Inf Shadow PVP makes me sad.

[smallvylle]

Was a nerf to your Overall opener dmg, duration to the stun, and AP nerf...

 

Not sure where you get the idea they are better bursting than a Inf spec shadow, if anything there on par with them...

 

Opening on a 400+ exp target i can inflict 5-8k dmg on my inf shadow, depending on Cd's/Crits...

 

My 50 Scoun top Crit i have had with relic+Exp buff from the WZ was 4.5k followed by 3kish max sitting on 650 exp non BC also...

 

So ya not sure where you get your facts, bad game play maybe...

 

i love how stupa like you glorify yourself about how great you are, which is fine, then you follow up with some trash talking at the end.

[Jesmcalli]

If you pick your fights correctly, you shouldn't need force cloak all that much.

 

I find the ONLY time I need it is when I pick poorly. Be it against a guy when I didn't see he had 2 friends with him, or what not.

 

 

And why is it everyone here talks like, "zomg 2 minutes is so long and you'll get focused!"? You have STEALTH, for crying out loud! If they can't see you they can't focus you!

 

Yes, but being nearly a free kill outside of a 2m CD is pretty lame. I think perhaps that's some people's point.

[Laoi]

So, I've gotten to 50, I'm sitting in 575 expertise gear, and yet I see myself constantly being outDPSed/bursted by classes that either have more mitigation/survivability or can heal themselves. I told myself it would get better with levels, that it would get better with gear. But here I am in some of the best gear that the game has to offer in terms of PVP, and I find myself envying the throughput of ACs that not only outdamage, but survive longer than I do.

 

Yes, I use CDs, and yes, I use consumables. Still, I see marauders getting 5k crits, when I am supposed to be happy with around 3.5k. I see Operatives ( post "nerf") still doing more damage/burst, all while being able to top themselves off in a pinch. I see Sorcs and BHs turreting their way to ridiculous numbers ( while being able to heal, and having various mitigation abilities).

 

I don't understand the logic of this class at all. We're the supposed melee stealth class, but we're outperformed in almost every aspect by non-stealth melee or ranged classes. We wear the lightest armor and have the lowest mitigation of any spec in the game, and yet we deal middle of the line damage. Sure, we have some utility in a coordinated team, but why should a Shadow player have to work 3 times as hard for half the results in a solo/PUG setting? The proof is in the pudding, as they say. You don't see too many double-bladed lightsabers on either faction running around at 50, it's just not worth the aggravation.

 

u must be doing something wrong tbh.

its either A) ur spec is wrong.

or B) u lack some understanding of the class mechanics.

or C) u stack wrong stats, which kinda is part of B) to some extend.

 

ur gear is better than mine. i sit on 496 expertise atm. and ive critted on battlemaster dudes for 6-8k with project (double project obv.) and highest crit on assassinate ( cant remember how shadow version was called again i started the game playing a sin. spinning strike? correct me if im wrong) was 4.7k tho i dont think that guy was very well geared. anyways i see plenty of 3.5-4.2k hits on that lately. shadow strike also crits around the 4k mark. these numbers are ofc with biochem consumables but without expertise powerup. with expertise powerup i dont rly get much higher numbers i just get the high numbers more often and well abit higher ofc but as i said not rly significant.

 

anyways point is if i decide to i can burst literally any class down in a matter of seconds. about 16k dmg in 3 gcd´s or so with majority of dmg hitting in like 1 sec. dont think thats bad rly considering im not in battlemaster gear yet and still dont have my champion saber

[thefishdude]

I leveled as an infiltration spec and I'm now lvl 58 valor in PVP. I love my infiltration spec, but if force potency is on cooldown, you're just not going to "crush" anyone. I can't speak for other classes, but if force potency is on CD for me, I'm mainly harassing the healers or ranged guys. I've thought about running a balance, but that's for another post.

 

As a side note, I suspect this would throw balance out of the window, but I'd love to have medium armor.

[Laoi]

I leveled as an infiltration spec and I'm now lvl 58 valor in PVP. I love my infiltration spec, but if force potency is on cooldown, you're just not going to "crush" anyone. I can't speak for other classes, but if force potency is on CD for me, I'm mainly harassing the healers or ranged guys. I've thought about running a balance, but that's for another post.

 

As a side note, I suspect this would throw balance out of the window, but I'd love to have medium armor.

 

point taken, if force potency is on cd overall dmg goes down alot but if ur crit and surge is high enough u can still put out some decent dmg with CS buff. also power relic is pretty good aswell. and also FP has pretty short cd with the 4 piece set bonus. its true that there is quite a few classes that can outdps us on the dmg shard but keep in mind that alot of those are doing aoe dmg (hi2u smash) or they do alot of total dmg but cant rly burst dmg as fast as we can like f.e. merc/commando. when its about taking out a single target rly fast shadow/sin can shine rly well.

[Lawconis]

Telling ya, just TOO squishy with a TOO long of an escape CD.

 

Our dmg output does not match the damage input.

 

For PvP, Tanks are where it's at. They do insane dmg on top of their survivability.

[RockysRevenge]

I love how if you go to the Guardian board, every other post is about how awful the class is compared to all the other tanks. In fact, some even say that we shadows tank BETTER than guardians and that we have far more damage capability.

 

Then you come here and see this. I guess the point is...the grass is always greener when you're up against really tough enemies, and let's face it, having most of the game population on sith side means we have less great PvPers on ours. I always get stomped in PUGs no matter what class I'm on (except trooper).

 

I bet if we all did ONE match with Powerr and saw his 6k crits, we'd be playing a different tune. Infiltration specs are beasts.

[Mycrof]

I have several 50s now. Shadow is well geared. It's subpar in pvp in term of killing another player compared to other classes and the fact is you don't frequently get to "choose your battles" in objective oriented pvp unless you're OK with losing while you pick your moment. It needs to be easier to restealth and shadow either need more controllable burst or better opening skills.

[Redderic]

infil needs a buff imo. its completely subpar in comparison to a kinetic hybrid dpser.

 

- we have 2x the survivability.

- we can self heal quite a bit (i get at least 50k healing per WZ)

- we get incredible crits (4k plus projects with popping consumables)

- we still get to pick every fight we want to be a part of

- our whole scheme doesnt revolve around weapon damage which makes us more of a threat to tanks/ heavy armor wearers

 

should i go on?

personally i think its kind of sad that a hybrid beats the crap out of our "DPS" trees.

[Mycrof]

infil needs a buff imo. its completely subpar in comparison to a kinetic hybrid dpser.

 

- we have 2x the survivability.

- we can self heal quite a bit (i get at least 50k healing per WZ)

- we get incredible crits (4k plus projects with popping consumables)

- we still get to pick every fight we want to be a part of

- our whole scheme doesnt revolve around weapon damage which makes us more of a threat to tanks/ heavy armor wearers

 

should i go on?

personally i think its kind of sad that a hybrid beats the crap out of our "DPS" trees.

 

What's really sad is bioware seem bent on destroying hybrid specs.

[Elkingoh]

What's really sad is bioware seem bent on destroying hybrid specs.

 

No, what's sad is bioware seems bent on destroying the republic

[kckkryptonite]

Was a nerf to your Overall opener dmg, duration to the stun, and AP nerf...

 

Not sure where you get the idea they are better bursting than a Inf spec shadow, if anything there on par with them...

 

Opening on a 400+ exp target i can inflict 5-8k dmg on my inf shadow, depending on Cd's/Crits...

 

My 50 Scoun top Crit i have had with relic+Exp buff from the WZ was 4.5k followed by 3kish max sitting on 650 exp non BC also...

 

So ya not sure where you get your facts, bad game play maybe...

 

You're opening with what on a Shadow to do 5k-8k crits? Nothing really matches Hidden Strike except a 5 procced FB which you build up to, not open with. I don't know where you get your information as you obviously don't have both classes, and much like the majority of the forum pull numbers out of your ***. The duration to the Ops knockdown time also reduced resolve build-up so you can chain Debilitate, but you wouldn't know that.

 

Is it on Voss that you're rocking the 400+ expertise geared people on your supposed level 50 Shadow? My understanding was that there are level 45's that roam around there.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2512238#post2512238

Edited February 5, 2012 by kckkryptonite

[Magnesium]

I think there are certain areas the Infiltration Shadow needs help, moreso on the ability to take more damage as a melee class, but if I solely focus on DPS in a WZ I can easily target being at the top on DPS but that is all subjective to the enemy you face and you can NEVER compare the DPS of Sith Vs Rep because unless you are 100% matching like for like in every department DPS numbers are never a true reflection of those who did the most actual DPS on a "on like" basis.

[droze]

Stop complaining and just learn your class and how to play it, if you cant play as a Inf-specc dont go near it. simple as that, I love the Inf specc and have no problem of bursting ppl down without them even tuching me. so saying Inf is broken or subpar is redicules. Gett your gear and learn your rotations and what tergets you should pick over another one then your set, if you cant do that then i guess you should pick another class. Shadow Inf is a really beastly thing to play if you know how to do so, doesent matter if your opponent is in BM or pure green items you can still burst ppl down if you know how to. Sure it takes abit longer with a BM geared player to do so but you can still burst him down if you do it right in regards of rotations and pocket's etc. And comparing Kinetic with Inf specc is something you cant do regarding burst, yes you still do nice amount of damage but not as "bursty" as an Inf can do. Edited February 5, 2012 by droze

[Noleader]

Well I spent the last two days playing my undergeared 50 Sage in PvP to see how the other half live... partly because I started to wonder if I was underpowered after replying to this thread.

 

I have found something to be true as day... Most people who play assassins/shadows don't know what they are doing. I have 80ish expertise on my Sage and I ran into maybe 1% of the shadows (huttball) or assassins who could kill me without help.

 

It is not because I am the best sage player ever... I actually still suck at it. The problem is the vast majority think spamming a couple buttons is all it takes to play a shadow/assassin.

[FalmeseReb]

@Noleader-

 

Not to sound like a tool, but there is another stealth-oriented AC that has just as much control over who and when they fight, and they do it more efficiently than us ( heck, they even have a stealth detection talent) . On top of doing "our" job better than us, they can heal in a pinch as well. So, no running around hoping combat drops so you they can meditate. Just LoS and heal. That is kind of my point. What is the point of Shadows ( or Sins), when Ops/Scoundrels can do the same, all while not being as squishy, and capable of keeping themselves up?

 

Also, in terms of fighting ranged, they are just as capable of "locking" us down as melee, just by keeping us at ranged and nuking. I can't count the times I've been AOE'd out of stealth, snared/stunned and nuked to oblivion due to dodgy stealth mechanics. CC breaks and resolve only go so far.

 

Ok, you are seriously saying shadow is less squishy then scoundrel? You have no idea what you're talking about. Ohh wow, i didnt even get to the part where you said you were getting ranged nuked by a scoundrel... yeah that 300-400 dmg weapon dmg attack is pretty nasty.

[Chado_]

Well I spent the last two days playing my undergeared 50 Sage in PvP to see how the other half live... partly because I started to wonder if I was underpowered after replying to this thread.

 

I have found something to be true as day... Most people who play assassins/shadows don't know what they are doing. I have 80ish expertise on my Sage and I ran into maybe 1% of the shadows (huttball) or assassins who could kill me without help.

 

It is not because I am the best sage player ever... I actually still suck at it. The problem is the vast majority think spamming a couple buttons is all it takes to play a shadow/assassin.

 

This might be the most nonesnsical thing I've ever read.

[thefishdude]

Stop complaining and just learn your class and how to play it, if you cant play as a Inf-specc dont go near it. simple as that, I love the Inf specc and have no problem of bursting ppl down without them even tuching me. so saying Inf is broken or subpar is redicules. Gett your gear and learn your rotations and what tergets you should pick over another one then your set, if you cant do that then i guess you should pick another class. Shadow Inf is a really beastly thing to play if you know how to do so, doesent matter if your opponent is in BM or pure green items you can still burst ppl down if you know how to. Sure it takes abit longer with a BM geared player to do so but you can still burst him down if you do it right in regards of rotations and pocket's etc. And comparing Kinetic with Inf specc is something you cant do regarding burst, yes you still do nice amount of damage but not as "bursty" as an Inf can do.

 

 

First, I love my infiltration spec and the only thing I'd like to have is a little more armor or Force Cloak on a shorter cooldown. Also, I agree with a lot of your points as well; however, I gotta disagree with you on one point you made. At this point, I'm just about totally Champ geared and if I encounter a fully BM geared sorc, they tend to survive for potentially two reasons:

 

1) all my stuff is on CD. as I stated before, force potency on CD dramatically reduces our damage output

 

2) he/she pops the shield and continuously heals themselves.

 

Yes, I use all my cc and pop the entire medicine cabinet (ie relics, adrenals,etc..). I hit him really, really hard, but gear makes a huge difference. So, "bursting down" a fully geared BM without being fully geared yourself honestly doesn't happen that often.

[droze]

First, I love my infiltration spec and the only thing I'd like to have is a little more armor or Force Cloak on a shorter cooldown. Also, I agree with a lot of your points as well; however, I gotta disagree with you on one point you made. At this point, I'm just about totally Champ geared and if I encounter a fully BM geared sorc, they tend to survive for potentially two reasons:

 

1) all my stuff is on CD. as I stated before, force potency on CD dramatically reduces our damage output

 

2) he/she pops the shield and continuously heals themselves.

 

Yes, I use all my cc and pop the entire medicine cabinet (ie relics, adrenals,etc..). I hit him really, really hard, but gear makes a huge difference. So, "bursting down" a fully geared BM without being fully geared yourself honestly doesn't happen that often.

 

totally agree with you, I'm nearly fully geared in BM and my "medicine cabinet" is beeing abused as it should. And ofc some players are thougher to take down then some. but saying Inf specc is underpower or subpar (w/e) aint correct. I'm not trying to be mean and tell ppl to "L2p" cuz I'm not, but beeing a good shadow means you have to push acouple of buttons and those buttons in a right order wich can take some time to learn. And healers (Particulary powertech ones, atleast for me) can be a pain to take down if they are any good. And CD's is important for a shadow, takin down a really good healer and having most medicine and buffs on CD is a *****. With that said, it's part of the game mechanics of the Shadow.

[Hydurz]

if i actually get a chance to hit a sorc i win

 

 

They ARE BAD THEN LOL

 

 

try dueling a bm sorc, If they can play ur kited around forever GG

 

If you catch them Without their bubble they lose, and they suck.

you will never ever catch a sorc if they are good.

 

If you manage to get off even 5-8 k dmg that bubble will dissappear but gratz they are still 100% hp and you just blew your major dmg - lose

 

 

As full BM gear infil spec we Do NOT lack damage.

We have ZERO gap closers.

Speed is garbage 30 second cooldown main gap closer GG,No-re FAIL. If speed Locked onto the target so lag doesnt screw you then maybe...

[Lawconis]

idk, if gear is the problem/solution then I guess you need BM. Untill then, yea, Infiltration does subpar damage for what you give up in survivability and utility....

 

...The playstyle may be more fun, but just doesn't "bring it" enough for the trade off imo.

[vardarr]

anyone tell me whats the best dps build, not sure at this moment...

[RockysRevenge]

We have ZERO gap closers.

 

I've been keeping to the sidelines on this one because I want to know what everyone thinks, but just had to stress this point. Force speed is our ONLY closer, and if you're a kinetic build, it's a critical part of your routine, so you probably don't want to use it to close. What are we supposed to use to get in peoples' faces?

 

I was watching a youtube vid of a guardian on Ilum taking down sorcs like nobody's business. Granted, they weren't the best sorcs, but his rotation was insanely easy...

 

Force leap>hit all damage abilities>force push>force leap....and so on. We're shadows but we're also consulars...supposed to be strong in the force and all. Why don't we get a leap and push ability? I tend to like knight play far more just because of the ease in closing. Why can't we play more like their companion, Kira, does?

[Reii]

if i actually get a chance to hit a sorc i win

 

 

They ARE BAD THEN LOL

 

 

try dueling a bm sorc, If they can play ur kited around forever GG

 

If you catch them Without their bubble they lose, and they suck.

you will never ever catch a sorc if they are good.

 

If you manage to get off even 5-8 k dmg that bubble will dissappear but gratz they are still 100% hp and you just blew your major dmg - lose

 

 

As full BM gear infil spec we Do NOT lack damage.

We have ZERO gap closers.

Speed is garbage 30 second cooldown main gap closer GG,No-re FAIL. If speed Locked onto the target so lag doesnt screw you then maybe...

 

 

Are you kidding? I **** bm sorcs 1 on 1 if they are dps specced. The healers are harder to kill if you don't get enough burst. When they force speed you force speed. Use your cooldowns (resilience, force cloak, low slash, force stun, force of will) as appropriate to stick to him and interrupt the right spells (depends on situation). A good BM sorc/sage will give you a challenge but the fight (as a 1v1) is in your favor unless you're starting out of stealth and 30m away.

 

Scoundrel/Op open on sage/sorc = force of will and force speed away. Scoundrel/Op now has 2 options. Burn their 'force cloak' or run away.

[stavrakas]

Lol at people complaining about gap closers. You do realise we have 100% uptime on our slow right? You can keep your opponent slowed THE WHOLE TIME. We're like the least kiteable melee class.