Theology Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) First off, let me start by saying im in total agreeance that Deception and Madness DPS needs buffed. Now, with that being said, here is why I like the changes, specifically the stance requirements on certain talents. As a Darkness 31/0/10 Assassin tank, I average 8-10 medals a game. 2k, 5k, 10k, 50k Protection. 10 enemies, 25 enemies. 75k damage. Quick-draw Medal. Very seldom i will get the 2.5k hit medal from Assassinate and sometimes i'm lucky to get the Assassin medal for 1v1. Now. DPS spec'd assassin's can throw on Dark charge, throw up guard and easily get the same protection medals, along with getting the 2.5k, 5k hit medal, and 300k damage medal. Not only this, but you are also getting the best part of Assassin defense with no penalty at all. Since defense stats are pretty much useless, aside from Dark Charge of course, you absolutely have zero penalty at all and get the best of both worlds in Assassin defense AND offense. 31 Darkness spec'd assassins are at a huge disadvantage because of this fact. My opinion might feel a little bias, and of course, it's not all about the medals. But if you think about it, you really were getting a huge one up by being able to run dark charge while spec'd into DPS trees. Edited February 2, 2012 by Theology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 First off, let me start by saying im in total agreeance that Deception and Madness DPS needs buffed. Now, with that being said, here is why I like the changes, specifically the stance requirements on certain talents. As a Darkness 31/0/10 Assassin tank, I average 8-10 medals a game. 2k, 5k, 10k, 50k Protection. 10 enemies, 25 enemies. 75k damage. Quick-draw Medal. Very seldom i will get the 2.5k hit medal from Assassinate and sometimes i'm lucky to get the Assassin medal for 1v1. Now. DPS spec'd assassin's can throw on Dark charge, throw up guard and easily get the same protection medals, along with getting the 2.5k, 5k hit medal, and 300k damage medal. Not only this, but you are also getting the best part of Assassin defense with no penalty at all. Since defense stats are pretty much useless, aside from Dark Charge of course, you absolutely have zero penalty at all and get the best of both worlds in Assassin defense AND offense. 31 Darkness spec'd assassins are at a huge disadvantage because of this fact. My opinion might feel a little bias, and of course, it's not all about the medals. But if you think about it, you really were getting a huge one up by being able to run dark charge while spec'd into DPS trees. No... Just... No. /facepalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSLlolz Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) You haven't even played Deception (in PvP) ever, I'd almost put my life on that. First off, a Deception Assassin averages between 120k and 180k per Warzone. I have NEVER EVER seen ANY Assassin go above 300k DMG in one Warzone. We just don't have that much damage. Also getting 5k in one it is exxxxtremely rare with an Assassin... I've NEVER critted above 5k and I'm in full Champion DPS gear. (the highest I've gotten was ~4350 on fresh lvl 50 characters) I can imagine Battlemasters acquiring that medal rarely, but in that case, they deserve it, if they've grinded so much valor to get to Battlemaster. The highest crits you can get in WZ 50k guard medal on Deception HAHA give me a break. The highest guard medal a Deception assassin can get is the Paladin medal (guard 10k in one life) but it's pretty much impossible in the lvl50 bracket, you'd know if you'd play Deception assassin. Why can't they get above 10k guard? Simple. Gearing. The Deception assassin has much lower defenses than the Darkness assassin. You cannot keep up your health to survive that long while being geared to DPS. (especially if you're getting hammered on, since lvl 50s actually do have brains for PvP) So... NO JUST NO. Edited February 3, 2012 by Arzhanin Rude comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epicopter Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) You haven't even played Deception (in PvP) ever, I'd almost put my life on that. First off, a Deception Assassin averages between 120k and 180k per Warzone. I have NEVER EVER seen ANY Assassin go above 300k DPS in one Warzone. We just don't have that much damage. Also getting 5k in one it is exxxxtremely rare with an Assassin... I've NEVER critted above 5k and I'm in full Champion DPS gear. (the highest I've gotten was ~4350 on fresh lvl 50 characters) I can imagine Battlemasters acquiring that medal rarely, but in that case, they deserve it, if they've grinded so much valor to get to Battlemaster. The highest crits you can get in WZ 50k guard medal on Deception HAHA give me a break. The highest guard medal a Deception assassin can get is the Paladin medal (guard 10k in one life) but it's pretty much impossible in the lvl50 bracket, you'd know if you'd play Deception assassin. Why can't they get above 10k guard? Simple. Gearing. The Deception assassin has much lower defenses than the Darkness assassin. You cannot keep up your health to survive that long while being geared to DPS. So... NO JUST NO. I've gone well above 300k damage as Deception and as 23/0/18... Edited February 3, 2012 by Arzhanin Insulting others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Yeah, OP? I'm with the first response guy on this one... /facepalm, just..../facepalm And while you're at it, stop and realize that damage spec Juggs will still make tons of medals, they can still switch stances on a whim and 2.5k damage single hit is a joke to them with Rage spec, they can do two or three times that to up to 5 people every 10 seconds or so. And damage spec PTs will still make tons of medals. While you, the Assassin, will be seriously screwed next patch. Welcome changes? Sigh...yeah, OK. Fine. One thing to welcome from all this is that Assassins will become quite rarer. People who don't feel like playing a tank will just go and play something else that's still not broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Yeah, you have no idea how your class works. I'm almost full BM gear and deception won't be seeing 5k crits unless they stack expertise buff and everything. You get the exact medals we do. I've done 300k as tank spec. Edited February 2, 2012 by Nocorras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varcan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 First off, a Deception Assassin averages between 120k and 180k per Warzone. I have NEVER EVER seen ANY Assassin go above 300k DMG in one Warzone. We just don't have that much damage. Where do you play?... Deception avg. 300k+ on Voidstar, and 250k+ on Alderaan. That's avg. with a good player assuming the match wasnt totally lopsided. Crushing victories lead to lower dmg numbers, as the matches end quickly. The 23/0/18 build can put up just laughable #s. 400k+ Voidstars and 300k+ Alderaan pretty much every game. Ignoring what the OP wrote as it didn't make a lot of sense, the new patch is indeed a buff to anyone who wants to spec Darkness. If you were posting 400k+ previously running 23/0/18, then I think 500k+ is very reachable with the new 31/0/10 build after the patch. The addition of +50% crit on Force Potency, using AoE more often, plus Harnessed Shadows burst should add about 50k to previous highs imo. Granted you are losing +50% crit on DS and Mind Crush procs, so its possible it evens out in totals. But the single target burst will be much higher in 1.1.2 with 31/0/10 than 23/0/18 was ever capabale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynapseX Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) First off, a Deception Assassin averages between 120k and 180k per Warzone. I have NEVER EVER seen ANY Assassin go above 300k DMG in one Warzone. We just don't have that much damage. What? this was in a short lopsided voidstar victory. Note the DPS more than the total damage. 17/12/12 Edited February 2, 2012 by SynapseX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBraddox Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What? this was in a short lopsided voidstar victory. Note the DPS more than the total damage. 17/12/12 Is this lvl 50 bracket only or some older WZ with lowbies? I personally never seen Sins hit that hard on my server and usually in the low 200K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynapseX Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Is this lvl 50 bracket only or some older WZ with lowbies? I personally never seen Sins hit that hard on my server and usually in the low 200K. This was last night, 50 bracket. I used to get 500k+ in voidstars when it was 1-50. I've managed a few 400k+ in the 50's only. Edited February 2, 2012 by SynapseX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBraddox Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) This was last night, 50 bracket. Nice man. So looking at 1.1.2 how will you change your build? I am assuming you have battlemaster gear as well. I would kill to have Wither and Dark Field!!! lol Edited February 2, 2012 by AlphaBraddox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynapseX Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Nice man. So looking at 1.1.2 how will you change your build? I am assuming you have battlemaster gear as well. I have battlemaster mainhand, offhand, belt. And the purchasable implants+ear. I use 4 piece columni pve. Champ helm, wrist, relics. Probably drop the deception into darkness. Edited February 2, 2012 by SynapseX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruoris Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Sure, we can get more medals than you can and that's fine, you know why? Because the split second two people look at you at the same time you better notice immediately and be planning your escape route. We are the epitomy of glass cannons thus to begrudge us our medals for putting up with an absolutely horrendously broken spec with regards to other melee. Don't get me wrong, I adore Deception, but I do still have to admit that we do less damage and have less survivability than a lot of other melee out there. Also I'd trade the 2 second sprint for Force Charge in a second, such a dumb ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynapseX Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Also I'd trade the 2 second sprint for Force Charge in a second, such a dumb ability. nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBraddox Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I have battlemaster mainhand, offhand, belt. And the purchasable implants+ear. I use 4 piece pve, rest is champ gear. K, so appears you are going for utility build but your DPS output is impressive for the hybrid build ur using. I am looking to increase my DPS since majority of WZs against Pubs is full of Heavy armor Troopers that heal like crazy as well as Scoundrels. @ Cru - Yes! Force Jump simply much better than pew pew Force Sprint. Edited February 2, 2012 by AlphaBraddox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynapseX Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) K, so appears you are going for utility build but your DPS output is impressive for the hybrid build ur using. I am looking to increase my DPS since majority of WZs against Pubs is full of Heavy armor Troopers that heal like crazy as well as Scoundrels. I have a self buffed 57% critrate on Thrash (with simple procs, always up) and 140% (90% gear + 50% talents) surge on thrash. Edited February 2, 2012 by SynapseX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai-Eurah-Tird Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Also I'd trade the 2 second sprint for Force Charge in a second, such a dumb ability. Force Sprint if spec darkness, can break out of roots and slow. available ever 20 seconds. Why would you want to trade that for force charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSLlolz Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 This was last night, 50 bracket. I used to get 500k+ in voidstars when it was 1-50. I've managed a few 400k+ in the 50's only. obviously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmak Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Is Synapse is the same Synapse that's on my server I believe it. Even with the changes though, being madness, I will still pvp with dark charge. I can deal with not having the occasional crushing darkness proc for the defensive and healing bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulvan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 First off, let me start by saying im in total agreeance that Deception and Madness DPS needs buffed. Now, with that being said, here is why I like the changes, specifically the stance requirements on certain talents. As a Darkness 31/0/10 Assassin tank, I average 8-10 medals a game. 2k, 5k, 10k, 50k Protection. 10 enemies, 25 enemies. 75k damage. Quick-draw Medal. Very seldom i will get the 2.5k hit medal from Assassinate and sometimes i'm lucky to get the Assassin medal for 1v1. Now. DPS spec'd assassin's can throw on Dark charge, throw up guard and easily get the same protection medals, along with getting the 2.5k, 5k hit medal, and 300k damage medal. Not only this, but you are also getting the best part of Assassin defense with no penalty at all. Since defense stats are pretty much useless, aside from Dark Charge of course, you absolutely have zero penalty at all and get the best of both worlds in Assassin defense AND offense. 31 Darkness spec'd assassins are at a huge disadvantage because of this fact. My opinion might feel a little bias, and of course, it's not all about the medals. But if you think about it, you really were getting a huge one up by being able to run dark charge while spec'd into DPS trees. Dude listen as a dps spec they give us a specific charge to use or our damage is gimped. Simple Darkness= Dark Charge. Deception= Shadow Madness= Lightning These are our charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atoxix Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 the changes suck, no welcome sight. Before the changes this was a cool class with many specs and the opportunities to use skill via stance dancing etc ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teyler Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 the changes suck, no welcome sight. Before the changes this was a cool class with many specs and the opportunities to use skill via stance dancing etc ... no it doesnt, it was a fix. we arent supposed to stance dance, there is no skill inherit to it. it was an oversight, its like if darkness could dark ward outside of dark charge. there was nothing cool about broken hybrid speccs, having 21 point talents that were vastly superior to end tree talents was stupid and they fixed it. we arent wow warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AedanWolfe Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 i personally feel this is a step in the right direction in fleshing out and giving deception its own identity, right now it talents scream upfront damage adn stealth abuse...but in gameplay if people want competitive they tend to do something else with it...not all..but most. i was deception first, unhappy with the damage so i went darkness and enjoy the survivability, plus i dont mind tanking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darh_halo Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 no it doesnt, it was a fix. we arent supposed to stance dance, there is no skill inherit to it. it was an oversight, its like if darkness could dark ward outside of dark charge. there was nothing cool about broken hybrid speccs, having 21 point talents that were vastly superior to end tree talents was stupid and they fixed it. we arent wow warriors. Well said Sir +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plompkin Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Induction triggering off assassinate is a welcome and nice little QOL change. I don't have to fit in an extra Voltaic before trying to shock-drop someone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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