Official: Over 1.7 million active subs, 2 + mil sold

[Inarai]

NO, it's 2 million subs and lowering.

 

So, what in your mind would be an acceptable conversion rate?

Edited February 3, 2012 by Inarai

[TelamonSedai]

NO, it's 2 million subs and lowering.

 

Way to completely ignore my post that addressed this. It was 0 posts and gaining.... now its 1.7 Million and climbing... go read my post.

[Caldurjyoh]

No story? What? What did you think you were doing in Outland? Or Northrend? Or the Cataclysm zones? Did you not feel strung along by a sense of the Warcraft lore and sensibilities? On a meta-level (as opposed to a personal level with your character) I actually felt more of the story in WoW throughout its evolution than with SWTOR. It followed directly after Warcraft 3: TFT, some excellent story-driven RTSing. You feel like you're part of the world on a grander scale than this weird thing in SWTOR where every character's story has to make them feel uber-important.

 

SWTOR is too far disconnected from the KotOR games and the things you did in them to connect to those, so it feels less like Star Wars and more like "SPACE MMO GAME WITH LIGHTSABERS". There are tangential connections that come into focus later on in the game, but even those seem disconnected to people who didn't read the books or some lore section in a Wiki on the internet. Most people don't know who the Sith emperor is in this time period. Most people don't know what happened to Revan after KotOR 1, or the Exile after KotOR 2. If you don't have the subtitles on in Maelstrom Prison, you probably wouldn't ever realize that the Jedi presence IS the Exile, that the canonical exile was a female who fell in love with Revan at some point in an obscure novelization. You probably don't know who Lord Scourge is or how he fits into all of this stuff. The name Vitiate means nothing to you. All of these things are really important to crafting the tone and feel of the galaxy at this point in time, as well as creating a grounded plot thread around which everything else can be built.

 

If you came into WoW as a veteran of WC3, you knew exactly who Malfurion and Tyrande, Thrall and Cairne, Sylvanas and Arthas were and how they ended up in the places they were in. You understood the state of the world of Azeroth (and even Outland). You understood the threat posed by the Lich King and the Burning Legion, and why everyone was banded together into the factions that they were. For the most part, the connection between WC3's factions and the playable races in WoW were logical, excepting maybe the Forsaken's affiliation with the Horde. But at least you knew who everyone was. It gave me a great sense of being a member of the appropriate faction, particularly early on in WoW's life cycle where real, organic world PvP existed and wasn't forced by some contrived BS like Ilum or Wintergrasp.

 

The only thing you have to go on in SWTOR is Sith Empire = ******es, Jedi Republic = ***** good guys. Who is Satele Shan? Presumably she's descended from Bastila, but that's like a weird 300 year connection in a society of people that aren't supposed to love and have kids. Wait, what? Why is Ven Zallow, a guy who clearly died in the introduction trailer, the most prominently featured character in the art of the game? Who is he? Why is he so important? Who is Malgus for that matter other than the guy who killed Zallow? You don't know who the Dark Council is, you don't know who the Jedi Council is, you don't know anyone in the military structure of the Republic or the Empire. Why should I care about anything in this universe? What's going on?

 

Please remember, I am comparing only the meta-stories of the two games. The overarching tonalities and settings, not the individual details of playing the game itself, but the things I consider more important in creating the mood and setting of an MMO, of being a smaller part of a larger system. SWTOR's system leaves me with a lot of cognitive dissonance about things, like the knowledge that when I finish a level 50 PvP WZ with 12 other Inquisitors in the game, every single one of them is on the Dark Council also. Wait, WHAT? It just doesn't reconcile with my view of the game world in an MMO. Every single character is the most powerfulest importantest person in the galaxy. Every Sith warrior is the Emperor's Wrath, every Jedi is presumably a member of the Jedi council as well. It's the kind of thing that takes me out of a story where I'm supposed feel like my character is special.

 

In WoW, you look up to the characters who are very clearly your superiors in both power and rank. You are not all the leaders of the Horde and Alliance. You are not a demonic overlord of the Burning Legion. You're just a guy in the world. You do important things, but in a way that makes the overall experience feel more cohesive. The newer zones (Northrend, Cataclysm and the new old world) do a particularly good job of creating a story that doesn't feel so contrived and unrealistic as the SWTOR ones do within the context of an MMO. You are a grunt in the army working towards the downfall of the Lich King. You are trying to rebuild the world and stop Deathwing from destroying it. You have better sensibilities and connection to the really big and important events happening in the world. You are part of a macrocosm that works better in an MMO rather than the microcosm of a Bioware RPG.

 

READ THIS!

 

This is whats wrong with these forums.

 

Someone writes a nicely balanced reply and its totaly ignored! After this reply all i saw was 1.7mil subs, WOW sucks, SWTOR sucks, subs subs subs. Like the numbers of subs is what plays the game :S

 

 

Its all about Haters and fanboys fighting who is right, the game will fail or succeed.

 

None really cares for the game, only their point. You all suck and none of you ever wanted the game to be fun. All you care is to be right.

[WhiskyJax]

So, what in your mind would be an acceptable conversion rate?

 

I've come to the conclusion that the only way a great deal of these posters would agree with those that are happy with the games success is if the numbers reported pointed towards the game being a complete failure.

[CanWolfShadow]

NO, it's 2 million subs and lowering.

 

And I can tell you havent read any of the articles on the subject at all.

 

1.7 million subs is a hard number.

He stated that the # was rising.

2 million is the sales figure.

Subbed is anyone who's free month isnt up, or has already renewed. With most of them being paid players at this point.

 

This is an investors call. They might shade things thier way, or slant the interpretation of the #s, but the #s aren't allowed to be false by law.

 

85% retention after a month an a half is good #s. Period. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

 

The game has issues. No one is saying it doesn't. But alot of people are having fun playing it, and it shows.

 

The real #s to watch will be the next quarterly report. If 5 months in, they are over 1.5 million? I'll be very happy. If they crawl up to 2 million? I'll be very happy and surprised.

[Vallowen]

dec 31st 2011

 

ie, before the free month ran out

[PISTOLcm]

dec 31st 2011

 

ie, before the free month ran out

 

"Electronic Arts makes these statements as of February 1, 2012, and disclaims any duty to update them."

 

"Let me offer some metrics on purchase and subscription that will help you understand this business. As John stated, we have sold through 2 million units of the game since December. We currently have a little over 1.7 million active subscribers. The rest have either not started playing yet or have opted out. This is an outstanding start for an MMO, and the metrics on engagement suggests players are loving the game. Unique log-ins are averaging about 1 million per day, and their average playtime is approximately 4 hours per day."

[TelamonSedai]

NO, it's 2 million subs and lowering.

 

And only because I am about to go to sleep I would like to throw out one more point. In the world of MMOs the only thing that matters is subscription numbers past the first 3 weeks. How may boxes they sell at launch or directly there after. You keep pointing out they sold 2 million and kept 1.7 million, but lets look at this using WoW, since it is the biggest MMO to ever have huge growth.

 

Peak subscriptions = 12 Million

 

Total number of games sold over the course of 7 years = ???????

 

I would guess close to 20 million if not substantially more than that. So biased on your way of thinking, at that point in time it would have been a 40% loss instead of a substantial gain over the course of years. See how it really doesn't make sense when you are looking at how a game like this is doing?

 

Subscription fees = 100% prophet for the company, this is what they care about, this is where their money comes from.

[Kharnis]

dec 31st 2011

 

ie, before the free month ran out

 

"Active subscribers means anyone paying or in their trial period. Most of those 1.7m are paying at this point."

 

i.e., After 20 January 2012.

[Akirator]

"Electronic Arts makes these statements as of February 1, 2012, and disclaims any duty to update them."

 

"Let me offer some metrics on purchase and subscription that will help you understand this business. As John stated, we have sold through 2 million units of the game since December. We currently have a little over 1.7 million active subscribers. The rest have either not started playing yet or have opted out. This is an outstanding start for an MMO, and the metrics on engagement suggests players are loving the game. Unique log-ins are averaging about 1 million per day, and their average playtime is approximately 4 hours per day."

 

Most people don't seem to understand that the financials and metrics are two entirely different things. The financial numbers are indeed from Dec 31, the rest of the release is from somewhere between then and now.

[Tiriensoul]

That's great news.

[Dunzo]

I LOL at the fanboys who act like subs matter 6 weeks into the game. Even if the game had 200k subs, what would it matter? The statistic just implies its a big thing right now, and certainly has a lot of room to grow or decline. Just play the game, or don't and shut up about subs.

[CanWolfShadow]

I LOL at the fanboys who act like subs matter 6 weeks into the game. Even if the game had 200k subs, what would it matter? The statistic just implies its a big thing right now, and certainly has a lot of room to grow or decline. Just play the game, or don't and shut up about subs.

 

See, tossing out the 'fanboy' thing marks you as a troll or a 'hater'.

 

And the 'Haters' (As opposed to those with valid criticism of the game) said this game was dead on launch, and it would be F2P within a few months. Blah blah blah.

 

These numbers sort of disprove that initiall statement that no one was re-upping. 1.7 million is plenty strong, especially if the # is going up, as was stated in the Market Call.

 

It's also the first hard #s that we've seen. So it's bound to cause discussion.

 

/Only posting becasue I'm @ work, and cant play.

[Thaed]

 

READ THIS!

 

This is whats wrong with these forums.

 

Someone writes a nicely balanced reply and its totaly ignored! After this reply all i saw was 1.7mil subs, WOW sucks, SWTOR sucks, subs subs subs. Like the numbers of subs is what plays the game :S

 

 

Its all about Haters and fanboys fighting who is right, the game will fail or succeed.

 

None really cares for the game, only their point. You all suck and none of you ever wanted the game to be fun. All you care is to be right.

 

Because the person you quoted (and I'm assuming the person that he quoted) has composed a reply that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which is subs.

[Grimhand]

Anyone who is too lazy to read:

 

- Statements made as of Feb 1st.

 

- Either have already paid their sub, or have the credit card set to pay it when their trial period ends (IE they ARE paying subs, their cards just haven't been charged yet. They haven't cancelled and as of this point plan to sub).

 

Anyone who has cancelled their subs, won't be included in that list, and neither will people who haven't set up payment info to be charged at the end of their 30 days and are just in their trial period.

 

So its 1.7 million subs or people who still plan on subbing at the end of their 30s, and that was as of Feb 1st.

 

Everything else is either conjecture or some conspiracy theory about EA making fraudulent claims to their shareholders.

[Runeshard]

So....ppl actually think a company will use q4's number for a q3 report.....??

 

Jesus christ i wasted so much time

Yes they do, just read this.

 

Page 10:

As John stated, we have sold through two million units of the game since December.

We currently have a little over 1.7 million active subscribers. The rest have either not started

playing yet or have opted out.

[Runeshard]

prove anything I said was incorrect with your financial statements and investors call. You have the info so prove to me that anything I said is not true.

 

Prove to me that all the people that have cancelled their subs but still have some active gametime left are not included in the 1.7 number.

 

Read.

 

Page 10:

As John stated, we have sold through two million units of the game since December.

We currently have a little over 1.7 million active subscribers. The rest have either not started

playing yet or have opted out.

 

Saying that the rest have either not started playing or have opted out could well mean that they have cancelled their subs and are not counted even if they still have free game time left.

 

I'm not saying its definite proof but it's stronger than anything you bring to the discussion.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Runeshard

[Chimeran]

Players hit 50, got bored and moved on.

Player base has dropped massively because the game is boring, there is almost nil social grouping in SWTOR, nothing to do, nothing for guilds to work towards.

 

What did Bioware expect, they did too little too late to keep the masses.

 

We need things to do..... not having guild ships etc killed a huge part of an MMO for me.

[Akirator]

Players hit 50, got bored and moved on.

Player base has dropped massively because the game is boring, there is almost nil social grouping in SWTOR, nothing to do, nothing for guilds to work towards.

 

What did Bioware expect, they did too little too late to keep the masses.

 

We need things to do..... not having guild ships etc killed a huge part of an MMO for me.

 

Until we get hard data supporting this "massive drop" in subs, or even a drop at all, I call shenanigans.

[Runeshard]

if you look at the chart it states 12/31/12 that was like 6 days after the game released so no one had even paid for the first month yet.

 

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/1672636375x0x539144/d895626f-e715-4f00-bd50-31bf095027fd/Q3_Script_-_20_2112_1251pm.pdf

 

Page 6:

To date, we have sold through more than 2 million units.

 

Page 10:

As John stated, we have sold through two million units of the game since December.

We currently have a little over 1.7 million active subscribers. The rest have either not started

playing yet or have opted out.

 

They wouldn't say things like "to date" and "currently" if those figures were from December.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Runeshard

[kiroshei]

No matter what the doomsayers will say the game is doomed. They have their 2012 apocalypse spam filled fridges too.

[Akirator]

No matter what the doomsayers will say the game is doomed. They have their 2012 apocalypse spam filled fridges too.

 

Mmmm spam, the other other white meat.

[Zandog]

Not doomed quite yet but I will say the evidence is clear. We all play and depending on what server, what time of day and what instance your on, your outlook differs. I can say that I like the game but I have my concerns. I play in Juyo, an average to high populated server and at peak, the player counts are still 40-70 per area..

 

Sorry, this has been said by many, many players.

 

Not going to restate whats need stated already. It just "feels" dead. I would rather wait in queue and take turns killing a mob or instance area than have it feel desolate and anti-social like it feels now.

[Gehoornde]

Not doomed quite yet but I will say the evidence is clear. We all play and depending on what server, what time of day and what instance your on, your outlook differs. I can say that I like the game but I have my concerns. I play in Juyo, an average to high populated server and at peak, the player counts are still 40-70 per area..

 

Sorry, this has been said by many, many players.

 

Not going to restate whats need stated already. It just "feels" dead. I would rather wait in queue and take turns killing a mob or instance area than have it feel desolate and anti-social like it feels now.

 

Well said.

[nevetss]

Not doomed quite yet but I will say the evidence is clear. We all play and depending on what server, what time of day and what instance your on, your outlook differs. I can say that I like the game but I have my concerns. I play in Juyo, an average to high populated server and at peak, the player counts are still 40-70 per area..

 

Sorry, this has been said by many, many players.

 

Not going to restate whats need stated already. It just "feels" dead. I would rather wait in queue and take turns killing a mob or instance area than have it feel desolate and anti-social like it feels now.

 

The only reason it feels dead to you is because you can see that number Example: Standing in org 20 people standing around without a number you could swear it was at least 50 if that number was not there I could almost guarantee you wouldn't even notice.