fixit Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Well you'd be wrong. Operatives are decent healers with the heals over time. But when it comes down to the crunch of pvp (and I mean warzones here because ofc there is no pvp outside of warzones) , they have very little survivability in comparison to sorcs and mercs and also have 0 utility (i.e knockbacks / sprints / jumps). At this point some may argue "you have stealth / vanish ) but if you spec into healing your vanish isn't viable at all in pvp as it stops you from being able to heal yourself or anyone else for 10 secs. Also add in fact that Medical Therapy does NOT work makes it even worse. Heal ops are 1/2 healer to a sorc. They refuse to fix the med tree, simply just ignore it entirely. Best game I had yesterday was 5 of the main PvP agents all in one game on same team vs 8 sorcs. We lost 6-0: it was impossible to catch their ballcarriers, they just KD us all over the place and merrily force pulling each other around; it was pretty stupid. On plus side we killed the crap outa stragglers so that loss wasn't so bad because of the 'revenge' factor. Snik snik snik snik DIE SORC WHO WHINED AND GOT US NERFED!!11!! By the by, conceal spec Ops: you still rofl stomp my heal ops cus its better to stab stunlock me to death than the sorc you can't ever kill. /sigh p.s. stop stabbing me please! Edited February 2, 2012 by fixit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojaix Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I guess it sucks now that people actually have a chance to survive after the initial shot. Now once they get sorcerers and mercs toned down some we might be alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You get to pick your fights, have escape and can dish out a health deficit during stuns that is borderline retarded. I'm not seeing what the problem is. Play something else maybe so you can appreciate what you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The good ops are still good. The bad ones had their easy mode removed and now suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffnblue Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The good ops are still good. The bad ones had their easy mode removed and now suck. Really? Perhaps the ones that already have full expertise gear, and access to top tier adrenals/buffs But at level 47 i have a very hard time killing anyone. I never got to experience the 3 hit wonders tht existed, but im only hitting people for 1300s hiddenstrike, occasionally ill get a 2k hit, while my shivs hit for 700s and my lacerates hit for 800s. Im in level 47 all orange gear that ive modded to max cunning, crit, and power. So im of the mindset that it is expertise that imbalances classes, not the class skillsets themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 You do not balance based on lvl 47 players fighting lvl 10 players. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipsemeter Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Signed, the nerf wasn't needed to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorschy Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 cant even distinguish flamethrower(a channeled ability) from Inferno and Flame Burst(instants) but trying to come off as a smart know it all ... love that. ok i rewatched the vid, he did not use flamethrower, BUT no kiting is FAIL you kind deny that ! And another fact, the PT is Advanced Prototype specced, the scoundrel has the opener, the scoundrel survives by 3k HP .. PT used shield way to late, didn't kite although he has superior mobility / stunimmunity if deep AP specced and can deal more dmg from range .. So what now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labradoraki Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 OPS were the SQUISHIEST CLASS INgame... the only way to balance it was to have huge offense and kill before they get killed.... Now you dont have enough damage to kill sometime and the only thing you cna do is run around after unleashing your first bust of all skills which does ONLY 7K DAMAGE total... 9k more health left when they can anihilate you because ur the squishiest class ingame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karcyon Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) /signed but the odds are against us. There are just not enough Operatives/Scoundrels! For every Operative/Scoundrel that says the nerf was too much there are 6 other classes that want us even more nerfed. Imagine the outrage if Sorcerers/Sages got nerfed. The forum would break down. What I still don't get is why people cry about nerfs if we have mirrored classes. PvP is not about 1vs1. If you say 'nerf Ops' you might as well say 'nerf my team' because it would effect Scoundrels as well. In both cases it evens out at the end but wouldn't you rather have a good team mate instead of a mediocre? Edited February 3, 2012 by karcyon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 they have to be nerfed even more operatives are still very good when it comes to killing L2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzen Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Operatives have been nerfed completely, the concealment spec is too weak... You can barely kill clothies and automatically lose vs heavy armored opponents... You are weak an others know it so since you are melee you are one of the first targets for noob tracer spam /SIGNED Pfffhahahaahaha.....ah...funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkrite Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) /signed Bioware nerfed Scoundrel/Operative burst damage without offering a sustained damage option in the same spec tree. This is the primary issue. I absolutely can not wait until you all start complaining about marauders and sentinels next, with their huge 4-6k burst damage, massive CCs, ability to stealth out of combat (the "safety net" we've been accused of having as ops/scounds; which is ridiculous for a class that's not meant to stealth), because it's definitely the ones you should have been viewing in the first place. I digress though; I forgot how many saber wielding players there are vs. blaster types in the game. Why would they report on themselves and how much burst/sustained damage they have in a fight? Edited February 3, 2012 by Darkrite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoDiE Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Lol, ops need a further nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vant Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Operatives have been nerfed completely, the concealment spec is too weak... You can barely kill clothies and automatically lose vs heavy armored opponents... You are weak an others know it so since you are melee you are one of the first targets for noob tracer spam /SIGNED I am not signing this, but I will say that in order to hit with the power that I want to hit, I completely respec'd my profession to BioChem. Apparently, all Scoundrels/Operatives who want to deal real damage are going to need it. Consumables were the issue from the start, not Operatives and not Scoundrels. I do find it fun now that I can knockdown and then immediately stun for a full duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivus Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I am not signing this, but I will say that in order to hit with the power that I want to hit, I completely respec'd my profession to BioChem. Apparently, all Scoundrels/Operatives who want to deal real damage are going to need it. Consumables were the issue from the start, not Operatives and not Scoundrels. I do find it fun now that I can knockdown and then immediately stun for a full duration. This. Ops wanting this change reverted are just bad, because now you get a longer stun, and the ability to hit hard with consumables. Consumables (and expertise) were the issues all along, but bioware put a bandaid over the cut without addressing the infection beneath. As a result good ops with biochem remain just as good, if not better, while ops without biochem and poor ops just cry because they can no longer faceroll. The real victims of this patch are the PVE ops and scoundrels. Bioware ripped their burst away without giving a viable pure DPS alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PloGreen Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 No i wont sign that. Dont be silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fdzzaigl Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Entirely disagreed. Well geared operatives are still pulling very strong burst out of their opener, I even had a biochem and trinketed operative still take away 3/4 of my 19k health (500 xpertise). A typical burst will be two shots of 2k damage followed by possibly another 2k and dot damage. More than enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkrite Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Go look at vids of marauders, sents and commando/merc sustained damage. This game is a joke. Not to mention the over abundance of CC to include pushes. Laughable game. Laughable. Unsubbed as of a week ago. The community is definitely WoWish in nature. Get the "rogue class" nerfed first, because you just know they're the major problem on the field right? Yeah...we have a DK class essentially, and a fury warrior class that CCs and stealth escapes with 3x the sustained damage output as your "rogues". F this game and the trolls that rode in on it. Edited February 3, 2012 by Darkrite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbonated Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 *signs with fake sig* there you go buddy *thumbs up* good as gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fdzzaigl Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Go look at vids of marauders, sents and commando/merc sustained damage. This game is a joke. Not to mention the over abundance of CC to include pushes. Laughable game. Laughable. Unsubbed as of a week ago. The community is definitely WoWish in nature. Get the "rogue class" nerfed first, because you just know they're the major problem on the field right? Yeah...we have a DK class essentially, and a fury warrior class that CCs and stealth escapes with 3x the sustained damage output as your "rogues". F this game and the trolls that rode in on it. Because rogues were the first class in WoW to ever get nerfed, yeah right. I agree on knockbacks, I sometimes feel like a ping-pong ball in huttball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YanksfanJP Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 and what happens when you dont use those... Your absolutely worthless... Balance should be about a class and not class+profession!!! pebcak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkrite Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Because rogues were the first class in WoW to ever get nerfed, yeah right. I agree on knockbacks, I sometimes feel like a ping-pong ball in huttball. No, they weren't, you're right. Did BW/EA offer anything to balance out the class besides a major nerf bomb to it though? No. When sap was initially nerfed on rogues in 1.1.1 of WoW, they also gave them safe fall, and other abilities to equal out the hit. Thus making the players of that class feel like they gained as well as lost. This nerf was targeted with no real statistic given as to why. Truth is, the knockdown needed to be taken down by 1.5s I think the majority of ops/scounds could agree that was OP, but instead of balancing out our burst damage with some sort of sustained, they just left it as "Here's 100 energy (105 with 4 set champ or BM, lol suckers), with lower burst. Good luck against heavies and those with absorbs and tons of CC. Oh wait...that's just about...well everyone else. So good luck." It just doesn't equal out. EDIT: They could balance by cutting the massive cost of our abilities so we could actually stay in a fight, but noooo that would be asking too much. Edited February 3, 2012 by Darkrite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Cruiser Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 No, don't buff Operatives. You feel like you need BioChem to compete? Welcome to SWTOR PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) No, they weren't, you're right. Did BW/EA offer anything to balance out the class besides a major nerf bomb to it though? No. When sap was initially nerfed on rogues in 1.1.1 of WoW, they also gave them safe fall, and other abilities to equal out the hit. Thus making the players of that class feel like they gained as well as lost. This nerf was targeted with no real statistic given as to why. Truth is, the knockdown needed to be taken down by 1.5s I think the majority of ops/scounds could agree that was OP, but instead of balancing out our burst damage with some sort of sustained, they just left it as "Here's 100 energy (105 with 4 set champ or BM, lol suckers), with lower burst. Good luck against heavies and those with absorbs and tons of CC. Oh wait...that's just about...well everyone else. So good luck." It just doesn't equal out. EDIT: They could balance by cutting the massive cost of our abilities so we could actually stay in a fight, but noooo that would be asking too much. In tank stance I was taking up to 16k damage in a few seconds by geared operatives before the patch. I understand if some Operatives feel the nerf is a little too much, but do you think it's fair to kill a tank in only a few seconds? BTW Shadows are a lot more like WoW Rogues. Stunlocking and sustained damage, with back-end burst. Scoundrel/Operative were some other class that could run around and automatically fight and win any 1vs1 they wanted. I still see Operatives and Scoundrels tearing up, they're just not faceroll anymore. Targets with heavy armor, shields, bubbles, etc SHOULD be hard to kill. Welcome to every other class in the game. Edited February 3, 2012 by savionen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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