RE is such a farce.

[_Flin_]

Facts are not subjective, although this postmodern thinking has gained some momentum lately (also see: Climate Change).

 

RE is not broken, apart from Armstech offhands. Which are broken, because you can't RE them.

 

RE uses a random number generator (RNG) with a low and flat chance of between 3% and 4%. One characteristic of RNGs is the seemingly absurd heaps of similar or equal numbers. While humans somehow expect a more even distribution (making them even, and the opposite of random).

 

So... RE isn't "broken" in any way (except for Armstech offhands). Some just expect a different behaviour, a higher chance, a rising chance, or not learning the same schematic again.

Edited February 7, 2012 by _Flin_

[Varturius]

Facts are not subjective, although this postmodern thinking has gained some momentum lately (also see: Climate Change).

 

RE is not broken, apart from Armstech offhands. Which are broken, because you can't RE them.

 

RE uses a random number generator (RNG) with a low and flat chance of between 3% and 4%. One characteristic of RNGs is the seemingly absurd heaps of similar or equal numbers. While humans somehow expect a more even distribution (making them even, and the opposite of random).

 

So... RE isn't "broken" in any way (except for Armstech offhands). Some just expect a different behaviour, a higher chance, a rising chance, or not learning the same schematic again.

 

This.

 

 

That's not to say RE doesn't suck of course.

[Shalewind]

That's not to say RE doesn't suck of course.

 

This.

[Rhinzual]

This.

 

 

That's not to say RE doesn't suck of course.

 

What makes it broken is that you level entirely too quickly for whatever crafted blues or purples to be of any use.

[Nitblade]

Actually NO, it's not an OPINION when so many people come and say "RE IS BROKEN". See that is a statement of FACT, not OPINION. It is an INCORRECT statement but it is nevertheless a statement of supposed fact.

 

Next, I've seen plenty of posts saying that Bioware is outright lying to their face about RE not having changed so why in the world would me being an employee mean anything to the conspiracy theorists.

 

And again, fine, so the theory is that RE is broken for SOME people right? Because you can not possibly be trying to argue that it is broken for EVERYBODY. Plenty of people have made plenty of schems since the last patch.

 

Let me use the same argument I've used before - if you win the lotto once, then every time you buy a lotto ticket you cry about how you haven't won it again, how seriously do you think people would take your complaint?

 

I don't need to play nice. I know better than other people because YOU ALL THINK RE IS BROKEN and yet I (and plenty of people I know) make new schems ALL the time. So unless I'm the super-best crafter of all time (which would be awesome) then you're all wrong. Period.

 

PS QQ more people, seriously. I used to actually empathize with you complainers but that was about 1000 "RE got broked in da last patch omgz" posts ago.

 

Beside being rude please take notice here

 

The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation.

 

Patrick Malott

Systems Designer

 

Or are you going to accuse a BW employe of lying here.

[ccpl_fisher]

I think that very difficult RE is the whole point of the system. It takes so long and is so expensive to get that one perfect purple schematic that it makes it impossible for any one crafter to get them all. Only the truly dedicated crafters will be able to get those rare recipes, and the idea is that then they will make and sell that item. That's the theory anyways. Of course the problem is that the rest of the crafting process is so easy and painless that it feels kinda weird to mindlessly grind out a purple recipe, and luck is far too much of a factor in such a system.

 

The problem is that there is not enough market once you finally get that purple recipe. ROI is terrible because you can get better gear than you can make in a week or two of raiding.

[Larkie]

Beside being rude please take notice here

 

 

 

Or are you going to accuse a BW employe of lying here.

 

Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing. Did he say RE was broken at some point but was working correctly prior to that? Let alone whatever magical patch it is that you think RE stopped working? He did not.

 

"It's not working as intended" does not mean that ANYTHING has changed since day 1.

 

Here's the meaning behind the vague wording: People are crying too much so we're going to make it easier.

[dreamdahon]

I feel like im rubbing salt in wounds, but I just have to point out that ive had great luck with procing purps in last day. Ive learned 4 new 22 purp enhancements out of maybe 20 blues since yesterday. Maybe im just lucky but that puts me at 18 lvl 49 purp recipes overall. I don't farm the same recipe in stacks like most people semm too. I usually make 2 of 5 to 10 different blues at a time, but then again never really trying for a recipe in particular, i just make to sell on gtn

[Larkie]

I feel like im rubbing salt in wounds, but I just have to point out that ive had great luck with procing purps in last day. Ive learned 4 new 22 purp enhancements out of maybe 20 blues since yesterday. Maybe im just lucky but that puts me at 18 lvl 49 purp recipes overall. I don't farm the same recipe in stacks like most people semm too. I usually make 2 of 5 to 10 different blues at a time, but then again never really trying for a recipe in particular, i just make to sell on gtn

 

I guess nobody told you that RE is broken from the last patch and you can't get any purples??

 

Lol, seriously though, please rub away. They can't cry any more than they already are.

[Marlaine]

Don't forget that by the time you get what you want, the odds are something better already dropped for you as well.

 

So? Crafting isn't meant for your character. It's meant for crafters who want to sell stuff. The fact that you could use crafted items for your character is a bonus.

[Marlaine]

Sure it's RNG. A RNG with horrible odds. That's really the complaint people have; the odds are just way too low.

 

And if they weren't the market would be flooded with nothing but purples. Try to think of the big picture.

[wainot-keel]

What makes it broken is that you level entirely too quickly for whatever crafted blues or purples to be of any use.

 

 

Is not that you level too quickly, is just the process of getting those items is ludicrously costly and time consuming.

 

I mostly solo PvE, and aside from the occasional "pug" for some heroic, that's it. I have no interest in PvP, warzones and whatevs. I roleplay my character and I play for the story, which here on these forums seems to be reduced to just "leveling". When the story ends, I'll create another character, there's a huge a amount of content. I don't see crafting as "end-game" thing, if there's no more story that character's game has ended.

 

I see crafting doesn't fit with my playstyle. It's just not viable. I can't update my gear with it (not if I make a reasonable playthrough I mean ). I can get decent stuff just by trading commendations.

 

Reverse Engineering is just a fancy name for a gamble, which can only be sustained by grinding. Not my thing.

 

I won't drop Artifice in my character, but for the next one I think I'll just stick with Slicing and perhaps Diplomacy, if I want a source of LS/DS points.

[Amiracle]

And if they weren't the market would be flooded with nothing but purples. Try to think of the big picture.

 

I've made lvl 49 mastercraft purples. 2 days later it ended up in my mail. And then I just broke it down for mats.

 

Not worth the effort when you can buy cheap orange and do dailies for mods and end up with the same or better for less effort.

[Blackardin]

RE a green enhancement, 2nd try I get the blue schematic. I am working to get 6 enhancements to blue (then purple). The next two I am at 20 REs for both without a blue schematic. I am out of materials so I have to go spend the time to gather a bunch more. My average has been about 8 for blues and 15 for purples (across al levels). I generally gather my own materials, unless someone puts them up cheap on the GTN.

 

This one paragraph encapsulates the entirety of the problem with a computerized random number generator. It has nothing to do with overall percentages. I honestly believe that they work out. It is the situation where one hits what is called "an unlucky streak" and runs aground with the problem stated above. It is further complicated by the fact that, with a high fail rate, one would end up exceeding the level in which the item sought would be applicable.

 

Items of finality, end game items, best in slot should all be "challenging". However, level 21 blues or purples should be nothing of the sort as they are only applicable for two to four levels.

 

I'm not sure who first entertained the idea that crafting should be a system based upon failure, but it is a faulty premise from which to proceed. Crafting should be fun, entertaining, personally useful, not something that breeds frustration and resentment derived from a rate of failure.

[Blackardin]

Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing. Did he say RE was broken at some point but was working correctly prior to that? Let alone whatever magical patch it is that you think RE stopped working? He did not.

 

"It's not working as intended" does not mean that ANYTHING has changed since day 1.

 

Here's the meaning behind the vague wording: People are crying too much so we're going to make it easier.

 

Your interpretation is incorrect, as well as your assumption that difficulty relates to a positive gaming experience. This is not a question of easy or difficult, but of a system that breeds frustration based on random, uncontrolled results that clearly have a propensity to run amok.

 

People are not "crying", they are voicing complaint for a system that the developers have agreed is not working correctly. To argue the former would be sophomoric.

[Larkie]

Your interpretation is incorrect, as well as your assumption that difficulty relates to a positive gaming experience. This is not a question of easy or difficult, but of a system that breeds frustration based on random, uncontrolled results that clearly have a propensity to run amok.

 

People are not "crying", they are voicing complaint for a system that the developers have agreed is not working correctly. To argue the former would be sophomoric.

 

Oh? So you which patch is it that the devs say RE broke on and for what percentage of the population did it break? Or are you going to agree with certain people's opinion that not only did it break on a specific patch but it also broke for everybody? Hm?

 

I'm not in the least bit frustrated with the system. Is it the best crafting system it could be? Nope, but making RE easy isn't the way to fix it. As for "results running amok" that's a preposterous presumption to make. The "results" are not sentient beings.

[Larkie]

This one paragraph encapsulates the entirety of the problem with a computerized random number generator. It has nothing to do with overall percentages. I honestly believe that they work out. It is the situation where one hits what is called "an unlucky streak" and runs aground with the problem stated above. It is further complicated by the fact that, with a high fail rate, one would end up exceeding the level in which the item sought would be applicable.

 

Items of finality, end game items, best in slot should all be "challenging". However, level 21 blues or purples should be nothing of the sort as they are only applicable for two to four levels.

 

I'm not sure who first entertained the idea that crafting should be a system based upon failure, but it is a faulty premise from which to proceed. Crafting should be fun, entertaining, personally useful, not something that breeds frustration and resentment derived from a rate of failure.

 

EVERY level 21 implants was super easy to go from blue to purple1. Not super easy to go from purple1 to purple2 but why in the world should it be? Are purple2's necessary for survival and are they not available from anybody else in the galaxy?

 

And who in the world told you that crafting was supposed to go along at exactly the same rate as you level? One, crafting is not necessarily about crafting for yourself. That's called interdependency. Two, people level at vastly different rates. Which person's leveling is it you think it's supposed to follow?

 

If you want the schems to be super-easy to get then just put them for sale on the trainer along with the greens and be done with it.

[thewatcheruatu]

Disagree with OP. Worked fine for me when I was crafting while I leveled; always had crit blues, purples or mastercrafts ready for me when I leveled. Possibly just horrible luck.

 

Keep in mind advance schematics are permanent, so they should not be easy to obtain or the market would be overrun.

 

Maybe at the highest level this is true, but at lower levels, I don't think the market would be overrun, if only because purple items are so damn expensive to craft, compared with the fact that perfectly acceptable blue items are typically dropping off mobs, being rewarded by quests, or simply being purchased off of the GTN for not a lot of credits.

 

Once you factor in the opportunity cost of all of the reverse engineering you did + crafting cost of the actual desired item, it's not really a good investment. Just my opinion. Hell, I use greens mostly for leveling, unless I just happened to get a blue schematic while grinding up my skill. Hell--sometimes even if I have the blue schematic, I won't make it. If it requires 4 xonolite or something, I can sell that on the GTN instead for a few thousand credits.

Edited February 8, 2012 by thewatcheruatu

[Amiracle]

EVERY level 21 implants was super easy to go from blue to purple1. Not super easy to go from purple1 to purple2 but why in the world should it be? Are purple2's necessary for survival and are they not available from anybody else in the galaxy?

 

And who in the world told you that crafting was supposed to go along at exactly the same rate as you level? One, crafting is not necessarily about crafting for yourself. That's called interdependency. Two, people level at vastly different rates. Which person's leveling is it you think it's supposed to follow?

 

If you want the schems to be super-easy to get then just put them for sale on the trainer along with the greens and be done with it.

 

Ah, you opinion is based on low level items.

 

Please post a pic of all those high level schematics you been able to crit.

 

I have been crafting and re-engineering for the last 3 days and have one lvl49 purple schematic for my efforts and 0 lvl 50 purple schematics.

 

And now that Bio has said it is not working as intended I will cease to re-engineer and just stockpile mats till it is working as intended.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Amiracle

[Larkie]

Ah, you are basing your opinion on low level items.

 

Please post a pic of all those high level schematics you been able to crit.

 

I have been crafting and re-engineering for the last 3 days and have one lvl49 purple schematic for my efforts and 0 lvl 50 purple schematics.

 

Did you not see what post I replied to? It was a post discussing level 21's. I didn't crit most of those in the last 3 days, I've had them for ages. The only level 21's I crit recently for a schem I didn't have before and yes it was just as easy as it was before whatever magical patch you all are referring to.

 

Plenty of people have been posting about getting high-level schems recently and I've seen it from my own in-game experience. Stop ignoring what you don't want to believe. Lastly, what in the world makes you think that high level items are supposed to crit as easily as low-levels?

[Amiracle]

Did you not see what post I replied to? It was a post discussing level 21's. I didn't crit most of those in the last 3 days, I've had them for ages. The only level 21's I crit recently for a schem I didn't have before and yes it was just as easy as it was before whatever magical patch you all are referring to.

 

Plenty of people have been posting about getting high-level schems recently and I've seen it from my own in-game experience. Stop ignoring what you don't want to believe. Lastly, what in the world makes you think that high level items are supposed to crit as easily as low-levels?

 

Plenty of people have been posting about getting high-level schems

 

Show me all these posts.

 

And it seems you are the one ignoring the fact that Bio has said it isn`t working as intended.

 

Its apparent that you are the type of person to believe what they want to. I find it funny that you think the only reason why Bio is making the change is because people complained.

 

I guess it there was so many complaints it could not mean that there was something wrong.

 

I guess Bio is spending money for no return other then to stop qq on forums.

 

People like you make me laugh.

[Mavnas]

Did you not see what post I replied to? It was a post discussing level 21's. I didn't crit most of those in the last 3 days, I've had them for ages. The only level 21's I crit recently for a schem I didn't have before and yes it was just as easy as it was before whatever magical patch you all are referring to.

 

Plenty of people have been posting about getting high-level schems recently and I've seen it from my own in-game experience. Stop ignoring what you don't want to believe. Lastly, what in the world makes you think that high level items are supposed to crit as easily as low-levels?

 

RE chances for 22s are totally different than for lower items. When levelling my Armstech the other day, I made 4 barrels and learned 3 blue schematics. On my artificer trying to learn level 49 enhancements, I count myself lucky if one in 10 leads to a discovery.

 

Even then there's no point in making them to sell since I can get just as much money and faster just selling gems.

 

The system is broken if it's built to ensure a monopoly by setting high barriers to entry to the market, but then that monopoly proves to be unprofitable.

[Arrys]

RNG is random - to the OP, you just have horridly bad luck. Just last night I was doing Artifice crafting on an alt and RE'd a blue schematic after two RE's of the green version of that particular item.

 

It's the very discrepancy that's maddening. As a cybertech I spent my materials levelling 42-46(A playtime day a level being my average) with companions constantly gathering mats and didn't get 1 single level 43 earpiece to go from green to blue.

 

So I get by the trainer and grab the level 47 earpiece pattern make 2 within my batch of level 43 earpieces across my companions. It not only goes blue but I get the one I want (power crit surge) while the whole batch of 43's again doesn't. But it's always the negative dry stretch one remembers not the times it happens easy.

 

I personally would swear the chance on armor is better than Mods and earpieces seems generally to take around the same as getting Mods to improve. But thats most likely my RND luck.