after playing a sage that they would be nerfed to the ground that I avoided playing it. To be honest seeing other classes nerfed before the hybrid spec is just laughable.

 

In fact after NDA broke I told friends to avoid the class like the plague. It was way too simple to play and way too good.

 

But believe what you want to believe. There were even numbers (class representaion) in warzones all the way till the end of the beta phase. Then the warzones looked like they do in the 10-49 bracket now.

 

Sorc, Sorc, Sorc, Heal Sorc, Merc, Merc, Sorc, random other class. It had nothing to do with people telling other people that the story was AMAZING lol. To be honest I liked the smuggler story the best out of all of them and it is the least played AC.

 

Smoking hot Risha or emo chicks who draw on their face with crayon. Smuggler had all the best lines as well and the dark side options if you are so inclined? Brutal.

 

I do recall reports that beta players were saying that the representation was not as skewed as the official forums' polls, but over here in these forums, there was never any real variance.

 

Sorcerer was by far the most popular class before any info was even released. If there was more info added just before launch, a lot of players (like myself) had already decided on what we were going to play, just from the descriptions on the Holonet pages. And after messing around on the Sorcerer, lo and behold, I decided that I enjoy my BH more for now. Imagine that. (It doesn't help that I think the voice actors for both the male and female Inquisitor sucks. "Now I'll show you what a Sith can do!" Seriously, shut up.)

 

I don't think it's fair to say that every single sorc/sage rolled that way at launch because some beta testers thought it was OP.

[baltman]

What utility do Marauders provide that others can't do better?

 

1. Intimidating Roar - Sorcerers have the option to spec for a half duration version of this on a 20-second CD and it auto activates on bubble pop.

 

2. Force Joke - The worst stun in the entire game. It's channeled and lasts 3 seconds.

 

3. Force Charge(ball carrying I suppose) - Juggernauts carry the ball better.

 

4. Defensive CDs(This isn't utility unless you're carrying a ball) - Juggernauts carry the ball better.

 

5. Healing Debuff(20%) - This is the only legitimate use and considering the fact that it's far more effective to CC healers for a 100% healing reduction I don't think this will be all that big a deal. I guess you could take ONE marauder for it though.

 

6. Predation - 50% group speed buff. It's okay I suppose. It's overshadowed by Sorcerer speed buffs and Juggernaut+Sorcerer Intercede/Extricate chains that bring the ball to the goal in less than 5 GCDs though. Why run 50% faster when you can fly directly to the goal?

 

Straight from the horse's mouth above. Just because you claim someone else can do something or do it better, doesn't negate the utility your class has. And lets not leave "Defensive CDs" as only 1 point when there are multiple. Looks very similar if you add your interupt and explain each defensive cooldown. You may have more utility, but its more fun to attack other classes.

 

 

Sorcerers in hybrid CC heavy specs have the following CCs and defensive abilities...

 

1. 4 second 30yrd range stun with a 60s CD.

 

2. Force Slow.

 

3. A slow build into their main filler attack(Force Lightning).

 

5. Force Sprint, a 20(30 untalented) second cooldown 150% speed boost that is the best of it's kind.

 

6. A 20 second CD(shortest in the game) knockback.

 

7. A 5 second root attached to the above knockback.

 

8. A bubble that provides between 3.5-6.5k absorption. Since average health pools are on average about 16k this can be looked at as an instant 20%-40% health gain on a 20 second cooldown. They have light armor but this skill makes them far tankier than most DPS specced players in any situation where the players aren't receiving external heals for extended periods of time and even then it's pretty much outright better than heavy armor.

 

9. The above bubble has a 3 second AoE immobilize attached to it. This can be Pre-Cast and kept up 100% of the time as a preventive CC that activates when you need it(when your bubble breaks). This can also be pre-cast and Static Barrier can be clicked off manually for a 3 second on-demand AoE immobilize and then the Sorcerer may immediately recast it if timed well.

 

10. A 60s CD single target immobilize(whirlwind/force lift).

 

11. A 2s duration stun if the above immobilize is broken by damage.

 

12. A 12 second CD 30 yard range interrupt.

 

1. 4 second 30yrd range stun with a 60s CD.

 

2. Force Slow.

 

3. A slow build into their main filler attack(Force Lightning).

 

5. Force Sprint, a 20(30 untalented) second cooldown 150% speed boost that is the best of it's kind. That lasts for only 1.5 Seconds

 

6. A 20 second CD(shortest in the game) knockback plus 5 second root attached to the above knockback. 30 second cooldown

 

7. A bubble that provides between 3.2k absorption plus 3 second AoE immobilize attached to it.

 

8. A 60s CD single target immobilize(whirlwind/force lift). Full resolve bar, last resort, usually broken right away plus a 2s duration stun if the above immobilize is broken by damage.

 

9. A 12 second CD 30 yard range interrupt. Most if not all classes have an interupt

[Varicite]

Force Lightning is your filler. Our filler consists of Assault for building rage and Vicious Slash for dumping rage.

 

Force Lightning is a ranged ability. Assault/VS are melee. They are the closest things to compare.

 

Perhaps, but they still aren't comparable abilities, because of the drawbacks to both of them.

 

They may serve the same purpose, but in PvP, one is a LOT more dependable than the other to actually use effectively.

 

Especially when being focused.

[Tumri]

Straight from the horse's mouth above. Just because you claim someone else can do something or do it better, doesn't negate the utility your class has. And lets not leave "Defensive CDs" as only 1 point when there are multiple. Looks very similar if you add your interupt and explain each defensive cooldown. You may have more utility, but its more fun to attack other classes.[/b][/i]

 

My list on this thread was only CC/Control/Escape abilities. If you're counting EVERYTHING then I guess I could add some other utility that I previously chose to not include..

 

OP edited. Thanks for your input. I added 4 abilities I considered more of a utility than a defensive ability or a CC. Sorcerers are up to 16 total utility/defensive/cc abilities in total now.

[Datku]

Sorc story/assassin story = same. Amazing you didn't realize this when you played the two specs...

 

I hope you enjoyed your beta weekend where you leveled up characters *cough BS cough*.

 

 

Wow maybe what people say about you is true from this part of your response.

 

1.) The Sith Inquistor story is the same for Sorcs and Assassins. I never said I didn't like the story on my assassin. I didn't like the style of play. I understand that assassins can be rough till around 30 where they start to come into their own. I liked the SI story that is why I went back and tried a Sorc because I liked the SI story up to lvl 20ish. Played sorc to cap so I knew how easy it would be and quick to lvl up to cap at release. No class is hard to play the first 10 levels when you get your companion around lvl 6. Only one that was "tricky" was my trooper because you don't get your first companion till you finish the class quest. I knew Koriban so well when I finished my class quest on sorc I was almost lvl 11 and already a sorc

 

2.) Enjoyed much much more than a beta weekend. Actually enjoyed about 4 months of closed beta (went in around mid July). I leveled a BH, IA, Trooper, Smuggler, and Sorc during the beta run to mid 40's if not 50. Nice try though.

[Tumri]

Perhaps, but they still aren't comparable abilities, because of the drawbacks to both of them.

 

They may serve the same purpose, but in PvP, one is a LOT more dependable than the other to actually use effectively.

 

Especially when being focused.

 

They may serve the same purpose, but in PvP, one is a LOT more dependable than the other to actually use effectively.

 

Especially when out of melee range.

 

 

----

 

See what I did there?

[Datku]

 

OP edited. Thanks for your input. I added 4 abilities I considered more of a utility than a defensive ability or a CC. Sorcerers are up to 16 total utility/defensive/cc abilities in total now.

 

Don't forget they can buff their own main stat (ie stim pack) and have an instant heal as well (med pack)...