Caledric Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 That information was not given before. Knowing this then I will concede this it is griefing. so he is at the keyboard making fun of you? He won't be banned. Earlier you said he is completely afk and unresponsive though... so which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aribethx Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 so he is at the keyboard making fun of you? He won't be banned. Earlier you said he is completely afk and unresponsive though... so which is it? I assume you directed this question to the OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lendaugy Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 If that is all you plan to do, then please, explain to me why you would even be there to begin with, if not to grief other players? You can "Stealth" out in the open PvE world, why do you feel the need to do it in a competitive arena? Sounds like griefing to me...I am sure griefing would not be difficult to find in the EULA, since you want to get all big brained and technical about it. With pleasure... thats the problem, Theres no reward for Stealthing at my keyboard in a Pve environment... Untill bioware says something on this topic... people will continue to abuse the system.. They're using loop-holes... Alot of people think they are Botting, so they report it as Botting.. But infact they're not... they are at their keyboards, willingly not participating...So when a GM sends homeslice a message... and he gets a genuine response, the gm writes it off.... Atleast thats how i see it.. Example: They que up, enter a warzone.. go invis.. turn their head and watch tv... Free exp/cash/valor and coms. Free.. While they get too watch tv... Bioware needs to crack down and make public statment as to where they stand on this.. When they come out and say... Its against the rules... it will stop some people, but will raise more awareness and inturn cause more reportings, which in turn. would have more people banned for their "griefing" Or... people will continue to abuse the system... Sorry if that came across all " Big brained and technical" as you put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxCNOM Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Wait, there are seriously people on these boards that are defending someone queueing up for a PvP warzone, and then not participating? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lendaugy Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Wait, there are seriously people on these boards that are defending someone queueing up for a PvP warzone, and then not participating? Really? No... Go threw and read..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliddor Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 so he is at the keyboard making fun of you? He won't be banned. Earlier you said he is completely afk and unresponsive though... so which is it? That Sir, if an untrue statement. I assume you were referring to me but replied to the wrong person. Please re-read my post. I did not ever say he was "completely afk and unresponsive". I simply said he goes stealth on a ledge all game. He does.. and he taunts his team before it even starts. So please, stop trying to find technicalities to defend such bad behavior. There is no excuse for it and BioWare should address it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxCNOM Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 No... Go threw and read.....Read several pages, and what I saw were a handful of people saying "it doesn't say anywhere that it's against the rules." And a lot of people disagreeing with them, but still... even if it's not "against the rules," do people not have any sense of courtesy, decency, or integrity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Still awating your presentation of the rules where it says its a bannable offense General Rules and Guidelines from the ROC Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything to another player that is unwanted. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated. (See also “Harassment Policy” below.) Basically your voluntary refusal to participate is hampering every other player on your teams ability to enjoy the game, through purposeful misuse of game mechanics. Lets go down to the Harassment Policy Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players. Harassment is also any behavior that is incessant, inescapable, derogatory and directed specifically at you or your group. Before reporting, a genuine attempt to alleviate the situation should be made by leaving the area or the offending player, or asking them politely to stop. If a sincere attempt has been made to solve the problem and the offending player persists in the behavior, it should be reported. Behavior that is always considered harassment includes derogatory and/or hateful comments that are sexual, racist, religious, or related to gender or creed. A judgment of valid harassment can result in penalties placed on the harassing party up to and including immediate account closure, based on the severity of harassment and the player's past account history. Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy. Basically if you are AFKing in WZ or not participating simply to leech XP and it offends someone, it's harassment and ban-hammerable. Edited February 4, 2012 by Quantum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrven Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 point out in the eula and terms of service where hiding in a warzone is against the rules... Sadly its not right now so ppl are zoning into warzones finding a safe corner then going afk for the match to leech valor and xp from the group, forcing them to play down a team mbr and destroying the game for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Said player just left a Voidstar because people kept leaving as soon as they see him in their warzone. He left and logged out lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inseeisyou Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 If they punish him and he leaves the game, are you prepared to pay his $15 a month? Because that is what BW is worried about. Why do you think people get away with all sort of exploits (Ilum 1.1 anyone?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lythir Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 So griefing is a bannable offense? if i go camp a level 25 in tattoine on a pvp server, is that a bannable offense? afterall isnt that considered Griefing? It is never considered griefing to engage in pvp. Players have many ways to escape PVP they don't won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aribethx Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Read several pages, and what I saw were a handful of people saying "it doesn't say anywhere that it's against the rules." And a lot of people disagreeing with them, but still... even if it's not "against the rules," do people not have any sense of courtesy, decency, or integrity? It's problematic to include concepts of morality and value systems into PvP. There was a thread on this earlier with the /spit emote which turned out to be that no one cares about integrity, decency or courtesy in player vs. player environments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wessik Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 if lendaugy and otheres think it's ok to do nothing in a warzone then report it and let bioware sort it out... if he finds himself on the wrong end of a ban stick, so be it... i personally don't think bioware intended for warzones to be made so that someone could join it and do nothing in it and then get rewarded for it... he's making his choice by living on the edge of "what i feel i can do" and "playing the game as intended", and if the reports of others getting banned for doing the same thing are true, well then he's the one that gets burnt by it... if that happens, it'll be ironic because he doesn't want to play the game by choice, but in the end, he won't be able to play the game by choice either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrug Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 By not participating in the battle, you are considered "shaving points" for the other team and considered a traitor... Traitorship is reason for suspension/ban. Sorry the lawyer games don't work here. P.S. Your money also will not be refunded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxCNOM Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 It's problematic to include concepts of morality and value systems into PvP. There was a thread on this earlier with the /spit emote which turned out to be that no one cares about integrity, decency or courtesy in player vs. player environments.Well I think there is a difference between someone being offended by someone /spitting on them, and someone actually, measurably, detracting from another's game experience by putting their team at a disadvantage (in before all the people saying "then everyone who specs dps instead of healing is putting team at a disadvantage;" you know exactly what I mean). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadulator Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 lmao for months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aribethx Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Well I think there is a difference between someone being offended by someone /spitting on them, and someone actually, measurably, detracting from another's game experience by putting their team at a disadvantage (in before all the people saying "then everyone who specs dps instead of healing is putting team at a disadvantage;" you know exactly what I mean). Well, they are different methods, but at its base desire, aren't both actions concerned with negatively affecting another player or group of players' experience? I see what you are saying however. In my own mind, if you knowingly and deliberately seek to detract from another player's chance to win or enjoy the game, then you are a douchbaggins and must be exiled from the shire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliddor Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Said player just left a Voidstar because people kept leaving as soon as they see him in their warzone. He left and logged out lmao. Good to see HIM get frustrated for once. But TBH, the second most anoying this BW needs to fix is folks dropping from WZ with no penalty.. but let's not derail this thread for that discussion. Keep reporting him. I suppose that eventually BW will relaize it's costing them money (hundred of tickets processed) and will be simpler to address the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Just read the EULA People who purposefully slack in warzones, stealth and run around in circles or do nothing can be reported as they are breaking the rules Take screenshots, name and shame them on fleet, report ticket to Bioware They will get banned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y-Yorle Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Wait, there are seriously people on these boards that are defending someone queueing up for a PvP warzone, and then not participating? Really? No no no, while it may seem like that (I initially got that feeling as well), it's more about 'explaining' why or how it's possible people do this in WZs. In this case it is explained by (and most likely wrongly interpreted as being) the "defender" there is not a specific mentionings of these specific cases of gameplay in the EULA for SW:TOR on how this is considered bannable or not. Basically they're trying to dig into the mindset of why people with ill intend may be less inhibited in expressing this kind of behaviour in WZs. Not sure if there's an english version of it, but in the Netherlands we have a saying that translates to "the oppertunity creates the thief". By not having rules specific to the WZ afk case the 'thief' (being the afk'er) may be created by thinking "It's not in the EULA so they can't ban me". Of course when it comes down to this BioWare can literally ban anyone they want with given no reason at all. It's their game, and thus their rules. What I think it comes down to is that they're basically trying to bring a problem to light to which these 'defenders' would like to see a solution. They're being a profiler of sorts, but in the process get confused with the ones actually showing this behaviour (which isn't odd as you sort of have to become the person you're trying to describe). I hope that made sense, because it was complicated enough for me to formulate for myself already. If I am wrong there please correct me and also excuse any typo's I may have made. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 No no no, while it may seem like that (I initially got that feeling as well), it's more about 'explaining' why or how it's possible people do this in WZs. In this case it is explained by (and most likely wrongly interpreted as being) the "defender" there is not a specific mentionings of these specific cases of gameplay in the EULA for SW:TOR on how this is considered bannable or not. Basically they're trying to dig into the mindset of why people with ill intend may be less inhibited in expressing this kind of behaviour in WZs. Not sure if there's an english version of it, but in the Netherlands we have a saying that translates to "the oppertunity creates the thief". By not having rules specific to the WZ afk case the 'thief' (being the afk'er) may be created by thinking "It's not in the EULA so they can't ban me". Of course when it comes down to this BioWare can literally ban anyone they want with given no reason at all. It's their game, and thus their rules. What I think it comes down to is that they're basically trying to bring a problem to light to which these 'defenders' would like to see a solution. They're being a profiler of sorts, but in the process get confused with the ones actually showing this behaviour (which isn't odd as you sort of have to become the person you're trying to describe). I hope that made sense, because it was complicated enough for me to formulate for myself already. If I am wrong there please correct me and also excuse any typo's I may have made. xD But it is explained in the Rules of Conduct which covers, the Forums, and the Game (referred to as "Service"). Griefing is a form of harassment, and the RoC explicitly covers using game mechanics to harass players, and goes as far as to have a statement that being in a PvP environment is not an exemption from those rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morbidheresy Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 why can't they just do it like wow where if people report you afk a timer starts ticking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellatrix Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Finally some one busted out the rule-book.... Indeed, i agree.. however it says nothing about being Required to participate in a warzone... Then I would like to ask, why do you join the warzones? Is it just for pissing people off by doing nothing to help? Thus making the game less fun for them. Edited February 5, 2012 by Bellatrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekai Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I posted a response from a CSR in an e-mail, sadly my post was removed due to how the thread de-railed. But, it was stated in said e-mail, that player non participation is a violation, and they would investigate. Probably all I can type to avoid the eyes of the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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