Wakantanka Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I have been seeing a lot of post in the 1.1.2 nerf threads claiming Shadows Training is not increasing project damage by 25% correctly. Is this true? Anyone know how this conclusion was made? It is not listed under known issues in the guide like particle acceleration. http://www.torhead.com/ability/7NAdpdr/shadows-training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMickey Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 first time i've heard of this. are you sure you're not talking about particle acceleration and force potency not workin properly together, which loses project its 50% damage bonus under certain circumstances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFire Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 This only came to my attention yesterday, but yes, it is true and it appears that it has never worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganini Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 This only came to my attention yesterday, but yes, it is true and it appears that it has never worked. Woohoo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFire Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Indeed. Some people have suggested that it might work at Rank 1 but not at any subsequent ranks. I haven't had an opportunity to check, since comparison would require a level 10 Shadow and a level 10 Sage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMickey Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 damn, that's pretty lame indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grometsc Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=181131 When I brought up the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakantanka Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 The way I read the ability was the same as Kitru in the other thread. The first rank should increase Project damage 25% while subsequent ranks only increase endurance. Now obviously it would be fun to have it increase project damage 25% per rank but that would seem to be overpowered(Then again maybe not considering the damage output of the other classes such as Sage). If however it is not increasing project damage by 25% when the first rank is learned then this is a rather large problem. As AstralFire said we would need to compare a level 10 shadow to a level 10 sage to settle this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFire Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I can guarantee that a naked 50 Sage and Shadow casting Projects will do the same damage. I'm just curious if it only works at Rank 1 and all subsequent Ranks do not work, or if it never works even at Rank 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakantanka Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 I can guarantee that a naked 50 Sage and Shadow casting Projects will do the same damage. I'm just curious if it only works at Rank 1 and all subsequent Ranks do not work, or if it never works even at Rank 1. This is very disheartening, 25% project damage is huge, better than the tier 5 Kinetic talent and almost as good as the Clairvoyant Strike buff. I could understand the nerf to Circling shadows to other techniques if this ability was working properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonianJedi Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 This is one issue that I haven't been able to confirm for lack of time, though it was something I wanted to look into. I'm happy to see others have been able to confirm that it is an issue and will be more than happy to join in on the chorus to get this fixed. (I wonder if this affects assassins and their shock ability too...or is this another unbalanced aspect of the ability.) There are so many issues plaguing the project ability....so many issues. I believe that the sheer amount of them should put project very high on the Dev's list of things to look at fixing. (It may very well be...) I know some of the issues are getting fixed in the next patch, but others haven't been addressed in any official capacity that I have seen. *shrugs* All we can do is bring it to their attention and wait. I'll be submitting another bug ticket today detailing this issue. (Since they take feedback from both the forums and in game tickets.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlacke Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 This is a serious problem in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmasterub Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 You would think bugs in a classes central ability would be higher on the priority list than "unintended hybrids" that are not unbalanced. Do the developers even play this class. Most bassackward design strategy ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddmyth Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 You would think bugs in a classes central ability would be higher on the priority list than "unintended hybrids" that are not unbalanced. Do the developers even play this class. Most bassackward design strategy ever How do you not understand that the "unintended hybrids" are the central reason for this problem? Think about specs that include Particle Acceleration, Circling Shadows and Upheaval. Then think about adding another 7-10% damage to Project and adding another 50% bonus damage from a Force Potency enhanced Particle Accelerated auto-crit Project. As Infiltration my Projects can hit close to 5k right now in only half decent gear. If I was able to run around as : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601McMczZhGbMZf0cRrMz.1 Then I could be a wrecking machine if Project actually worked as intended, hitting people with 6k auto crit projects every few seconds. Its simply not how the game was intended to be played. And we've been running around with half baked Project mechanics for months. The assbackward part is the hybridization of the class breaking Projects true mechanics. Not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkenheineken Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 You would think bugs in a classes central ability would be higher on the priority list than "unintended hybrids" that are not unbalanced. Do the developers even play this class. Most bassackward design strategy ever My thoughts as well. Shadows have a ton of bugs with their core abilities, and yet Bioware's first priority is giving the talent trees a facelift. Not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KilmarFyrewynd Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I think they are sloooooooowly working on it. Two of my bigger gripes about our abilities is Unity doing the opposite of what it does (being fixed in 1.1.2) and Project delay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasheth Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) My thoughts as well. Shadows have a ton of bugs with their core abilities, and yet Bioware's first priority is giving the talent trees a facelift. Not good. Cause there is only one team that works on this game the balancing team is totally the bug team. Wait oh no its not. There is a long dev blog on the front page of the forums. You should go read it so you can learn how the process works. Its a good read. The fact that you don't know that its to different teams is whats really not good Edited February 3, 2012 by Rasheth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grometsc Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I can guarantee that a naked 50 Sage and Shadow casting Projects will do the same damage. I'm just curious if it only works at Rank 1 and all subsequent Ranks do not work, or if it never works even at Rank 1. It doesnt work at Rank 1 either....Now the teller will be when my sith reaches 10 (I expect that one to actually work tbh) http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/grometsc/swtor2012-02-0317-33-26-23.jpg http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/grometsc/swtor2012-02-0317-37-08-72.jpg Project has same base dmg for a lvl 10 consular as a lvl 10 shadow with Shadow's training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakantanka Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) How do you not understand that the "unintended hybrids" are the central reason for this problem? Think about specs that include Particle Acceleration, Circling Shadows and Upheaval. Then think about adding another 7-10% damage to Project and adding another 50% bonus damage from a Force Potency enhanced Particle Accelerated auto-crit Project. As Infiltration my Projects can hit close to 5k right now in only half decent gear. If I was able to run around as : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601McMczZhGbMZf0cRrMz.1 Then I could be a wrecking machine if Project actually worked as intended, hitting people with 6k auto crit projects every few seconds. Its simply not how the game was intended to be played. And we've been running around with half baked Project mechanics for months. The assbackward part is the hybridization of the class breaking Projects true mechanics. Not the other way around. Wrecking machine as in not doing as much damage as a trooper/bh? Sorry your theoretical hybrid lacks the damage boost from CS so it would not attain 6k crits, it would actually have 5% less damage than a current Infiltrations upheavaled project crit even with force potency up. If your going to nerf hybrids based on possible damage output when all abilities are working properly, at least fix those abilities. Edited February 3, 2012 by Wakantanka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawconis Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 REAL QUESTION: Does the Sith version of this work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 This is one issue that I haven't been able to confirm for lack of time, though it was something I wanted to look into. I'm happy to see others have been able to confirm that it is an issue and will be more than happy to join in on the chorus to get this fixed. (I wonder if this affects assassins and their shock ability too...or is this another unbalanced aspect of the ability.) There are so many issues plaguing the project ability....so many issues. I believe that the sheer amount of them should put project very high on the Dev's list of things to look at fixing. (It may very well be...) I know some of the issues are getting fixed in the next patch, but others haven't been addressed in any official capacity that I have seen. *shrugs* All we can do is bring it to their attention and wait. I'll be submitting another bug ticket today detailing this issue. (Since they take feedback from both the forums and in game tickets.) You get 25% from the initial training and after that its a End buff, working as intended... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grometsc Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 You get 0% from the initial training and its a 5 End buff, working as intended... Fixed! http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/grometsc/swtor2012-02-0317-33-26-23.jpg http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/grometsc/swtor2012-02-0317-37-08-72.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Fixed! http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/grometsc/swtor2012-02-0317-33-26-23.jpg http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/grometsc/swtor2012-02-0317-37-08-72.jpg Nyne... Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddmyth Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) If your going to nerf hybrids based on possible damage output when all abilities are working properly, at least fix those abilities. That's the point, they are fixing those abilities. 6k is an example, in the highest level PVE Stalkers gear with a hybrid spec, popping trinks/adrenals/FP. Are you going to be able to hit that with an extra 7% base damage and 50% bonus crit damage? I can't say for sure, but I think we can all say that it certainly would be hitting pretty hard and even harder in 23/0/18. The point is with an upheaval proc and Project working as intended you can reach pretty high numbers in a tank stance (BTW combat tech is 5% less melee bonus damage, has nothing to do w/ Project), and get those numbers for a very low force cost (23 force, less if talented in the Balance tree), and have the ability to reset the CD on Project by using another low cost ability (Double Strike) and have a free dot, instant force lift, and all the other utility that Shadows bring to the table BECAUSE we have light armor. Once you stop having light armor but still have all the benefits of a light armored class, things are unbalanced. Edited February 4, 2012 by oddmyth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grometsc Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 REAL QUESTION: Does the Sith version of this work? Rank 1 is broken just like Shadow's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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