MediusMajere Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Firstly about elites. There are far too many of them! When you make an elite it's supposed to be elite for a reason. Yet several times you run into non-force wielding droids that look like twigs with elite status. I'm thinking: What on earth would make such a thing elite? Is it really a magical dragon disguised as a droid? Does it have strange droid-force powers that would blow anyone away? Is there a reason why this mob is tougher than my main character? Most of the time the answer is: No, there is no reason for this mob to be an elite. Other than that it has to be elite to balance out the fact that I have a companion. That brings me to companions. You said that one of the things you wanted to do with ToR is to make it feel more epic. That ganging up on someone doesn't feel very heroic. And you're absolutely right. It doesn't feel very heroic that I have to use my companion for every single elite out there. Elites being the new normal mob as you've got so many of them! Because you give elite status to any and all mobs so freely it means that the player relies heavily on his or her companion to get anything done. And you can't even use the companion you want to use. As a dps or healer you HAVE to use a tank companion. As a tank you HAVE to use a healing companion. The complete reliance on companion characters makes the game feel a lot less epic. I remember battling Darth Thanaton at the end of the inq solo content where I've gathered power all across the galaxy.... and spending most of my time healing my companion. That did not feel very epic. It felt like ganging up on an old man because someone wanted to make balanced PvE solo content and had to take using a tank companion into consideration. Not to mention that some of the elite mobs are ridiculously hard. I'm talking about the elites that are marked as soloable and part as solo content quests. I barely made it through some of the "solo" quest on Voss simply because the elites fought like they were boss mobs and I forgot to bring a group. One "solo" quest on Voss I had to line of sight bug the elite because its casts were simply too strong for me to either keep my tank companion healed or dps down before it killed both of us. The whole of Voss in general didn't feel very epic. Voss felt more like I was some fool stumbled into a Krayt Dragon's nest and I was being an idiot for staying. What I think would make ToR truly shine would be to unbalance PvE! And what I mean by that is that you should allow players to use whatever companion they feel like. Or not use a companion at all! I would love for my adventures in ToR to feel actually epic and not just gimped from developers trying to balance that I CAN use a tank companion. I want the freedom to use Ashara Zavros for anything other than a romantic interest. I want to be able to NOT use a tank companion and still be able to do "soloable" content! Because right now companions feel like you are useless without them. And being useless without your companion at your side does not feel very epic. And it would be lovely if you would implement som kind of way of getting my companions geared with 116 rating gear after I've finished all the quests. Because trolling the AH to gear up companions is not a game feature that is especially fun or satisfying. (Other than the single Lights Out quest on Belsavis for a comp weapon, that is. You should make more quests like that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitharen Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Just do away with companions aiding in combat. Let them craft for you, do missions, sell your vendor trash and follow you around like neat little pets. But don't let them engage in combat. This would truly bring balance to the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineschmidt Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I gotta say i don't recognize the issues you described. So far i've had no problems soloing elites for quests. Sure once in a while my companion dies during the fight but at that point it's easy to take the elite down Maybe it's a combination of your spec and choice of companion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areto Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 As a juggernaut I can use either one of my dps companions or my healer, and if I really wanted to I could use a tank, although it would be slower. So I disagree, this might be an l2play situation. Also I'm not sure what you mean by an elite but I can beat a strong enemy and maybe 2 or 3 normals without my companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediusMajere Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) It might just be that playing a sith sorcerer with the cookie cutter lightning spec is completely gimped then. That is also a possibility. xD It's not a l2p issue. I've done most of the heroicmode raids in WoW and I have been playing MMOs since I was 16. I've got more MMO experience than most. (I'm 24 now, btw) Edited February 2, 2012 by MediusMajere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfadozen Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I gotta say i don't recognize the issues you described. So far i've had no problems soloing elites for quests. Sure once in a while my companion dies during the fight but at that point it's easy to take the elite down Maybe it's a combination of your spec and choice of companion? Ditto. My companion will more than likely die during the fight, but by that time it's done it's job and I can finish off the elite on my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) At times when I have found mobs hitting my companion harder than I could heal, I got better armor for my companion and the problem went away. If your companion is already geared in appropriate-level purple gear and it still isn't working, then maybe you should try a different companion? That said, even with good gear, I sometimes find the gold star mobs hard to kill, especially certain quest mobs. Edited February 2, 2012 by sjmc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaphael Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It's not a l2p issue. I've done most of the heroicmode raids in WoW and I have been playing MMOs since I was 16. I've got more MMO experience than most. (I'm 24 now, btw) But still just as much SWToR experience as everyone else, which is all that counts. I play Sin in Tank spec, and I do just fine with Ashara dps'ing. I don't NEED a healing companion at all. And if they were to make companions optional and not required for content then that would automatically make using them overpowered as hell. If a mob could be solo'ed without a companion, fighting it WITH a companion would make all PvE become easy mode (much more than it already is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclekaula Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Come on guys, elites are not tough at all. I cant even tell if the OP is serious.... Im not sure if its the class thats being played or what, but on my imm jugg, doesnt matter what I'm doing (heroic/solo), I always come out of a fight feeling like a boss. On my Sith sorc dps, I'm always doing 30 diff things at a time (cc/dps/heal) so elites/multi mobs fights feel epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pexxle Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) It might just be that playing a sith sorcerer with the cookie cutter lightning spec is completely gimped then. That is also a possibility. xD It's not a l2p issue. I've done most of the heroicmode raids in WoW and I have been playing MMOs since I was 16. I've got more MMO experience than most. (I'm 24 now, btw) Hey grats! I'm 32 and have been playing MMO's since I was 16. I think you are right to a degree but are missing a sense of scale. What is the first thing that sets this game aside from others? It's based on Star Wars. In the end, it's a still "just a game" no matter how anyone wants to spin it, and games* require rules (limits), and objectives. That said, any fan of Star Wars knows what a Jedi/ Sith Lord etc. is capable of. I'm not trying to bash your opinion, but you tell me how to make a game full of people running around damn near invincible. That's my point, INVINCIBLE, the magical Force, deflecting anything shot at them while hurling Star Ships with a little focus in a matter of seconds. Sounds great, but for people paying monthly that would only appease people easily entertained. You wouldn't need a group, you wouldn't need help, well maybe ONE other person... Apply this to any fictional story or character, one such as Superman. EVERY Superman game, whether its thought to be good or bad, reaches a point where you say, "why doesn't he just do xyz??" Why? Because it is a game designed to SOMEHOW challenge the masses that have bought it. Not trying to talk in a condescending fashion but your thoughts on Elites are touched on up above. The game has to have some sort of mechanic to combat the fictional power of Star Wars. Notice when the mobs are not Elite how you blow through them all like paper in a hurricane? You have a point but its bad enough ppl Troll about being 50 with nothing to do, last thing THIS GAME needs is an EZ mode grind. Oh, not to mention many have become a Light Armor squishy hearing stories of power, and feel let down when they realize they really can't take a beating. Hopefully you are enjoying the choices you've made all around, overall. (( You claim experience, but with NO external influence, just seeing the 3 grades of Armor class, light, medium etc; I knew to lean towards what I'd be comfortable in. )) Edited February 2, 2012 by Pexxle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediusMajere Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Don't get me wrong. I like how they've implemented group mechanics into solo play. But it often feels more like content is hard because I have a companion as opposed to bringing a companion because the content is hard. And yes, usually you can just burn down the elite before your companion dies. And being a tank is quite different to being a sorcerer I think. You don't last very long against elites as a light armor dps. My complaint is that on Thanaton and other actually hard mobs that I couldn't burn down before my comp died I was reduced to simply a healer in a dps spec. Out of place and out of style. I did solo a 4-man boss mob on my jedi sage (healer) the other day.. and noone seems to be having problems as tanks either from what I read in this thread. So it must just be a dps sorc issue. Edited February 2, 2012 by MediusMajere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rantank Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I think the quest/elite on Voss you're talking about was this one. http://www.torhead.com/mission/9N4OJM0/a-long-forgotten-evil#comments Definitely an interesting fight and overtuned if LOS bugging it wasnt the intention. Many different mobs are tagged as elites that don't seem to be, and sometimes an elite can be very tough.. like this one was. If you are always grouped for these quests then they seem really easy but solo... it can be a little harder than intended I think. To be honest the hardest ones I've found, other than that guy on Voss, was the 3 regular mob packs in Corellia.. where two of them are healers. Who thought that was a good idea.... Edited February 2, 2012 by Rantank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfadozen Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hey grats! I'm 32 and have been playing MMO's since I was 16. I think you are right to a degree but are missing a sense of scale. What is the first thing that sets this game aside from others? It's based on Star Wars. In the end, it's a still "just a game" no matter how anyone wants to spin it, and games* require rules (limits), and objectives. That said, any fan of Star Wars knows what a Jedi/ Sith Lord etc. is capable of. I'm not trying to bash your opinion, but you tell me how to make a game full of people running around damn near invincible. That's my point, INVINCIBLE, the magical Force, deflecting anything shot at them while hurling Star Ships with a little focus in a matter of seconds. Sounds great, but for people paying monthly that would only appease people easily entertained. You wouldn't need a group, you wouldn't need help, well maybe ONE other person... Apply this to any fictional story or character, one such as Superman. EVERY Superman game, whether its thought to be good or bad, reaches a point where you say, "why doesn't he just do xyz??" Why? Because it is a game designed to SOMEHOW challenge the masses that have bought it. Not trying to talk in a condescending fashion but your thoughts on Elites are touched on up above. The game has to have some sort of mechanic to combat the fictional power of Star Wars. Notice when the mobs are not Elite how you blow through them all like paper in a hurricane? You have a point but its bad enough ppl Troll about being 50 with nothing to do, last thing THIS GAME needs is an EZ mode grind. Oh, not to mention many have become a Light Armor squishy hearing stories of power, and feel let down when they realize they really can't take a beating. Hopefully you are enjoying the choices you've made all around, overall. (( You claim experience, but with NO external influence, just seeing the 3 grades of Armor class, light, medium etc; I knew to lean towards what I'd be comfortable in. )) This. Well said. You are so right it hurts me when others don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediusMajere Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) He is exactly right. Yes. Games should challenge you! I remember doing Halls of Stone heroic at the end of Wrath of the Litch King with my mage and a mage friend and each of us soloing a wing and boss each. Simply because our DPS was so ridiculous. That wasn't fun. Other than maybe the first two-tree times. But a challenge should be something constructive. Not just a matter how how much brute force can your class bring to the table. As a healer I've not encountered a single problem in doing any of the content up to lvl 32. Actually I spend so little time healing my companions that I do more dps as a healer than I did as a dps sorc. That is kind of funny. xD Edited February 2, 2012 by MediusMajere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash-X Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Try being a healer with a healing companion...Most times you feel invincible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erevan_Kindelar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It might just be that playing a sith sorcerer with the cookie cutter lightning spec is completely gimped then. That is also a possibility. xD It's not a l2p issue. I've done most of the heroicmode raids in WoW and I have been playing MMOs since I was 16. I've got more MMO experience than most. (I'm 24 now, btw) Sorry Medius, this IS a l2p situation. I have a Jedi Sage, a Sith Sorcerer and a Sith Assassin with the Sage and Sorcerer specced for healing and the Assassin specced Madness for DPS. All of them wipe Elites and smear them against the walls. I have some problems with Champions, but the problems are down to my Force pool depleting as I sometimes get excited and spam the attacks too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediusMajere Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Sorry Medius, this IS a l2p situation. I have a Jedi Sage, a Sith Sorcerer and a Sith Assassin with the Sage and Sorcerer specced for healing and the Assassin specced Madness for DPS. All of them wipe Elites and smear them against the walls. I have some problems with Champions, but the problems are down to my Force pool depleting as I sometimes get excited and spam the attacks too much. Oh, so you don't play a lightning sorcerer then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scandana Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 As an agent, I have been using either Kaliyo, Raina, or Dr Lokin for the most part. Lately just Raina, and Lokin (spoiler involving Kaliyo). Usually if I am going up against trash mobs, I let Raina at it (since she finds winning "fantastic"), and I opt to heal her as often as I can, while dealing my own dps goodness. If we come up against an elite... it's Lokin time. He gets set on healbot, and I do the tanking... on my agent... set up for heals. A lot of the times, this works. I can solo anything except the Corellia heroic 4s. Usually I will want my friends in on that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediusMajere Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Aye. I get the feeling that there really isn't anything wrong with the companions or elites. I just need to respec healing and enjoy. xD Edited February 2, 2012 by MediusMajere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirrexx Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) From my point of view, it s hard to play whit no companion after level 30. You are companion dependant after lvl 30 in pve. And the only companion usefull is the healer... Keep him geared, follow your story, do the story quest and side quests and you ll level like a breeze. No need to do Heroic or Flashpoint. Edited February 2, 2012 by Tirrexx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan_Pride Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 i can agree on the voss elite...2 of them were quite difficult. after having to spent like 15min each time to get back to the boss i got tired and invited a guild mate...then it was easy. its quite a problem if you try out different companions that you gain so not all have the really best gear and you cant really afford to equip them all well the same time while leveling up. my guild mate had problems but did manage it alone cause he stayed with his first companion till the end...which was his obvious choice as a healer specced inquisitor (khem-val). so voss could need a little tweaking... and yes...its sometimes like champions online....you are a powerful being...but everywhere there are mobs that can still kick your butt if you dont have a well equipped companion with you...no matter if you are darth or not. this makes you feel less strong, less epic as they intended. i wish they would at least implant the difficult choice system of city of heroes for your own quests, even if it would be only for your own instances. elites are fine if they would be a little more rare, i rather have more lt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolfusis Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You're still using what you think of as "elite" from WoW. Those elites are now "Champions." Normal elites are.... well, just that. They're some of the strongest mobs you can fight at that level. They are the elite of whatever enemy you are fighting. As for companions - your character is not an unstoppable juggernaut of doom and destruction. Sorry. Normal people can flock to you in waves and be cut down, but an assassin droid would still be problematic. A strong mandalorian would still be one of the tougher fights you've had. You need help to keep from getting your *** handed to you. (P.S. The word "elite" is completely arbitrary. How can it not sync with your definition when it literally has no defined parameters? o_o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joogsw Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 At the moment i'm soloing HEROIC+2 quests and even succeeding in killing the Boss so no, its not to hard. The only thing i'm failing at is my questline where i have to subdue a Jedi master to cure his psychotic behind. But i will get him. It makes the games more fun when you have to work and think to get things done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidence Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I gotta say i don't recognize the issues you described. So far i've had no problems soloing elites for quests. Sure once in a while my companion dies during the fight but at that point it's easy to take the elite down Maybe it's a combination of your spec and choice of companion? I think what he means more or less is... He can't fight any of these mobs alone. You always HAVE to use one of your compaions, and to him and many others that doesnt make us feel very epic or strong. How can it? I mean if I as a Sith lord, The Emporer's Wrath cant fight one gold elite without help from one of my little buddies how is that epic? And to top it off, half the time you cant use the compaion you want to because of the spec you chose. Either way I personaly like compaions, I just dont think I should be forced into using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rantank Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Add to that, sometimes the voice/text of the story says the fight is one on one, a test of honour or whatever.. and there I go sneaking a companion into the fight too.... but I wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of surviving it without the companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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