Never have I tried so hard to like a game

[Wythias]

I first started playing on the 1st of january, but after a week I had to take a month long break to keep myself from going crazy. I got to 41, and after the second, or third day I had to force myself to play every minute that I did because of how much of a chore it was. In games with less story, and that are less innovative I have had no trouble getting to cap without feeling like I am pulling teeth... but not in this game. Well I won't go into big detail on this, but just wanted to let you know that I had too do that with playing very little.

 

I bought a new PC for this game, and was so excited with every announcement with every MMO I have played I always wished that I could get a more immersive, and better story telling experience with an MMO, and SWTOR brings that, however the leveling process is just so dull to me. I cam back a few days ago because of how much I just want to like this game. I want to love this game so much, but I still feel that it's just so dull, and more grind than an eastern MMO. I feel like the reward for effort per hour is much much much much much much less compared to other MMOs. For the past few days I rolled a new toon a jedi consular > shadow, and after the nightmare my Marauder had while leveling on level with the quests to 41 while skipping all group quests, and everything else I made 100% sure I would be above the level for all the quests. At the moment my shadow is 30, and just hit Tatooine, and all the PvP / Space battles I have done is so ridiculous. I try to sometimes find a group for a quest, but it's almost impossible, and it's even less likely to find a group for a flash point.

 

I feel like head butting my keyboard after every republic loss in PvP because I swear for every 10 BGs I do I end up winning 1... You can say "Obviously it's you!" all you want, but theres no way a single person can drag a group down like that in BGs, and besides I actually know what to do, unlike most. I even rerolled my shadow on a PVE server because of the 20+ gankings per planet I got on my Marauder. I only got from 26 to 28 on Nar Shadaa, and that's what really spurred all this rage because I just spent a looooooong time grinding space battles, and BGs getting from 28-30... I tried over, and over to get a Mandalorian group to no avail... I have never in my life felt like an MMO is a job, but this is actually starting to feel like one, because once again like a month before I am having to force myself to log on. I am going to continue giving this game a chance however, mainly because of how much I loved Kotor, all bio-ware games, and the star wars genre... but there is only so much torture I can take before I finally uninstall. Worst comes to worst I will level every class to 30, then quit so I can at least experience the most fun part of the game...

 

Before anyone accuses me of being an MMO noob realize this...

(In Order)

FFXI - Level capped characters did tons of end game

Ragnarok Online - Level capped characters did tons of end game

WoW - Level capped characters raided for 5 years before 4.2 killed it for me.

 

I played each of those game for many, many, many years, and in no way are they easy mode games (hate all you want we both know it's not true.) So I am not new to MMOs, and I am not new to bio-ware games, so I have no clue why I get so sick of this game at the point of 30. I am not going to BG, or Space Battle any more past this point, so I hope all of the extra experience I have gotten keeps me ahead for the run, because if not I am definitely out.

 

Just had to vent on here, because I am sooooo exhausted right now like I have never been before playing a VIDEO *GAME*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JeremyDale]

I first started playing on the 1st of january, but after a week I had to take a month long break to keep myself from going crazy. I got to 41, and after the second, or third day I had to force myself to play every minute that I did because of how much of a chore it was. In games with less story, and that are less innovative I have had no trouble getting to cap without feeling like I am pulling teeth... but not in this game. Well I won't go into big detail on this, but just wanted to let you know that I had too do that with playing very little.

 

I bought a new PC for this game, and was so excited with every announcement with every MMO I have played I always wished that I could get a more immersive, and better story telling experience with an MMO, and SWTOR brings that, however the leveling process is just so dull to me. I cam back a few days ago because of how much I just want to like this game. I want to love this game so much, but I still feel that it's just so dull, and more grind than an eastern MMO. I feel like the reward for effort per hour is much much much much much much less compared to other MMOs. For the past few days I rolled a new toon a jedi consular > shadow, and after the nightmare my Marauder had while leveling on level with the quests to 41 while skipping all group quests, and everything else I made 100% sure I would be above the level for all the quests. At the moment my shadow is 30, and just hit Tatooine, and all the PvP / Space battles I have done is so ridiculous. I try to sometimes find a group for a quest, but it's almost impossible, and it's even less likely to find a group for a flash point.

 

I feel like head butting my keyboard after every republic loss in PvP because I swear for every 10 BGs I do I end up winning 1... You can say "Obviously it's you!" all you want, but theres no way a single person can drag a group down like that in BGs, and besides I actually know what to do, unlike most. I even rerolled my shadow on a PVE server because of the 20+ gankings per planet I got on my Marauder. I only got from 26 to 28 on Nar Shadaa, and that's what really spurred all this rage because I just spent a looooooong time grinding space battles, and BGs getting from 28-30... I tried over, and over to get a Mandalorian group to no avail... I have never in my life felt like an MMO is a job, but this is actually starting to feel like one, because once again like a month before I am having to force myself to log on. I am going to continue giving this game a chance however, mainly because of how much I loved Kotor, all bio-ware games, and the star wars genre... but there is only so much torture I can take before I finally uninstall. Worst comes to worst I will level every class to 30, then quit so I can at least experience the most fun part of the game...

 

Before anyone accuses me of being an MMO noob realize this...

(In Order)

FFXI - Level capped characters did tons of end game

Ragnarok Online - Level capped characters did tons of end game

WoW - Level capped characters raided for 5 years before 4.2 killed it for me.

 

I played each of those game for many, many, many years, and in no way are they easy mode games (hate all you want we both know it's not true.) So I am not new to MMOs, and I am not new to bio-ware games, so I have no clue why I get so sick of this game at the point of 30. I am not going to BG, or Space Battle any more past this point, so I hope all of the extra experience I have gotten keeps me ahead for the run, because if not I am definitely out.

 

Just had to vent on here, because I am sooooo exhausted right now like I have never been before playing a VIDEO *GAME*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Your post was a little long Wythias so I admit I skimmed it. But I think I agree with at least some of what you are saying.

 

This game does get boring fast - especially after you hit 50 and there is nothing to do but grind the same old daily quests or repeat the same instances if your friends are online and in the mood.

 

I did have a reasonably fun time though leveling up. But the pace of it it moved too quickly than I would have liked, and that ruined some of my enjoyment.

[Kakarris]

I have the same issue. I won't play for weeks some times because I just can't bring myself to the grind. I enjoy the class story but after 30 there is very little of it and everything else is kill X amount of these, or gather/destroy X amount of these and repeat. Over and over on every planet.

 

The game needs some variety in it's quests. Some puzzles, some bombing runs, some racing, anything! Leveling really is a chore.

[Traumahawk]

I have the same issue. I won't play for weeks some times because I just can't bring myself to the grind. I enjoy the class story but after 30 there is very little of it and everything else is kill X amount of these, or gather/destroy X amount of these and repeat. Over and over on every planet.

 

The game needs some variety in it's quests. Some puzzles, some bombing runs, some racing, anything! Leveling really is a chore.

 

My personal experience:

 

It's like I hit an "interest" brick wall at around level 35. After leveling my main character, I get kind of interested in alts, but things start getting stale and agonizing somewhere in the middle of Alderaan. After that, I can barely bring myself to play. So I've got about 5 alts, average level of 34, all logged out in some cave somewhere--dead. It always ends the same...fighting the same pack of mobs I saw on DK, start to realize that I have umpteen more quests and fights just like this...eyes start to glaze over...I lose all care and want, and dive headfirst into a pack of elites. Smile and log off.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Traumahawk

[darthdoll]

I loved every lvl. Did not even feel like a grind at all.

[Rotsu]

Guess i'll bite..

 

I'm not sure if your just feeling the drag by trying to cap out real fast or what. I can't say this is the most grindy MMO i've played, to me, far from it. while it may take more travel time between some things i've found the leveling process moderately paced.

 

Some chuncks of time are taken up by the VO'ed scenes etc. but rarely do i have to return to an area after i've killed 15 something to actually do the "story" part of a quest, thats wrapped up in quest bonuses (Which i must say is a pretty good way Bioware did it, same thing, but i can do it while i do the meat and taters of the quest.)

 

I've spent a good chunk of time since release minus work time (I work my 40 hours in a little over 3 days, which means i can give a solid chunck of time on my days off. two 16 shifts and an 8 for non-math'ers)

 

The story lines can bog down, but between a few space combat dailies, a couple FPs and finishing all class quests and almost all base quests per planet and 1 or 2 Bonus quests on a planet here and there (skipped a ton of heroic quests, Night owl play times are a toughie for groups) i easily got to lvl 46 while upping an alt to 33, two 25s and a slew of 5-15s that may or may not still exsist)

 

I say none of this to judge, troll or say "You're doing it wrong" (man that one annys me) Just to show you my experience.

 

My experience has so far been to "Look at the journey, then end always comes sooner then you want it to" I'll cap it out, and pvp and raid and all that will be fun, when i'm there. When ever that happens is when i'll worry about it.

 

Whatever you choose to do, hope you enjoy it

[Hellraged]

I loved every lvl. Did not even feel like a grind at all.

 

agreed on this, this game isnt a grind AT ALL.

!!

[Senatsu]

In WoW the content has been reused over and over again since TBC, the only difference is the boss name, boss look and the arena you fight him on.

Ever since TBC WoW has gotten more and more terrible, I'll give you 2 years of end-game content that was actually good (Vanilla was so unbalanced and buggy it felt like Blizzard wasn't even working for 99% of the time). WotLK was a joke; Ulduar was the only good thing to come out of that expansion and Blizzard did a good job of introducing heroic mode fights, but ofc they nerfed that (now you just press a button GG Blizz). They f'ed up big time with LFD, tried to redeem themselves with Cataclysm, but failed horribly after the 2 beginning raids (nerfz time!). Whoever came up with LFR and LFD needs to be shot, they aren't all that's wrong with WoW, but good god, removing those features would do a ton towards dragging it from the bottom of the barrel.

 

You compare a 7 year old game that got famous just because it was so easy, to a 1 and a half month old game that drew most people in because of it's RPG elements. If you really believe that WoW was hard, then it was you who was the problem in FPs and WZs.

[Wythias]

In WoW the content has been reused over and over again since TBC, the only difference is the boss name, boss look and the arena you fight him on.

Ever since TBC WoW has gotten more and more terrible, I'll give you 2 years of end-game content that was actually good (Vanilla was so unbalanced and buggy it felt like Blizzard wasn't even working for 99% of the time). WotLK was a joke; Ulduar was the only good thing to come out of that expansion and Blizzard did a good job of introducing heroic mode fights, but ofc they nerfed that (now you just press a button GG Blizz). They f'ed up big time with LFD, tried to redeem themselves with Cataclysm, but failed horribly after the 2 beginning raids (nerfz time!). Whoever came up with LFR and LFD needs to be shot, they aren't all that's wrong with WoW, but good god, removing those features would do a ton towards dragging it from the bottom of the barrel.

 

You compare a 7 year old game that got famous just because it was so easy, to a 1 and a half month old game that drew most people in because of it's RPG elements. If you really believe that WoW was hard, then it was you who was the problem in FPs and WZs.

 

I started playing WoW in 06, and that means I did all of BC. Also that's so hyperbolic saying every little bit of WoW was so easy from Wrath to current cata. There were plenty of places that were challenging, and imo WoW snowballed from it's popularity, not from it's easiness. Honestly I am so 50/50 on responding to your post that I can't believe I actually am.

[Thelooney]

I'm no stranger to power leveling, and on WoW I'm an unabashed alt-oholic on any RPG type game I get my hands on. Yet, even though I know SWTOR's 1-10 can be done in 3 or so hours...I just can't bear to start another alt right now. Granted, I do have several lvl 10+. But from what I feel, it's not just the linear fashion in which the leveling happens, but the lack of variety in locale.

 

You know when you play a game enough, you begin to see much more of the faults. Things that you overlooked earlier are glaring issues. One (of quite a few) of those issue that really hampers the leveling, is the inability to travel without having to fight everywhere. You go in a cave, you have to have an encounter every 10 paces because there's no room to move around. You're traveling on your mount, and you (invariably) come to a tightening of the road, be it from walls or mountains, or other impassible element. or you're just traveling to your mission objective, then BAM, something hiding underground dismounts you.

 

This forced encounters are something I can really do without. WoW did an amazing job in this regard, in that so long as you stick to the road, your chance at making contact with enemy mob is almost nil. As it stands in swtor, it sometimes takes me close to an hour to finish ONE mission not because the mission is long and involved, but because of these stops.

[Wythias]

Guess i'll bite..

 

I'm not sure if your just feeling the drag by trying to cap out real fast or what. I can't say this is the most grindy MMO i've played, to me, far from it. while it may take more travel time between some things i've found the leveling process moderately paced.

 

Some chuncks of time are taken up by the VO'ed scenes etc. but rarely do i have to return to an area after i've killed 15 something to actually do the "story" part of a quest, thats wrapped up in quest bonuses (Which i must say is a pretty good way Bioware did it, same thing, but i can do it while i do the meat and taters of the quest.)

 

I've spent a good chunk of time since release minus work time (I work my 40 hours in a little over 3 days, which means i can give a solid chunck of time on my days off. two 16 shifts and an 8 for non-math'ers)

 

The story lines can bog down, but between a few space combat dailies, a couple FPs and finishing all class quests and almost all base quests per planet and 1 or 2 Bonus quests on a planet here and there (skipped a ton of heroic quests, Night owl play times are a toughie for groups) i easily got to lvl 46 while upping an alt to 33, two 25s and a slew of 5-15s that may or may not still exsist)

 

I say none of this to judge, troll or say "You're doing it wrong" (man that one annys me) Just to show you my experience.

 

My experience has so far been to "Look at the journey, then end always comes sooner then you want it to" I'll cap it out, and pvp and raid and all that will be fun, when i'm there. When ever that happens is when i'll worry about it.

 

Whatever you choose to do, hope you enjoy it

 

 

You by far make the most sense. The only thing is mentally I set a task to hit that day, and then play until my fingers bleed every extra second that I have to hit that mark. I wish I could not do it, but I am not sure how. If it was a single player game I could definitely take it smooth sailing, and have fun with it slow pace leveling. However I don't know why, but when I am playing an MMO I feel so competitive with everyone, and every time I hear someone bragging about how fast they leveled, or how easy something was, I have to go do it full power to prove that I am as good as they are. One of the many reasons why I am starting to fall out of love with MMOs, and Swtor is really "My only hope." had to put that gem in there.

[Daedricshots]

The game slows down around tatooine. Cant put my finger on why though, maybe because i just hate leveling. Not just in this game but all mmos.

[Wythias]

I'm no stranger to power leveling, and on WoW I'm an unabashed alt-oholic on any RPG type game I get my hands on. Yet, even though I know SWTOR's 1-10 can be done in 3 or so hours...I just can't bear to start another alt right now. Granted, I do have several lvl 10+. But from what I feel, it's not just the linear fashion in which the leveling happens, but the lack of variety in locale.

 

You know when you play a game enough, you begin to see much more of the faults. Things that you overlooked earlier are glaring issues. One (of quite a few) of those issue that really hampers the leveling, is the inability to travel without having to fight everywhere. You go in a cave, you have to have an encounter every 10 paces because there's no room to move around. You're traveling on your mount, and you (invariably) come to a tightening of the road, be it from walls or mountains, or other impassible element. or you're just traveling to your mission objective, then BAM, something hiding underground dismounts you.

 

This forced encounters are something I can really do without. WoW did an amazing job in this regard, in that so long as you stick to the road, your chance at making contact with enemy mob is almost nil. As it stands in swtor, it sometimes takes me close to an hour to finish ONE mission not because the mission is long and involved, but because of these stops.

 

 

Yeah I definitely know how you feel there, I remember on my Marauder that I felt like kicking my monitor every time someone popped out of the ground, and knocked me off my mount. Though while in an area near a quest, I don't mind the little bit of extra experience, but while traveling... super annoying.

[Traumahawk]

In WoW the content has been reused over and over again since TBC, the only difference is the boss name, boss look and the arena you fight him on.

Ever since TBC WoW has gotten more and more terrible, I'll give you 2 years of end-game content that was actually good (Vanilla was so unbalanced and buggy it felt like Blizzard wasn't even working for 99% of the time). WotLK was a joke; Ulduar was the only good thing to come out of that expansion and Blizzard did a good job of introducing heroic mode fights, but ofc they nerfed that (now you just press a button GG Blizz). They f'ed up big time with LFD, tried to redeem themselves with Cataclysm, but failed horribly after the 2 beginning raids (nerfz time!). Whoever came up with LFR and LFD needs to be shot, they aren't all that's wrong with WoW, but good god, removing those features would do a ton towards dragging it from the bottom of the barrel.

 

You compare a 7 year old game that got famous just because it was so easy, to a 1 and a half month old game that drew most people in because of it's RPG elements. If you really believe that WoW was hard, then it was you who was the problem in FPs and WZs.

 

I take the stance that BOTH games (and in most cases all current MMOs) are lacking and should aspire to a higher standard. By the time I left WoW (as a GL of a successful PvE guild) I hated it so much that I spit fire when the name was even mentioned. I still have no love for it, though I must painfully acknowledge that the combat was smooth--not necessarily praising the actual abilities or how you use them--but the mechanical interaction was fairly polished. I also saw that in Rift, though again, I didn't find it engaging enough to keep playing.

 

I know that a lot of so-called "haters" are just inarticulate players that are genuinely disappointed with what they thought SWTOR would be. However, like the last throes of a crumbling relationship, we all hold on to the notion that there is a tiny chance it will all work out in the end. It's also like a cafeteria food fight at times. Sure, it starts off with you saying it's beneath you to toss a tomato across the room, but by the time its reached a frenzy, you are helpless to ignore the primal instinct to engage in the melee. At times, being snarky or overly critical is like opening a pressure valve.

[Blavatsky]

judgeing by that text wall i'd say you're trying pretty hard bro.

 

Kudos to you , in my years of gaming lord knows I have'nt tried that hard

[Traumahawk]

judgeing by that text wall i'd say you're trying pretty hard bro.

 

Kudos to you , in my years of gaming lord knows I have'nt tried that hard

 

You talkin' to me?

 

Edit: Nevermind, I see what you did there. lol

Edited February 4, 2012 by Traumahawk

[Wythias]

You talkin' to me?

 

Edit: Nevermind, I see what you did there. lol

 

 

Yeah pretty clever...

[Goretzu]

Just goes to show; most people don't know what they want.

[oakamp]

The game slows down around tatooine. Cant put my finger on why though, maybe because i just hate leveling. Not just in this game but all mmos.

 

u should play UO,

 

i dont like leveling either,

but when u ding 50,

it is far more worst.

[Senatsu]

I take the stance that BOTH games (and in most cases all current MMOs) are lacking and should aspire to a higher standard. By the time I left WoW (as a GL of a successful PvE guild) I hated it so much that I spit fire when the name was even mentioned. I still have no love for it, though I must painfully acknowledge that the combat was smooth--not necessarily praising the actual abilities or how you use them--but the mechanical interaction was fairly polished. I also saw that in Rift, though again, I didn't find it engaging enough to keep playing.

 

I know that a lot of so-called "haters" are just inarticulate players that are genuinely disappointed with what they thought SWTOR would be. However, like the last throes of a crumbling relationship, we all hold on to the notion that there is a tiny chance it will all work out in the end. It's also like a cafeteria food fight at times. Sure, it starts off with you saying it's beneath you to toss a tomato across the room, but by the time its reached a frenzy, you are helpless to ignore the primal instinct to engage in the melee. At times, being snarky or overly critical is like opening a pressure valve.

 

I completely agree with you, and if I wouldn't have limited my hate in that post it would have required me to reserve 3 more post slots to finish it.

 

The only feature in WoW that I miss (in any MMO I ever try or have tried), is how smooth the combat was. That and the fact that I knew many people who play it was the reason I stuck out so long. WoW had no RPG elements even though it calls itself an RPG, 1 or 2 bosses that got your blood pumping per expansion, and the leveling was so damn boring. Granted, I haven't been doing any raids/operations in SWTOR yet, BioWare has at least toppled WoW in 2 out of 3, where the last one is still to be judged.

 

I do remember a time when I loved WoW, but that was during the happy-fun-tiemz of finding this massive world that surprised me at every corner. That was until I had played it for 6 months, then the world no longer amazed me. Raiding was tons of fun (I only really got into raiding in TBC, but I did some minor stuff in vanilla), then WotLK came and I saw how little the fights changed. The only thing that stuck through to the end was the mechanical flow of the combat and the friends I gained, that held me on for around 3 years, but that died out too.

 

WoW is still a good game for those who don't have a lot of time on their hands or can't be bothered to put in any work to get good, but the days of WoW being THE MMO for competitive raiding and PvP are over. Without massive overhauls to game features, that won't change. SWTOR is too young for anyone to know whether it will be the next big bad boy on the block, I hope so, but only time will tell. I for one is still enjoying leveling new classes, doing PvP and FPs with my guild and hunt for Datacrons.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Senatsu

[Daedricshots]

u should play UO,

 

i dont like leveling either,

but when u ding 50,

it is far more worst.

 

Glad i didnt play it then i would have broken something.

[Traumahawk]

Just goes to show; most people don't know what they want.

 

Wait a minute...I'll come to the defense of both sides in the debate and say that most people shouldn't have to articulate every subtle psychological reason for "not feeling it". There are entire university courses (and degrees) dedicated to teaching programmers and artists what players "really" want. Subtle ways to make the experience smooth and enjoyable. Hell, I don't know what I want half the time, but I sure as heck know when that weird feeling of uneasiness washes over me. Now something is to blame and it's the developer's responsibility to use that education and experience to solve it (given that it affects enough players, of course).

[Opticflare]

never have had so much fun leveling any toon in any mmo b4... in fact.... when i hit 50 with my BH and i killed the very next add i was sad and somewhat depresed when i got no EXP from it...

 

Leveling toons is def not a grind GJ Bioware on the story line ^_^

[Traumahawk]

I completely agree with you, and if I wouldn't have limited my hate in that post it would have required me to reserve 3 more post slots to finish it.

 

So, I still can't figure the industry out. It seems like either the game developers aren't catching on to the fact that players want challenge again (with new packaging and contents of course) or it's us who have it all wrong, and we really are the vocal minority. To which I say: ain't no big name game publisher gonna to dump loads of cash into a niche market.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Traumahawk

[Lazzer]

I first started playing on the 1st of january, but after a week I had to take a month long break to keep myself from going crazy. I got to 41,

 

... I bought a new PC for this game, and was so excited with every announcement with every MMO I have played I always wished that I could get a more immersive, and better story telling experience with an MMO, and SWTOR brings that, however the leveling process is just so dull to me.

 

... and all the PvP / Space battles I have done is so ridiculous. I try to sometimes find a group for a quest, but it's almost impossible, and it's even less likely to find a group for a flash point.

 

... I only got from 26 to 28 on Nar Shadaa, and that's what really spurred all this rage because I just spent a looooooong time grinding space battles, and BGs getting from 28-30...

 

 

I've paraphrased what stuck out to me in your posts, it reads like you got from 1 to 41 in a week (which means you've been playing around 10 hours or more a day), grinding levels with PvP and space battles and failing to get groups for flashpoints and heroics?

 

To be honest the game is designed for short stretches of 2 to 3 hours and hitting cap in a month or 2 not a week. Space battles are a side game and not designed for leveling, your main story line is the main leveling method and although PvP does give XP grinding PvP for levels will be mind numbing.

 

I'm not sure what else to suggest, it's a shame you haven't got the group for the heroics and flashpoints as they are fun for 1 run each (certainly they become boring if you intend to constantly repeat them).

 

Does that about sum up your experience?