fungihoujo Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Athletes- if you spend thousands of hours doing it, you might be good. TOR pvpers- if you spend thousands of hours doing it, you'll have the gear, and you might be good. That what you're getting at OP? I don't know many competitors in sports history that are spending less time at their craft than the pvpers spend gearing for theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brutem Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Everyone is playing a video game for fun. Everyone plays a multiplayer game for fun - whether you have fun simply playing a game or whether you only have fun winning a game. Fun is actually a funny thing, a new lv50 goes into a WZ to have fun, but is facerolled by people in full BM gear. While the person in full BM gear is having fun, its quite not fun being 3 shotted. What happens when a aspect is no longer fun? People either avoid it or go else where. PvP gear simply encourages a grind, It DOES NOT mean you are a skilled player, it simply means you spent time in a grind. Look at all the players whom went from 1-50 in the early access, why did they do that in a story driven MMO? Because they wanted to be able to farm the BM gear before others got it, simple as that. In other words these players felt they needed a crutch to give them an edge facing other players. Gear makes up for lack of skill in PVP and is nothing more than a crutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Fun is actually a funny thing, a new lv50 goes into a WZ to have fun, but is facerolled by people in full BM gear. While the person in full BM gear is having fun, its quite not fun being 3 shotted. What happens when a aspect is no longer fun? People either avoid it or go else where. PvP gear simply encourages a grind, It DOES NOT mean you are a skilled player, it simply means you spent time in a grind. Look at all the players whom went from 1-50 in the early access, why did they do that in a story driven MMO? Because they wanted to be able to farm the BM gear before others got it, simple as that. In other words these players felt they needed a crutch to give them an edge facing other players. Gear makes up for lack of skill in PVP and is nothing more than a crutch. Exactly. On the whole, PvP in TOR really isn't fun when this is the case. Why do I keep playing it? Because every once in a while you get that one game where it just so happens that everyone's gear is about equal, and it's a fiercely fought battle. Winning Voidstar with <30seconds left. Winning Alderan 10-0. Winning Huttball by frantically running away with the ball and the score tied as time runs out. Those games are FUN. But most of the time...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameNirvana Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Athletes- if you spend thousands of hours doing it, you might be good. TOR pvpers- if you spend thousands of hours doing it, you'll have the gear, and you might be good. That what you're getting at OP? I don't know many competitors in sports history that are spending less time at their craft than the pvpers spend gearing for theirs. Sorry man that's just not the way it works. When you play PvP, you grind for skill. If you want to use a proper analogy: sports players grind at their sport to get better at the game. PvP game players should also grind at their game to get better at it. It's as simple as that. You play to get better, not receive gear-based rewards that make you better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameNirvana Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 however, many people need to L2read. The OP isn't just about leagues and athletes. It's about the sport. Soccer is played by probably one billion people worldwide - mostly people just having fun in the "back yard". I play basketball just to have fun. I play it and want to be competitive at it. The story is that sports thrive all over the world because of competitiveness in people. You don't need to be an athlete. This is why it's more applicable to us. It's also the same reason why FPS are so successful. You don't have to be an FPS to have fair competition though. The MMO that realizes this and appeases more than one type of players will be better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Sorry man that's just not the way it works. When you play PvP, you grind for skill. If you want to use a proper analogy: sports players grind at their sport to get better at the game. PvP game players should also grind at their game to get better at it. It's as simple as that. You play to get better, not receive gear-based rewards that make you better. Does it really matter if you're grinding at it regardless? Also... that is how it works, so- In your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuckx Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Didn't read you post but would agree with the title. Why would they change this game in such a fundamental way when they have already developed it? They can't do it not, its too late, so if you don't want gear in a game, don't play this game. Guildwars is the only game I know that has insta pvp, but I don't know the game well. Try that if its what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Does it really matter if you're grinding at it regardless? Also... that is how it works, so- In your face. Yes it should. On one hand you are improving your own skill and on the other only your gear. What this means is that with the latter you have someone who is awful at the game but dominates people because he has better gear. Whoever with the former it means someone that is incredibly good at the game but doesn't have the gear is competitive. It's a much better system for PvP. Also just to chime in on the "money" thing... some starcraft players make an extremely nice living off being a pro-gamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lendaugy Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 need a TL;DR for the TL;DR These people are whats wrong with the human race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voloon Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Gawd, I'm so sick of these posts about gear. Get over it. Yes, in competition, ideally, you'd want people with the same gear, the same skill, the same classes, the same everything. That isn't life, nor would pvp or sports be very interesting if it was. The fact is, this is an MMO, gear will ALWAYS matter. Here's somethings you CAN complain about: 1) How you get the gear. 2) The disparity between the gear. 3) Access to the gear. However, complaining that there is a gear difference is just a complete willful ignorance of the genre. One of the biggest features of these kinds of games, is to show that my axe is bigger than yours, and no amount of philosophical posturing and analogies will change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Gawd, I'm so sick of these posts about gear. Get over it. Yes, in competition, ideally, you'd want people with the same gear, the same skill, the same classes, the same everything. That isn't life, nor would pvp or sports be very interesting if it was. Uh....what? You think the Super Bowl should be the Patriots against the Colts then? The best team vs the worst team, because trying to have equal match ups isn't "interesting"? Are you insane? Lopsided match ups are boring, both for the people watching and the people playing! Edited February 1, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delavager Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You are playing the wrong game. Go play Madden on XBox or the like. This is an mmoRPG. If you don't like the idea of building your character then GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME! Also your whole argument is flawed because DIFFERENT CLASSES ARE DIFFERENT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 snip blah snip Yeah those Romans didn't need gear to make an empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) You are playing the wrong game. Go play Madden on XBox or the like. This is an mmoRPG. If you don't like the idea of building your character then GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME! Also your whole argument is flawed because DIFFERENT CLASSES ARE DIFFERENT. What does "building your character" such that it is persistent advantages in PvP have to do with RPGs? Nothing. Edited February 1, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voloon Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 This isn't the Super Bowl. Not to mention each player will have different heights, muscle strength, positions, to different experience to the stadium, or what they ate that morning. No one said anything about pairing the worst players against the best players is a good thing. That's something YOU inferred because of your bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 This isn't the Super Bowl. Not to mention each player will have different heights, muscle strength, positions, to different experience to the stadium, or what they ate that morning. No one said anything about pairing the worst players against the best players is a good thing. That's something YOU inferred because of your bias. YOU are the one who suggested sports wouldn't be interesting if the teams were equal. Don't try to backpeddle now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyu Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Sports comparisons don't work. E-Sports comparisons are fair though, but what MMO has ever been an E-sport? WoW. In tournaments everyone has equal access to vendors to buy whatever they want and the most powerful items are usually removed. This is an MMO on retail servers with trivial PVP that doesn't mean anything yet in a game that is 5 weeks old. When rated Warzones come out there will probably be a change to make getting the pvp gear easier. Exactly. A retail MMO environment is not a "competitive" e-sport environment. Nor are all the players "professional players." WoW arena vs. WoW arena tournaments are exactly that. You can't make everyone "play on an even field," because normal players PAY to have fun and compare e-peens, while for tournaments players GET PAID. Until the graphic/frame rate/responsiveness of this game, the basic basic instrastructure is fixed, there can be no competitive SWTOR PvP regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voloon Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 As I mentioned in my post, there are differences already, because you can't comprehend that is not my problem, nor is it Bioware's problem you're playing the wrong game. There's plenty of great pvp games that don't have gear differences, I play a few of them. This ISN'T one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriam Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Quit whining. Just get the gear and then you are even footing. I happen to think that only skilled players should get the gear in a rating system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 As I mentioned in my post, there are differences already, because you can't comprehend that is not my problem, nor is it Bioware's problem you're playing the wrong game. There's plenty of great pvp games that don't have gear differences, I play a few of them. This ISN'T one of them. It is Bioware's problem they didn't make a good PvP game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You are playing the wrong game. Go play Madden on XBox or the like. This is an mmoRPG. If you don't like the idea of building your character then GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME! Also your whole argument is flawed because DIFFERENT CLASSES ARE DIFFERENT. Wow... this... is sad. RPG's are about progression yes. STORY progression. Where in the hell this got twisted to be about gear progression is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
araphina Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Didn't trudge through all the responses so this may have already been mentioned. PvP, in this game or any other mmo, revolves around a conflict. War, so to speak. Huttball is just a way to deal with faction imbalance without completely disregarding the central conflict of the game, Empire vs Republic. In war, as this game emulates, the side with the biggest gun is often the victor. Military advancements have been the norm since the beginning of the human age. Let's give everyone equal guns before a battle and see which side has the most skill! Yeah... not gonna happen. The carrot-on-a-stick paradigm is a staple of MMOs. Anyone who can't seem to grasp this concept is obviously new to the genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Wow... this... is sad. RPG's are about progression yes. STORY progression. Where in the hell this got twisted to be about gear progression is beyond me. It happened about 10 years ago. Welcome to the genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mertissielle Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Roman gladiatorial combat was somewhat gear-based, I'd wager. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordniah Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) your argument fails, in modern sports competitions, say soccer, money dictates who wins. whoever has the most money can buy the best players, gets the best training equipment and trainers etc... other then that, this is a computer game with classes with different abilties and to some extent a rock/paper/scissors mechanic which makes your argument even more flawed. And then there is the sport of running. It's a sport dominated by poor Africans who live in small communities eating rice and drinking tea while running 100+ miles a week. Edited February 1, 2012 by lordniah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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