Monoth Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Age of Conan went skill over gear until there was so much QQ'ing about the armor not giving enough of a bonus stat wise that it wasint worth getting... I think there was only like 2% between T1 and T2 and another 2% between T2 and T3 So yeah what are you going to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crago_Flynn Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I don't understand why people who want purely skill-based PvP don't just go play Street Fighter. That's essentially what you're asking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bekkrah Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Real PvP'ers play RTS's, FPS's, fighters Real PvP'ers do not play MMO's, lol LOL, you can believe that if you want to. Too each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secured Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 .People have been wanting a PvP game that was based on their ability, as opposed to what they wear, for years. This is not it. PvP'ers (unless you live with Mom) have been looking for this for years. SWTOR is not it. it's Guild Wars and it has been for years. You can make a max level and max geared character (anyone you like) with a few mouseclicks. you cant pve with it and its armor wont look as shiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakimou Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 People use "progression" as an excuse for their scrubbery. I hope GW2 can sort out who is who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absit Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Age of Conan went skill over gear until there was so much QQ'ing about the armor not giving enough of a bonus stat wise that it wasint worth getting... I think there was only like 2% between T1 and T2 and another 2% between T2 and T3 So yeah what are you going to do... What really killed AoC was the fact that melee was so much harder to play than ranged, but didn't do any more damage. The combo system is the best idea anyone's ever come up with, but why oh why didn't they implement it for all classes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bekkrah Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Age of Conan went skill over gear until there was so much QQ'ing about the armor not giving enough of a bonus stat wise that it wasint worth getting... I think there was only like 2% between T1 and T2 and another 2% between T2 and T3 So yeah what are you going to do... Agreed. The "carebears" ruined the game for everyone else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) LOL, you can believe that if you want to. Too each his own. Can I get a list of all the MMO's that are Major E-Sports today? That was the list There are none. Edited February 1, 2012 by CupieFoxtail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) .People have been wanting a PvP game that was based on their ability, as opposed to what they wear, for years. This is not it. PvP'ers (unless you live with Mom) have been looking for this for years. SWTOR is not it. Gear system is alright, and quite satisfying in fact for experienced PvPers. If you want PvP minus any expertise end-game gear then the 10-49 Warzones are where you will find satisfaction since the stats are all boosted to a hypothetical level. Edited February 1, 2012 by Ewgal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlybox Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) .People have been wanting a PvP game that was based on their ability, as opposed to what they wear, for years. This is not it. PvP'ers (unless you live with Mom) have been looking for this for years. SWTOR is not it. This argument is only half-true. When gear is par at the high-end, skill and coordination play a much, much larger role. The only issue I have with games that follow this model is you either have to get curbstomped, carried, or pugroll with a premade for a significant amount of time to get to that point. It severely bottlenecks fresh blood into a game's PvP community and there's burnout at both ends of the spectrum. Fresh 50s can't stomach the grind as it continually gets longer as gearflation progresses over the patches, and max-geared 50s get bored as all hell from end-less mindless pugstomping and lack of meaningful competition. We'll see how things turn out when Rated games come in. Edited February 1, 2012 by Puzzlybox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bekkrah Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) What really killed AoC was the fact that melee was so much harder to play than ranged, but didn't do any more damage. The combo system is the best idea anyone's ever come up with, but why oh why didn't they implement it for all classes? The melee system was definitely more challenging than the range was but I believe it was the carebears who QQ'd for Funcom to dumb the game down and make it gear based. They simply couldn't handle losing a PvP bout with another player who was less geared than them. AoC's "melee" combat system was the most skill based and fun system that I have ever experienced. Edited February 1, 2012 by BeKure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SourD Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Gear system is alright, and quite satisfying in fact for experienced PvPers. If you want PvP minus any expertise end-game gear then the 10-49 Warzones are where you will find satisfaction since the stats are all boosted to a hypothetical level. Except you can get expertise at certain levels. And why would people care to keep going if once they hit 50 they needed to start over again and start a new online identity? Gear is a crutch for the incompetent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 thats not true.. Guild Wars made it and GW2 is going for it as well.. its called compettetive PvP. All have same gear, access to same skills. If you want to be different, you change your look, but stats remain.. thats it.. GW2 will never come close to the amount of people that bought SWTOR. It is because MMOs without gear progression doesn't appeal to a lot of MMO pvpers and pvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fardarter Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 GW2 pvp will be all toons are max and they all have the same gear if I read it correctly, you will choose your abilities before battles and after that its all skill. That is "warzone" type pvp not sure about open world. Swtor needs to have "battlegroups" to increase the player pool. By having more players you can start to match premades, and sort people by gear level. I am sure they have internal systems that can determine a characters gear level. This, at least would give geared people more challenge and new 50s wouldnt get quite so steamrolled. Anyway, my biggest complaint about SWTOR is that beside dialogue and cut-scenes everything else seems to be just "good enough". Not a lot of polish and many systems are just poorly thought out. Yes you can say they are poorly thought out when people were pointing it out a year ago in beta. Maybe its just arrogant. Either way I don't think the game is growing right now, at least not a quickly as it could be. We'll see what if anything BW does to address this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 AoC's "melee" combat system was the most skill based system that I have ever experienced. in an mmo E-Sports are much more skill-based Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Gear is a crutch for the incompetent. To follow that line of reasoning, classes differences are a crutch for the incompetent. Play Halo Edited February 1, 2012 by CupieFoxtail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragiel Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 GW2 will never come close to the amount of people that bought SWTOR. It is because MMOs without gear progression doesn't appeal to a lot of MMO pvpers and pvers. probably true.. even they sold over 7mil copies with first game, they will probably never rach numbers like swtor or wow. But well.. who care, as long as im having fun - i dont really care if the game im playing is the most popular or crap based on all others players.. Im doing my decisions what is fun to play for me.. and im definitelly minority PvPer who want compettetive enviroment / no gear progression / just skill based and strategy game.. - thats not swtor.. even close to it.. warhammer after 3 years.. is far better game for pvp.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bekkrah Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 GW2 will never come close to the amount of people that bought SWTOR. It is because MMOs without gear progression doesn't appeal to a lot of MMO pvpers and pvers. Unfortunately there is some truth behind this. Most MMO gamers want and/or need a system in which the gear (not skill) will be the deciding factor in PvP. Hopefully soon the industry will start heading the other direction....the skill based direction. Guild Wars 2 and Tera Online are off to a good start imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Hopefully soon the industry will start heading the other direction....the skill based direction. Guild Wars 2 and Tera Online are off to a good start imo. MMO's are progression based. You get people to keep paying a subscription by having them advance their characters through various time sinks. Here is a list of games that you do not pay a subscription fee for, do not have overarching character progression, and have multiplayer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_sports#Major_electronic_sports_games Subscription MMO is not the genre you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illwill- Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Real PvP'ers play RTS's, FPS's, fighters Real PvP'ers do not play MMO's, lol I know of several "real" PvP'ers that play mmos. "Fighters", just going to lol on that one. RTS is as boring as...Ilum. FPS...yeah, I've won a couple of world tournaments etc, but that doesn't mean I can't play mmos as well. Besides, FPS can get boring after a while as well...taking a break never hurts. That said, Planetside 2 is otw, and if we pray to the almight Lord of the pink butterflies, SOE won't mess it up. I never played Planetside, but the idea is really quite interesting to me. And massive PvP-fights without lag/low fps sounds cool...not like Swtor where 8vs8 is a lagfest with ability lag and low fps and bugs etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bekkrah Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 probably true.. even they sold over 7mil copies with first game, they will probably never rach numbers like swtor or wow. But well.. who care, as long as im having fun - i dont really care if the game im playing is the most popular or crap based on all others players.. Im doing my decisions what is fun to play for me.. and im definitelly minority PvPer who want compettetive enviroment / no gear progression / just skill based and strategy game.. - thats not swtor.. even close to it.. warhammer after 3 years.. is far better game for pvp.. I agree. It kills me when people try to factor in whether a certain game has sold a certain amount of copies or not. Just because a game can put up big box sales does not make it a quality game. Heck, Vanilla Ice sold millions of records in the 90's but it is obvious that he has few legitimate talents. Quantity does not equal quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You're a big girl , aren't you? Why bother to make a thread and then pidder out responses like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SourD Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Why bother to make a thread and then pidder out responses like this? So, that is a "yes". Got ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 So, that is a "yes". Got ya So if you stopped defending your point, I guess that means that you have given up and accepted defeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutee Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I agree. It kills me when people try to factor in whether a certain game has sold a certain amount of copies or not. Just because a game can put up big box sales does not make it a quality game. Heck, Vanilla Ice sold millions of records in the 90's but it is obvious that he has few legitimate talents. Quantity does not equal quality. What defines quality when it comes to games? I mean how good a game is is mostly down to peoples personal opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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