Scoundrel here getting *****...

[Talkative]

You guys can stun for like 7 seconds now because your stun doesn't fill the resolve bar.

 

They are more annoying now than ever....

 

I'm not one to normally say this but... L2P

It's 3 GCDs, really.

 

It should be 4 but it never quite makes it.

 

Yes, we're not totally gimped but be honest. When an OP/Sco opens on you now your first thought is "ugh stuck for 5 secs" and not "**** do I pop my free?"

 

Mission accomplished.

[neurosisxeno]

You guys can stun for like 7 seconds now because your stun doesn't fill the resolve bar.

 

They are more annoying now than ever....

 

I'm not one to normally say this but... L2P

 

Learn what? What exactly should Operatives learn oh mighty sage of all knowledge? Should the Melee DPS spec start LEARNING how to close gaps with the 0 abilities they have to do it? If you tell me "BUT DEY HAVE STEALTH" I am going to punch you over TCP/IP. Stealth is not something you can throw on whenever you want. Cloaking Screen is on a long cooldown, and can easily be cancelled out with 1 well timed DoT.

 

So what else should they learn? To use Cover and fire their rifle? That makes sense for the Melee class. Let's all make sure we give the Operative some time to run away and use his 3-4 ranged abilities--1 of which is kind of boosted by talents--while we rip into him with full force talented abilities.

 

Maybe you're saying they should learn to survive more? Evasion? Only works on Physical Attacks. Shield Probe? 45s cooldown for 2200-2500 damage mitigation, Sorc's shield has half the cooldown and absorbs 20-30% more, and can be cast on other people. Cloaking Screen? PUNCH OVER TCP/IP. Stealth? Your time amongst the living is up...

 

So when you can write me a nice guide, as to what exactly Operatives have to LEARN, that would make them more effective, I will accept your arguments. Telling a class that they "now have to learn to play" after a 20% flat damage nerf to the only ability they can reasonably use out of stealth, and is affected by several talents, is flat out stupid. How about this, next patch, we remove all the buffs Tracer\Grav gives to other abilities, drop the damage by 10%, and give it a 4.5s cooldown. GUESS YOU GUYS WILL JUST HAVE TO LEARN TO PLAY!

[Jimra]

Mercs saying L2P is always funny. A one-handed person could play that class.

[OnyxGuard]

Correction: Scoundrels now require more than an IQ half your shoe size to escape fights they constantly lose because their sustained damage sucks, and now their burst is gimped.

 

I can play my scoundrel very well, however with this patch I am forced to use LoS and let my dots eat away at a target by out maneuvering them, I can no longer stay and fight like a class should.

 

You wont kill us good Scoundrels, just now we wont kill you either.

 

I'm all for Operatives and Scoundrels getting more sustained damage out of stealth, as that would actually create some interesting toe-to-toe fights (Sith Juggernaut here) and eliminate the need for your DoT kites and me having to Force Charge after you the whole night (because I don't do that enough already, lol, but that's another topic).

 

But the opener needed to be adressed, as it's damage made me burn through hp like toiletpaper on a chilifest. Granted, I'm no Battlemaster yet, but I know retarded damage when I see it.

Edited February 1, 2012 by OnyxGuard

[sunlead]

I'm still doing pretty good, mind you this is a level 41 on the 1-49 bracket. I did get to enjoy being "overpowered" for about a night though was delightful, I made sure to pick the light armor types to make sure they wouldn't get back up.

 

Helpful tips... Pick your target then move in to intercept. Remember stealth gives you the advantage of choosing a fight. I purposely pick the weaker lower health or light armor enemies. Tendon blast is also your friend and so is vital shot, a good dirty kick after the KO works wonders it seems too. Oh and if you really want to ruin someones day, hit a target that is about to kill someone. Usually just that alone will spell defeat for your target. Then heal your buddy if he's still alive for extra fun. Basically capitalize on enemy mistakes :3

[Skuishe]

Operatives and Scoundrels now actually require more than an IQ half your shoesize to be properly played? You don't say...

 

Lol I love it. Like any class in this game takes any real IQ to play. When it comes down to it, any class has a damage set that they've been using for a very long time to apply maximum damage to their targets. It's always VERY EASY. The real challenge does not come in applying damage. It comes in applying worthwhile damage, and leaving yourself in situations to do so.

 

By virtue of being melee, scoundrels had the challenge of picking fights correctly, picking targets correctly, and knowing how to get away so they could do it all again.

 

If you're telling me I don't know how to hit the 5 buttons that I need to apply damage correctly, then frankly, you're an idiot in denial.

 

With the burst gone, now traded for a slightly longer initial stunlock (which isn't even a direct trade, because now after the resolve bar is gone, we no longer have a stun, so overall we lost stun time), I have gained nothing in which to "play correctly" with. The only way I can play is to continue doing what I used to do, with the slight tweak to my opening combo, at much lessened effectiveness, meaning I can no longer kill a competent healer without help, my chance of winning a 1v1 in those scenarios has gone way down, and I no longer help nearly as much in killing priority targets.

 

For all of you claiming that we're skill-less nubs why don't you tell me what I am not doing correctly? And tell me, what exactly is so hard about what you do on your classes? What exactly should I be learning when i "L2P"? How do I get around the fact that I am:

 

1. The squishiest class

2. Compete for the lowest sustained dps

3. Have no mobility options and are crazy kiteable

4. Offer no utility in OBJECTIVE BASED WZs (Disappearing Act + sap cheese aside)

 

I eagerly await your answer so that I can begin my training. But I know you won't have an answer, so please recognize that for anyone making this claim, you are either ignorant of how classes work and of how matchups interract, or plain lazy because you couldn't be bothered to learn how to play against a class.

[Migrayn]

Operatives and Scoundrels now actually require more than an IQ half your shoesize to be properly played? You don't say...

 

As opposed to the high skill required by tracer missle spam and grav round spam. Or do you mean the immense skill needed to but full immune to damage with a bubble and nuke people from 30m away.

 

Hmm So stealthing up behind someone not being seen and making a kill is so skillless. I see your point.

 

Op's and scoundrels should should have to work for their kill. They should have to get into melee range with med armor and crap defences.

 

It takes way more skill to turret from 30m away.

 

You win.

[Kissmyasthma]

These qq tears taste soooooo good, keep them coming.

[Kuari]

OK, I'm going to bring a question up to those who are trying to claim the high damage only happened to level 10s and crap... the bolster clearly gives them more armor than most 50s have. I'm not even joking, you can look for yourself one of these times.. so lets spell it out.

 

Besides defensive cooldowns what could decrease the numbers as much as is claimed? No seriously, what? Expertise? Not every 50 had that at the time it was happening, nor will they ever and new 50s NEED to be able to PvP fairly still to SOME extent. Could other classes bring out big hits with the buffs? Yeah, but no others can really bring them out in such rapid succession.

[OnyxGuard]

As opposed to the high skill required by tracer missle spam and grav round spam. Or do you mean the immense skill needed to but full immune to damage with a bubble and nuke people from 30m away.

 

Hmm So stealthing up behind someone not being seen and making a kill is so skillless. I see your point.

 

Op's and scoundrels should should have to work for their kill. They should have to get into melee range with med armor and crap defences.

 

It takes way more skill to turret from 30m away.

 

You win.

 

I never said anything about Commando's, Mercenaries, Sages or Sorcerers. Irrelevance flows admist the Operative/Scoundrel tears, too.

 

'Hmm So stealthing up behind someone not being seen and making a kill is so skillless. I see your point.' Pre-patch you globalled people back to the respawn directly after you left stealth, and guess what, now they can actually fight back. But I understand that's a rough wake-up call.

 

'They should have to get into melee range with med armor and crap defences.' Because being able to pick your fights at all times and get the drop on enemies and either outright kill them within a couple of globals or bring them down to critical hp percentages (pre-patch and without CC break, that is) should allow you to have great defensive tools and heavy armor while we are at it. I see your point.

 

Thank you, and have a nice day.

Edited February 1, 2012 by OnyxGuard

[carliiiiito]

something had to be done for the opener,it was just too strong.

i agree tho that everything after that opener prolly need to be looked at,as in buffed.

But no other class could drop people that quick,was fairly obvious they were going to tweak it.

As for the part were people say ,well we have to be in melee,with medium armor...well,im an assassin and i have to do that too,but in light armor.

[Kuari]

The problem with people trying to say one thing takes more skill then another is that its not going to change. That part is all about playstyle. What is looked at isn't how much harder of a time one person does over another, that isn't balance. Its potential. Its why you can be certain that commandos/mercs are likely next, maybe followed by sorc to some extent, though I'm pretty sure people are exaggerating the hell out of some of the problems outside of Huttball.

[Skuishe]

I never said anything about Commando's, Mercenaries, Sages or Sorcerers. Irrelevance flows admist the Operative/Scoundrel tears, too.

 

'Hmm So stealthing up behind someone not being seen and making a kill is so skillless. I see your point.' Pre-patch you globalled people back to the respawn directly after you left stealth, and guess what, now they can actually fight back. But I understand that's a rough wake-up call.

 

'They should have to get into melee range with med armor and crap defences.' Because being able to pick your fights at all times and get the drop on enemies and either outright kill them within a couple of globals or bring them down to critical hp percentages (pre-patch and without CC break, that is) should allow you to have great defensive tools and heavy armor while we are at it. I see your point.

 

Thank you, and have a nice day.

 

What you people fail to understand, is that if you're any good, we have just as much chance to kill you now as you did when we "globalled you into respawn". Which by the way, only happened if you were badly geared, and bad (or had all of your cooldowns down). The actually knowledgeable players understand that people who qq with your extremeties are just immature or too lazy to learn how to play or understand the game correctly. And no one was asking for a scoundrel buff to have those defensive tools. But now that we've lost the only advantage we have over any other class, explain to me why they're allowed to have great defensive tools and heavy armor.

 

I hope you have a terrible day.

[mdironman]

i agree with this

 

scoundrels got this *** end of the stick

 

how many sorcs are there? Sorcs are way to op and there the most played char

[Treplos]

I'm all for Operatives and Scoundrels getting more sustained damage out of stealth, as that would actually create some interesting toe-to-toe fights (Sith Juggernaut here) and eliminate the need for your DoT kites and me having to Force Charge after you the whole night (because I don't do that enough already, lol, but that's another topic).

 

But the opener needed to be adressed, as it's damage made me burn through hp like toiletpaper on a chilifest. Granted, I'm no Battlemaster yet, but I know retarded damage when I see it.

 

Dude, you make a decent argument here, unlike most of the imbeciles on these forums.

 

But what should be done is not something the Devs care about. They do not understand much in the game anyway. I am sure of that. They are clueless. Just look at Illum and the horde of bugs they never manage to fix. If they gave us better out-of-stealth sustained DPS, I would have swallowed this nerf pill.

 

The matter of fact is, they nerfed us way too hard with no compensation; yes, maybe the burst needed a bit of toning down, but now we are useless on any player with equal gear and skill. An opener that hits for 1k dmg non-crit? I just crit a merc for 2.8k with it, no shields, no guards. LOL just LOL

 

How the franking hell is a burst class supposed to do any burst now, especially when they have nothing else outside of that burst?

 

Aside from the 20% damage nerf to Hidden Strike, and the 50% nerf to Jarring knowckdown duration, Acid Blast ArmPen also got nerd by 20%, which not only means Hidden Strike got a double nerf, but also BackStab got nerfed, because Acid Blast only works on these 2 skills, plus every other skill used within 15s. The whole dam rotation got nerfed.

 

 

The funny things is, we got nerfed because of bad players who don't know how to PVP, and/or have bad inferior gear. Guess what, they will still get owned regardless, if not by us, but any other class.

 

As for PVP between equally geared/skilled player, Operatives are just crap and useless now for the most part.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Treplos

[-Roidrage-]

i hate to say this is a l2p thread but.... l2p

[Marcuspasnicus]

These qq tears taste soooooo good, keep them coming.

 

You are not helping...

You are winning!

[Treplos]

something had to be done for the opener,it was just too strong.

i agree tho that everything after that opener prolly need to be looked at,as in buffed.

But no other class could drop people that quick,was fairly obvious they were going to tweak it.

As for the part were people say ,well we have to be in melee,with medium armor...well,im an assassin and i have to do that too,but in light armor.

 

And now everything is pretty much useless, opening and whatever. Thank you very much.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Treplos

[neurosisxeno]

i hate to say this is a l2p thread but.... l2p

 

I'll just repost this since nobody felt capable of responding to it.

 

Learn what? What exactly should Operatives learn oh mighty sage of all knowledge? Should the Melee DPS spec start LEARNING how to close gaps with the 0 abilities they have to do it? If you tell me "BUT DEY HAVE STEALTH" I am going to punch you over TCP/IP. Stealth is not something you can throw on whenever you want. Cloaking Screen is on a long cooldown, and can easily be cancelled out with 1 well timed DoT.

 

So what else should they learn? To use Cover and fire their rifle? That makes sense for the Melee class. Let's all make sure we give the Operative some time to run away and use his 3-4 ranged abilities--1 of which is kind of boosted by talents--while we rip into him with full force talented abilities.

 

Maybe you're saying they should learn to survive more? Evasion? Only works on Physical Attacks. Shield Probe? 45s cooldown for 2200-2500 damage mitigation, Sorc's shield has half the cooldown and absorbs 20-30% more, and can be cast on other people. Cloaking Screen? PUNCH OVER TCP/IP. Stealth? Your time amongst the living is up...

 

So when you can write me a nice guide, as to what exactly Operatives have to LEARN, that would make them more effective, I will accept your arguments. Telling a class that they "now have to learn to play" after a 20% flat damage nerf to the only ability they can reasonably use out of stealth, and is affected by several talents, is flat out stupid. How about this, next patch, we remove all the buffs Tracer\Grav gives to other abilities, drop the damage by 10%, and give it a 4.5s cooldown. GUESS YOU GUYS WILL JUST HAVE TO LEARN TO PLAY!

[Rogmar]

...

 

Bad Operative trying to troll.

[RHEEPARK]

Warzones go like this , open on some unsuspecting person, run away cuz u didnt do much, hit with some lightning and slowed forever then death.

[Cosia]

I'll just repost this since nobody felt capable of responding to it.

 

Learn what? What exactly should Operatives learn oh mighty sage of all knowledge? Should the Melee DPS spec start LEARNING how to close gaps with the 0 abilities they have to do it? If you tell me "BUT DEY HAVE STEALTH" I am going to punch you over TCP/IP. Stealth is not something you can throw on whenever you want. Cloaking Screen is on a long cooldown, and can easily be cancelled out with 1 well timed DoT.

 

So what else should they learn? To use Cover and fire their rifle? That makes sense for the Melee class. Let's all make sure we give the Operative some time to run away and use his 3-4 ranged abilities--1 of which is kind of boosted by talents--while we rip into him with full force talented abilities.

 

Maybe you're saying they should learn to survive more? Evasion? Only works on Physical Attacks. Shield Probe? 45s cooldown for 2200-2500 damage mitigation, Sorc's shield has half the cooldown and absorbs 20-30% more, and can be cast on other people. Cloaking Screen? PUNCH OVER TCP/IP. Stealth? Your time amongst the living is up...

 

So when you can write me a nice guide, as to what exactly Operatives have to LEARN, that would make them more effective, I will accept your arguments. Telling a class that they "now have to learn to play" after a 20% flat damage nerf to the only ability they can reasonably use out of stealth, and is affected by several talents, is flat out stupid. How about this, next patch, we remove all the buffs Tracer\Grav gives to other abilities, drop the damage by 10%, and give it a 4.5s cooldown. GUESS YOU GUYS WILL JUST HAVE TO LEARN TO PLAY!

 

Learn to snare/root, LoS and heal. There is nothing wrong with Op/Scoundrel right now, the burst took a slight hit yes but you should easily be able to kill someone you open on.

 

I have no problems surviving or closing gaps. LoS correctly and make them come to you and when they do you snare/root them and move in. When things get hairy you root/snare and LoS to heal up quickly. Also using DA with Dodge always helps, gets rid of all the dots on you.

 

Constantly clearing any tech DoTs/Snares helps as well.

[Kuari]

Warzones go like this , open on some unsuspecting person, run away cuz u didnt do much, hit with some lightning and slowed forever then death.

 

Maybe you shouldn't be running just because you didn't kill them in 3-4 shots.

[Jimra]

Saying l2p only works if they give an actually give a proper response. When people say 'l2p' just by itself they are just too stupid to formulate a proper answer and/or just don't know what they are talking about so can't. So really it's just the equivalent of saying 'duuuuuuh' in the thread.

 

Anyway, you are right about being useless against equally geared players. On the bright side, this might be the kick up the arse I needed to quit this unfortunate habit I've picked up, and refocus on better pursuits.

[Zarthorn]

And now everything is pretty much useless, opening and whatever. Thank you very much.

 

Im sorry but thats garbage.

 

Back blast does slightly less on a crit and has no stealth requirement than shoot first if you make sure to keep flechette round up.

 

Sucker punch has always been decent, as is pistol whip then we have our bread and butter in quick shot and vital shot.

 

If you manage your bleeds, watch your positioning and make sure to keep pugiancy up you should not struggle for damage, heck with the pressure you can single handedly apply to healers you can force them into making fight costing mistakes.

 

Scoundrels are fine now, people just need to realise there is now more to it than owning someone under 3 aeconds.