Ewgal Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Some of the worst PvP you will ever encounter is in 10-49 bracket. AFKers and players who have no idea how to play huttball. Hardly ever see any healing for example. It isn't a golden place of epic skills on display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchase Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 People who think gear rewards are the standard for PvP probably have only played WoW. You really think the only way to progress your character is through obtaining better gear? DAoC rewarded players as they gained Realm Rank by giving them Realm Skill Points, which could be used to buy new abilities, such as "Ignore Pain" which was a self insta heal on a cooldown, or "augmented dexterity" which gave them more dex points if they were at the cap. Some mana heals, higher crit rates, etc. Gear was a non factor because every stat had a cap to it, so there were many ways you could cap your important stats through gear. Not only that, your realm rank was displayed with your name. So if you saw a Briton Lord running at you, you knew you were about to engage in combat with a player who knew what he was doing because he achieved that realm rank. Also the people who think that if there isn't gear to chase people wont PvP are sad. If your PvPing for the gear, then there is no talking to you, and you really shouldn't be talking in the PvP forum to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 People who think gear rewards are the standard for PvP probably have only played WoW. You really think the only way to progress your character is through obtaining better gear? DAoC rewarded players as they gained Realm Rank by giving them Realm Skill Points, which could be used to buy new abilities, such as "Ignore Pain" which was a self insta heal on a cooldown, or "augmented dexterity" which gave them more dex points if they were at the cap. Some mana heals, higher crit rates, etc. Gear was a non factor because every stat had a cap to it, so there were many ways you could cap your important stats through gear. Not only that, your realm rank was displayed with your name. So if you saw a Briton Lord running at you, you knew you were about to engage in combat with a player who knew what he was doing because he achieved that realm rank. Also the people who think that if there isn't gear to chase people wont PvP are sad. If your PvPing for the gear, then there is no talking to you, and you really shouldn't be talking in the PvP forum to begin with. Realm Rank Abilities are just gear by another game. All the gear is is a way to give additional or enhanced abilities to your character. Realm Rank Abilities were exactly the same. Just another way to give additional or enhanced abilities to your character. No different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alundo Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I want to go back to 1 - 49 bracket tbh. Fighting against 6 Battlemaster geared Sorcs and 2 Battlemaster geared, biochem abusing Assassins really isn't my idea of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izmaeth Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 At first it was actually hilarious to read all those "hardworking" people comments. A game is played for fun, at least in my case. My advice here, get a real job folks and play games just for fun. There's also a sad part in this discussion. It is the fact that many people believe that this game is boring and that they need to be payed in order to continue to play. It's so tedious and repetitive, that without any payment it's not worth their time, is it? The real issue is, would you keep playing if the game was fun but didn't provide any real "material" rewards...you know, just like in other games that are fun? If the game was good no one would care about the gear progression, right? Well, not exactly. This whole progression is an inherent part of human mentality - to constantly increase your wealth (no matter how do you define "wealth"), so game that is fun but also equipped with such feature will be perceived as better one. Problem here is that game devs are making mistake by catering to the most primitive aspect of the progression needs - to get more "shinies". With one move they're adding progression depth but also destroying fun for other players. Soon some companies will realize what is the solution to this problem and the rest will follow or just fail and be forgotten. In my opinion problem is at least partially solved with the mentioned FPS games that are adding progression. What's the progression there? You don't get bigger, better guns (yeah, you got different guns, but every gun, especially in hardcore modes, will let you deal with any player just fine). Instead they introduce ranks, fame, different gear look (camouflages, etc) and expand your bag of tricks allowing different strategies (not better, different). That's the way games will evolve, whether some selfish people want it or not. Progression is fine and welcomed but not at the price of fun. Making games is about money just as much as any other part of industry and no fun = no playing = no money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyranoc Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 New 50's who whinge are noobs who have been playing easy mode with AFK'ers and lowbies. Welcome to real competitive PvP. BYO tissues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 New 50's who whinge are noobs who have been playing easy mode with AFK'ers and lowbies. Welcome to real competitive PvP. BYO tissues. Ah, the dreaded "whinge". i think you mean whine Sorry, but ive seen this mistake like 20 times today and had finally just had enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjanz Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Why do you people feel the need to whine about this all the time? If any of you played vanilla WoW. The pvp was NOT balanced. I ran around in my t2.5 (AQ40) gear utterly demolishing grand marshals. The people who spent months and months doing pvp to get their gear. As long as you have gear with stats, pve or pvp. The PvP will always be unbalanced. If you remove expertise. The hardcore raiders will faceroll you to death. If you think it's hard to get the PvP gear in this game. Then good luck getting the PvE gear, that requires a guild. And hours of raiding. The PvP gear you can get in a few weeks if you're lucky. If you remove expertise gear I promise you, the PvP will take an ugly turn for the worse. All you casuals complaining about not having the time to get the gear. Well guess what, that's what you end up with in an mmo when you don't dedicate alot of time to the game. If you wanna be a casual scrub. Then you won't be the best player in the world, sorry to break it to yah. That's why wow has gone to ****, cuz blizzard keeps tailoring WoW to casual scrubs who spend 30 mins a day playing the game. So the players like me, who don't have a life. Get punished and end up with a game that isn't challenging on any level. Getting free gear without any effort or time put into it. QQ about expertise all you want. It won't change. So I suggest quit playing mmo's. And go spend time with your kids. Instead of trying to punish the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 New 50's who whinge are noobs who have been playing easy mode with AFK'ers and lowbies. Welcome to real competitive PvP. BYO tissues. Look at this special little snowflake. The pro expertise crowd, I found your poster boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyranoc Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Look at this special little snowflake. The pro expertise crowd, I found your poster boy. I arranged duels and 1vs1's using Orange gear and raid gear only to help the "expertise hurts my rectum" babies. As earlier mentioned raid gear does FAR MORE damage than any expertise allows. But the fact is win or lose you get commendations. You then use those commendations to buy champ bags which will in turn give you champ gear, and in turn expertise. Its a long and painful process that EVERYONE must go through. But its no different then going from lvl 10 - 49. As you progress the advantage they have over you drops dramatically. People like you are just butt hurt because you went from being top of the food chain in the 10-49 to the bottom feeder in 50 PvP. You can't expect to be the biggest and hardest on the battlefield in your first 50 WZ when your playing against people who were 50 before the early access was over. They did their time and earnt their gear. Do your time and you will have it too. Until then noobs should stop crying and complaining or just reroll and go back to the 10-49 bracket. Edited February 5, 2012 by Tyranoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krondorf Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I arranged duels and 1vs1's using Orange gear and raid gear only to help the "expertise hurts my rectum" babies. As earlier mentioned raid gear does FAR MORE damage than any expertise allows. But the fact is win or lose you get commendations. You then use those commendations to buy champ bags which will in turn give you champ gear, and in turn expertise. Its a long and painful process that EVERYONE must go through. But its no different then going from lvl 10 - 49. As you progress the advantage they have over you drops dramatically. People like you are just butt hurt because you went from being top of the food chain in the 10-49 to the bottom feeder in 50 PvP. You can't expect to be the biggest and hardest on the battlefield in your first 50 WZ when your playing against people who were 50 before the early access was over. They did their time and earnt their gear. Do your time and you will have it too. Until then noobs should stop crying and complaining or just reroll and go back to the 10-49 bracket. Nope, not everyone suffers. The early ones that reached 50 during the holidays had it easy.... Too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 the problem with no pvp gear means it becomes about pve progression dictating how good you are in pve from a gear perspective. Don't get me wrong this system is screwey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyranoc Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Nope, not everyone suffers. The early ones that reached 50 during the holidays had it easy.... Too easy. So because someone got a game/played the game/had more time to play the game you are all crying? That has nothing to do with BW or this game. That is YOUR problem. Of course someone who starts doing something first and has more time to do it will be better or have more resources. Thats the reality of things. I find that rather childish and pathetic that you are upset and think things arent fiar because of that reason. Time to grow up children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXCheXGuevaraXx Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Get rid of all gear stats and just have base stats for every level. Make the gear just about aesthetics. Then no one can complain about being undergeared since it will only be a matter of skill and class balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djalexa Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) No. It's not. Every MMO is different. If you want a measure of progression then go PVE. Measure yourself against a computer AI. We want to measure ourselves against other players. Not code. And there is no reason we could not do this in this MMORPG. Again, PLEASE explain what bragging rights you think you deserve SOLELY because you have more free time? Well you see ... you can actually extrapolate this thing in RL also! Having more money than somebody else makes me buying an A5 whilst that somebody is still driving his old Opel. Ofc, meeting me on the highway will demoralise you but it WILL MAYBE, MAYBE! ... give you an incentive to work harder and get the necessary money to buy that A5 and have the same ''rights'' as I do. It's not about ''rights'' here, really! The fact that you have less time than me to play is not actually my problem. It's solely yours! And I can't be blamed that I am playing more than you, and getting geared faster than you BECAUSE you don't have my free spare time. Everything is fair in love and .... war (PVP)! Edited February 5, 2012 by djalexa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursuul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Well you see ... you can actually extrapolate this thing in RL also! Having more money than somebody else makes me buying an A5 whilst that somebody is still driving his old Opel. Ofc, meeting me on the highway will demoralise you but it WILL MAYBE, MAYBE! ... give you an incentive to work harder and get the necessary money to buy that A5 and have the same ''rights'' as I do. It's not about ''rights'' here, really! The fact that you have less time than me to play is not actually my problem. It's solely yours! And I can't be blamed that I am playing more than you, and getting geared faster than you BECAUSE you don't have my free spare time. Everything is fair in love and .... war (PVP)! wow how do i go about pointing out your....... well here goes. the only way your real life analogy would aply is if we met on the highway to race and i was forced to race you heads up. see in this example you start with BETTER GEAR, thus clearly giving you an advantage that is nearly impossible to overcome. guess what i will do if im told i have to race you? i wont. i'll just leave. just like casuals will if they dont have.... wait for it..... oh ya.... FUN. Just because you are used to the current system doesn't mean it's a good system. at the end of the day it's a video game. if you like it and want it to stay around you should probably hope casuals play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantros Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Ahh MMO PvP, where skill is second to time invested because that's how it should be right? Well not really but that's how it is at the minute in most MMOs and it's not going to change due to the sheer number of average players that play them. I'm afraid you either have to suck it up and grind it out before you get to smash all the baddies who think they are "skilled" or go play a true PvP game because MMOs will never be unless they are built from the ground up with it in mind like EvE. Even then a lot of the fighting is who has the bigger blob. You can't expect to be the biggest and hardest on the battlefield in your first 50 WZ when your playing against people who were 50 before the early access was over. They did their time and earnt their gear. Quoted for hilarity. Edited February 5, 2012 by bantros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursuul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 ya but what does kill you will make you quit the game. cwhuteyedidthur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Having gear matter in pvp is honestly the dumbest thing about MMO pvp. When you can win a fight before a shot is launched just because you outgear somone does not make a good game. The problem is, how do you get people to pvp if gear doesn't matter and they don't have that carrot on a stick? I dont believe its the carrot on a stick, people pvp for fun. It's about offering equivalent to pve gear because flashpoints & operations offer upgrades. Without pvp gear pve'ers would just roflstomp over everyone as they did in vaniila till battlemasters gear was introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessell Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I left the 50s bracket and started a new toon to try the 1-49 bracket. I cannot believe how much better the pvp is even when I'm level 20. I do not feel underpowered at all and find the games to be much better balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeopardydd Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Having gear matter in pvp is honestly the dumbest thing about MMO pvp. When you can win a fight before a shot is launched just because you outgear somone does not make a good game. The problem is, how do you get people to pvp if gear doesn't matter and they don't have that carrot on a stick? a) for fun. (and it would be a lot more fun than it is now) b) there are other rewards, credits, ladders or rankings, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltaminus Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) The ironic thing about this thread is the fact that gear matters in the 10-49 bracket. Your stats scale. So the better your gear is at your level, the better it will scale when you enter 10-49 WZs, it was the same when everyone fought with 50s. So if gear scaled before and it still does now, than the only thing different now is that the ones that don't want to PvP at 50 are the ones that would rather stick to playing with much more easily obtained gear against inferior opponents. A brand new toon that just finished BT for the first time will **** in the 10-49 bracket because their gear is great for their level, this is no different from a level 50 wearing full Champions or Battlemaster gear. Edited February 5, 2012 by deltaminus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madwooki Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The only reason a lvl 49 can kill a lvl 10 is cause of abilities not gear in WZ's and even then the lvl 10 has a good chance. If you do not believe this then maybe pvp is not for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltaminus Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The only reason a lvl 49 can kill a lvl 10 is cause of abilities not gear in WZ's and even then the lvl 10 has a good chance. If you do not believe this then maybe pvp is not for you. One of the reasons a level 10 will beat a level 49 in a 10-49WZ is because the level 10 has the best gear for his level while the level 49 has been wearing the same thing since level 40. Better gear will make you stronger in 10-49WZs, this is a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I left the 50s bracket and started a new toon to try the 1-49 bracket. I cannot believe how much better the pvp is even when I'm level 20. I do not feel underpowered at all and find the games to be much better balanced. It will feel just as balanced when you also have your bm gear and expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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