Linearity and Easyness is getting annoying

[sevenex]

Run around with no gear. That should make thing's harder for you.

 

 

Yep, thanks that should fix the problem right up! Thanks for the help and may I just add that I am in awe of your wit!

 

 

/facepalm

[Surakis]

Yep, thanks that should fix the problem right up! Thanks for the help and may I just add that I am in awe of your wit!

 

His point is valid, folks min/max everything and then complain it's to easy.

[TheLightningLord]

What? Where is this quest? And removing elites and strongs from quests is exactly what makes it way too easy. There should be more elites and strongs for quests, you shouldn't cakewalk your way to 50.

 

It's not the same quests that's the problem... it's that there's one planet per level bracket and honestly the planets are dull and boring. The scenery in this game is beyond drab. Not to mention that it feels lifeless and plastic. Leveling in this game is atrocious. I have tried numerous times to start an alt, only to be bored out of my mind before level 10.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

Yep, thanks that should fix the problem right up! Thanks for the help and may I just add that I am in awe of your wit!

 

 

/facepalm

 

I know a game, and in this game people complained about how "Easy" thing's were. Now they kept talking about dumbing thing's down. So they made an expansion so hard it was nearly impossible to do content. It was very boring. They catered to people who wanted thing's "hardcore" then they lost two million sub's and dropped into losing sub's at a faster rate then they ever had before. That game is warcraft and it might still not recover from their worst expansion.

 

Because it annoys you. Doesn't make it "game breaking"

[Kypp]

It sounds like you prefer wow....so go play wow. IMO the 7 years i've played WoW it is so stale and boring and repetitive. I've levled every class to 85 except warrior and shaman. Yes you can level in diff zones but it is super easy now...and more linear than vanilla wow.(though vanilla wasn't better...sometimes you had trouble even finding quests)

 

After 7 years of WoW I find this game so refreshing. I have a 50 inquisitor taht I play and enjoy pvp and ilum haven't gotten into the end game flashpoints yet. I find I don't have enough time in the day to do everythign I want lol. I'm leveling through some republic toons and still enjoying it. So I guess this just isnt the game for you? I for one have dropped WoW like a bad habit and I'm enjoying this for now

Edited February 4, 2012 by Kypp

[Aegeryen]

I know a game, and in this game people complained about how "Easy" thing's were. Now they kept talking about dumbing thing's down. So they made an expansion so hard it was nearly impossible to do content. It was very boring. They catered to people who wanted thing's "hardcore" then they lost two million sub's and dropped into losing sub's at a faster rate then they ever had before. That game is warcraft and it might still not recover from their worst expansion.

 

Because it annoys you. Doesn't make it "game breaking"

 

Oh I agree with you , and I didnt think anything is gamebreaking for this game , I just dont like the comparisons to WoW at vanilla , its a different experience . And though I appreciate being able to answer the phone or door without fear of a 3 hour corpse recovery .A little tweeking of the end game instances would be nice .

 

Honestly I didn't pick up this game looking for a harder world of warcraft . I wanted a different feel , and so I have gotten that , but like every other a-----e I have my own opinions on whats lacking . Your opinion is its perfect .... good for you .

[Thorun]

That's not a solution.

 

That may not be a solution but that is how Bioware designed this game. They are betting on people rolling alts.

[PjPablo]

I know a game, and in this game people complained about how "Easy" thing's were. Now they kept talking about dumbing thing's down. So they made an expansion so hard it was nearly impossible to do content. It was very boring. They catered to people who wanted thing's "hardcore" then they lost two million sub's and dropped into losing sub's at a faster rate then they ever had before. That game is warcraft and it might still not recover from their worst expansion.

 

Because it annoys you. Doesn't make it "game breaking"

 

You do realize that most of those sub loses came from China and have nothing to do with Cataclysm, right?

 

And calling Cataclysm 'hardcore'? LOL That comment really points out how casual the player base is here.

[Minguss]

..This is not the MMORPG your looking for....

 

I agree with op. At face value it looks awesome but once you realize there aore pretty much no consequences to any action the story is moot.

[ArmchairMagpie]

I can't speak for him but leveling to 50 is a really really easy affair. I mean the experience practically rolls in through questing and bonus quests. It's not like you have to stay on top of your gear or anything. You can casually pick up a few pieces with commendations on whatever your planet is on and stay just under the top tier in gear mods (blue commendations vs purple playercrafted) and what have you.

 

Your companion all but eliminates the risk of death and if you do happen to die you can just self rez and be fully recovered in less than half a minute in the very spot you died at.

 

By easy I'd say "very little chance of failure" and "very little penalty if you do".

 

Of course, the normal questing game is relatively easy, aside from the few exceptions. Hence why I asked about what he has solo'd. Since I knew - levelling a healer and a tank as first characters - that this would be the case I looked for ways to keep the challenge high. I have had my fill of challenge so to speak. For instance in Taris, how many have actually solo'd Jedi Master Berr Irichmin while they were still in XP range? He was quite a challenge even for my over-geared Juggernaut. That's just one example, if lack of challenge is the issue then there is nothing stopping you to seek one for yourself.

I completely cleared Building a Better Beast on my own for instance at lvl35 since I couldn't find a group at all, it felt satisfying surveying the empty room and having earned quite some XP.

It is there where you can actually die easily to a mistake and your companion to the fact you couldn't keep aggro away from him.

Edited February 4, 2012 by ArmchairMagpie

[Pragvakten]

I've leveled to 50 now and am done with the story on my sith juggernaut. As mentioned many times around here the end game is severely lacking and quite boring, so I've decided to give it a chance to expand since people here seem to suggest its brand new so I shouldn't expect WoW's endgame after one month (crappy excuse considering we're in 2012 not 2004, but whatever...)

 

So since I still wish to play, I've rerolled (feels like Bioware cheering in the back saying "mission accomplished" for another reroller). It's hard to describe how linear and easy this game is. I'm going to the same planets, doing the same crap in the same exact order... Like my initial playthrough I'm constantly outleveling the zones I go through. Even WoW for all its flaws gave you the possibility to jump to different zones in completely different continents to level.

 

Instead I get, Hutta/Korriban (oooooh choice see...)-DK-Balmorra-Nar Shaddaa-Tatooine-Alderaan-Taris-Quesh-Hoth-Belsavis-Voss and Corellia. The VO for every single quest is sort of stupid too the second time around, there is no reason to listen to it besides for choosing the appropriate LS/DS choice for your build. The class story is the only positive and even it is getting stale since none of the choices you make matter anyway. Why can't I kill my companion if I don't like him or if he betrays me? Why can't I go against what is asked of me and do something completely different? Thought this was a story based MMO, yet I can't decide anything, I'm just being guided and can decide to be an obedient watchdog or disrespectful douche.

 

This would all be ok if it actually took some time to get to level cap. But it does not, it is incredibly easy to just solo to 50 in a short time. I realize WoW is the same now, but in Vanilla it took time to get to 60, it felt like an accomplishment. On my sith jug I dinged it on Voss... (a planet that I completely outleveled at the time so the content was trivial).

 

Anyways had to rant this out, sorry, but.... thoughts?

 

Has this game delivered more choice then any other mmorpg?

I would say yes.

Is this the first completely voice acted mmorpg?

I think so.

Are you upset because your unreasonable demands for player freedom is not being met in a game not tailor made for just one storyline?

Yes I think you are.

This is the most story thick mmorpg to date, according to me.

Oh and on another note: "...so I shouldn't expect WoW's endgame after one month (crappy excuse considering we're in 2012 not 2004, but whatever...)"

How you lack to see that the graphics, the voice acting and the diversity of content far surpasses Wow and may affect certain parts of other areas is beyond me.

Maybe Blizzard had more time to wrap up their endgame quicker due to the fact that they did not need to produce several gigabyte of voice acting material? Or introducing a completely new game mechanic such as group conversation?

If you are unhappy with the priorities of Bioware feel free to leave at any time and let Blizzard know that a game need not produce groundbreaking material to get your business.

The hardcore mmorpg raiders may flame but those of us who have actually have played rpg games enough to value plots, story, skilled voice acting, etc will hopefully stay around.

[Wileekyote]

This game is a lot more linear than WoW, in WoW you can choose to skip zones entirely if you out level them via some other means, multiple starting areas, PvP or dungeon level entirely if you like. You can't skip zones in this game due to the fact that you HAVE to complete class quests to progress.

 

I don't hate this game, I played in beta and didn't figure it would have the long term draw WoW would. I had fun leveling my first toon to 50, grinding Battlemaster and getting a set of Rakata gear. I have started multiple alts but I start losing interest in the mid 30's. I doubt I will re-sub past Feb unless they somehow show something in a future patch that's interesting. Not going back to WoW either.

 

I predicted before and still predict that this game will go FTP with in 6 months, MMOs in general are all on the decline.

[Criosdh]

It's not the same quests that's the problem... it's that there's one planet per level bracket and honestly the planets are dull and boring. The scenery in this game is beyond drab. Not to mention that it feels lifeless and plastic. Leveling in this game is atrocious. I have tried numerous times to start an alt, only to be bored out of my mind before level 10.

 

Actually alot of the quests are the same. The main class quests/storyline are different but the bulk of the quests (side quests, etc) have ended up being the same thing for me across 3 classes so far.

 

The lack of variation in places to level is an unfortunate side effect of quest based leveling. In games like DAoC there were multitudes of places you could level at any level range simply because all that required was a few places with same level mob spawns.

 

In quest based gaming if you're going to be able to level from 10-20 on Corruscant, Nar Shadda OR Taris you're going to have to write quests/content for that entire level on range on each of those planets. Writing quests, coding their triggers/etc, all that kind of jazz takes infinite more work than just creating a place to farm mobs.

 

I myself am not a fan of quest based leveling. Spending the majority of my time on a mount or speeder racing to the next X on the map is no less monantenous to me than farming boulderlings at PK bridge (boo ya! hit ya with that DAoC nostalgia right there!).

 

So yeah, as long as the MMO market continues to be obsessed with single player storylines in their MMO they will continue to get a very linear and limited leveling process.

 

Of course, the normal questing game is relatively easy, aside from the few exceptions. Hence why I asked about what he has solo'd. Since I knew - levelling a healer and a tank as first characters - that this would be the case I looked for ways to keep the challenge high. I have had my fill of challenge so to speak. For instance in Taris, how many have actually solo'd Jedi Master Berr Irichmin while they were still in XP range? He was quite a challenge even for my over-geared Juggernaut. That's just one example, if lack of challenge is the issue then there is nothing stopping you to seek one for yourself.

I completely cleared Building a Better Beast on my own for instance at lvl35 since I couldn't find a group at all, it felt satisfying surveying the empty room and having earned quite some XP.

It is there where you can actually die easily to a mistake and your companion to the fact you couldn't keep aggro away from him.

 

 

I understand what you mean. I don't know that I can agree, but I do know where you are coming from. I don't think actively seeking out a challenge by using the content inappropriately (I don't mean like wrong, I mean by trying it early or trying it as "unintended") is necessarily an acceptable way of getting challenge out of a genre that has more and more shifted to easy mode. Those flashpoints/etc are also a very small portion of the leveling process unless you do them over and over so even if it was acceptable it would only help with a small fraction of the problem.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Criosdh

[Tocaseven]

you have a 50 ready for when the game gets out off beta , cheer up.

[LeonBraun]

So what mmos out there doesn't make you go through the exact same quests when levelling alts?

 

Like many have said... leveling in WoW can take radically different paths... The 1-60 certainly, Outlands sucked though for sure, but Northrend and Cata content, the leveling paths could be quite different...

 

On my main in WoW, I never even did Deepholm (in Cata) and never did Zul'drak or Icecrown in Wrath and they're major zones in that game. I did those later with alts, and on my main for the Loremaster achievement.

 

In early WoW content I leveled my human warrior through the elven areas to get rep with them and get a cat mount, which was harder to do back in the day.

Edited February 4, 2012 by LeonBraun

[Tigrakis]

I've leveled to 50 now and am done with the story on my sith juggernaut. As mentioned many times around here the end game is severely lacking and quite boring, so I've decided to give it a chance to expand since people here seem to suggest its brand new so I shouldn't expect WoW's endgame after one month (crappy excuse considering we're in 2012 not 2004, but whatever...)

 

So since I still wish to play, I've rerolled (feels like Bioware cheering in the back saying "mission accomplished" for another reroller). It's hard to describe how linear and easy this game is. I'm going to the same planets, doing the same crap in the same exact order... Like my initial playthrough I'm constantly outleveling the zones I go through. Even WoW for all its flaws gave you the possibility to jump to different zones in completely different continents to level.

 

Instead I get, Hutta/Korriban (oooooh choice see...)-DK-Balmorra-Nar Shaddaa-Tatooine-Alderaan-Taris-Quesh-Hoth-Belsavis-Voss and Corellia. The VO for every single quest is sort of stupid too the second time around, there is no reason to listen to it besides for choosing the appropriate LS/DS choice for your build. The class story is the only positive and even it is getting stale since none of the choices you make matter anyway. Why can't I kill my companion if I don't like him or if he betrays me? Why can't I go against what is asked of me and do something completely different? Thought this was a story based MMO, yet I can't decide anything, I'm just being guided and can decide to be an obedient watchdog or disrespectful douche.

 

This would all be ok if it actually took some time to get to level cap. But it does not, it is incredibly easy to just solo to 50 in a short time. I realize WoW is the same now, but in Vanilla it took time to get to 60, it felt like an accomplishment. On my sith jug I dinged it on Voss... (a planet that I completely outleveled at the time so the content was trivial).

 

Anyways had to rant this out, sorry, but.... thoughts?

 

 

I guess that it all depends on what does each person expect from such a game.

 

Even if my character is not 50 yet , i am confident that i can't be disappointed : i have a moderate interest for "what happens at level 50".

 

My plan with swtor is to level up 2-3 characters and stop (then wait for upcoming expansions). All i care about is to see the alternative stories , try out a few classes both republic and empire. Most likely it will be just a jedi counselor and then a sith warrior.

 

 

I have very recently (end of dec 2011) reached to level 85 in Wow , and it became somewhat boring for me : i don't have enough patience to spend time with replaying the same stuff over and over again ... For me swtor is a welcome switch away from Wow.

 

It is true that Wow seems to be successful with introducing new stuff from time to time , so that the players are given new activities to spend/waste time with. For example people are currently crazy with transmog ... And with Pandaria everyone will be crazy with collecting and training new companions for the pet duels.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Tigrakis

[krameriffic]

I do think it comes down to a matter of opinion. I detested leveling alts in WOW. My first toon was fun because of the newness but by the time I got to alt land I ended up giving up the game. (Lasted three months).

 

Here I already have 6 characters going and even with the repeated content it just doesn't feel like as much of a chore as WOW did.

 

Comparing the leveling between the games is not easy when one game is so old and one game is brand new. Of course leveling feels fresher in this game; you haven't played 60 squintillion hours of it like an 8 year veteran of WoW has. If you'd leveled a new character after 4.0 came out in WoW, you'd realize how much better is now than it used to be. I took a paladin and a warrior from 1-80 in the time between the release of 4.0 and the release of Cataclysm. This was 6 years and 2 other max level characters since Vanilla WoW days. They both felt quite different for a pair of reasons: I went through COMPLETELY different zones in the old world and they were on opposite factions.

 

A fascinating shortcut SWTOR has taken with the main story on each planet is to make them be about exactly the same thing. On Nar Shaddaa, both factions are battling gangs. Tatooine, both main storylines converge at the Rakatan artifact in the Czerka base, going as far as having exactly the same final mission and resolution. On Alderaan, you're just on opposite sides of the civil war (Thul vs. Organa), and once again both stories converge at killing Bouris Ulgo. The same applies even to Taris and Balmorra in spite of the fact that they are 15 levels separated between the too factions. It continues on Belsavis, Voss and Corellia.

 

On some planets, it makes sense. Being on the two factions of the proxy war on Alderaan is pretty cool. But having the keystone quest be the same *********** thing is just lazy and a huge letdown because it makes all of the buildup to it feel token and unimportant. Other planets, like Tatooine, just shouldn't have the same story between the two sides. It doesn't connect in any way to the overarching war between the factions and it's just a cynical attempt by the developers to do as little work as possible. Taris and Balmorra are disputed worlds, so it feels pretty cool I suppose, though it does seem like you're just undoing what you did on your other character.

 

Leveling multiple characters through Outland and Northrend can be a chore, but that's why they so drastically reduced the XP needed. You can actually branch off a fair bit between too characters because you don't need to visit all the zones. HFP, Zangar and Terrokar are pretty much required, but then you can choose between Nagrand, Blade's Edge, Netherstorm and Shadowmoon. With Northrend, you can start at either Howling Fjord or Borean Tundra, then they converge for Dragonblight, but again, you can pretty much take your pick out of Grizzly Hills, Zul'Drak, Sholazar, Storm Peaks and Icecrown.

 

The Cataclysm zones do not yet afford you any options aside from the first zone: Hyjal or Vashj'ir, but that may change when they drop the 80-85 XP requirements after Mists of Pandaria. But the only choices you have in SWTOR are whether or not to do the bonus series', so it's about as linear as it gets. This is not to mention the viability and fun of doing the new low level instances throughout the game for leveling. You get a buttload of XP, and the refurbished dungeons are typically much better than they used to be. FPs in SWTOR don't tend to give you that much XP, and they are much more difficult to integrate into the leveling seamlessly due to the lack of an LFD tool. Whether or not you agree that this is a good thing is another argument entirely.

 

Ultimately, these are just details. The major point is that you are not viewing these games on equal footing if you flat out think that leveling in WoW is boring and stupid while SWTOR is awesome and eternally interesting. If you're still playing SWTOR in 5 years and the leveling process is pretty much the same, you'll think exactly the same thing about it. You'll be spacebarring through all the quests because repeatedly doing the same thing cannot stay interesting forever no matter how gussied up it is with voice acting and cutscenes.

Edited February 4, 2012 by krameriffic

[VorpalK]

That's not a solution.

 

Sure it is. It might not be a solution you like, but it works for many.

[Thorun]

This game is a lot more linear than WoW, in WoW you can choose to skip zones entirely if you out level them via some other means, multiple starting areas, PvP or dungeon level entirely if you like. You can't skip zones in this game due to the fact that you HAVE to complete class quests to progress.

 

I don't hate this game, I played in beta and didn't figure it would have the long term draw WoW would. I had fun leveling my first toon to 50, grinding Battlemaster and getting a set of Rakata gear. I have started multiple alts but I start losing interest in the mid 30's. I doubt I will re-sub past Feb unless they somehow show something in a future patch that's interesting. Not going back to WoW either.

 

I predicted before and still predict that this game will go FTP with in 6 months, MMOs in general are all on the decline.

 

6 months FTP? even if it was going FTP it would take a minimum of 6 months to get it ready for you. They just dont flip a swtich and stop charging a fee.

 

Easy fanbois i dont think its going FTP. I want this game to succeed. EA stock holder.

[Criosdh]

6 months FTP? even if it was going FTP it would take a minimum of 6 months to get it ready for you. They just dont flip a swtich and stop charging a fee.

 

Easy fanbois i dont think its going FTP. I want this game to succeed. EA stock holder.

 

 

I dunno. Either Turbine was flat out lying about there being no plans for LotRO to go F2P or either they pretty much made the swap in a week or so.

[Scan]

Welcome to five weeks ago..

 

..and then everyone was posting things like "reroll", "Dont spacebar", "do pvp" etc etc.

 

I said back then you will see the slower players post this stuff soon enough and here we are.

 

<3 Vindication.

[Shingara]

Lets be brutal here, the game is new. the experience you get from the game is what you expect from it. Alot of people have over inflated expectations of what the game can actually deliver.

 

Of course there is a linear aspect of the game but thats to be expected with a themepark game, remember pre launch and people like myself were asking for a big sandbox element to the game and we got shouted down none stop that this is a themepark and a themepark only.

 

But now people are starting to understand the stand point that we were going from. Themepark is great but themepark has the limits restricted based upon how much sandbox is actualy envolped into the big idea.

 

Now sit down and calm down. they can only make so many changes within a specfic time frame. We all know this game has greatness within it and no matter how many people cry, we have more then enough for the time being to keep us busy. If people get bored is that due to them burning themselves out or something more.

 

The game itself has alot of scope and yes im going to say this, it has more scope then wow does. It simply has this based on the geometric design of the worlds and the seperate aspects involved in the game and that would be space.

 

If you dont like space that doesnt desolve the fact that this element is within the game. But the fact remains that no one and i mean no one has totaly unlocked crafting, has totaly unlocked all endgame and has completed all nightmare modes.

 

We have a vast array of dungeons with mulitple hardness levels and if your expecting everything tommorow your not going to get it, but invest your time in your chars and have patience which is lacking in alot of players these days wanting there quick fix and support this game and we shall see big things from it.

 

Bioware/EA not only have the money to pull this off but also have the talent to pulls this off, im not being a fanboi saying this. Infact im being a realist. Bioware have not yet broken a promise. They have gone headlong into developing content. the speed isnt uber but the speed is good at which the rate of content is coming.

 

As such the linearity in this game has to be accepted based on the fact that the pro themepark guys and girls shouted it to be as such. Let the game evolve and we shall have something in 6 months that not only cover major aspects of what people want but also a balance between them that should please both camps.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Shingara

[Thugtwo_onethree]

easy? so how is a lvl 10 getting a quest where he fights a lvl 15 champion, maybe equal to a lvl 20 to 25 easy???

 

other games learned from this and removed elites strongs etc... from questing so people will do the quests, BW hasn't

 

If you remove the elites, champs, its like removing all group quests, then you got the same old argument of it being a single player game.

 

Really, people are just confused these days.

 

Who does that?

[Goretzu]

I

So since I still wish to play, I've rerolled (feels like Bioware cheering in the back saying "mission accomplished" for another reroller). It's hard to describe how linear and easy this game is. I'm going to the same planets, doing the same crap in the same exact order... Like my initial playthrough I'm constantly outleveling the zones I go through. Even WoW for all its flaws gave you the possibility to jump to different zones in completely different continents to level.

 

 

I think this is a problem, and I guess it's down to the voice acting, limiting the amount of content they can produce at any time (and in any given time scale).

 

 

I wonder if they could put in optional zones WITHOUT VOICE ACTING to allow a bit of deviation in the levelling process. A bit like the bonus quests, but rather alternate for the same levels.

[juleanden]

it was never hard to lvl in vanilla it was a cakewalk like swtor is, atleast swtor makes lvling another toon more fun since you got movies you can see or not, but you got the option, wow vanilla was just a grind to 60 and notting more.