We are the laughing stock of PvP

[beaujames]

Carnage has fundamental execution issues. It's only viable in a premade against premades. In any other circumstance, it's significantly weaker than Annihilation or Rage.

 

Since the original topic of this thread, "QQMarauderQQ" is worthless, let's discuss Carnage.

 

Why Carnage fails in general and in pug gameplay in particular:

 

1. All of Carnage damage is direct damage staggered by the GCD. Each notable segment of Carnage damage happens 1.5s apart from the next attack (Berserk'd Massacres aside).

 

Contrast: The big hitters of Annihilation cast be unloaded simultaneously, in a single GCD. They are DOTs. 80% of Anni's damage can be applied in 40% of contact time. You DS, Rupture, Annihilate, and boom that is 80% of the spec's damage. Due to the DOT nature, and particularly the mechanics of DS, this also synchronizes an automatic burst effect: Deadly Saber hits 3 stacks with Rupture ticking, with Annihilate thrown at the same time.

 

For Rage spec, the majority of the damage (perhaps 70% of the spec's damage) is unloaded via Crush and Smash (and Choke/Rupture and Smash). The damage methodology is similarly "DELAYED BURST". In addition, the abilties are usable at 10m range, drastically increasing the effective contact time of the spec.

 

Functional result: Both Annihilation and Rage can "JOUST" much more effectively (or otherwise make effective use of touch-and-go contact time), in addition to having automatically timed burst sequences.

 

Also, Carnage becomes WAY more healable than Annihilation or Rage.

 

2. The damage is highly RNG-based. Due to the crit damage talent "balancing" the tree by applying to 90% of the damage output of Carnage, the effectiveness of the Carnage spec relies on getting crits.

 

Contrast: Rage is somewhat streaky on crits, but at least Smash autocrits. Force Scream autocrits for Combat, however Force Scream is a much smaller contributor to damage for Combat than Smash is for Rage.

 

Annihilation has very, very stable damage output and cyclical bursts. Next patch it may be more sporadic with the crit damage change, but we'll see.

 

3. Gore enhances the above problems. Not only does the spec rely on RNG for any burst and demand high contact time for total DPS, but it also applies a very narrow execution window for its other scaling vector, the armor pen. The best part is that the GCD from using Gore itself already blows 25% of its buff duration, along with Gore's high cost: 3 Rage and a GCD. It's one of the most expensive Marauder abilities, does dick for damage, and gives effectively a 33% damage buff for 3 GCDs. (note: in other words it gives you 1 free attack, except it costs 50% more than a Massacre and telegraphs your intent given how alarming the animation and sound effect is to observant enemy players).

 

4. Fury generation and Berserk. Berserk's duration and the general Fury generation rate in Carnage exacerbates the "narrowness" and unreliability of the spec's damage output. If the stars align, Carnage can achieve the hardest burn in the game: mostly full rage bar, 30 Fury, Gore, no enemy cc during gore, all relics and adrenals up, and an unusually high crit chance. Sure, you can nail 3500+ Massacres every GCD for 4 seconds with a 4500 Force Scream to top it off.

 

However, the entire execution of that is susceptible to enemy interference, unreliable from RNG, and resource intensive due to the general "rarity" of Fury in the spec. Oh, and Combat generates less Rage than Annihilation.

 

And, this execution is still less burst in 1 GCD than Rage.

 

5. Defense. Carnage is the softest mother****ing spec. No heal ticks, no 7% damage reduction. No 4% elemental/internal reduction. This means you need to take exceptional care to blow cooldowns and kite / joust opponents to survive. This makes observation #1 even worse. Not only does the spec get seriously impacted by enemy kiting or your own jousting, but the spec supports a high-contact requirement WORSE than Anni or Rage.

 

6. CC spam and ****** resolve. While on the bright side, the CC and resolve spam means that your resolve-bypassing root on Deadly Throw is comedy *********** gold in Huttball as the whitebarred ball carrier is walking over that fire pit, it also means that no one gives a **** about that extra Nth random CC. Particularly the healer you want to kill that is already whitebarred from your teammates' CC and/or your own Roar and Choke. This is where Annihilation gets a distinct advantage with its Resolve-immune serious-mode-suppression-called-interrupt-spam.

 

7. CC spam and ****** resolve. Part 2, where your narrow fragile window of intense burn DPS execution can be cut short by a plethora of random CC being throw around. Even 1 GCD lost to a CC will negate almost half your Gore window, and put your Berserk stacks at risk from expiration.

 

 

TLDR: Carnage's DPS is too fragile. Carnage's durability is too fragile. When Carnage's DPS actually goes off, it is staggered across GCDs.

 

Carnage spec demands team support, and its specific utility (resolve-bypass root, fast target swap instant burst) is only relevant against strong teams. Carnage's only 'niche' is in a premade against other premades. And in that context it is only 'competitive' with the other specs.

 

Carnage is fine...I have no problem with it. In fact I seen more success with carnage than I did with Annihilation. Carnage is controlled burst...use it right and prosper. Its not near as rage starved as Annihilation is. Its a play preference. I am much more comfortable and successful with carnage. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean its a crap spec.

[Foxcolt]

Carnage is fine...I have no problem with it. In fact I seen more success with carnage than I did with Annihilation. Carnage is controlled burst...use it right and prosper. Its not near as rage starved as Annihilation is. Its a play preference. I am much more comfortable and successful with carnage. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean its a crap spec.

 

So because you had success in your situation with whatever variables in the mix (your skill level, gear, other peoples skill level) you feel the need to post this drivel trying to dismiss another post that actually had thoughtful reasons as to why the spec may be weak?

 

Just because you like it..doesn't make it good brah...

[EasymodeX]

Facepalm.

 

It's not a matter of me liking it or not. It's a matter of the spec being weaker on a fundamental level than the other specs.

[Damodude]

I don't even consider myself a skilled player (first melee class in an mmo, and only lvl 38), but with one of my guildmates healing me, I can destroy groups of 4 players on a fairly regular basis, as Carnage spec. I don't buy this "Marauder is underpowered" stuff. We do have some glaring issues, and in my opinion most of those issues are shared by all classes (too many knockbacks for example, makign things generally frustrating and unfun).

 

That been said, I do think our DPS is too low for a pure dps class. But I wouldn't go so far as to say we're underpowered. A few teaks would do the trick.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Damodude

[HBninjaX]

anyone can wreck shop with a pocket healer, hell I even saw a level 10 SAGE pwning people with a 40+ pocket healer.

 

The class isn't broken, but it is PERCEIVED as a free kill. The class does need some attention, bottom line. The cons outweigh the pros. You may be able to rip with a 3 string guitar, but you won't be able to pull off what an equal skilled guy can do with 6 strings.

[CrazyAl]

You may be able to rip with a 3 string guitar, but you won't be able to pull off what an equal skilled guy can do with 6 strings.

 

absolutely true

 

when you find a class thats only playing with 3 lemme know, cause marauders have a full set of 6 brand new strings

[AcaciaDragon]

Carnage has fundamental execution issues. It's only viable in a premade against premades. In any other circumstance, it's significantly weaker than Annihilation or Rage.

 

Since the original topic of this thread, "QQMarauderQQ" is worthless, let's discuss Carnage.

 

Why Carnage fails in general and in pug gameplay in particular:

 

1. All of Carnage damage is direct damage staggered by the GCD. Each notable segment of Carnage damage happens 1.5s apart from the next attack (Berserk'd Massacres aside).

 

Contrast: The big hitters of Annihilation cast be unloaded simultaneously, in a single GCD. They are DOTs. 80% of Anni's damage can be applied in 40% of contact time. You DS, Rupture, Annihilate, and boom that is 80% of the spec's damage. Due to the DOT nature, and particularly the mechanics of DS, this also synchronizes an automatic burst effect: Deadly Saber hits 3 stacks with Rupture ticking, with Annihilate thrown at the same time.

 

Yeah but you arent just sitting there watching your damage proc while dots are up, you are using abilities that use up GCD. Saying we are staggered is an obvious statement. Everyone is "staggered" by it. And it doesn't negatively effect us anymore more than it does anyone else.

 

For Rage spec, the majority of the damage (perhaps 70% of the spec's damage) is unloaded via Crush and Smash (and Choke/Rupture and Smash). The damage methodology is similarly "DELAYED BURST". In addition, the abilties are usable at 10m range, drastically increasing the effective contact time of the spec.

 

Yes but Omega smash can only hit every 25 seconds, twice int he same time if Choke is also up. It can also be avoided and mitigated from a smart player, and only does more damage in certain circumstances where more than one opponent is nearby. Force Scream is a short ranged move, meaning we can use it on opponents running away.

 

Functional result: Both Annihilation and Rage can "JOUST" much more effectively (or otherwise make effective use of touch-and-go contact time), in addition to having automatically timed burst sequences.

 

That is the function of those specs. You can dot up, or jump in and Burst a hella ton of damage, but Carnage requires a different mindset and slightly different play style. I have noticed a trend lately with People trying different specs that originated from Annihilation and Rage, when they try Carnage they feel weak but it requires a different mindset and tactic than the other two. But big numbers and satisfaction are still there.

 

You posted in the numerous "marauders are weak" about how this class requires more skill and time than other classes and that applies to each spec as well.

 

Also, Carnage becomes WAY more healable than Annihilation or Rage.

Did you mean we take more damage? Not sure what you meant by this.

 

2. The damage is highly RNG-based. Due to the crit damage talent "balancing" the tree by applying to 90% of the damage output of Carnage, the effectiveness of the Carnage spec relies on getting crits.

 

Not entirely. The RNG is there, but its there with any class. The majority of my damage comes not from Force Scream, but from Massacre and Ataru. I have to use that ability at least once before a Scream, and Each massacre will hit for 1.6k-3k with crits(and each Massacre has a chance to proc 2 Atarus, one separate from the GCD). A Force Scream without buffs will hit for 2.5k-2.8k on average.

 

Contrast: Rage is somewhat streaky on crits, but at least Smash autocrits. Force Scream autocrits for Combat, however Force Scream is a much smaller contributor to damage for Combat than Smash is for Rage.

 

Force Scream Auto Crits too. Blood frenzy has to be watched. It requires a little more attention. The damage out put is only smaller in areas where Smash hits more than 1 target, but Rage is meant to take on more than 1 target, while Carnage is able to focus one target down and make his life a living hell. Also, we are the only spec that can boast 11k damage in 5 seconds(Gore + Ravage + Scream) every 30 seconds.

 

Annihilation has very, very stable damage output and cyclical bursts. Next patch it may be more sporadic with the crit damage change, but we'll see.

 

This is what makes that spec great for that play style where people like to KNOW what damage they will do every single time. There is nothing wrong with that, but thats not for me. Not every spec and class is like that, that doesn't mean its bad or broken only that there is more risk and reward with that spec/class.

 

3. Gore enhances the above problems. Not only does the spec rely on RNG for any burst and demand high contact time for total DPS, but it also applies a very narrow execution window for its other scaling vector, the armor pen. The best part is that the GCD from using Gore itself already blows 25% of its buff duration, along with Gore's high cost: 3 Rage and a GCD. It's one of the most expensive Marauder abilities, does dick for damage, and gives effectively a 33% damage buff for 3 GCDs. (note: in other words it gives you 1 free attack, except it costs 50% more than a Massacre and telegraphs your intent given how alarming the animation and sound effect is to observant enemy players).

 

This I will agree with you, which is why i stated the Ravage+ Gore + Scream combo, its the only way to maximize it, other than Gore + Massacre + Scream. Gore needs some work.

 

4. Fury generation and Berserk. Berserk's duration and the general Fury generation rate in Carnage exacerbates the "narrowness" and unreliability of the spec's damage output. If the stars align, Carnage can achieve the hardest burn in the game: mostly full rage bar, 30 Fury, Gore, no enemy cc during gore, all relics and adrenals up, and an unusually high crit chance. Sure, you can nail 3500+ Massacres every GCD for 4 seconds with a 4500 Force Scream to top it off.

 

We actually only need 6 rage to use our Berserk. And Fury generation is no problem as the Talents that grant us a big chunk of fury building improvement are available to all the specs(Short Fuse is yours but I have a feeling they gave that to you because the spec needs that Fury for Berserk more often) Where as Carnage relies less on Berserk meaning we are able to hold on to it for that situation when we can stay on our target for 6 seconds. Thank the Sith Gods for for Crippling slash and Displacement. We only need to use 4 Massacres in that Berserk to make popping it worth it as in the same amount of time with the full GCD we could only do 3 Massacres. We only used 4 rage to do it, instead of 6.

 

However, the entire execution of that is susceptible to enemy interference, unreliable from RNG, and resource intensive due to the general "rarity" of Fury in the spec. Oh, and Combat generates less Rage than Annihilation.

 

Yep and if they knock you back your dots will still tick, but you will only be half as effective as the other source of your damage(you) is now too far away. However your statement can be applied to Rage as well. You can be more liberal with your fury spending, while the other 2 specs need to be more conservative, that still doesn't make Carnage weaker.

 

And, this execution is still less burst in 1 GCD than Rage.

 

Of course it is, in 1 second, Rage can do Omega Smash. Carnage takes time to do that big damage, it requires setup, just like Annihilation.

 

5. Defense. Carnage is the softest mother****ing spec. No heal ticks, no 7% damage reduction. No 4% elemental/internal reduction. This means you need to take exceptional care to blow cooldowns and kite / joust opponents to survive. This makes observation #1 even worse. Not only does the spec get seriously impacted by enemy kiting or your own jousting, but the spec supports a high-contact requirement WORSE than Anni or Rage.

 

Of course it does, like I said up there, Carnage requires a different mindset in playing than Annhilation and Rage do. Although part of what you said is true and I have a feeling this was a hindsight on BW's side. That damage reduction for Rage only does so much. As a melee class we still have to be in melee range but we only need to stay in the 10 m range like Rage does to perform our goals. Annhilation is given a better charge because you HAVE to be in melee range to do your main source of damage and are granted damage if your away(dots) or knocked back.

 

6. CC spam and ****** resolve. While on the bright side, the CC and resolve spam means that your resolve-bypassing root on Deadly Throw is comedy *********** gold in Huttball as the whitebarred ball carrier is walking over that fire pit, it also means that no one gives a **** about that extra Nth random CC. Particularly the healer you want to kill that is already whitebarred from your teammates' CC and/or your own Roar and Choke. This is where Annihilation gets a distinct advantage with its Resolve-immune serious-mode-suppression-called-interrupt-spam.

 

I completely agree with you, Annihilation is much better suited to take on healers, but just because your spec is, doesn't mean all 3 have to be. They are not all the same thing. Rage cant take out a Healer any better than Carnage.

 

7. CC spam and ****** resolve. Part 2, where your narrow fragile window of intense burn DPS execution can be cut short by a plethora of random CC being throw around. Even 1 GCD lost to a CC will negate almost half your Gore window, and put your Berserk stacks at risk from expiration.

 

In one of your epic posts(I said that with no Sarcasm), you stated that the most important thing to a Marauder is observation and awareness of whats going on. This could not be more true with how Gore is designed right now. Its important to note if a Target has used one of those abilities that can decapitate a Gore combo recently to effectively ensure max damage, It also helps to know whether the player. Which makes the short window and 15 second cool down detrimental and why i still agree with you one the problems of Gore. But at the same time, Annihilation is pretty predictable and suffers from range penalties just like Rage and Carnage, if we aren't near our targets we aren't doing damage.

 

TLDR: Carnage's DPS is too fragile. Carnage's durability is too fragile. When Carnage's DPS actually goes off, it is staggered across GCDs.

 

Carnage spec demands team support, and its specific utility (resolve-bypass root, fast target swap instant burst) is only relevant against strong teams. Carnage's only 'niche' is in a premade against other premades. And in that context it is only 'competitive' with the other specs.

 

I wasnt looking for a reason why you felt carnage was underwhelming, but since you wrote that up, ill take the time to respond, in a non flamatory manner. All responses are in Red

[EasymodeX]

Yeah but you arent just sitting there watching your damage proc while dots are up, you are using abilities that use up GCD. Saying we are staggered is an obvious statement. Everyone is "staggered" by it. And it doesn't negatively effect us anymore more than it does anyone else.

 

Not to belabor it, but you're missing the whole statement. Carnage's damage recurs semi-evenly every 1.5 seconds.

 

Annihilation and Rage do NOT, whether you are looking at the application of potential damage or the actual fruition of the damage.

 

When you press Deadly Saber as Annihilation, you have unloaded 5k+ potential damage. Not even on the GCD. When you press DS, BA, Rupture, Annihilate, you don't need to press anything else. The next 5 GCDs can be spent running in circles for all anyone cares because you've already unloaded 80% of your DPS.

 

In Carnage, the application of damage is much more even and steady across GCDs. If you press 4 buttons then run around for 5 seconds, you have lost 50% of your DPS. With Anni, you lose 20%?

 

Rage is halfway in between -- the damage potential is spread out slightly more than Anni, but the damage execution is actually more spikey.

 

 

Yes but Omega smash can only hit every 25 seconds, twice int he same time if Choke is also up.

 

It's up every 9 seconds for 3 cycles, then a pause and then 9 seconds for 3 cycles again.

 

High end Force Screams are only up once every 15 seconds.

 

Perhaps a good way to phrase it is this: Carnage burst cycles are less frequent than Rage/Annihilation. On top of that, Carnage doesn't have a "burst". It has a "high burn" over 4.5-6 seconds.

 

 

It can also be avoided and mitigated from a smart player, and only does more damage in certain circumstances where more than one opponent is nearby. Force Scream is a short ranged move, meaning we can use it on opponents running away.

 

1. OSmash does more damage than Scream.

2. It's available as frequently for 75% of the fight.

3. AOE of course. This is a tradeoff for the uncertainty of landing it correctly (note: smart players can eliminate or reduce the capability of a smart opponent to avoid or mitigate the OSmash).

4. Due to the mechanics and durations of the buffs involved, OSmash is MUCH more resilient against CCs compared to Gore, which is what your 5k+ Scream relies on. Otherwise you have a 3.2k Scream which is the same as Rage gets (although lacking the autocrit).

 

 

That is the function of those specs. You can dot up, or jump in and Burst a hella ton of damage, but Carnage requires a different mindset and slightly different play style. I have noticed a trend lately with People trying different specs that originated from Annihilation and Rage, when they try Carnage they feel weak but it requires a different mindset and tactic than the other two. But big numbers and satisfaction are still there.

 

Carnage was the first spec I played in PvP at level 50 for two weeks. I've returned to it three additional times for at least 2 days each of continuous PvP, after I pick up new weapon tiers.

 

This doesn't have much to do with 'playstyle'. My observations in the post are raw facts and characteristics of the spec.

 

I've hit plenty of 'big numbers' with Carnage. But, it's not worth it. Carnage just can't do what the other specs can do.

 

 

Did you mean we take more damage? Not sure what you meant by this.

 

Carnage damage is healable by enemy healers. Annihilation and Rage are much harder to heal (although they can be mitigated with cleanse).

 

 

Not entirely. The RNG is there, but its there with any class. The majority of my damage comes not from Force Scream, but from Massacre and Ataru.

 

That's exactly what I said. The majority of Carnage damage is centered on Massacre, Ataru, and Scream. Scream has no RNG due to autocrits, but Massacre and Ataru suck up a ton of the DPS output of the spec -- and the spec is balanced on all that DPS output having a +30% crit damage.

 

Annihilation currently does not have "all its eggs in the crit damage basket". Even after the patch, Annihilate will still carry enough weight in the spec that the damage is reliable and not overly reaching for crits.

 

Rage is so-so, because its armor penetration is passive and contributes stability to the damage.

 

 

Also, we are the only spec that can boast 11k damage in 5 seconds(Gore + Ravage + Scream) every 30 seconds.

 

Crush + Smash + Obliterate + Scream. Hello?

 

2x DS3 tick + Annihilate + Rupture ticks?

 

Rage and Annihilation can pull the EXACT same thing every 18 or 15 seconds. And they can do it more reliably, without using Ravage, and without using a 4.5 second buff.

 

 

Not every spec and class is like that, that doesn't mean its bad or broken only that there is more risk and reward with that spec/class.

 

There is more risk, but the reward is not there for Carnage.

 

 

Of course it does, like I said up there, Carnage requires a different mindset in playing than Annhilation and Rage do.

 

Yes, Carnage requires pure tunnelvision "I am being an idiot and doing my best not to avoid enemy damage, line of sight them, etc".

 

 

Rage cant take out a Healer any better than Carnage.

 

Actually, it can because it can time severe burst and execute it much better than Carnage.

 

 

In one of your epic posts(I said that with no Sarcasm), you stated that the most important thing to a Marauder is observation and awareness of whats going on. This could not be more true with how Gore is designed right now. Its important to note if a Target has used one of those abilities that can decapitate a Gore combo recently to effectively ensure max damage,

 

Indeed, but Gore is wayyy too sensitive and easy as hell to neuter by anyone rolling any button across the keyboard. On top of it all, Gore is barely efficient due to its ****** damage and high rage cost.

 

 

I wasnt looking for a reason why you felt carnage was underwhelming, but since you wrote that up,

 

I just thought it was way more interesting to post that rather than continue the asinine "QQMarauderQQ" thread that this started as.

 

 

But, we should turn this into "real changes for Carnage that make it suck less".

 

Like:

 

1. Gore should grant a buff that makes your next 5 rage-spenders penetrate 100% of armor. The buff should last 10-15 seconds. I specifically pick 5 stacks because the implication is that Ataru procs on the abilities would NOT get the armor pen, depending on BioWare's coding constraints. Gore should also be taken off the GCD, or its damage should be increased to match Vicious Slash and its rage cost should be refunded by Enraged Slash. One side-effect here is that Ravage would not longer be affected.

 

2. The rage refund [on Ataru procs] should grant 2 rage, not 1.

 

3. The ****** Fury generation talent should be changed to provide 1 Fury every time Ataru procs.

 

 

Then, it would be suck significantly less, even though the durability problem is left unaddressed.

Edited February 2, 2012 by EasymodeX

[AcaciaDragon]

 

Like:

 

1. Gore should grant a buff that makes your next 5 rage-spenders penetrate 100% of armor. The buff should last 10-15 seconds. I specifically pick 5 stacks because the implication is that Ataru procs on the abilities would NOT get the armor pen, depending on BioWare's coding constraints. Gore should also be taken off the GCD, or its damage should be increased to match Vicious Slash and its rage cost should be refunded by Enraged Slash. One side-effect here is that Ravage would not longer be affected.

 

2. The rage refund [on Ataru procs] should grant 2 rage, not 1.

 

3. The ****** Fury generation talent should be changed to provide 1 Fury every time Ataru procs.

 

 

Then, it would be suck significantly less, even though the durability problem is left unaddressed.

 

As for durability, i would mind an extra chance to avoid damage as are forms are "acrobatic."

 

I completely agree with the other changes, especially to gore. I mentioned the same rage refund idea weeks ago in another post... Its nice to know we agree what would definitely help the spec, even if we don't agree on everything else

[Spiderbubble]

 

But, we should turn this into "real changes for Carnage that make it suck less".

 

Like:

 

1. Gore should grant a buff that makes your next 5 rage-spenders penetrate 100% of armor. The buff should last 10-15 seconds. I specifically pick 5 stacks because the implication is that Ataru procs on the abilities would NOT get the armor pen, depending on BioWare's coding constraints. Gore should also be taken off the GCD, or its damage should be increased to match Vicious Slash and its rage cost should be refunded by Enraged Slash. One side-effect here is that Ravage would not longer be affected.

 

2. The rage refund [on Ataru procs] should grant 2 rage, not 1.

 

3. The ****** Fury generation talent should be changed to provide 1 Fury every time Ataru procs.

 

 

Then, it would be suck significantly less, even though the durability problem is left unaddressed.

 

Bioware should read this if they want some actual ideas for Carnage.

 

I absolutely adore Carnage, but I admit that Annihilation is way better. I don't like the playstyle of Rage, so I'll rarely, if ever, go back to using it.

 

I am honestly surprised that Ataru doesn't have more flashy versions of at least Assault. I want to do Yoda flips while playing Carnage. Of course, this is second to actually fixing the tree to be on-par with the others.

 

If Carnage gets even the slightest buff (probably involving Gore) I'll probably go back to it.

[Venomoss]

I have no prob staying alive, you have plenty of resources to use to get in, kill, and get out, I love my Mara, Anni spec, stop crying and yeah you guessed it L2P.

[GrizzlyLCS]

I hardly ever post in forums, but the logic is just so flawed in this thread. I have heard over and over that mara is targeted first because they are un-able to do anything and die fast. Though it may be true that mara will die fast if focused, the reason they are being focused is because if left alone they will destroy you. Truth is, with most people that know how to pvp, you want to take out the people that will be the biggest threat to you first.

 

Also off topic, somebody was saying that assassin tanks were light armor and therefore in their logic take more damage, the difference is that assassin tanks have more avoidance therefore a larger lack in the need of armor. Its like having a fulling armored knight fight a ninja, the ninja is gonna have trouble dealing damage through the armor, the knight has trouble hitting the ninja.

 

Anyways I have no authority in the subject since I play jugger, but just from your statements saying that mara is targeted first leads me to believe that they are the bigger threat.

 

P.S. if you over extend a lot then you have nobody to blame but yourself for being focus, you are just vsing the TAB monster.

[Stonedform]

I'm generally targeted first, regardless of the class I play. I can't be allowed to run free, because I WILL ruin your day.

 

 

 

We are not highest DPS? I don't know. Without combat logs it's hard to say, but I'm pretty sure my Mara has highest sustained DPS of any class I played so far. But a fairly considerable margin of 10-15%, at the minimum.

 

Shields are virtually useless in PvP. You'll see many tanks (especially Sin tanks) dropping it in favour of focus offhand. Armor is highly overrated as well, and heavy armor is but one step removed from medium. Go look at Deception Sins running around in light, and also in melee range with a lot less susained DPS if you want to see broken.

 

 

 

Maras are one of the few classes that is hard/impossible to kite. We do lose the ability to shoot from range. But we can cover 30m nearly instantly every 10-15 seconds, depending on spec this can be done twice back to back. Conveniently enough, our gap closer also generates rage for the initial burst.

 

 

 

Plenty of CC. Choke, AoE fear, slow, roots, slice droid. Any more than that, and the class might be overpowered.

 

Although, truth be told, I would LOOOOVE a pull spell with a 30m range, so I could set up delicious 1v1s. Yum... Too bad it's never going to happen.

 

 

 

True. And I hoped when Bioware said they knew about it about a month ago they would actually...like...DO something about it? I guess I was expecting too much.

 

 

 

When 2-3 people single you down, you DIE. It doesn't matter what class you are. You're dead. D.E.A.D. Dead. As it should be. If you are being guarded and healed though, those people are in for some serious *** forking. It's called TEAMWORK. T.E.A.M. W.O.R.K. The 2-3 guys focusing you, they're doing it right. Your team letting you die does not.

 

P.S. Spec Annihilation.

Everything wrong with the way most people play this class all summed up by a guy playing the class wrong. Nice.

 

Spec rage. Always win. Never die. 1v2? A JOKE. 1v3+? 45 second shield wall 45 second vanish and a heal when you trinket the final cc that usually keeps you up after shield wall and during stealth. Never die. If you're dying, you better be out of cooldowns and low hp with people jumping you (i.e. you just won a 1v2. You're running to heal. Oops scoundrel/operative/assassin/shadow). Otherwise, you were not properly using your abilities. You are a self-launching cannon of pure glory. And you have guaranteed escapes every 45 seconds.

 

No wait. Ignore me. Annihilation is the best. Please stay that spec. Rage sucks. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[Nmaharg]

Maybe you are, but I'm not. I dominate every single person on my server 1 v 1 outside of other skilled marauder and a few operatives. Me dieing more than 5 times in a very rare.

[CrazyAl]

Everything wrong with the way most people play this class all summed up by a guy playing the class wrong. Nice.

 

Spec rage. Always win. Never die. 1v2? A JOKE. 1v3+? 45 second shield wall 45 second vanish and a heal when you trinket the final cc that usually keeps you up after shield wall and during stealth. Never die. If you're dying, you better be out of cooldowns and low hp with people jumping you (i.e. you just won a 1v2. You're running to heal. Oops scoundrel/operative/assassin/shadow). Otherwise, you were not properly using your abilities. You are a self-launching cannon of pure glory. And you have guaranteed escapes every 45 seconds.

 

No wait. Ignore me. Annihilation is the best. Please stay that spec. Rage sucks. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

 

when people say stuff like this its no wonder that the "marauders suck" people think that the rest of us are full of ****

 

you would have to be delusional to believe that the things you say here are actually true

 

this post is so full of wildly exaggerated claims that i cant help but sympathize with the "marauders suck" group, they come to the forums to QQ about our class and see crap like this and dont even begin to believe it (rightly so) and they assume they are justified in feeling like we are broken

 

being honest about the class will help our case much more than this drivel

[Nmaharg]

when people say stuff like this its no wonder that the "marauders suck" people think that the rest of us are full of ****

 

you would have to be delusional to believe that the things you say here are actually true

 

this post is so full of wildly exaggerated claims that i cant help but sympathize with the "marauders suck" group, they come to the forums to QQ about our class and see crap like this and dont even begin to believe it (rightly so) and they assume they are justified in feeling like we are broken

 

being honest about the class will help our case much more than this drivel

 

Nothing he said wasn't true. It's impossible to kill me 1 v 1 if I have all my cooldowns. IMPOSSIBLE! Unless of course you're also a marauder, or a operative who can stun lock me.

 

Even 1v2 I'm a hard *** kill.

[Warlordomega]

You Anni then? If this game was balanced, you wouldn't say something like Carnage Problem #1... it's supposed to be a DPS monster. Two friggin light sabers with great burst potential. Anni deals more DPS, they are supposed to be DoT.

 

dps is based on dot....500k/15 mins=900 seconds soo500k/900=555.55 dps was your average dps.. now as carnage not having bleeds u rely on raw dmg which means u require staying on target 100 percent of the time... if you dont make you roots/cc's count then you lose out on dmg aka dot aka dps

[Munx]

Gone 1v6 with carnage and walked out alive, with more then my share of blood on my sabers.

 

People need to stop underestimating Carnage, its a mistake my guilidies often make, and often suffer for.

 

Carnage does how ever have a EVEN higher learning curve for perfecting, for carnage to be better then anni, every attack needs to be executed at the right time etc,

 

Not to mention your stats need to be built for it, Carnage requires balanced stats.

 

Saying that carnage is situational is just not true.

 

Well geared you can frequently crit for 2k with massacre + proc without gore.

 

How ever there is a bug with Massacre which cause its damage sometimes to drop well below its own base damage, which hopefully devs will fix at some point.

 

Even so, If played correctly carnage has INSANE potential, and there is absolutely no class that can dominate tank specs like a marauder who times his gore well.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Munx

[CrazyAl]

Nothing he said wasn't true. It's impossible to kill me 1 v 1 if I have all my cooldowns. IMPOSSIBLE! Unless of course you're also a marauder, or a operative who can stun lock me.

 

Even 1v2 I'm a hard *** kill.

 

1v2 a joke??? yea, the jokes on you because those 2 players are bad if its that easy for you

 

1v3?? same as above, but even more so

 

unkillable? certainly not

 

guaranteed escape every 45 seconds?? nope, easy to guess where your gonna run and finish you off after camo ends

 

45 second shield wall? not even sure what abilities hes talkin about there, the only one we have that resembles shield wall is cloak of pain, its a min CD, and can last as few as 6 seconds if the enemy is smart

[Warlordomega]

1v2 a joke??? yea, the jokes on you because those 2 players are bad if its that easy for you

 

1v3?? same as above, but even more so

 

unkillable? certainly not

 

guaranteed escape every 45 seconds?? nope, easy to guess where your gonna run and finish you off after camo ends

 

45 second shield wall? not even sure what abilities hes talkin about there, the only one we have that resembles shield wall is cloak of pain, its a min CD, and can last as few as 6 seconds if the enemy is smart

 

ummm then im sorry u cant 1v2 someone.. maras def have the ability. as for cop, if the enemy is DUMB enough to wait 6 seconds to let it drop it lets us put more of a deference in our health nuff said. and i wish i could see u try and pinpoint me when i pop cloak... would never happen

Edited February 3, 2012 by Warlordomega

[Selixx]

ummm then im sorry u cant 1v2 someone.. maras def have the ability. as for cop, if the enemy is DUMB enough to wait 6 seconds to let it drop it lets us put more of a deference in our health nuff said. and i wish i could see u try and pinpoint me when i pop cloak... would never happen

 

More arrogant drivel being spouted. I have 1v1'd Rage Marauders as a Carnage/Rage/Annihilation Marauder aplenty, and I assure you, for 1v1 it is the weakest spec of all 3. Predicting the smash is easy, and dodging or negating the damage is easy; especially as Anni. Force Camo to a smash = 0 dmg, and if you miss even 1 smash...it's gg.

[Irishbrewed]

You mean you read a thread where someone said you were weak..okay

[doctorfirepants]

1v2 a joke??? yea, the jokes on you because those 2 players are bad if its that easy for you

 

1v3?? same as above, but even more so

 

unkillable? certainly not

 

guaranteed escape every 45 seconds?? nope, easy to guess where your gonna run and finish you off after camo ends

 

45 second shield wall? not even sure what abilities hes talkin about there, the only one we have that resembles shield wall is cloak of pain, its a min CD, and can last as few as 6 seconds if the enemy is smart

 

Maybe your the joke. Only guaranteed death for me is 3v1 (if I don't simply escape that is). 2v1 there's a very good chance I will kill at least one before I go down and a good chance I will kill both and simply walk away and heal up. 1v1 and it's a simple kill for me.

 

As far as escaping with camo, well if it's only one or two people I don't use it to escape, just use it to pop my med pack and berserk then open up with my bleeds. Next thing I'm healed and they are dead. If it is a large group, pop camo and hit predation...gone. Not that hard to figure out. Is it gonna work all the time? Nope, but it sure does most of the time. L2p...it's a great class in the right hands.

[CrazyAl]

ummm then im sorry u cant 1v2 someone.. maras def have the ability. as for cop, if the enemy is DUMB enough to wait 6 seconds to let it drop it lets us put more of a deference in our health nuff said. and i wish i could see u try and pinpoint me when i pop cloak... would never happen

 

 

 

Maybe your the joke. Only guaranteed death for me is 3v1 (if I don't simply escape that is). 2v1 there's a very good chance I will kill at least one before I go down and a good chance I will kill both and simply walk away and heal up. 1v1 and it's a simple kill for me.

 

As far as escaping with camo, well if it's only one or two people I don't use it to escape, just use it to pop my med pack and berserk then open up with my bleeds. Next thing I'm healed and they are dead. If it is a large group, pop camo and hit predation...gone. Not that hard to figure out. Is it gonna work all the time? Nope, but it sure does most of the time. L2p...it's a great class in the right hands.

 

clearly neither of you read my first post, the one that some one replied to, to which i replied again, which is the one you quoted

 

i can certainly 1v2 people ... and even live most of the time ... but to say its so easy its a joke, not in a million years ... unless they are 2 braindead keyboard turners

 

it takes every CD you have to win a 1v2

 

and if you pop CoP other classes can definitely stun you and wait it out, and good players do so quite frequently

 

and with camo ... yea, i escape alot, most of the time even, but its far from guaranteed, if im tying to escape someone with 30m big hits you pretty much have to predation first, if they have half a brain they will find you and kill you when camo ends

 

learn what you are responding to before you post ... i have L'd2P, i love my marauder, its fine, and im pretty damn good with it

 

but BS is BS no matter what side of the fence its on

 

and people exaggerating (greatly in this case) the truth does nothing to dissuade the QQers, infact it makes it worse because its not believeable

Edited February 3, 2012 by CrazyAl

[Deviltreh]

1. We are generally targeted first and ganked upon (being considered an easy kill)

2. We are not the highest DPS, yet we are strictly a dps class... sacrificing a shield (and Heavy Armor) for a second lightsaber that doesn't pay for itself in damage--The main hand being the primary damage dealer.

3. We are a melee dominate class, losing much opportunity to ranged, kiters, and players good at staying behind us (Force Scream hard to get off/interrupts Ravage) We also need to build rage to deal burst DPS (a pain when taking damage well before we get into melee range)

4. no CC's; no push/pulls

5. Priority rotations with difficult CDs and timings

1. Force Camo and re-engage, most bad players will TAB target someone else and won't retarget untill their new target is dead. And in this zergfest everyone will go down as long as enough people are targeting them. You atleast can use Undying Rage.

 

2. DPS Powertechs, Juggernauts also sacrifice a shield - offhands with better offensive stats > 5% block chance.................

 

3. Force Charge, Force Camo, Predation. Carnage has two roots.

 

4. 15% group increased damage/healing, group sprint, 20% healing debuff

 

5. Holly hell, go try playing a druid in wow, I bet your head will be blown off by the number of skills that you use... swtor has so little skills in pvp to use and still some idiots complain "qq too much skills". Yeah compared to Lightning Sorcerers or Advanced Prototype Powertechs, compared to real games - pitty.

guaranteed escape every 45 seconds?? nope, easy to guess where your gonna run and finish you off after camo ends

Ahh you're that noob Spy in TF2 I always blow up with my rockets after he vanishes. :DDDD l2p

45 second shield wall? not even sure what abilities hes talkin about there, the only one we have that resembles shield wall is cloak of pain, its a min CD, and can last as few as 6 seconds if the enemy is smart

Not attacking a Marauder for 6 seconds while he carves the flesh off your bones... Dunno, pathetic 20% damage reduction just isn't worth that imo.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Deviltreh