Nerf tracer missle now

[ugig]

OH NO! You're going to have to restart your activation timer! (gasp) Seriously, though, all a merc has to do is the uppercut knockback + slow and that buys them enough time to get at least one tracer off on a melee. Charge is a gap-closer with very limited interrupt so you shouldn't consider it a disrupt. Also, about 90% of the time when you charge a target and finish animating, despite the fact that the target appears to be right next to you, you can't use any melee attacks as it will say out of range until your target "blinks" to another location just outside of melee.

 

This proves you know absolutly nothing about the class your complaining about and make the rest of anything you say suspect. The uppercut knockback has no slow on it and only barely knocks you back out of melee range, 5m is all. jet boost is the aoe knockback with a 60% slow on it, 30 second CD, 20 if tallented.

[voidsurvivor]

I fully support nerfing tracer missile spammers. All ranged classes with their auto facing mechanic deserve it anyway.

[Zarthorn]

I think the sorcs/sages and commandos/mercs could do with watching the first 3 minutes of this old gem, it highly applies to them xD

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caYYYQfojkQ&feature=related

[FrevikThul]

OH NO! You're going to have to restart your activation timer! (gasp) Seriously, though, all a merc has to do is the uppercut knockback + slow and that buys them enough time to get at least one tracer off on a melee. Charge is a gap-closer with very limited interrupt so you shouldn't consider it a disrupt. Also, about 90% of the time when you charge a target and finish animating, despite the fact that the target appears to be right next to you, you can't use any melee attacks as it will say out of range until your target "blinks" to another location just outside of melee.

 

Restarting the activation timer seems to be what this entire conversation is about. It doesn't sound like you'll be happy until you can put another class on a permanent reactivation timer of 4 seconds at a time. It has the same affect as KB, which is to disrupt the action taking place. You reset 1 tracer missile cast, you've effectively added an additional 1 to 1.5 seconds to their dmg out put. As other people have posted, it takes about 8 seconds to do 50% dmg to their target, well, you've just taken it to 9 to 10 seconds. If you do get KB'd after a charge, use your force camofluage or obfuscate and close the distance again, you act like there aren't any tools in a melee's arsenal to combat a TM merc.

 

Charge is a disrupt. If it causes whatever cast bar being used at the time to reset, then it has effectively disrupted the ability. How can you not consider that an interrupt?

 

Full disclosure, I play as a bodyguard and I see warriors pull their charge shenanigans on me all the time, after I KB them. Seems like these players know when to use their abilities.

 

I don't have any comment on your point about melee attacks, haven't played my warriors enough to see that. If it is true, the correct solution would be to fix your charge, not nerf your target's ability. It's not their fault your mechanic is broken.

[BlackBaronUK]

There is a pushback on TM. Most of us choose to spec to reduce it by 75% while climbing the skill tree.

 

Yeah I know, that's probably the issue though. That might be leading to this feeling of helplessness when facing it.

 

The only class I have a problem with tracer missile spam is my levelling Sentinel really. I find I need to use all my possible cast time interrupts (force leap, force kick, force camouflage for them to lose target, force stasis) to bring just one down. Blowing all your cooldowns just against one guy in a Warzone is a bit of a pain when its a team game.

 

I imagine it's different as a geared 50 Sentinel, but it's pretty painful as one who's in the high 30s and still levelling.

 

A 5m minimum range would do wonders. It would still be potent at range, but you would need to position, set yourself up to use it, instead of just stand there spamming it as a Melee swats at you at close range.

[Cheffn]

Replace the less then stellar enhancements in your PvP gear. That's a big source of it.

EDIT: I'd also like to note it was on a different topic then what you're referring to if you'd have followed the quotes. Seriously...

 

From what I've noticed this far all your post say Bh merc are op when he TM spams on someone not shooting back? The simple fact is that TM is not op. Sure you're going to kill ppl, who doesn't? but to say it's obviously op is just ridiculous. Plz tell me WHY you think TM is op? If the BH is engaged in a 1v1 fight every class in the game has more then enough utility to take out a BH. Yes the BH will win on some occasions but that's just because the BH was better in that particular engagement. You also mention that in group fights the BH will just destroy the other team if left unattended. EVERY class will destroy the other team in group fights if left unattended. So again I ask you what do YOU think is so OP about TM that it deserves a nerf?

[MPagano]

Tracer missles can be interrupted.

 

/thread

 

 

Next?

[Zarthorn]

Tracer missles can be interrupted.

 

/thread

 

 

Next?

 

This statement would ring true if WZ's were not full of only Mercs and Sorcs (obvious sign of class imbalance is when there is a high population of that class).

 

Since they are, you know what that means don't you?

[joric]

This statement would ring true if WZ's were not full of only Mercs and Sorcs (obvious sign of class imbalance is when there is a high population of that class).

 

Since they are, you know what that means don't you?

 

Wait I have an answer for that.

 

Maybe because the class is enjoyable to play? I dunno thats just me.

 

Now that the QQers and whiners know they can get their way, makes me worry about my future in this game playing it. If my class gets blown up because crybaby scrubs don't want to raise their game...

[BlackBaronUK]

Wait I have an answer for that.

 

Maybe because the class is enjoyable to play? I dunno thats just me.

 

Now that the QQers and whiners know they can get their way, makes me worry about my future in this game playing it. If my class gets blown up because crybaby scrubs don't want to raise their game...

 

You feel threatened by the tweaking of ONE skill? Then that proves it's overused, surely?

[Kuari]

From what I've noticed this far all your post say Bh merc are op when he TM spams on someone not shooting back?

 

You've obviously haven't read all my posts then. I've flat out mentioned other things and not to mention that has nothing to do with what you just quoted. I was referring to the HP of entry level 50s. Follow the quotes before you type. Yeah, anyone is going to kill against those not fighting back, but you're completely missing the other parts of the point. Even if they do fight back, tracer missile alone is enough to put up a good fight against non-healers. Then you add in their other stuff and it gets ugly.

[Nukor]

I HATE the Missiles.

 

As a scoundrel healer, I am seeing more and more that the 2 OPed Imps classes are working together to gang-kill me/reps.

 

It mostly seems to done as so:

1. Sorc will stun me

2. Multiple Merc Launch Missiles

3. I try to break Stun with my 1 skill to run

4. Sorc stun again - Most life gone when Missiles hit

5. Defense Probe and Try to Heal

6. Get Interrupted and stunned

7. Get Dead and Die

 

To me that is OP-ed.

 

And FYI in huttball I am unable to get them off ledges.

 

Let me get this strait... You think that because a sorc and multiple mercs are able to quickly kill you that TM needs a nerf?

 

Well with that "logic" every single class in the game should be nerfed down to the point they can't damage other players because let's face it... a group of players is ALWAYS going to quickly kill a single target, focus fire cannot be avoided unless damage to other players is removed from the game. Don't think that you're going to be unstoppable against groups of other players, it's never going to happen.

[Buddhalux]

You feel threatened by the tweaking of ONE skill? Then that proves it's overused, surely?

 

It's our primer skill. Check our damn skill tree and look at Arsenal. All our finishers REQUIRE the TM debuffs to either be usable or bring our dps up since we're a dps class that is kind of important.

[Zarthorn]

Wait I have an answer for that.

 

Maybe because the class is enjoyable to play? I dunno thats just me.

 

Now that the QQers and whiners know they can get their way, makes me worry about my future in this game playing it. If my class gets blown up because crybaby scrubs don't want to raise their game...

 

I had no idea smashing your face on a single key was fun (have a commando, I hate playing him because it's boring simplistic stuff that I could sit my dog on my lap, put its paw on the keybind for Grav round and it would score kills)

 

And yes you are making the typical "I'm OP deal with it" response.

 

The only people that are scrubs are those that rolled the easymode class and would sooner defend it in it's broken, boring state than go "Hey you know, this class really isn't fun to play and it's pretty stupid that I have to use one skill over and over because it has more utility than everything else, maybe I should suggest how to balance it which would make it more rewarding to play"

 

But nope, typical FOTM player, typical FOTM post, typical player going to be crying at how Bioware gutted them and they are now unplayable come the eventual nerf.

 

You know a bit like a load of Ops/Scoundrels did yesterday whereas those of us that actually enjoy the class saw the nerf as a step forward and continue to enjoy the class.

[MPagano]

This statement would ring true if WZ's were not full of only Mercs and Sorcs (obvious sign of class imbalance is when there is a high population of that class).

 

Since they are, you know what that means don't you?

 

No I don't. I'd like you to finish the thought so I don't bury you in logic based on assumptions.

 

What does the type of classes in the WZ have to do with the fact that an ability can be interrupted? Please, say anything.

[Nukor]

You feel threatened by the tweaking of ONE skill? Then that proves it's overused, surely?

 

I completely agree it's overused, but understand that the skill tree is built on that one skill.

 

BHs only start with multiple TMs because they need the stacks. Further TM shots are only used to refresh the stacks and hopefully reduce the cooldown on Unload, which is by FAR more powerful than TM shots.

 

I'm not opposed to the skill getting tweaked, I'd like to see a single TM apply a full 5 stacks and have the length of the stacks doubled. This would also have to come with a cooldown on the skill, but doing so would leave us with 2 abilities that don't have cooldowns which are completely ineffective to use to put out any damage.

 

Next time you're getting "Tracer spammed" try to find out if you're getting hit by more than one player and pay closer attention to the damage that unload is doing to you because that's how we kill you, the TMs are just setup for the skills that actually kill you.

[RedMix]

As a Gunslinger, a Juggernaut and an Assassin, i've found that pretty much the outcome to a tracer missile spam fight is who gets the the jump.

 

My jug and assassin got enough interupts to mess up a merc in no time if im ontop of them before they start spamming, while my Gunslinger can outright kill them if given the 3 seconds to set up burst. However if im caught at range, or they attack me first and get their their button mashing going i'm dead 90% of the time.

 

For my Gunslinger, Take first hit ... 1.5s to enter cover, 1.5s to set up an attack of some sort ... theres 3 hits and a 4th incoming before i've even hit them once and then im usually dead.

[MPagano]

TM crits are pretty high for a move that just sets up the rotation for dps.

[Zarthorn]

No I don't. I'd like you to finish the thought so I don't bury you in logic based on assumptions.

 

What does the type of classes in the WZ have to do with the fact that an ability can be interrupted? Please, say anything.

 

Basically if mercs are stacked, you interupt one, eat tracer off another and another.

 

Same trick is pulled regularly and has been done since the game went live with Sorcs tab+lightning everything that moves.

 

And the problem with this? In a team game, the balanced team should have the advantage not the one that purposely stacked the crap out of one or two classes all with the same or similar builds.

 

This isn't saying "holy trinity" should beat all but when tracer and lightning spam are causing WZ's to be absolutely obnoxious places to be it goes against "fun" and into the realms of "frustration"

 

Now here is where the actual problem lies....if you hear me out.

 

What this team composition would be known as in any other MMO game is a "spike" team, all dps classes using dps skills to "spike" down a target, however a "spike" team is countered by a "turtle" team which is the likes of Tanks and healers making an impervious wall that slowly chip down the spike team one by one.

 

Unlike other MMO's where the spike team theory exists and it's counter exists, there is simply no counter to the spike team in SWTOR, at all.

 

Why?

 

Because of defensive cooldowns, because Sorcs/Mercs can't be simply "chipped" away since they get some base healing skills, because of the utility that Sorcs possesses, because Mercs can get on par mitigation with most tanks and not sacrifice damage for it.

 

Quite simply put, the utility, survivability and damage of Commandos/Mercs and Sorc/Sages is absolutely ludicrous, I don't care if you have to "stand still" for 1.5 seconds to "cast" you have everything you need in your toolkit to more than polish off anyone 1 on 1 and perform above expectations in teamplay.

 

This is skewed balancing and quite frankly a joke.

 

I'm sick and tired of hearing the pathetically poor attempts at defending these class mirrors, LoS works against ANY ranged class, interupt works against most classes if not all that have a channeled ability, these are basic hints for basic pvp play at the most infant of levels.

 

So I interupt your tracer missle? Then what? Oh that's right you rocket punch me backwards and unload until tracer comes back up.

 

So I LoS you? Then what? Oh you follow me or move to a position where I must pass and will have a heck of a time trying to get to a spot to break the LoS.

 

So I get into melee distance? Then what? Oh you use one of your knockbacks and/or Stun me then proceed to kite me at a safe distance where I cannot leap towards you.

 

So I actually get through all that and continue to wail on you? Then what? You already got extra mitigation from tracer spam aaaaand here is another 25% so now you can dps race me to death.

 

So I get you low then what? You stun and heal yourself, now I have to start again and if my medpacks are on cooldown I cannot heal so you have won the fight by default.

 

===========================

 

Basically put, you mercs and sorcs needs to put a sock in it, suck it up, stop spamming l2p you are all noobs, etc and start realising...You have too much of your own way right now and it's going to change.

 

So rather than pretending that it was intended, because it clearly isn't...start looking at ways to change it so the class for the better.....or don't say I didn't tell you say when the nerfhammer falls in your direction and it hits you harder than you thought it would.

 

Op/Scoundrels are testament to this, most were in denial, the FOTM'ers are gone, those of us that knew it had to happen were happy with it after it happened, adapted and continue to enjoy our class.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Zarthorn

[ugig]

As a Gunslinger, a Juggernaut and an Assassin, i've found that pretty much the outcome to a tracer missile spam fight is who gets the the jump.

 

My jug and assassin got enough interupts to mess up a merc in no time if im ontop of them before they start spamming, while my Gunslinger can outright kill them if given the 3 seconds to set up burst. However if im caught at range, or they attack me first and get their their button mashing going i'm dead 90% of the time.

 

For my Gunslinger, Take first hit ... 1.5s to enter cover, 1.5s to set up an attack of some sort ... theres 3 hits and a 4th incoming before i've even hit them once and then im usually dead.

 

^^^^^^^

Isnt this as it should be? all things being equal the one who got the drop should be the one winning. And thats what you dont see in pretty much all "Nerf TM" posts, I would be willing to bet 99% of the time the merc/commando got the jump on the person and won.

[Kuari]

^^^^^^^

Isnt this as it should be? all things being equal the one who got the drop should be the one winning. And thats what you dont see in pretty much all "Nerf TM" posts, I would be willing to bet 99% of the time the merc/commando got the jump on the person and won.

 

And yet the problem isn't that they won in on itself, or anyone who complained about anything on here would be complaining about EVERYONE, because you're inevitably going to lose to someone of each class.

[Machazareel]

I had no idea smashing your face on a single key was fun (have a commando, I hate playing him because it's boring simplistic stuff that I could sit my dog on my lap, put its paw on the keybind for Grav round and it would score kills)

 

And yes you are making the typical "I'm OP deal with it" response.

 

The only people that are scrubs are those that rolled the easymode class and would sooner defend it in it's broken, boring state than go "Hey you know, this class really isn't fun to play and it's pretty stupid that I have to use one skill over and over because it has more utility than everything else, maybe I should suggest how to balance it which would make it more rewarding to play"

 

But nope, typical FOTM player, typical FOTM post, typical player going to be crying at how Bioware gutted them and they are now unplayable come the eventual nerf.

 

You know a bit like a load of Ops/Scoundrels did yesterday whereas those of us that actually enjoy the class saw the nerf as a step forward and continue to enjoy the class.

 

The whole FOTM concept is monumentally ridiculous right now. The game hasn't even been out for two months yet. Most mercs rolled merc from day 1, many of whom hadn't experienced more than a beta weekend before starting the game for real.

 

Dual blasters and a jetpack were why I rolled merc to begin with. I started as arsenal because missiles seemed cool. I'm sure I'm not alone on this. Stop trying to use tired WoW terms that honestly don't apply yet to a brand new game. Hell, I didn't even touch merc in my beta weekend because I wanted the class story to be fresh.

[dannythefool]

Isnt this as it should be? all things being equal the one who got the drop should be the one winning. And thats what you dont see in pretty much all "Nerf TM" posts, I would be willing to bet 99% of the time the merc/commando got the jump on the person and won.

 

The funny thing is, on my Sentinel I don't even have to get the jump on them... well I do have to jump, but I can do it after I see the TM animation and it still interrupts it. And then it's 4s interrupt every 6s you know the drill. They'll get one through if they time their knockback right and things like that but, well, that's about it.

 

Yeah if there are two or more of them that could be trouble, but come on now, if it takes two of them to kill me that doesn't really make TM overpowered.

[Snaex]

THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH TRACER MISSLE IS THE PERSON SPAMMING IT HAS THE ARMOR AND DEFENSIVE CDS OF A TANK. NERF MERC/COMMANDO MITIGATION....that is all.

 

 

Ooo P.S THEY CAN ALSO HEAL THEMSELVES, SO TO RECAP

HEALING, CHECK

DAMAGE, CHECK

BETTER MITIGATION THEN SOME TANKS, CHECK

 

 

Yea how could that not go wrong.

[caultonpos]

as a melee class i have no problem eating a merc for breakfast.