Announcing The Old Republic Guild Summit

[Tarka]

no not saying that. Don't put words in my mouth. I am saying that they most likely are regular customers.

 

Interesting, considering the amount of times that guilds rise and fall in an MMO. One cannot say with any degree of certainty that a guild comprises of regular customers.

 

Whilst a guild might be created with the intention to stay with a game, that is not always the case.

 

1.) Being a guild leader doesn't make you a fanboy in fact I would bet that some of the cherry picked guild leaders are from guilds that are quite audible in their dissatisfaction yet are still playing and waiting for things to improve.

 

You can bet all you like, but we've yet to know much in the way of details as to who was actually chosen.

 

In an in-person discussion the people leading the discussion can outright stop people from going to far off topic with the discussion.

 

Don't the GM's do that exact same thing?

 

yes that may happen, that's why there are also people there from smaller guilds which will influence them to make the end game easier for small groups. However one shouldn't forget it is a social game. It should be based around groups accomplishing things together. In that regard you have two options. You can either Raid or PvP. Both of these are done in ops groups. That is what end game is in a social game.

 

No, you don't just have two options. You are distilling the list of end game activities down to suit your own argument. You have just proved my point about having agendas and how people have different perspectives about what THEY see as viable end game content.

 

You are also confusing the subject of grouping in general, and grouping solely with guild mates. THAT is also part of the problem. People are advocating how these guild leaders are somehow indicative of the entire population. Based on what? Which comes back to what I said earlier about people having their own agendas. But not necessarily wildly diverse ones. Do you know what their agendas are? No.

[Tarka]

I've been in a number of large and successful MMO guilds over the years, going back as far as 2003. One thing I can say definitively is guild leaders, more and more as of late, suffer from a major disconnect with what a game entails. They turn into one part hedge fund director, one part social planner, one part oligarch. This is a thinly-veiled press conference disguised as a "community panel." If they had bothered with this kind of interaction with us durring beta, the game would have been more solid at launch.

 

I'm glad to see someone else is in touch with reality, rather than looking at the situation through "rose tinted glasses".

[ManOSteal]

• Guild Leveling
  
• Companions in Endgame (companion dailys, weeklys story missions)
  
• Current Crafting System
  
• Future of the Crafting System
  
• Tionese/Columi tokens and their useful ness in current state
  
• Warzone current state, plans for ques as a 8 man?
  
• Increased guild management tools
  
• Small feature request / discussion (Ready checks, /rolls, ect)
  
• Class balancing
  
• The future of pure single player content (story)
  
• The future of Artifice and other neglaticed crafting (I have yet to see a recp. drop for artifice in raids)
  

 

I am , today, going to be gathering a list from my guild. As I know even if I dont get picked I will want to be apart of the public aspect. I want to get as much information for them as I can.

 

gotta say I'm down for your whole list actually especially the companion bit. having an interaction with them on an at least weekly basis in the end game would be fun. As far as I can tell currently at end game the only thing I am going to be using my companions for is when I am ganking or crafting things. I don't do the former very often so the actual in game utility seems lacking. Having a little quest with them would be interesting and give them a use and a reason to be fully geared out. Maybe something like a crew flashpoint where you go in with your whole crew to do a quick dungeon run once a week.

[Dragonexadon]

I'm glad to see someone else is in touch with reality, rather than looking at the situation through "rose tinted glasses".

 

I don't think it is fair that, just because someone disagrees with you, makes them not in touch with reality. You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

[AERHAE]

So are they done selecting folks for this event?

Will there be more invites sent out?

[Dragonexadon]

gotta say I'm down for your whole list actually especially the companion bit. having an interaction with them on an at least weekly basis in the end game would be fun. As far as I can tell currently at end game the only thing I am going to be using my companions for is when I am ganking or crafting things. I don't do the former very often so the actual in game utility seems lacking. Having a little quest with them would be interesting and give them a use and a reason to be fully geared out. Maybe something like a crew flashpoint where you go in with your whole crew to do a quick dungeon run once a week.

 

Agreed The companions just feel dead once you finish the game. I want them to be randomly sending me mail, asking me to do a task for them, having drama built around their day to day live. Not just them stuck in the ship throughout endgame.

[Dragonexadon]

So are they done selecting folks for this event?

Will there be more invites sent out?

 

The invites are over with as far as guilds they picked prior to announcing the event. Now any guild leader can apply and have a chance to get in.

[Tarka]

I don't think it is fair that, just because someone disagrees with you, makes them not in touch with reality. You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

 

I never said that everyone who disagrees with me is not in touch with reality. The fact remains though that some appear to be putting great stock into this summit, when in reality it's nothing more than words. No actual action. Perhaps some are "star struck" at the possibility that they will affect the future of the game.

 

Besides, this whole situation reminds me of a scene from the "Life of Brian":

 

 

Judith: "They've arrested Brian!"

Reg: "Right!!!.....This calls for an immediate...discussion!"

 

Bioware has the information they need ALREADY. So why do they need a summit.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Tarka

[DTuloJr]

I bolded and underlined the part of your post I would like explained, also by the sound of your rhetoric your assuming you have been invited or will be attending the summit.

 

Firstly let me tell you I enjoy a game that does not force players to group, also unlike Cataclysm where super sized guilds were enforced I prefer to play alone or with a few firends. There are many players like me, will you be supporting their needs in this game? or are you just out to encourage a greater amount of complexity & difficulty?

 

The rest of your paragrapgh is just yada yada yada, insult, insult, yada.

 

The first press releases and interviews with studio execs, management, and devs, discussed a "fully realized online world", MMO gaming and customer happiness, and a balance between theme park and sandbox MMOs. It was claimed that SWTOR would run a middle ground between the two formats. Somehwere in the last couple of years, they've pretty much abandoned their original plans, and scaled everything back into a shadow of what they envisioned, and what they had the opportunity to accomplish. Obviously, there were reasons for it, and we'll likely never know why what was said was said, and what was delivered, was no where near what they originally said. BioWare AUSTIN owes none of us an explanation, period. All I'd like, is for them to strive to achieve more of what they originally told us was their vision.

 

As it stands now, what they released is, in my professional opinion, mediocre, when both compared to their original vision, and what's currently on the market in direct competition. With respect to the former, I've addressed that, with respect to the latter, simply put, they had 7 years worth of research on what works by Blizzard, Trion, and a plethora of other MMO companies and products, and they seem to have learned *nothing* about what customers like, dislike, works, doesn't work, etc. They built SWTOR to compete with vanilla WoW's feature set, then dropped the ball and forgot to update their plan as they built the game for us. (EDIT: Plus, they ignored just about everything major that their beta testers told them, for over a full year prior to launch) Hence, it's a good game that they gave us, but is currently mediocre.

 

No, I have not been selected to attend the summit, though if asked I would certainly attempt to attend. For those that seem to be calling the current selectees as having received a paid vacation... unless their potentially missed wages are also being paid by BWA, then no, I doubt it's a vacation. Pretty much everyone who holds a real job will have to choose; use acrued vacation time, or take a pay hit.

 

I, too, prefer to play solo, or if I can drag friends off of WoW, with those I actually know. However, while I *do* like SWTOR, I feel that it's... uneven, unpolished, and unbalanced, when specifically talking about the progression of the 8 stories from planet to planet, region to region, and overall feel and playstyle of the character classes.

 

As to claiming I'm insulting to BWA... not at all. I simply won't gloss over true facts and excuse occasional bad or seemingly arrogant behavior on the part of the devs. I've been there, I've seen it all, and I'll call 'em on it when its deserved.

 

What *IS* nice is the fact that they're attempting to actually do the right thing and reach out to some customers, regardless if they're cherry picked or not. Yes, BWA has an agenda, everyone does. I won't fault them for attempting to do the right thing. Now, if they just use the event for a PR boost to bump EA stock, then they'll be called on that too, buy a whole lot of people. Not that it's illegal, but it will certainly hurt their customers trust in them. Trust is earned, something most people at companies, forget. And BioWare Austin does NOT get my trust, simply because they're associated with BioWare. This is their first studio title, and this is what they're going to use as the foundation to build that trust. Right now, it hasn't solidified. This is their opportunity.

Edited February 3, 2012 by DTuloJr

[AERHAE]

The invites are over with as far as guilds they picked prior to announcing the event. Now any guild leader can apply and have a chance to get in.

 

Thank you.

I applied based off of the announcement,seeing I might here something before Feb.15th based off of my application completion.

Great Idea,I look forward to a chance to get a invite.

[ManOSteal]

Interesting, considering the amount of times that guilds rise and fall in an MMO. One cannot say with any degree of certainty that a guild comprises of regular customers.

 

 

Whilst a guild might be created with the intention to stay with a game, that is not always the case.

 

hence they cherry picked ones they feel are good for a focus group that seem interested in the long haul of the game. As well as allowing people to apply for a spot.

 

You can bet all you like, but we've yet to know much in the way of details as to who was actually chosen.

 

nor do I really need to. I'm confident with my bare knowledge of this sort of this thing that you don't just chose people that are going to stroke your ego. If you do that you just keep your current customers and don't gain or re-gain subscribers.

 

 

Don't the GM's do that exact same thing?

 

SO your saying they should start a discussion and just massively delete posts and edit posts and ban people from the conversation. Essentially doing the cherry picking in reverse. Yeah that is turbo efficient.

 

No, you don't just have two options. You are distilling the list of end game activities down to suit your own argument. You have just proved my point about having agendas and how people have different perspectives about what THEY see as viable end game content.

 

Okay well then if your not going to raid or pvp then what are you going to do at endgame and why does a focal point falling on those things change what your going to do. Also what changes would you like to see come about maybe people can add them to their talking points that they bring to the summit.

 

You are also confusing the subject of grouping in general, and grouping solely with guild mates. THAT is also part of the problem. People are advocating how these guild leaders are somehow indicative of the entire population. Based on what? Which comes back to what I said earlier about people having their own agendas. But not necessarily wildly diverse ones. Do you know what their agendas are? No.

 

Just pay attention to the new direction in which I am trying to carry the conversation. If you stop complaining about something that is happening no matter what and instead start a conversation about what the motives and agendas of people going into this summit are (sorta the point of the thread) you will have very little to complain about.

[Benfynyn]

i've been in a number of large and successful mmo guilds over the years, going back as far as 2003. One thing i can say definitively is guild leaders, more and more as of late, suffer from a major disconnect with what a game entails. They turn into one part hedge fund director, one part social planner, one part oligarch. This is a thinly-veiled press conference disguised as a "community panel." if they had bothered with this kind of interaction with us durring beta, the game would have been more solid at launch.

 

^^this

[Tarka]

hence they cherry picked ones they feel are good for a focus group that seem interested in the long haul of the game. As well as allowing people to apply for a spot.

 

Now you're just guessing at what they did and their intentions.

 

nor do I really need to. I'm confident with my bare knowledge of this sort of this thing that you don't just chose people that are going to stroke your ego. If you do that you just keep your current customers and don't gain or re-gain subscribers.

 

Whilst I admire your confidence in Bioware, I think it is perhaps misplaced. But, you're entitled to feel this way irrespective of the lack of information to support your theory.

 

SO your saying they should start a discussion and just massively delete posts and edit posts and ban people from the conversation. Essentially doing the cherry picking in reverse. Yeah that is turbo efficient.

 

Nope. I'm just pointing out how the justification you cited in favour of this summit is essentially the same as what is ALREADY going on in the forums.

 

Okay well then if your not going to raid or pvp then what are you going to do at endgame and why does a focal point falling on those things change what your going to do. Also what changes would you like to see come about maybe people can add them to their talking points that they bring to the summit.

 

A good question indeed. Well, for starters there are the possibility of dailies (though at this time, they are kinda mediocre), crafting (which sorely needs attention), and a wealth of other possibilities which COULD be implemented to provide a variety of activities at end game. End game isn't and shouldn't be, just about raiding or pvp.

 

Possibilities, which I might add, that have been suggested MANY times on these forums. Thus proving that a summit isn't really needed. What is needed is action.

 

Are you going to get action in a "discussion"? No.

 

Just pay attention to the new direction in which I am trying to carry the conversation. If you stop complaining about something that is happening no matter what and instead start a conversation about what the motives and agendas of people going into this summit are (sorta the point of the thread) you will have very little to complain about.

 

I am not just "complaining", as you put it. I am responding to replies to my posts. YOU are one of the people responding to them. It's interesting thought how you are fully for discussion on this forum, and yet earlier tried to discredit it as a valid medium for having productive discussions.

[Dragonexadon]

Thank you.

I applied based off of the announcement,seeing I might here something before Feb.15th based off of my application completion.

Great Idea,I look forward to a chance to get a invite.

 

No problem man. Good luck to you

[ManOSteal]

Now you're just guessing at what they did and their intentions.

 

 

 

Whilst I admire your confidence in Bioware, I think it is perhaps misplaced. But, you're entitled to feel this way irrespective of the lack of information to support your theory.

 

 

 

Nope. I'm just pointing out how the justification you cited in favour of this summit is essentially the same as what is ALREADY going on in the forums.

 

 

 

A good question indeed. Well, for starters there are the possibility of dailies (though at this time, they are kinda mediocre), crafting (which sorely needs attention), and a wealth of other possibilities which COULD be implemented to provide a variety of activities at end game. End game isn't and shouldn't be, just about raiding or pvp.

 

Possibilities, which I might add, that have been suggested MANY times on these forums. Thus proving that a summit isn't really needed. What is needed is action.

 

Are you going to get action in a "discussion"? No.

 

 

 

I am not just "complaining", as you put it. I am responding to replies to my posts. YOU are one of the people responding to them. It's interesting thought how you are fully for discussion on this forum, and yet earlier tried to discredit it as a valid medium for having productive discussions.

 

 

I'd keep going like I have before on your posts, but you hit the nail on the head and I'm not feeding the fire that is your posts anymore. Yes I will try to get a bit of conversation started here if only to detract from persons such as yourself who in some way see a company actually talking to its customers as a bad thing. In closing the reason they need to do it in an in-person setting is because it is almost impossible for them to have a back and forth conversation about all topics in this forum in a quick and efficient manner. To put it in perspective I will have lost these posts back and forth with you entirely by tomorrow while if we were talking in person we could actually make progress in a subject.

[Tarka]

I'd keep going like I have before on your posts, but you hit the nail on the head and I'm not feeding the fire that is your posts anymore. Yes I will try to get a bit of conversation started here if only to detract from persons such as yourself who in some way see a company actually talking to its customers as a bad thing. In closing the reason they need to do it in an in-person setting is because it is almost impossible for them to have a back and forth conversation about all topics in this forum in a quick and efficient manner. To put it in perspective I will have lost these posts back and forth with you entirely by tomorrow while if we were talking in person we could actually make progress in a subject.

 

I don't think talking to customers is a bad thing. You're putting words into my mouth. I merely question the validity of THIS summit and what will be achieved by it, which couldn't be achieved via other, more productive and cost effective means.

 

I asked that question earlier to Bioware, they've still yet to answer it.

 

Now, want to talk about making progress?

 

On the one hand, you have Bioware spending time, effort and money on a "summit" where they have to pay for hosting it, along with airfares and people having to take time off from work (including the devs I might add). A date is set, so naturally everyone has to wait for that date to arrive before ANYTHING of substance comes of this whole situation. Once ended, then Bioware have to digest the information received and then churn out some sort of action. Will they tell us the results of the summit? We don't know. Even at THAT point, no tangible result has been achieved. It's just words and discussions.

 

Now, on the other, Bioware could conduct surveys, designed for specific "viewpoints" on the product. These COMMUNITY WIDE surveys could result in giving Bioware the necessary concise information that they are looking for. Such surveys could also allow the individual to provide comments under each question. Thus giving Bioware the same information as this "summit" would in a far quicker, cheaper way and is collated in an organised fashion. No need to set dates in venues. No paying for airfares. No time off from their normal work place (inc the devs). No discussions. No difference of opinions. No arguments. No thousand questions all being thrown at the devs at once. No cherry picking questions and replying with "We can't talk about that yet". None of that. Just clear, direct feedback from EACH and EVERY member of the community (assuming everyone wants to complete the survey) to the devs. With no one interfering between those two points. The results could then be shown on the forums for people to discuss. THAT is involving the ENTIRE community.

 

So now, tell me, which makes the most progress sooner? Hmmm?

 

 

At this point, I'm going to bow out from this discussion. I would like to thank for proving my point all along that "open" or "round table" discussions can sometimes, ultimately, end up getting you nowhere. Focused surveys don't fall foul to such things. Bioware have a lot of the data they need already, what the community needs is action. Not just mere words in a summit.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Tarka

[Dragonexadon]

On a completely different tip what are some of the subjects people are hoping they cover at this event.

 

I'm hoping for some guild perks. It is one of the few things I saw that other game do in recent history where I was like wow how was that not a feature of guilds for like forever. The one I want in particular right now is guild capitol ships or fleets. nothing to crazy but something you can bring outsiders to in your ship for RP and stuff like that.

 

 

• Guild Leveling
  
• Companions in Endgame (companion dailys, weeklys story missions)
  
• Current Crafting System
  
• Future of the Crafting System
  
• Tionese/Columi tokens and their useful ness in current state
  
• Warzone current state, plans for ques as a 8 man?
  
• Increased guild management tools
  
• Small feature request / discussion (Ready checks, /rolls, ect)
  
• Class balancing
  
• The future of pure single player content (story)
  
• The future of Artifice and other neglaticed crafting (I have yet to see a recp. drop for artifice in raids)
  

 

I am , today, going to be gathering a list from my guild. As I know even if I dont get picked I will want to be apart of the public aspect. I want to get as much information for them as I can.

 

So what other topics would you guys like to see? Lets get some productive post going.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Dragonexadon

[Maxell_Snow]

I do not agree with cherry picked guilds being the only ones invited to such an event. Many other games have a wide open forum for player/dev interaction during their fan faire and this seems too structured to have any real feedback. Regardless of how you cut it, bioware will be getting feedback from a single segment of the population.

 

I would be curious to know how they chose guilds. Did they run metric son play time? Total up pvp kills? Assume a guild with 100+ members is more relevant than a guild with 30 that are on twice as much?

 

Consider the guild leader that could care less about something like this and the guild member that has participated in this capacity for other games in the past, what are they to do?

 

I would really urge the powers that be that if they in fact want to create a player base representing body, they do so openingly and base it on profession, playstyle, server, etc. When done this way and efforts and responses from devs are very transparent, it becomes an outstanding resource for the dev team. This would need a forum reorganization to really be effective but again, a few months in, I'd like to see where this goes.

[Ransom_BiC]

57 pages of crap from people complaining about this event, instead of a mature discussion about the top 10 things people would like to see discussed.

 

And not, "Fix bugs".

 

How about some serious discussion about specific things people want to see addressed

Edited February 3, 2012 by Ransom_BiC

[ManOSteal]

So what other topics would you guys like to see? Lets get some productive post going.

 

going back through I saw a lot of good suggestions near the beginning like cross faction emotes which being from an RP-PvP server I am fully in support of. Also being a big fan and hoping the game lasts a while I have the question about when they expand the game later, if we get to that point. What are they going to do with class quests? Without giving spoilers some of the class quest lines end things fairly well and with fairly few loose ends and possibly even with major forces in the galaxy changing. How will these class stories affect the game world in the event of an expansion, and do they plan on extending the class stories as that is one of the driving points of the game?

[Dragonexadon]

snip

 

On the same topic I want to know , when they do expand it, how will they keep old planets still alive and active. I want a reason to go back to Tython and visit the Jedi temple.

[LordPlucky]

57 pages of crap from people complaining about this event, instead of a mature discussion about the top 10 things people would like to see discussed.

 

And not, "Fix bugs".

 

How about some serious discussion about specific things people want to see addressed

 

Its all going to be a guided pannel anyway.

[ManOSteal]

On the same topic I want to know , when they do expand it, how will they keep old planets still alive and active. I want a reason to go back to Tython and visit the Jedi temple.

 

hmmm same here kind of but at the same time I think the only way to do this is to either put already existing open areas behind story walls or to make the story walls work for multiple different story phases which would be really hard to change I'm guessing but I like the idea.

 

 

Also are they ever even going to entertain the idea of letting the player make a choice of their side post character creation. Like say I am a dark side Jedi can I ever fully fall and become a Sith. (I know it is a pipe dream but I would love for the alignment system to dictate a little more than looks and gear).

[Maxell_Snow]

57 pages of crap from people complaining about this event, instead of a mature discussion about the top 10 things people would like to see discussed.

 

And not, "Fix bugs".

 

How about some serious discussion about specific things people want to see addressed

 

That is pretty much my point. There are a large handful of people taking it upon themselves to compile bug lists across multiple boards with no big overall picture. Will it be these people that have put in work and pieced together an effective list or the guild leader that has 100 names on his roster getting to go? Seemingly there is no way (without a lot of legwork) to tie a forum user account to a 'guild' so how exactly do the invites get sent out again?

[ManOSteal]

That is pretty much my point. There are a large handful of people taking it upon themselves to compile bug lists across multiple boards with no big overall picture. Will it be these people that have put in work and pieced together an effective list or the guild leader that has 100 names on his roster getting to go? Seemingly there is no way (without a lot of legwork) to tie a forum user account to a 'guild' so how exactly do the invites get sent out again?

 

actually it is fairly easy to associate a forum member to guild as the forum account has characters attached to it and those characters are in a guild and their rank in the guild is recorded.