Crafting Profession Changes in patch 1.1.2

[Asmiroth]

the new 50s that are whining about getting beat down mostly play in random games and don't put in the effort to attempt organized group play. With or without a nerf to pvp gear these players will still get beat down.

 

The players you are hurting if you continue with this change are the ones who put the time and effort get to valor rank 60 & above from the beginning.

 

More importantly, with the upcoming changes to the champion bags the new 50s should be able to buy their gear as long as they accomplish their daily warzone and daily ilum.

 

if they are too lazy to do those then they don't deserve to have a chance!

 

Here I have to disagree. A fresh 50 has 12-13K hit points, does maybe 800 DPS while a half-geared PvP player has 16K hit points and does well over 1200 dps. The difference is huge. Battlemaster players can take 3-4 fresh 50s with little risk. I play a healer and there are people I simply cannot heal fast enough, even in a 1v1 situation. Healing a BM is the complete opposite. I don't mind playing with BMs but the power difference is simply too large right now.

 

This next patch has me rather excited.

[I-ku-u]

All that was great. But this is probably my favorite part. After RE-ing 100ish (I kept a reasonably accurate count) might implants and not getting any purple pattern procs, I just gave up. It became a waste of mats and massive loss in potential profit dollars. Not to mention the time sink.

 

I don't mind working hard for something but just being random and unlucky does not suit me at all. I'd say make RE-ing patterns obtainable, but just not by random chance, but rather by spending the time doing certain things, gathering certain items, finding hidden things in the universe to aid crafting (buffs or items that enhance RE-ing or give a chance to make double or have a few ticks of better stats). Make crafters want to go explore the world because there's something hidden out there, something mysterious that could aid them.

 

Since it's predicability that you desire, the fix you say is your favorite part actually fails to help.

 

I too want more predictability from RE'ing, and your description of how to attain it (as well as a suggestion made by another poster a few pages back) are definitely improvements. But, at least for the RE'ing as levelling up (and I've already maxed my crafting skill), I think the RE chance is better than it needs to be.

 

Edit (again): I'm currently in training to be a teacher. A point emphasized early on is that for rewards to be effective, they need to be consistent rewards based on progressive effort. Random rewards are ultimately discouraging to those who randomly fail to achieve them.

Edited February 2, 2012 by I-ku-u

[Dratten]

Are you kidding me!!! The differences are too high? Really! Ruin the game for all of us why dont you!

[DTEST]

Yeah, me and guildies have exotech recepies. Guess what. Can't learn them. Go figure. Fix that first instead of "bring it inline with blablabla".

 

In the 1.1.2 patch notes:

 

The Exotech Med Unit schematic obtained from the Eternity Vault Operation now functions properly and can be learned.

 

Asked and granted!

 

I love the idea of removable mods (and hopefully set bonuses) from end game. My main is a Jedi Guardian, and my largest gripe is that he looks like a trooper with a robe and 'saber. I'd roll a Shadow, but cannot stand the double-bladed saber he's forced to use.

 

So, barring removing ability to wear heavy armor and changing defense tree (or Soresu form) to provide buff to Medium armor stats, this is the next best thing to allow me to pick up CRAFTABLE (yay player-run economy) and CRITABLE (I think read that in there) custom armor that has the look I want. Most of the lower level items have the look I'm going for.

 

I also love the idea that someone can't look at my character and now how strong (or not-strong) it is. For PVP this is an advantage; for PVE it makes it harder to identify the undergeared people for min/max situations. But either min/max guilds will require higher level gear be worn, or find a way to measure based on stats (my preferred method).

 

Also, in regards to more of a player-run economy. I love this idea, though I'm not sure how well it is going to work on per-server basis. It works so well on another MMO that runs on a single server. If done right, this might not be a problem.

[Manjiyomi_Jun]

You misunderstand me. First, I specifically included implants from biochem and synthweaving as a whole, which follow the more complex upgrade path, in my example. I have, and so have my guildies, encountered the issue of needing to RE successfully several times to get the desired item. It's more effort than for the biochem consumables, but it's still not significant effort.

 

Since the point of my argument is the loss of differentiation, even if I had made the oversight you point out, the increased effort you mention wouldn't change my point. Once most crafters can readily make most of, if not all, the useful items, crafters become commodities themselves - interchangeable and meaningless - and that depresses the economy.

 

Fair enough but I like to think of it as the focus being shifted from who can provide what to how they provide it. Consider this, both Best Buy and Walmart sell (in most cases) the same electronics. What makes one more preferable to the other? Price? Convenience? Marketing Strategy? These are the factors that will separate the "boys from the men". That aside, there are still schematics that are only attainable through operations, so there will be some difference in product availability on that front.

[ultimba]

Fixing the search filters in the GTN would be huge. Usable by always yields no results when I try to use it. Also, being able to drill down beyond Heavy/Medium/Light armor (for example) would help make finding items much easier.

[Varder]

keeping the same RE crit chance would be fine by me as long as they STOP the RNG from producing a schematic result we ALREADY know, which of course turns up those terrible red letters "You already know that schematic".

 

The coder who originally programed RE to work this way should be written up or fired! (well maybe thats over board but getting that result 7x while trying to get the ONE schematic you want is enough to drive you nuts.

[burningcurse]

Here I have to disagree. A fresh 50 has 12-13K hit points, does maybe 800 DPS while a half-geared PvP player has 16K hit points and does well over 1200 dps. The difference is huge. Battlemaster players can take 3-4 fresh 50s with little risk. I play a healer and there are people I simply cannot heal fast enough, even in a 1v1 situation. Healing a BM is the complete opposite. I don't mind playing with BMs but the power difference is simply too large right now.

 

This next patch has me rather excited.

 

Let me ask you, In what game have you seen a fully geared max level character get defeated by a new/fresh max level character wearing greens and blues? This seems to be the direction it's headed and it's not hard to understand why those of us who put in the time to get to 60 are upset.

 

done with this post, I've expressed my opinions to George Z and hopefully he see/reads/considers them.

 

Quite frankly, he is the only one that really matters on this thread anyway.

[I-ku-u]

Fair enough but I like to think of it as the focus being shifted from who can provide what to how they provide it. Consider this, both Best Buy and Walmart sell (in most cases) the same electronics. What makes one more preferable to the other? Price? Convenience? Marketing Strategy? These are the factors that will separate the "boys from the men". That aside, there are still schematics that are only attainable through operations, so there will be some difference in product availability on that front.

 

True, and I have professed ignorance regarding the high end gear.

 

To answer your question tho', what causes me to choose a store in real life is partly based on style, and this is especially important for clothes. This is why I think if RE'ing could be coupled with making a desired style useful later, there would be a huge benefit to the economy of the game.

 

Edit: Imagine, the art team could focus on varied styles for all levels of gear, knowing that if players put in the effort, those styles would still make an appearance on top end players who preferred that look.

Edited February 2, 2012 by I-ku-u

[jdirty]

What if the extractable purple mods were bound to you and any orange gear you inserted them into became bound. That way you can choose your look but still have to work for good gear. Would this work or am I missing something? Apologies if this has been brought up. (A lot of posts to read)

 

As far orange crit goes would this cause the gear to have more slots than end game gear or be the same but without mods?

[alement]

Sure, I only spent 3 weeks grinding Valor to get to Battlemaster for you to nerf it two days before I hit it. Who gives a ****?

 

The real question - and I hope you consider this BW - did you just make endgame PvE gear more viable in PvP than Battlemaster gear? I've seen assassins in Columi gear with 22k health. They pick up the ball and run that **** like Tebow. They're hard enough to kill as it is!

[damolawler]

My opinion,

 

Purple items and mods should only be obtainable through crafting. Then only way to get purple stuff is for someone to make it. All of a sudden, crafting becomes worthwhile.

 

Simples

Edited February 2, 2012 by damolawler

[Nelle]

Hi,

 

First off, we removed the requirement to have the BioChem profession to use Energized and Exotech stims and adrenals. This was done to (a) remove pressure of players to pick up BioChem for optimal combat performance and (b) to open up the sale of BioChem products to a larger audience on the Galactic Trade Network.

 

 

So Georg Sir could you expand on this please? I'm a bit confused here. I'm not sure what Exotech items your referring to. The only thing I can think of that is Exotech related are the Biochem Exotch Recipes that drop from PvE OPS and are completely unlearn-able at this time.

 

 

Additionally, we've reduced the effectiveness of the BioChem exclusive Rakata Stimpacks to be equal to Energized stimpacks.

Georg

 

To clarify our point further and to make sure I understand this, my Rakata Force Resolve Stim which gives 136 Willpower bonus will be lowered to match the stat bonus of the Prototype Hyper Battle Resolve Stim?

 

Thanks for your post and your time keeping the community informed. We appreciate you!

[Angeliana]

Re-posting my post I had made on the crew skill forums, for BW's attention:

 

The Reverse Engineering System BW currently has needs a lot of improvement.

 

I am a 400 Synthweaver and I have been 50 for weeks now. From my personal experience, I have been trying to Achieve a purple belt for my husband's marauder and a purple (superior) glove for my Sorc Corrupter.

 

I am well aware of how RE ing works. I have been able to get the first REs (Prefixes we wanted) on both items in about 40 tries for the gloves (Overkill for Power) and 15-20 on the belt (Critical for crit). But here is the rub, ever since then I have been trying for both every day with upsetting results.

 

I am aware of the 5 possible schematic procs on these items for their second tier. So far I have REed about 70 EPIC gloves and 120 blue belts. I am working off the WP and power glove so I am shooting for the alacrity schematic and I am working off the strength crit belt so I am shooting for the surge schematic. I don't even understand why some of the 5 (tier 2 RE) options exist on certain items. I have procced the accuracy schematic for the gloves, as well as the presence and shield rating for the belt. Now all I get is "You already know that schematic" if I get anything at all. This is very frustrating for crafters to say the least. Especially if you take into account how many crew missions I have had to send my companions on to supply this madness.

 

At this point, I have sank millions of credits into this. I realize RNG is R for Random, however; as a customer I would like to suggest that BW at least consider the following:

 

When you discover one of the 3 paths for the first tier of REing or one of the 5 paths for the second tier of REing; please remove it from the pool of possible schematics to discover for future REs. REing is grueling enough on its own, without making the one successful hit you get after loads of wasted credits, time and items, be one you have already hit which is useless for you.

 

Right now, the many epic schematics I have acquired from HM FPs and OPs, mostly (about 90%) produce BoP items. Not only can I not trade or sell these items which weren't easy to acquire schematics for but I also need further BoP components to craft them (most, more than one: alloy and bolt) which come from HMs and OPs. Take into account that most people will want their item to be the best they can make, and will want a critical craft... good grief, that is a lot of HMs, materials, credits and time down the drain.

 

In conclusion, Synthweaving is at best a money and time sink which will only provide you with a super duper rare reward if you get really lucky and have a ton of time, credits and patience on your hands (And you might get better from a HM in the time it takes you to achieve this). REing might be a balance system BW intended to be used for other crew skills perhaps but for Synthweaving it is absurd to the power of absurd and needs to be improved upon.

 

TL;DR REing needs improvements; mainly that discovered schematics should be taken out of the future discovery pool. Synthweaving needs their patterns made BoE and needs overall improvements.

 

Thank you Bioware for your attention to this matter.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Angeliana

[mdobrowney]

BW you need to understand to make crafting work. The best end game gear and weapons has to come from the crafter. IF this is not the case. No matter what you do. It will never work out.

[Natir]

Energized and Exotech stims and adrenals no longer require Biochem to use.

Energized and Exotech stims and adrenals are no longer bound, allowing them to be traded or sold to other players.

Rakata reusable stims and adrenals have been reduced in power, providing buffs equal to Energized stims and adrenals.

 

So let me get this straight, the Rakata stim and adrenals are going to be equal to energized? Energized stim and adrenal are BoE and you do not need Biochem to use. I mainly use biochem for the adrenals and the stims, not necessarily for the medpack. While the medpack is nice, I can forgo that. So basically I am going to be dropping these skills to pick up something since I no longer need Biochem for the Rakata stuff, seeing as how it will be the EXACT SAME as energized. Why? Dumbest change ever. How about you make other crewskills useful. Make it so you can make better mods, enhancements, barrels, hilts and armoring that what you can get through dailies.

[Anetsetsouken]

Tread very carefully Bioware. You are on the precipice of making a decision that you cannot reverse. Making a game easier for subsections of players invariably alienates another group of players.

[Malcivious]

First, in reply to the Georg, thank you for giving this outlook. If you can keep these going regularly, I know I am one of the community who really appreciates when we get these from the companies who make MMO's.

 

Suggestions:

Cybertech - Expertise mods/enhancements/hilts/armoring please. Even if it's only gets me to 200 Expertise, at least I have a way to get into PvP at 50 without just being a punching bag or having solely participated in PvP as my leveling up experience. Give people a gateway to endgame PvP that they can purchase on the GTN. It'll also help with the PvP gear disparity you mentioned.

 

That rare PvE dungeon material for crafting that only drops in Raids/Flashpoints. Make it somehow available to the PvP crowd. I was so disappointed on my Smuggler, after leveling Biochem (I picked it before it was FOTM honest) and couldn't craft any of the end game epics because I'd rather spend time PvPing.

[JackalDark]

Add craft able mods, enhancements etc.. that have Expertise on it so fresh 50's can get some way of catching up.

 

Right now you have to pray you're on the stacked team to get your daily done otherwise it's a complete waste of time.

 

Change the way bags are earned and add crafted items with expertise on it and bam problem solved.

[faelleouf]

the rakata medpac will be unchanged right? still need 400 biochem to use ?

[alement]

Tread very carefully Bioware. You are on the precipice of making a decision that you cannot reverse. Making a game easier for subsections of players invariably alienates another group of players.

 

^

This

 

I spent the better part of 100-150 hours grinding valor after I hit level 50, and this hits me int he face two days before I hit Valor 60.

 

Is my Battlemaster gear going to be less effective now than, say Columi?

 

If so.... my reaction:

Edited February 2, 2012 by alement

[spicycookie]

Because mobs in pve don't complain about anything and it always relates back to PVP so in any MMO changes are made through PVPing not PVE because Mobs can't complain on forums

 

Why does everyone have to always bring up PvP when he is clearly talking about End Game PvE. Whats wrong with you PvP obsessed people? Also if what you are talking about were to happen would that make every pvper automatically pick whatever craft was capable of doing that so that they wouldn't be forced to be slaved to the market? Only way that works is if mutiple crafting professions had access to this ability and if that is what you wanted to say you left it out of your post.

[Ravbek]

I don't think the bio and cyber items you can use at 400 should be available to everyone. I think that the purple which a re-usable should be just that, the same as the highest saleable stims just re-usable...if a bio has to craft 50 med packs for himself to use it feels like a pain.

 

If you let everyone use the re-useable ones then sooner or later no one will need to buy anything off of a bio.

 

Just my thoughts.

[spicycookie]

I have reusable crap in WOW as an alchemist to boost my INT considerably.

 

Not sure what your talking about.. but you probably didn't play WOW so i apologize.

 

 

Too late Bioware, I have already reset artifice for biochem. It's sad that it is the only viable crew skill for PVP. I mean we are talking about unlimited medpacks, adrenals, stimpacks. Even kids will realize biochem users are OP in PVP. I have never played a game with this "reusable" crap. So I didn't choose biochem in the beginning. We bought potions everytime in good old days. I hate this casual mechanic of Swtor. I know it's from Wow which I've never played.

[spicycookie]

I think alienating hardcore players is a lot easier than alienating casuals.

 

Why because majority are casuals and hardcore players will always complain anywayz.

 

I use to be a hardcore player who experienced what happens when you play 10 hours a day.

 

 

Tread very carefully Bioware. You are on the precipice of making a decision that you cannot reverse. Making a game easier for subsections of players invariably alienates another group of players.