Scoobings Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 And the person who can really be achilles will be him anyways.........the gear allows the other 99% of the subs to think they are achilles........ Achilles got dipped in the river styx. If that's not OP I don't know what is. More seriously though if you don't think Achilles and William Wallace had a really high quality, well maintained sword at their side you're nut burgers. Gear plays a role, even in real life if that's where you want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nethershadow Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 and while maybe what 50,000 people might post about how they dont want gear as a progrssion tool to pvp, there are 500,000 people playing right now, not writing in these forums, gearing the toons so they can impose their newly found str on the ones who dont have it yet.....do you understand this? those are the people who will keep the subs rolling in, not the angry 50k posting in the forums LOLz, your talking out of your $zz man, because you have 0 idea of any of those statistics, like not a clue unless you can provide some real statistical proof. *hint* Your ego doesnt count as ´real proof´ I would wager that if anyone could put a poll up in the pvp forums asking if they think gear progression is needed and would they pvp without gear progression, i would bet it would be in favor of no need for gear progression. That i admit is not proof but i have provided more proof than you have. If people like the ones i listed in the thread prior are willing to pvp with no incentive other than fun, than BW has no problems with getting subs based on pvp. If they were to offer incentive, make it so it isnt gear based, other things like speeders, pets, titles, cool looking custom armor pieces ext. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holskabard Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Especially when played by Brad Pitt....yum! Only if Brad Pitt would get the role of Footman #13 and his end would be very slow and painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 GW2 is going to @#$!#$!@ crush this game. Like I haven't heard that before Personally, I hope it does. I hope GW2 is so undeniably awesome that everyone who's a good PVPer feels compelled to play GW2. I only want to play better games. The reality of the situation is when was the last time a game lived up to it's hype? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Like I haven't heard that before Personally, I hope it does. I hope GW2 is so undeniably awesome that everyone who's a good PVPer feels compelled to play GW2. I only want to play better games. The reality of the situation is when was the last time a game lived up to it's hype? December 20th. To be exact. 7 days earlier if you count EGA. Edited February 1, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Only if Brad Pitt would get the role of Footman #13 and his end would be very slow and painful. Brad Pitt is a boss, you leave him alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Why are there even comparisons to FPS games? Do you really not understand that different genres are ... different? If you really really really want to test your skill as a gamer, go play Starcraft 2 in online ladder play and be amazed. I'm not saying FPS games don't take skill, but also don't act like there is not character progression in those too through weapons, perks, and attachments. Only the old school shooters like Quake 3 had zero progression. Newer MMOs are just this way. If you play swtor for very long this wont' be the last time you need to go get geared up. If their model is really to be similar to WoW you can expect to do this every 6 months or so. Once competitive PVP is in the game, I would bet that the gear grind will be made trivial so that everyone has fair shot at. Even in the WoW PVP scene we do not take anyone seriously who has a gear advantage over their opponents. If whiners don't kill the game first, everyone will be on nearly equal gear level at some point in the near future. Edited February 1, 2012 by Kolbenito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah_banana Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Only if Brad Pitt would get the role of Footman #13 and his end would be very slow and painful. WTB more women on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 December 20th. To be exact. 7 days earlier if you count EGA. Lets be fair I don't think ANY game could have lived up to the fervor that EA built around this game. I don't think it's bad by anymeans but they tried to make it sound like the second coming of MMO-Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Why are there even comparisons to FPS games? Do you really not understand that different genres are ... different? Maybe because there isn't a successful, surviving MMO in existence that doesn't have PvP gear progression? Thats probably why. Kinda hard to provide an example when there isn't one. Edited February 1, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 LOLz, your talking out of your $zz man, because you have 0 idea of any of those statistics, like not a clue unless you can provide some real statistical proof. *hint* Your ego doesnt count as ´real proof´ I would wager that if anyone could put a poll up in the pvp forums asking if they think gear progression is needed and would they pvp without gear progression, i would bet it would be in favor of no need for gear progression. That i admit is not proof but i have provided more proof than you have. If people like the ones i listed in the thread prior are willing to pvp with no incentive other than fun, than BW has no problems with getting subs based on pvp. If they were to offer incentive, make it so it isnt gear based, other things like speeders, pets, titles, cool looking custom armor pieces ext. well you can think about what the polls would say and bioware / blizzard will keep creating content for the MAJORITY.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanisUDL Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 December 20th. To be exact. 7 days earlier if you count EGA. I'm pretty sure nobody who really cared about PvP expected PvP in this game to be anything spectacular. Time-filler at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Maybe because there isn't a successful, surviving MMO in existence that doesn't have PvP gear progression? Thats probably why. Kinda hard to provide an example when there isn't one. Lets also not forget that every MMO that has tried to capitalize on that market has crashed and burn in a spectacular display of fail. The only one that has come close so far is GA and to say that it fell short of it's expectations is a little bit of an understatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhorzo Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yes, it does mean there is a market for it. No, it does not mean it is a skill based game. It's a twitch shooter, your ability to draw with a sharpy a dot on your screen and then quick scope does not mean you are good. Whats the most popular game that does have gear progression? Would it be WoW? One of the highest selling games of all time? Could that possibly indicate that there is also a market for games that DO have gear progression? Ding ding ding. I think there is. The fact of the matter is this: they have chosen to provide gear progression in PvP, the system is in place, it's not going anywhere. If you don't like it, then while that is perfectly acceptable, chances are good that it's not going to change and that you are never going to like it, i would move on. All I wanna know is if there's skill-based PVP games that are popular... or if this whole progression-based PVP is the new thing? BF3 has gear progression, which made me sad. I wanna play against people on a level playing field, with identical gear. I want skill to determine the winner, not "time-invested" in a long, drawn-out grind. I mean I could be in the minority... and it's seeming more and more that I AM in the minority. COD seems a bit simplisitic to me... I like BF3 because of teamwork and because there's a bit more strategy involved. I like MMORPGs because they also involve teamwork and strategy. I just wanna game like that, but without the gear progression. (Someone mentioned bloodline champions... I'll have to look into that.) Man... GW2 can't come soon enough. As for SWTOR, yeah I've done the story, and it was cool. I thought PVP might hold me longer, but I guess not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanisUDL Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 well you can think about what the polls would say and bioware / blizzard will keep creating content for the MAJORITY.... The majority of MMO players are casuals. People grind because that is what is put forth in front of them. They do this for a short time, then stop playing because of said grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPagano Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 There are valids points on both sides of the line. A) Yes, when all players are fully geared in BM then the playing field is leveled. B) However, it's true that no one enjoys grinding the gear against players who already have it. Both of these things are true statements. People who say A) would agree that pvp is more fun when everyone is on an even field People who say B) would agree that having gear progression would be fine if they weren't forced to get slapped by the ridiculous discrepancy between fully geared players and those without any gear. The one thing they both agree on (assuming they're rational)? Put in a system which ranks players based on how far they've progressed through the gear. You'll be fighting people your "gear level" Now, it's clear that if this were in place, we'd have a slew of threads complaining because some will have the harsh reality forced onto them that gear levels being equal means the only discrepancy comes from skill. Nevertheless, if you were matched only with players of similar gear, you would see a lot of the complaints in this thread alleviated. it would be pretty simple, too. Look at the item levels of armor when a player queues, and determine a matchmaking based on the aggregate armor levels. Thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 All I wanna know is if there's skill-based PVP games that are popular... or if this whole progression-based PVP is the new thing? BF3 has gear progression, which made me sad. I wanna play against people on a level playing field, with identical gear. I want skill to determine the winner, not "time-invested" in a long, drawn-out grind. I mean I could be in the minority... and it's seeming more and more that I AM in the minority. COD seems a bit simplisitic to me... I like BF3 because of teamwork and because there's a bit more strategy involved. I like MMORPGs because they also involve teamwork and strategy. I just wanna game like that, but without the gear progression. (Someone mentioned bloodline champions... I'll have to look into that.) Man... GW2 can't come soon enough. As for SWTOR, yeah I've done the story, and it was cool. I thought PVP might hold me longer, but I guess not. Games appear to have discovered that if you have something to work for it keeps people motivated to play the game. It's a pretty apt observation if you ask me, and while most of the games try to sell their progression as "sidegrades" most of the time there is one weapon that is better than all the others. That's because seperate but equal is not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If "most" of us don't get it, doesn't that make us the majority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treebyrn Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 GW2 is going to @#$!#$!@ crush this game. That is what I am hoping for.... for the longest time I wanted Swtor to be the game to end all games but I do not see that ever happening so now I am rooting for another game to cater to my pvp needs. GW2's WvWvWpvp looks amazing and maybe just what I have been looking for pvp wise . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If "most" of us don't get it, doesn't that make us the majority? Lawyered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 The majority of MMO players are casuals. People grind because that is what is put forth in front of them. They do this for a short time, then stop playing because of said grind. And what would you have them put there to keep people busy? If the toon doesnt get stronger people will quit, people do not want to just say "hey my toon is as strong as he will ever be, i can look different but by no means will i ever gain str so it can be fair for everyone" Players want the toon to gain str constantly, gear is the best way to do this. That is why MMO's are shaped the way they are..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhorzo Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Games appear to have discovered that if you have something to work for it keeps people motivated to play the game. It's a pretty apt observation if you ask me, and while most of the games try to sell their progression as "sidegrades" most of the time there is one weapon that is better than all the others. That's because seperate but equal is not possible. I just don't get why progression can't be cosmetic. Why does it always have to be "power-based". Aren't titles and cool-LOOKING gear enough? Isn't being on top of a scoreboard enough? Isn't fun enough? I like what WOW did. They had tournament realms. I wish more MMORPGs would do the same. If WOW had a 24/7 tournament realm with BGs (and Arenas, though I don't like arenas too much), I'd totally resub and play. I always hear about people wanting skill-based PVP... and so I assumed it wasn't just me. Apparently there's less of us than I thought. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 If "most" of us don't get it, doesn't that make us the majority? That would only hold true if the playerbase was 100% in the forums, forums are generally populated with the minority who just cry about the parts of the game they dont like. The majority just play........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice_Nihilim Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The success of MMO games isnt enough, the billions blizzard has made? I mean get real, seriously....... No you are wrong, the gear is the gear, it comes with the territory of an MMO. There are tons of other genre's for pvp without gear progression involved........ Lots of MMO's have been successful without a blatant gear grind. Blizzard is the exception, not the rule. Blizzard is not successful because of its gear grind, it is successful because a multitude of factors. If you know ANYTHING actually about the game and MMO industry, you would be fully aware of that. WoW made it on the stage, much like SWTOR did. No one really put out a decent title in a bit, with the nightmarish failures of Shadowbane, AO, AC2, and even the bug filled thing known as SWG. Blizz came on the scene presenting an easy and accessible game format, a known world, a reasonably stable launch for the era and a huge rep to drag in a significant squad of fanboi's. At that point in history, a 'quest grind' was unique and gear grinding wasn't something that even existed really for 99% of players in WoW in the first 6 months, only as they started adding there end game content did they start working on thta formula. The facts are that Blizz was successful based on timing, marketing and accessibility, the gear grind was just the final barb that hooked and already entrenched community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Guild Wars 2 will still have gear, they are just doing things differently http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3kb6OSyGRU Games have a crazy way of claiming things that turn out to not be true. So don't be shocked if this video is not 100% accurate when the game finally goes retail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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