TheBigUnit Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 ...or healing reduction abilities need to be raised to 40 or 50%. If the other team has 2 or more healers who have any clue what they're doing, it's nigh impossible to take anyone down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SourD Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Or you suck and can't pick out the healers to attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I agree that healing is a bit too much but people have not clue who are healers in most of the WZ's I play and when you actually focus one they freak out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogmar Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It's funny how a lot of (bad) players think the -30% is actually too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signahead Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 ...or healing reduction abilities need to be raised to 40 or 50%. If the other team has 2 or more healers who have any clue what they're doing, it's nigh impossible to take anyone down. I see this claim a lot, but it doesn't really match my own experience in PvP. Can you explain a bit more, and maybe describe a situation where 2 healers kept an entire team alive against strong opposition? I'd be especially interested to hear what you did and how those healers overcame it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlybox Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Or you suck and can't pick out the healers to attack? Guard + Healer + Healer is hilarious. You can't kill them. Healer + Healer is bad enough. I have another healer I spent a good portion of Rift with, so we already developed a strong rapport with each other. We call out for cleanses on each other and inform the other when we're being DPS trained or CC trained and need either CC peels or focus heals. Even without Guard it's pretty gross. The one balancing factor is the nature of the objectives in these Warfronts. With only a 4 person queue, you're trading alot of premade/BM-level killing potential for annoyingly high levels of survivability and hoping for geared pug DPS. It gives a significant advantage in Huttball and Defense side of Void Star. But it's almost equally as disadvantaged as Civil War and Attack side of Void Star. In short, premade vs. premade, Guard almost counts as one healer (the almost is quantified by a CC lockdown on the single healer, something that is absolutely negligible with crossheals). Running 2 heals is a large waste. Edited February 1, 2012 by Puzzlybox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygranir Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Wait.... 2 healers shouldn't be able to keep people alive? Why would we even have healers then? If you have 3 guys beating on 1 tank, with 2 healers.... you are gonna need more players beating on that tank. He is DESIGNED to take your hits while healers are SUPPOSED to keep him alive. Teamwork is a wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnsTwoThree Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I haven't seen healers be a huge impact on the tide of a game where both teams have quality players. The ones that are usually complaining are the ones who don't know how to handle healers or are the only ones on their team that are focusing healers down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlybox Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Another point I'd like to make is the status quo of pug play. It's relevant but largely tangential to the OP's major gripe. This is something that happened alot in Rift. Rift had a marking system that didn't deal in symbols but dealt with numbers from 1-8. Bad players who thought that they were actually competent would scream for the Raid Lead to mark all the healers. You would inadvertently have all the healers marked, yes. But the DPS would be just as split as if they weren't marked to begin with. Go ahead and mark all the healers as fire, gun, lightsaber, shield, and lightning. You might feel like you are being pro-active and exhibiting smart play, but you aren't actually doing anything that much better. Atleast from a pug perspective. I've always advocated that there be improvements in the UI to level the playing field for pug play that could substitute the level of coordination and ease of information relay that is present in premade play. Whether it's a better and more fluid marking/raid lead system, in-game vo-ip with mute functionality, etc. The Resolve bar (as quirky as it is), does help pug life substantially. I'm sure they will add more as time goes on. People may complain that this lowers the skill ceiling, but it really doesn't do anything but level the playing field against premades (who have these types of advantages by default). 1) Auto-mark a team's OWN healers that cannot be seen by the other team. This allows pug DPS to be aware of their positioning in respect to their heals (preventing LoS issues). It also allows Tanks know who they should be guarding. 2) More flexible and functional Raid Leader system. Designate it to the highest Valor ranked player that loads in. Automatically default to the highest ranked player that is part of a 3-4 man queue that loads in. Allow votedemote and votepromote functionality for those AFK leaders or tunnel vision DPS leaders who don't bother reading ops chat. Automatically propagate raid assist to the subsequent 2-3 highest valor ranked players. 3) Allow a personal marking system that is purely client based to the individual user. This allows a player to set his own marks that are distinctly different and independent of the raid-based marks. This allows pug based players the ability to mark healers for themselves if the Raid Leader refuses to do it. 4) Change the symbol system to a number system. Set up an automatic raid warning notification when someone marked 1 goes down, so pug DPS can know to focus 2, and 3, and so on. This allows a priority system instead of random symbols where pug DPS might be more inclined to split DPS on healers. 5) Add functionality in the key bindings bar to keybind an ability to hit a hotkey to mark 1, 2, 3. Edited February 1, 2012 by Puzzlybox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I agree that healing is a bit too much but people have not clue who are healers in most of the WZ's I play and when you actually focus one they freak out. By themselves ya I agree, but if there are 3-4 healers on one side then ya forget about trying to focus fire them down, not gonna happen, not in a pug, not even in a 4 man premade / pug, the other healers will just spam all day long and nobody dies... We played a game against a team that had 5 healers and 3 dps'ers and everyone on there side had min of 48+ kills, our side only had 1 person with 5 kills everyone else was either 0 or 2-3.... didn't help we only had one healer so they just targeted him and he went down fast each time... one point we had 5 people focus fire on one of there healers and we couldn't get him below 50% before they would just heal him back up to 100%, was a joke The match making system should make sure each side has the same amount of healers... otherwise it's completely unbalances the game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathla Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Really!?! Anytime I stick my neck out to heal the other team jumps on me like I'm a fresh tray of orange chicken at the all you can eat buffet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlybox Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The match making system should make sure each side has the same amount of healers... otherwise it's completely unbalances the game.. There are significant disadvantages to healer-based premades on certain maps and certain phases of maps (Attack vs. Defense on Voidstar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 We won a Huttball and we had no healers at all. Random is random. You get what get and you don't throw a fit. I hope down the road they allow 8 man groups or two 4 man groups to go against other premades and let the pugs fight other pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secured Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 healing needs to be buffed! guard needs to be toned done (extremely!) the abilitys to shut down healers are nearly endless. they should'nt be able to cast one single skill if you dont play like a noob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuvox Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 ...or healing reduction abilities need to be raised to 40 or 50%. If the other team has 2 or more healers who have any clue what they're doing, it's nigh impossible to take anyone down. Do you have any idea how little damage full spec'd Sage healers do compared to other classes? If you tone down their healing abilities, what do they have left? Yes, they will have their cc's but medals aren't won based on those. As has been mentioned, good PVPers work together to take out healers first. I just played a huttball match where the opposing team had 3 healers. We won easily be taking out the healers and/or preventing them from healing others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opmz Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 First they want damage nerfed... Damage gets nerfed... Now the Healing is too strong... Healing gets nerfed.... Now the damage needs nerfed again... The Circular forum logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Guard + Healer + Healer is hilarious. You can't kill them. Healer + Healer is bad enough. I have another healer I spent a good portion of Rift with, so we already developed a strong rapport with each other. We call out for cleanses on each other and inform the other when we're being DPS trained or CC trained and need either CC peels or focus heals. Even without Guard it's pretty gross. The one balancing factor is the nature of the objectives in these Warfronts. With only a 4 person queue, you're trading alot of premade/BM-level killing potential for annoyingly high levels of survivability and hoping for geared pug DPS. It gives a significant advantage in Huttball and Defense side of Void Star. But it's almost equally as disadvantaged as Civil War and Attack side of Void Star. In short, premade vs. premade, Guard almost counts as one healer (the almost is quantified by a CC lockdown on the single healer, something that is absolutely negligible with crossheals). Running 2 heals is a large waste. Ever heard the term "focus the healer"? guard cuts dmg by 50% and that damage goes to the guarder, if you focus the healer you are doing much more damage and hurting both the guard and the healer. I wouldn't say nerfs are needed, it looks more like a lack of team play. To defeat people who are playing as a team, as intended, you will also need to play as a team and with some semblance of intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Your whole team can't manage to interrupt & kill 2 healers? If this is the case then it's not the healers which are at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlybox Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Ever heard the term "focus the healer"? guard cuts dmg by 50% and that damage goes to the guarder, if you focus the healer you are doing much more damage and hurting both the guard and the healer. I wouldn't say nerfs are needed, it looks more like a lack of team play. To defeat people who are playing as a team, as intended, you will also need to play as a team and with some semblance of intelligence. I'm a PvP healer, and pretty well-regarded on my server. I'm pretty familiar with the concept of being focused. And I'm fairly convinced you read the first sentence of my post you quoted and hit Reply to Quote as fast as you possibly could, foaming at the mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I'm a PvP healer, and pretty well-regarded on my server. I'm pretty familiar with the concept of being focused. And I'm fairly convinced you read the first sentence of my post you quoted and hit Reply to Quote as fast as you possibly could, foaming at the mouth. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself dude. My point stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorra-Syn Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Its funny to hear people that do NOT think healing in this game is OP.. The OP healing in this game is so blatant, that it only makes these people look stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Its funny to hear people that do NOT think healing in this game is OP.. The OP healing in this game is so blatant, that it only makes these people look stupid. Not really, its the team play that people can't wrap their heads around. If you can't figure out that you can't solo a tank and a healer then thats your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlybox Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Whatever makes you feel good about yourself dude. My point stands. It really doesn't. Just like you can argue that teamwork can kill cross-healers. Teamwork between those healers can easily make fools out of a train of DPS on them. Guard is going to come up as an issue in the future. There is a big swing between a healer that is guarded and a healer that isn't. It's going to be tough to balance for. The issue will probably become more visibly prominent and threads will crop up in rated play and if Arenas comes out. Edited February 1, 2012 by Puzzlybox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It really doesn't. Just like you can argue that teamwork can kill cross-healers. Teamwork between those healers can easily make fools out of a train of DPS on them. Ok then, whatever you say. I will continue to call out to my team to focus the guys that need killing first and you can continue saying that doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadenp Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) As a healer. only find myself OP-ed only again groups of alone wolf DPS crazed no situational awareness PUGs. Even with a tank and another healer, any good group or a few group people will know who to cc me, interrupt me, stun me and kill me fast. So I do not see the problem of healers being OPed. Healers are only OPed if 1. Your team cannot focus fire 2. Your team DPS sucks as people need to l2p their class better 3. Your team ignore the healer 4. The enemy healer and team knows when to run and when to fight And most matches I play, there will be roaming death squads of merc and sorc partners that kill healers ASAP by denying us our heals and then burst dmg killing us. So no, Healers are not OPed. Crying healers are OPed is like crying a Assassin does too much damage while totally ignoring that said Assassin while he/she dps you for fun. Edited February 1, 2012 by gadenp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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