ImperialSun Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I never said that Merc is OP but I admit that TM is too good, so it should be, for example, 5 sec cooldown. And no, for that 8 sec I was also dealing damage, yet not as fast and effective as he could with only one ability. It is funny how mercs are trying to pretend that TM spam is just fine, guess they are too scared that it would show their lack of skill.. So we have a lack of skill for playing the class exactly as it is designed, playing it in a manner that we are forced to in order to make the most of the class, actually to make it viable at all? Interesting point of view... By that rationale any Smuggler or IA that uses their cover mechanic is also lacking in skill? In fact any class that uses its core mechanic as it was designed simply lacks skill amiright? Driz Edited February 1, 2012 by ImperialSun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindexus Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I am fascinated that this thread has hit 18 pages so far and is still going. TM/GR requires you being hit by it over and over again to make it more effective. If you let someone wail on you repeatedly, then I'm sorry, you deserve to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RycheMykola Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I never said that Merc is OP but I admit that TM is too good, so it should be, for example, 5 sec cooldown. And no, for that 8 sec I was also dealing damage, yet not as fast and effective as he could with only one ability. It is funny how mercs are trying to pretend that TM spam is just fine, guess they are too scared that it would show their lack of skill.. If there's a 5 second CD, then the length of the debuff and buff it puts on the target and yourself will need to be increased. Remove the CD for unload then too. And then what happens when you still get killed? Let me guess, nerf Rapid Shots? Edited February 1, 2012 by RycheMykola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Coffee Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yes, let's nerf Tracer Missle!! Wait..... that's the main part of their rotation. If you nerf Tracer Missle, then you destroy the Arsenal spec. There are better ways to handle situations instead of calling for nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I am fascinated that this thread has hit 18 pages so far and is still going. TM/GR requires you being hit by it over and over again to make it more effective. If you let someone wail on you repeatedly, then I'm sorry, you deserve to die. Not only this ^^ But whilst many of you focus on the now legendary one shot killing prowess of TM spam you conveniently forget that this is whilst we are in a particularly glass feeling turret mode. In return for that dps I have next to no mobility, I have no CC apart from a couple of knockbacks, if a melee closes me down I have no way of getting away...I get wailed on and I go down...simples.... So big dps...zero mobility...very little survivability once you get closed down...minimal CC....sounds perfectly balanced to me.... Driz Edited February 1, 2012 by ImperialSun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexanderCarrick Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 So we have a lack of skill for playing the class exactly as it is designed, playing it in a manner that we are forced to in order to make the most of the class, actually to make it viable at all? Interesting point of view... By that rationale any Smuggler or IA that uses their cover mechanic is also lacking in skill? In fact any class that uses its core mechanic as it was designed simply lacks skill amiright? Driz Maybe you are right, maybe just the mechanic suck since it is all about one skill, that players use all the time. In that case it needs some changes anyway, so at least stop saying that it is all fine... (that is not personally to you, but to all other mercs holding that statement) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Sidac- Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) people who complain about Tracer Missle / Grave round spammers need to realize that they have this catagory of abilities called crowd controls and interrupts. Use them wisely, dont throw everything at once like 99% of you people do! I have yet to run into any trouble that you people scream about. then again, I have a brain Edited February 1, 2012 by -Sidac- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexanderCarrick Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If there's a 5 second CD, then the length of the debuff and buff it puts on the target and yourself will need to be increased. Remove the CD for unload then too. And then what happens when you still get killed? Let me guess, nerf Rapid Shots? Not really, I can face defeat (I am not a pro after all) but not when it is only because of one ability being repeated all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RycheMykola Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Not really, I can face defeat (I am not a pro after all) but not when it is only because of one ability being repeated all the time. When I was Merc Specced (healing specced now), i faced one of the bads spamming TM. I used ALL my other abilities too, I beat him and I was still at 75% health. This is like saying Snipe is OP for Snipers, or Lightning Strike is OP for SI's............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorinHyvek Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Just a comment on Tracer Missile going around Corners; This means you weren't fast enough breaking LoS. Unless I'm very much mistaken, once the missile has been fired, it will find you come hell or high water (Just like, you know, every other ranged attack. Missiles are just slower so the curve on them is more noticeable. But if you look closesly, you can even see your blaster bolts curving to hit their targets). You have to break Line of Sight before the missile gets fired. Edited February 1, 2012 by KorinHyvek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Not only this ^^ But whilst many of you focus on the now legendary one shot killing prowess of TM spam you conveniently forget that this is whilst we are in a particularly glass feeling turret mode. In return for that dps I have next to no mobility, I have no CC apart from a couple of knockbacks, if a melee closes me down I have no way of getting away...I get wailed on and I go down...simples.... So big dps...zero mobility...very little survivability once you get closed down...minimal CC....sounds perfectly balanced to me.... Driz Big DPS is one thing.. but there's a point where it gets to be a little bit much. Sniper/Gunslinger do big DPS in cover and it doesn't match up to a well played merc. Hell, the merc's defensive cooldowns are better, so they're certainly not lacking in survivability. Not to mention the zero mobility doesn't matter much when you can put out enough where you don't need it unless a whole group comes after you. Also are you forgetting Electro Dart for part of your CC? This is like saying Snipe is OP for Snipers, or Lightning Strike is OP for SI's............ Snipe and Lightning Strike don't have anywhere near the output of TM, so no, its not the same. Edited February 1, 2012 by Kuari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salamanderx Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I can see it being a problem for melee types, but the rest should have no problem with a tracer noob. Someone standing there spamming tracers is an easy choice for priority attack. They arent moving anywhere and doing high damage and easy to kill... so why isnt your team killing them. To me when they assume the position I put on my steel toes and give them a nice kick! Its like a neon sign saying "kill me!" And I even play a merc, was specced tracer but its so boring I had to change to pyro and notice little difference in my damage output, I just have to spread it around more. And yea the tracer missle following you is because they successfully fired it off while you were in LOS, it has to travel to you and will follow you anywhere at that point, basically a delayed effect. Edited February 1, 2012 by salamanderx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldManRelic Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Learn to interrupt Bioware intended you to use your skills against human players instead of pretending like you're grinding NPC mobs. You're aware not all classes have a 30m interupt. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) You're aware not all classes have a 30m interupt. Right? Even if that wasn't the case, just because you can interrupt it doesn't make it all that much less overkill. You can't say something is balanced just because you can interrupt it. Edited February 1, 2012 by Kuari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well, there's certainly a new "flavor of the week" that I've discovered lately: Mercs that are hybrid into arsenal and healer. Yeah, its burst damage is a great deal lower than a traditional arsenal specced merc, but in warzones they'll still end up dealing at least 200k+ damage and healing. Also talk about tough to kill.... wow. Tried to 1v1 one of them with my madness sorc (which can usually excel at popping arsenal mercs 1v1) and didn't work out to well for me. If they're spamming tracer on you and you interrupt it, they'll use their cooldown attacks unless they're low in health, in which case they just heal while tracer is locked out and if you go for interrupting their heals, well then you're just gunna' get tracer spammed to death. Very tough hybrid class to successfully defeat in a 1v1 for a sorc. Worst of all, these guys do their best to avoid getting singled out and forced into a 1v1 since they're at their best when paired with any other long-range classes - like all mercs - (they tend to go for a 5-stack of tracers on everyone and let their group-mates deal the retarded damage whille they keep their groupmates healed - and if they don't have someone to heal, then they'll just keep spamming tracer). Very clever hybrid, I must admit. As to whether or not tracer NEEDS a change, this should prove to even the pure arsenal specced mercs out there that it's at least a tad bit silly and capable of being abused even without large skill tree investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ireniicus Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I am noticing alot of spamming of this skill and I think it would be good if thwe mechanics deterred spamming the same skill over and over ...same for all classes...but i have noticed that one in particular...oh and force lightning ofc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well, there's certainly a new "flavor of the week" that I've discovered lately: Mercs that are hybrid into arsenal and healer. Yeah, its burst damage is a great deal lower than a traditional arsenal specced merc, but in warzones they'll still end up dealing at least 200k+ damage and healing. Also talk about tough to kill.... wow. Tried to 1v1 one of them with my madness sorc (which can usually excel at popping arsenal mercs 1v1) and didn't work out to well for me. If they're spamming tracer on you and you interrupt it, they'll use their cooldown attacks unless they're low in health, in which case they just heal while tracer is locked out and if you go for interrupting their heals, well then you're just gunna' get tracer spammed to death. Very tough hybrid class to successfully defeat in a 1v1 for a sorc. Worst of all, these guys do their best to avoid getting singled out and forced into a 1v1 since they're at their best when paired with any other long-range classes - like all mercs - (they tend to go for a 5-stack of tracers on everyone and let their group-mates deal the retarded damage whille they keep their groupmates healed - and if they don't have someone to heal, then they'll just keep spamming tracer). Very clever hybrid, I must admit. As to whether or not tracer NEEDS a change, this should prove to even the pure arsenal specced mercs out there that it's at least a tad bit silly and capable of being abused even without large skill tree investment. if your madness shouldnt you just los and spam dots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I am noticing alot of spamming of this skill and I think it would be good if thwe mechanics deterred spamming the same skill over and over ...same for all classes...but i have noticed that one in particular...oh and force lightning ofc would probably be to much work for them, the entire skill tree is built around tracer missile, clearly they wanted arsenal merc's to do this, nerfing tracer would be admitting that all their testers and design team is completely retarded Edited February 1, 2012 by LanceUpercutt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Oh, and I'm not just talking about mercs, commandos too. Seen quite a few of them doing the same exact things mercs do. I feel sorry for mercs getting soloed out for complaints, but I suppose it's due to the fact that most servers are heavily Imperial and at least 75% of warzone queues end up being imperial vs. imperial hutt-ball unless you're on a perfect queue rotation with the pubs (whom usually stop queueing if they've lost 3 warzones in a row). My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilCanuck Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well, there's certainly a new "flavor of the week" that I've discovered lately: Mercs that are hybrid into arsenal and healer. Yeah, its burst damage is a great deal lower than a traditional arsenal specced merc, but in warzones they'll still end up dealing at least 200k+ damage and healing. Also talk about tough to kill.... wow. Tried to 1v1 one of them with my madness sorc (which can usually excel at popping arsenal mercs 1v1) and didn't work out to well for me. If they're spamming tracer on you and you interrupt it, they'll use their cooldown attacks unless they're low in health, in which case they just heal while tracer is locked out and if you go for interrupting their heals, well then you're just gunna' get tracer spammed to death. Very tough hybrid class to successfully defeat in a 1v1 for a sorc. Worst of all, these guys do their best to avoid getting singled out and forced into a 1v1 since they're at their best when paired with any other long-range classes - like all mercs - (they tend to go for a 5-stack of tracers on everyone and let their group-mates deal the retarded damage whille they keep their groupmates healed - and if they don't have someone to heal, then they'll just keep spamming tracer). Very clever hybrid, I must admit. As to whether or not tracer NEEDS a change, this should prove to even the pure arsenal specced mercs out there that it's at least a tad bit silly and capable of being abused even without large skill tree investment. If one TM applied the full buff debuff effect, I'd never fire more than one at a time. It simply does not deal enough damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izini Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Shhh... don't tell anyone that their other damage abilities do more dps. People are prob blaming all of their dps on the tracer/grav round because thats all they mostly see. The 2 instant attacks and full auto/unload do more dps, but you have to do a few tracer/gravs to get more damage out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Shhh... don't tell anyone that their other damage abilities do more dps. People are prob blaming all of their dps on the tracer/grav round because thats all they mostly see. The 2 instant attacks and full auto/unload do more dps, but you have to do a few tracer/gravs to get more damage out of them. The ones that actually make an effort do indeed get a lot more out of those abilities with tracer/grav stacks, there's no arguing that. When you can do more consistent burst with one ability then any other ranged can with multiple, then things start getting shaky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choatley Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Nothing says immature like the phrase, "Learn to play noobs." There are ways to voice your opinions without sounding like a tool. You don't always need to sound childish while disagreeing! I would agree that this doesn't need nerfing. There are ways to combat the problems described here. Interrupts, crowd control, and line of sight are always useful skills in PVP combat. If you're not using them, you need to adjust to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 if your madness shouldnt you just los and spam dots? 2 DoT's (Crushing Darkness + Affliction) without an active Deathmark and "Wrath-procced" Crushing Darkness isn't much damage. Even if I were to put all 3 DoT's on with an Active Death Mark, it'll usually only end up dealing about half health if they were hitting hard and the target doesn't heal themself (unless it's a poorly geared player) and let's be honest: if I'm LoS'ing one of these hybrid mercs, he's obviously going to heal. So... what was your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machazareel Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The ones that actually make an effort do indeed get a lot more out of those abilities with tracer/grav stacks, there's no arguing that. When you can do more consistent burst with one ability then any other ranged can with multiple, then things start getting shaky Tracer isn't burst. It's mediocre sustained dps. HSM and Railshot coupled with Tracer is burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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