1.1.2 PVP Bag Changes. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! (official quote inside)

[Sumire]

Remember, next time, complain enough and you will get your own way.

[Darth-Rammstein]

ok, so you get 7 champion commendations per champion bag....how much is an average piece of loot?...I'm wondering how many bags it would take to buy a single piece so I know if I should save my bags for post nerf or roll the lotto with em before hand.

[Haeso]

ok, so you get 7 champion commendations per champion bag....how much is an average piece of loot?...I'm wondering how many bags it would take to buy a single piece so I know if I should save my bags for post nerf or roll the lotto with em before hand.

 

67 for a set piece, 44 bracer/belt, 24 Relic, 127 weapon, 44 Offhand.

[Genesis_Shadow]

It amuses me that average drop rates decreasing makes people think drop rates are increasing.

 

Sure on my first 20 bags I got nothing (Eh, I expected it. Bioware must have me programed into their RNG with a big side note saying to screw me over as much as possible, happens in all their games) but on my next 10 I got a piece EVERY SINGLE BAG.

 

To clarify for those to lazy to do the maths, 35 ish bags has me at nearly fully champ geared; with a sizeable set of my dps gear (main set being tank), post nerf (and it is a nerf) I'll end up with a "massive" increase of... oh wait, less pieces than I need.

 

As some other people stated, the only people who will REALLY benefit from this are those mostly geared (like myself, before any idiot says I'm just saying that because I want "free stuff" and whatnot) who need only a couple of very select pieces for their full set.

 

The ONLY good thing about this is if I chose to fully gear a companion for lolz I can just spam the trillions of cent gear pieces I will get, which DID need to happen because cent gear was harder to get than Champ gear. (which I find ironic, Cent is possibly only beaten by Battlemaster out of all six tiers of endgame gear, Rakata after all can be crafted; and hm ops aren't THAT difficult; whilst cent gear takes 40+ bags to get a weapon alone)

 

PS - to all the poor BMs with no luck... keep at it ya'll! one of my guildies got his saber from his first three bags lol. *jealous of Black/Blue*

[Antiface]

All sounds good.. but how exactly these affects my unassembled duplicates?

[Darth-Rammstein]

Welfare system it is then, more like WOW every passing day.

 

actually the rng free epix system in place now is as welfare as it gets....these new changes actually has progression and lets you work for your gear unlike now where all you do is open a bag and get loot at no effort if you have luck and to others is the worst system in the world just because rng hates them....you sound mad because now people can have the same gear you have >.>

[fungihoujo]

Apparently its a 25% drop rate so from 20 bags 'average' would be 5. 3 is unlucky but not THAT unlucky/unlikely.

 

That, but also- the difference between Champ and BM isn't too big... compared to the difference between no pvp gear and Champ, or even Cent and Champ (though, at the current rate, it'd take like, 100 bags to get full cent gear)

 

Once I get champ gear I'll feel relatively even with BM/Champs- within that 5% range. With no gear and very slow gear gains though- 15% bonus to damage and defense makes me hit 30% weaker than a champ is hitting me- that's pretty significant.

[AndantePhist]

ITT:

 

Those that got lucky with the current bag system: WELFARE EPIX!!11!!!!

 

Everyone else: This new system is fair.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FYI: I am a battlemaster with full champ/rakata/BM gear.

Edited February 3, 2012 by AndantePhist

[shuasage]

Saving bags as of now =)

[Misa-Misa]

2bad normal vendor bags don't stack, be sure to atleast save your other bags and 1k mercenary and 1k warzone !

[Darth-Rammstein]

too bad I didn't hear about this sooner, I opened up 8 bags today and got nothing but a single duplicate item =/....and I only have 2 pieces of champ gear too which makes it that much worse.

[AncientForce]

Question: With the new bags, will there still be a chance to get a some assembly required champion item token or are those being removed altogether?

 

And if I save my bags now, will they convert to the new bags when i open them after the change?

[DinesenDK]

The BM bags needs to drop BM tokens everytime and not with a 25% chance. Otherwise you will create the same problem further down the line.

 

People crying over insanely bad luck and getting very few BM tokens, and others with more luck getting them very often - Again a bad balance.

 

So, just lower the amounts of BM commedations in the bags and let them drop everytime. Simple and easy.

 

And..

 

So what will happen with Champ bags in your inventory gained before patch 1.2, but opened after patch 1.2? Will they be removed or remain in our inventory?

Edited February 3, 2012 by DinesenDK

[Smerte]

The BM bags needs to drop BM tokens everytime and not with a 25% chance. Otherwise you will create the same problem further down the line.

 

No... because Battlemaster gear only offers a very slight edge over champion gear, whereas Fresh 50 gear to champion gear is a huge difference.

 

Battlemaster gear should stay 25 % per token, to make it at least hard to come by.

[Gorgok]

I am pretty sure the opening of the bag/box rolls the loot, so it won't be any different than opening a new bag/box...

 

What i still want to know is what happens to unassembled champion items currently in your possession. Are they being converted to comms and to how many comms?

[jcyrus]

As some other people stated, the only people who will REALLY benefit from this are those mostly geared (like myself, before any idiot says I'm just saying that because I want "free stuff" and whatnot) who need only a couple of very select pieces for their full set.

No, that is not the case at all.

 

Suppose a player hits 50. They have no PvP gear.

This player has maxed their Mercenary/Warzone commendations, and has bought their 1 pre-50 bag.

Armed with those 6 bags, currently that player will get 1-2 pieces of Champion gear if they are lucky. At most they will get 18 Centurion commendations.

 

Under the upcoming system, that player will instead get 90 Centurion commendations and 42 Champion commendations from those 6 bags. They also have the chance of getting an unassembled Champion piece, though less of a chance than the current bags.

 

Thanks to that change, that new 50 player will be able to buy multiple pieces of PvP gear right off the bat, as soon as they ding. That is a massive boon to new 50's, who are the ones this change favors.

 

* * *

 

I'll demonstrate it another way.

 

I have opened 10 Champion bags on my Sniper. Out of those 10, I've gotten a Champion helmet and belt, and 28 or 29 Centurion commendations.

 

Taking the item prices into account, it would be like me having received 28/29 Centurion commendations, and 111 Champion commendations (67+44).

 

With these changes, I would instead have gotten 150 Centurion commendations, and 70 Champion commendations.

 

Now considering my Sniper had 0 PvP gear at the start of those 10 bags, which situation am I better off in? The one where I can affort 1-2 Champion pieces (depending on the pieces), and multiple Centurion pieces? Or the one where I get 2 Champion pieces and enough Centurion commendations for one non-set Centurion piece?

 

This change is fantastic for new 50's, and for any player who has had bad luck with the RNG. I've got a guildie who has gotten multiple Champion offhand drops - totally useless to him. That kind of thing will happen less with this new system. At least in the Champion range.

[TriIIian]

This is great. All i need now is somthing to do with all those doubled up relic tokens in my locker.

[Nohkron]

Oh dont worry, it will still take forever to get 1 bit

 

Im currently 20 bags, 3 BM comms

Weird I average 1 BM token from the 2 daily bags, last week I even got 3 tokens out of the 4 bags.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Nohkron

[zeroburrito]

No, that is not the case at all.

 

Suppose a player hits 50. They have no PvP gear.

This player has maxed their Mercenary/Warzone commendations, and has bought their 1 pre-50 bag.

Armed with those 6 bags, currently that player will get 1-2 pieces of Champion gear if they are lucky. At most they will get 18 Centurion commendations.

 

Under the upcoming system, that player will instead get 90 Centurion commendations and 42 Champion commendations from those 6 bags. They also have the chance of getting an unassembled Champion piece, though less of a chance than the current bags.

 

Thanks to that change, that new 50 player will be able to buy multiple pieces of PvP gear right off the bat, as soon as they ding. That is a massive boon to new 50's, who are the ones this change favors.

 

* * *

 

I'll demonstrate it another way.

 

I have opened 10 Champion bags on my Sniper. Out of those 10, I've gotten a Champion helmet and belt, and 28 or 29 Centurion commendations.

 

Taking the item prices into account, it would be like me having received 28/29 Centurion commendations, and 111 Champion commendations (67+44).

 

With these changes, I would instead have gotten 150 Centurion commendations, and 70 Champion commendations.

 

Now considering my Sniper had 0 PvP gear at the start of those 10 bags, which situation am I better off in? The one where I can affort 1-2 Champion pieces (depending on the pieces), and multiple Centurion pieces? Or the one where I get 2 Champion pieces and enough Centurion commendations for one non-set Centurion piece?

 

This change is fantastic for new 50's, and for any player who has had bad luck with the RNG. I've got a guildie who has gotten multiple Champion offhand drops - totally useless to him. That kind of thing will happen less with this new system. At least in the Champion range.

 

oranges with mods are better than centurion gear for pvp. that's the problem.

 

and from what he said they are removing the chance of champion gear from the bags, meaning only commendations.

Edited February 3, 2012 by zeroburrito

[Calitri]

It's a step in the right direction, but they do need to get rid of the chance for tokens in BM bags. And make it a guarantee to get them, I could be wrong here. But the idea of getting valor 50 or 60 whatever it is to actually make use of the stuff, and then only having a chance at BM tokens seems a bit ridicilous.

[Saiwen]

and from what he said they are removing the chance of champion gear from the bags, meaning only commendations.

Wrong, read the patch notes:

 

The number of commendations in Champion and Battlemaster Bags has been greatly increased, and the direct item trade tokens appear less frequently in Champion Bags. This change allows players to obtain PvP gear at a steady and significantly more predictable rate with an occasional bonus.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Saiwen

[bubasparks]

From 9 BM boxes i didnt got any single BM mark!? I mean *** !?

 

Ohh and other thing, whan i dinged rank 60,i had like almost full champ equipment, why i need those tons of champ coms if there is nothing i can use them for? How about adding possibility to convert lets say 30 champ coms for 1 BM ?

[Saiwen]

It's a step in the right direction, but they do need to get rid of the chance for tokens in BM bags. And make it a guarantee to get them, I could be wrong here. But the idea of getting valor 50 or 60 whatever it is to actually make use of the stuff, and then only having a chance at BM tokens seems a bit ridicilous.

 

I strongly disagree. BM gear is just slightly better than Champ gear and is to be considered a bonus. With your proposed system, everyone would get full BM gear in a matter of days. And what do people do when they have the best gear in the game and nothing left to grind for? They quit.

 

Make BM gear even rarer IMO, so players have something to grind for. The game is only 1 month old ffs. What are you going to do the next 6 if you already have the best gear?

[Genesis_Shadow]

No, that is not the case at all.

 

Suppose a player hits 50. They have no PvP gear.

This player has maxed their Mercenary/Warzone commendations, and has bought their 1 pre-50 bag.

Armed with those 6 bags, currently that player will get 1-2 pieces of Champion gear if they are lucky. At most they will get 18 Centurion commendations.

 

Under the upcoming system, that player will instead get 90 Centurion commendations and 42 Champion commendations from those 6 bags. They also have the chance of getting an unassembled Champion piece, though less of a chance than the current bags.

 

Thanks to that change, that new 50 player will be able to buy multiple pieces of PvP gear right off the bat, as soon as they ding. That is a massive boon to new 50's, who are the ones this change favors.

 

* * *

 

I'll demonstrate it another way.

 

I have opened 10 Champion bags on my Sniper. Out of those 10, I've gotten a Champion helmet and belt, and 28 or 29 Centurion commendations.

 

Taking the item prices into account, it would be like me having received 28/29 Centurion commendations, and 111 Champion commendations (67+44).

 

With these changes, I would instead have gotten 150 Centurion commendations, and 70 Champion commendations.

 

Now considering my Sniper had 0 PvP gear at the start of those 10 bags, which situation am I better off in? The one where I can affort 1-2 Champion pieces (depending on the pieces), and multiple Centurion pieces? Or the one where I get 2 Champion pieces and enough Centurion commendations for one non-set Centurion piece?

 

This change is fantastic for new 50's, and for any player who has had bad luck with the RNG. I've got a guildie who has gotten multiple Champion offhand drops - totally useless to him. That kind of thing will happen less with this new system. At least in the Champion range.

 

EDIT: Apparently, they aren't removing champion tokens, however I suspect "stupidly rare" to be the expected drop rate of them.... meaning it's even more down to RNG than ever >_>

 

Centurion gear is actually BELOW most entry level 50 gear, you cannot use sub standard stat gear just because it has expertise, especially when Centurion > Champ is far below Champ > BM; hell there's a pretty damned strong case for same tier PvE gear being better for PvP in some cases.

 

Going by the average drop rate of tokens from everyone I've spoken to about it on my server, there will be, on average, less champion gear recieved for players. This isn't the good luckers receiving less drops, this is the average drop amounts. There is no way in a trillion years I could gear up as fast as I did with the new tables, and I had worse luck on my starting drops than pretty much anyone I spoke to. 7 Champion tokens is a total joke; you do not only recieve one champion relic per 3.5 bags or whatever it works out to at the moment, and you certainly don't recieve one chestpiece per 10 bags (again or whatever it works out to, I'm out of the game for a bit so can't check) and lets not even go there for length of time for a mainhand.

 

Entry PvP is all about getting those FIRST pieces as fast as possible. This removes that speed, and Centurion gear being faster just won't cut it; not when those players who are ungeared are suddenly facing players who are gearing up EASIER because they had been getting regular dupes. When I hit 50 a week ago I was literally being melted because all I had was two cent implants, this week I'm in near full champ gear and the one doing the melting to new 50s. Currently the biggest slow down on my gearing is a combination of laziness, boredom of farming stupid armaments whilst the imperials hide on their fleet, and the fact when I do get a token now, it's normally a copy.

 

So yeah. New players will get champ gear slower (unless they suffer from horrific bad luck) and old 50s will get full gear sooner, widening the gap because we'll be able to just plant their faces into the ground with our full Champ whilst they struggle with getting a single piece of it.

 

Don't get me wrong, making Cent gear actually achievable IS a good thing, what I'm saying is the numbers don't add up. People will not acquire that gear as fast as they were; whilst the players who, like me, only need a couple of pieces (four to be precise) will suddenly be fully geared. MY average drop rate on tokens is in the region of 20-25%, after the randomisation gradually balanced itself, which is also the eventual average rate from most players I've spoken to about it (probably a slightly larger overal band, I doubt they all tell the truth all the time =P) this would mean a significantly higher commendation drop rate would be required... which would still defeat the object of increasing the Centurion commendations.

 

Bioware kinda shot themselves in the foot... make that both feet, with having champion gear basically a lolz-farm with the easiest method of gaining bags being armament farming. Also Champ gear as it currently is is beyond easy to acquire; and due to it being more or less required for 50 pvp makes this ease of access unrectifiable without making more tiers of gear... which again, there's a block to because BM gear would have to either be upped or requirement lowered... and well the vicious circle continues.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Genesis_Shadow

[Anatharion]

Yea ok, so 3 days available time spent doing nothing but WZ's to acquire 1 bag. Basically 26 hours of in game time spent not winning a single match, or getting credit for the one's that we did so no Daily, no Weekly and 26 hours spent getting 40-50 coms on average from losing war zones and getting tokens is going to make it all better? Yea ok.. a 74 token piece of gear is what 11 bags? That's 286 hours of game time at that rate, or if you want a easier to understand version, Grinding non-stop for almost 12 days non-stop. Realistically that's what 1 piece of gear a month? At that pace I can get a set in what half a year? No thanks, I'd rather they focus on the real issue not the symptoms.

 

These changes are simply smoke and mirrors, the end result will be pretty much the same. They simply aren't getting it, the issue isn't drop rates, it's how stupid the time investment has become for the New 50's since brackets were put in to acquire gear.

 

Dude if you cannot win a single WZ in 26 hours of game time played you have no right to be playing in WZ's at all. I'm a good player and I can win 10 WZ's in about 5 hour if I solo queue. If I go in a premade I can win 7/10.