SWTOR was promising. I liked it untill now.

[Deyjarl]

It didn't just involve token rewards from dungeons.

 

 

This the same WoW we're talking about here? WoW has an extensive token system for their dungeons.

[Kihoon]

i read the first 10 pages of replies here and i'm not saying one way or that, but comparing tor and WoW as is right now is really unfair. if you're going to compare WoW and tor, compare it to when WoW first came out. keep in mind that WoW has been around for a long time and this game is not even 2 months old yet

[DigitalDreamz]

i read the first 10 pages of replies here and i'm not saying one way or that, but comparing tor and WoW as is right now is really unfair. if you're going to compare WoW and tor, compare it to when WoW first came out. keep in mind that WoW has been around for a long time and this game is not even 2 months old yet

 

Sorry this is incorrect. You don't create a product of any kind and compare it to something from a few years back. That is a ridiculous thing to say and it's essentially excusing poor craftsmanship whatever the trade may be. Car manufactures don't release vehicles today and when it fails todays standards suggest to it's buyers "Hey at least it's a great car compared to 1985!"

 

When you release you compete with present day. No excuses. Bioware had four years of development time and a budget of 200+ million. To release something in present day and compare it to titles seven years back is embarrassing.

[Nasato]

The main thing you have to remember when considering the current state of SWTOR when compared to games like World of Warcraft is that SWTOR is in its first year.

 

When wow first came out it wasn't all that great either, and it wasn't much different from the current state of SWTOR. People tend to forget this when they are playing a new MMO. WoW has had 7+ years to perfect their design.

 

Honestly I would still be playing WoW if it wasnt for the community on WoW, they are all mean to each other and completely elitist about even the most trivial of things.

 

What makes SWTOR better than WoW? The community. At least for now, the community is bound to get worse like it did with wow.

[Kihoon]

Sorry this is incorrect. You don't create a product of any kind and compare it to something from a few years back. That is a ridiculous thing to say and it's essentially excusing poor craftsmanship whatever the trade may be. Car manufactures don't release vehicles today and when it fails todays standards suggest to it's buyers "Hey at least it's a great car compared to 1985!"

 

When you release you compete with present day. No excuses. Bioware had four years of development time and a budget of 200+ million. To release something in present day and compare it to titles seven years back is embarrassing.

 

but to compare something that has been constantly ugraded for years to something that has just started is also kinda ridiculous too. im not saying that you shouldn't compared WoW to tor at all, i admit that WoW was revolutional for mmos. but i mean to say, compare them fairly.

 

p.s

 

i don't know about you but some old cars are actually better than new models in present day. that's why people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for 'classic' cars

Edited February 11, 2012 by Kihoon

[DarthKhaos]

Car manufactures don't release vehicles today and when it fails todays standards suggest to it's buyers "Hey at least it's a great car compared to 1985!"

I wish they did because cars are fragile these days. Ever seen one of these wonderful marvels of cars get into an accident with a 1975 Eldorado?

 

I also find your statement about not comparing games to old ones funny. How many people compare games to EQ & UO and saying how great those games were. That's OK cause it proves your point but comparing it to WoW release doesn't so it's not. Rrriiiggghhhttt...

 

I'm not going to compare SW:TOR to any games right now.

• SW:TOR is fun.
  
• SW:TOR has superb voice acting.
  
• SW:TOR leveling is enjoyable.
  
• SW:TOR makes your character feel important.
  
• SW:TOR allows me to craft AND do something like quest or PvP at the same time.
  
• SW:TOR lets tightly wound Jedi get some nookie.
  
• SW:TOR has Huttball.
  
• SW:TOR has Huttball. (It's THAT good)
  
• SW:TOR Warzones allow a level 15 to kill a level 35.
  
• SW:TOR has a big FFA PvP Zone.
  
• SW:TOR is an altoholic's wet dream.
  
• SW:TOR is fun. (Because it really is the only reason that should matter to anyone)
  

There you have it folks. 10 unique points as to why I ignore your complaints.

Edited February 11, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[Jxspyder]

Sorry this is incorrect. You don't create a product of any kind and compare it to something from a few years back. That is a ridiculous thing to say and it's essentially excusing poor craftsmanship whatever the trade may be. Car manufactures don't release vehicles today and when it fails todays standards suggest to it's buyers "Hey at least it's a great car compared to 1985!"

 

When you release you compete with present day. No excuses. Bioware had four years of development time and a budget of 200+ million. To release something in present day and compare it to titles seven years back is embarrassing.

 

You do when you're comparing amount of content.

 

If you want to compare craftsmanship, compare the launch of WoW, which was riddled with problems and close to unplayable, with the launch of TOR...which is arguably the smoothest launch in MMO history.

 

Bioware had 5 years of development time. Blizzard has had 13 years of development time. To attempt to claim that Bioware can develop the same amount of content in nearly 1/3 the time that it took Blizzard is just stupid. Embarrassingly stupid.

 

But that won't stop people from continuing to compare apples and oranges.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Jxspyder

[DigitalDreamz]

I cannot fathom how so many apologists here vehemently and blindly defend this game. To even try to defend a game which has to compare itself to titles seven years past because it fails current standards is appalling. There is no defending this; When you release you compete with present day. There is no grace period anymore. No honeymoon phase. You release you compete. There are over 550+ mmos out there now competing for everyones money. If this company needs 'time' to get things right, guess what another game will get it correct right away.

 

If anything this company and the developers SHOULD have learned from others mistakes and delivered a title which didn't walk into the pitfalls that plagued previous games. Did they? Nope they made the same mistakes and in some instances made things worse!

 

Don't worry ten more days and you won't have to hear from me any longer. This forum will be all yours to bow and worship the ground Bioware and LucasArts walks on and the meanies will all go away!

Edited February 12, 2012 by DigitalDreamz

[finetop]

I cannot fathom how so many apologists here vehemently and blindly defend this game.

 

People providing suggestions on how to improve the game should play something else! Sounds like a great way to have a good game.

[Lyfei]

Things cannot improve if things cannot be debated. I for one played wow from vanilla to just a few weeks ago when I started playing this.

 

The one thing I was deeply hoping for was an interactive community like swg had before the game was destroyed. The cantinas, master docs in spaceports, oh those were the days. I have NOT come across a game that compares to this day and I have played pretty much every MMO ever released. Wow has never come close to swg thats just my opinion. Lack of options does not mean wow was the best MMO ever.

 

I started playing wow at release and I have to be honest I hated it. But it was better then swg after the dreaded CU hit. Vanilla had no pvp only world pvp, few dungeons and some classes could not obtain gear because it simply didn't exist. Over time look what the monster grew into. They learned alot. Like *cough* NEVER make one area a central gathering area (fleets) ... bad idea IMO.

 

I am confident this game will improve but Bioware MUST not adopt the "sony" type ignore the player base attitude. I strongly urge Bioware to stop making time sinks so obvious. Take the typical out of MMO, you have an awesome story line driven game being ruined by ridiculous time sinks. The travel MUST be improved, its aggravating to say the least.

 

Listen to the player base don't dismiss peoples opinions. I am very pleased with the story lines, just disappointed with the lack of community enriching classes. Would love to see the cantinas being used for an entertainer type profession.

 

Player housing, the most clever time sink ever created was in swg. I spent tons of time hour after hour re - arranging furniture and decorating my houses, mall or whatever. But it was MY choice and I enjoyed it. And like wow, with time, swg learned to rid the game of time sinks. JTL made travel nice, space rocked in swg. Hopefully Bioware listens, learns and grows into a game derived by community opinion and not programmer tyranny like swg did, in the end had they listened the CU would not have finished off a game that still had much promise.

 

Many may not agree on this portion of my post. I would like to see more solo daily's. Once the server levels and everyone is raiding etc leveling alts is going to get annoying with all the current group type missions etc. Don't get me wrong I like grouping in fact 85% of my play time I'm in a group I'm just thinking down the road.

 

I know this game is still young, but it will only get better by people voicing their opinions. I hate replys by trolls with conformer attitudes. Just because you don't agree with a post doesn't mean the post has no value to the community as a whole.

 

I look forward to seeing the game evolve into a truly great MMO. Lets just hope things don't go bad and not be able to recover before it's too late. I have seen this fate in several games and it could have been prevented by merely listening to the player base.

 

Good luck all see you in the battle field!!

[finetop]

Good post Lyfei.

[Feelinestars]

I cannot fathom how so many apologists here vehemently and blindly defend this game. To even try to defend a game which has to compare itself to titles seven years past because it fails current standards is appalling. There is no defending this; When you release you compete with present day. There is no grace period anymore. No honeymoon phase. You release you compete. There are over 550+ mmos out there now competing for everyones money. If this company needs 'time' to get things right, guess what another game will get it correct right away.

 

If anything this company and the developers SHOULD have learned from others mistakes and delivered a title which didn't walk into the pitfalls that plagued previous games. Did they? Nope they made the same mistakes and in some instances made things worse!

 

Don't worry ten more days and you won't have to hear from me any longer. This forum will be all yours to bow and worship the ground Bioware and LucasArts walks on and the meanies will all go away!

 

Such a good post. +10 internets.

[Jumajin]

but to compare something that has been constantly ugraded for years to something that has just started is also kinda ridiculous too. im not saying that you shouldn't compared WoW to tor at all, i admit that WoW was revolutional for mmos. but i mean to say, compare them fairly.

 

p.s

 

i don't know about you but some old cars are actually better than new models in present day. that's why people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for 'classic' cars

 

I'm sorry . . . compare them fairly?

 

Welcome to business. There is no such thing. The bottom line is that SWTOR must compete with World of Warcraft as it stands in 2012, not 2004. BioWare made this even more of a consumer requirement when they exclaimed that any game that does not follow WoW and use it as a benchmark is asking to fail.

 

I work in the table-top RPG industry as a writer, designer, and publisher, both for my own company and numerous others. When we release a new RPG system, we are competing with Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition, Pathfinder, HERO 6th Edition, and D&D 4th Edition (and soon to be 5th edition).

 

We are not competing with the original Savage Worlds, HERO 4th edition, D&D 2nd edition, and so forth. It doesn't matter how much money, development, and support WoTC/Hasbro has thrown into D&D in the 4 years since 4e launched. We are still competing with that line as it stands in 2012, whether we want to or not.

 

Unfair to the competition? Maybe. But that is business.

 

BioWare/EA could very well learn a very hard lesson in 2012. If you pump World of Warcraft as the benchmark and the be-all of the MMO industry, and then you want to compete against it, you better damn well bring all your guns to the fight.

 

They brought a knife.

 

 

(Disclaimer: I don't play WoW and have not since 2009. But it is the definition of the genre for a lot of people. Just as Dungeons & Dragons is the definition of role-playing games, regardless of the better games on the market.)

[wrmrstacrdwower]

SWTOR was promising. I liked it untill now. And then I played Tera and raged about the poor job Bioware did and using the Hero Engine.

[Denskoo]

I cannot fathom how so many apologists here vehemently and blindly defend this game. To even try to defend a game which has to compare itself to titles seven years past because it fails current standards is appalling. There is no defending this; When you release you compete with present day. There is no grace period anymore. No honeymoon phase. You release you compete. There are over 550+ mmos out there now competing for everyones money. If this company needs 'time' to get things right, guess what another game will get it correct right away.

 

If anything this company and the developers SHOULD have learned from others mistakes and delivered a title which didn't walk into the pitfalls that plagued previous games. Did they? Nope they made the same mistakes and in some instances made things worse!

 

Don't worry ten more days and you won't have to hear from me any longer. This forum will be all yours to bow and worship the ground Bioware and LucasArts walks on and the meanies will all go away!

 

It's impossible for an MMO to be complete upon release. They never are. It's a balancing act of what to have on release: how much leveling content, how much endgame content, how much "flavor stuff", how much focus put on bug fixes, stability focus, etc. To me, SWTOR did a fair job on balancing all of that. Games like WoW and EQ2 simply didn't have much existing competition when they released. Sure there were games like UO and EQ1 but their populations were tiny in comparison to what WoW became even early on.

 

So far with SWTOR I've yet to run into anything that has prevented me from enjoying the game. I can barely even log into WoW anymore because it seems so mind-numbingly dull in comparison. And for now I'm still too busy trying to finish up planets and bonus series' to see all of the stories.. and still working on companion affection so I can see those stories as well. I've barely had time to look at endgame much yet. Heck I'll probably be focusing on an alt first before progressing much on my main... just to see how all of the dialogue differs taking the dark side route and try out a different class play style.

 

Don't get me wrong.. swtor has tons of issues. But as long as I'm enjoying the heck out of the game, I really can't consider any of them that major at this point. Well.. except for the fact that we can't ride tauntauns. That's a pretty significant design failure.

[FinNaritus]

Hello

 

I got to level fifty about one month ago from now and I couldn't stop bragging about how amazing this game was. I was on these forums daily trying to fight away the people who hate this game and making suggestions for end game. Quite simply you can call me blinded and obsessed. I couldn't face denial that this game actually is bad.

 

Here I am now then telling you why I dislike the game and seeing if I can relate to those who back up this game that had promise but has lost it.

 

1) PvP:

PvP was promising. Huttball was new and enjoyable (imo) and the other two warzones were attractive and easy to get used to. However after playing these same three warzones over and over with no differentiation is a drag. Especially having to get to valor 60 for the best gear simply either farming rare empire kills in illum (I say rare because each one I attack has 5 people on back-up behind them) or farming those three warzones alot!!

 

"Why can you not play this game just because you enjoy playing?" I did enjoy playing but come on, be logical. Doing the same three things over and over simply doesn't maintain it's excitement.

 

2) PvE: Just flashpoint after flashpoint and the only reason to do it is for the gear piece at the end to be traded for columi. No decent gear any other way. Flashpoint drops were terrible. Took forever to find a full group even tho its only 4 man. No reputation gains to buy gear from reputation vendors etc. Just a boring one way street.

 

The reasons behind why WoW was enjoyable with PvP

• Dueling in durotar/elwynn added competitiveness against own faction. Cannot happen here because there is no dueling area within 10 seconds from the main part of the fleet without going through a loading screen.
  
• Arena. Yes arena added excitement to PvP and added competition. I enjoy competition and therefore is why SWTOR has lost its edge for me. No matter how much you hate arena it is still better than anything SWTOR has to offer at this moment. It consists of rewards if you are good and is not dependant on others. It feels personal to you making a team. Just endless hours could be spent trying to increase rating and the feeling of winning was great.
  
• Ratings for arena and battleground groups. Added competition and elitism. Made the community thrive in a bad or good way. Depends how you think about it.
  
• Battleground were alot larger than SWTORs and added an MMO feel to it. Mounting included.
  

 

The reasons behind why WoW was enjoyable with PvE

• It didn't just involve token rewards from dungeons. The actual gear from dungeons was useful. Made people have a sense of excitement when killing a boss waiting for loot to drop. Wasn't free access to token gear at the end of each dungeon.
  
• The token grind for gear that was worth XXXX amount of tokens wasn't long. It was only 2 weeks of lock time or so. Compared to SWTOR this is short.
  
• One of my favorite features of WoW when it was in WoW was the daily heroic where you had to kill a specific boss in a specific dungeon.
  
• Dungeon finder was easy to use and using it gave rewards.
  

 

The reasons why WoW was enjoyable

• Community was larger and auction house was thriving. Had an actual economy. Felt good.
  
• Events that took place when events took palce in reality. E.G christmas events that gave you decent rewards from doing christmas stuff or valentines day etc etc.
  
• You could re-do you characters hair style at the barbers.
  
• Professions felt great once they were leveled to the max. Felt like you achieved something.
  
• Fishing, Archaeology, First aid etc
  
• You could attack the enemy cities. Also attack towns and cities alone as long as you avoided elites because guards were only normal mobs. In SWTOR guards are champions for most places.
  
• Flying mounts
  
• Quick travel with portals.
  
• Daily quest zone had dailys close together and it interacted with opposite faction. So it could also be pvp. Zones were small and easy to complete. Not a drag. Illum daily area doesn't have much zones shared with imperial and is quite the drag in illum.
  
• Guilds had reputation/amazing rewards for being exalted with guild. Heirlooms to level alts with. Mounts etc.
  
• The ammount of gear varied massively and it wasn't allways the vendor gear that was the best. Unlike SWTOR where you can only rely on vendor gear.
  

 

The reasons why Rift was enjoyable for me (I played no part in pvp so I have no idea what it is like)

• Frequent world events / updates. Rifts opened and invasions happened where community would group up.
  
• Zones were shared with opposite faction at higher level instead of split into two halves.
  
• PvE gear was aquired only from bosses. Vendor gear was not necessary the best gear again. Also crafted gear was good and there was crafting daily/weekly.
  
• Crafting was updated frequently
  
• Training dummys
  
• Multiple currencys from rifts. Allowed purchase of gear that could be used at end-game level.
  
• Reputation mounts.
  
• Reputation
  
• 10-man instances were completely different to 25-man. 10 man rifts were available and 5 man.
  
• two tiers of dungeon at launch.
  
• and more!
  

 

Good post man.

[DarthKhaos]

Hey Lyfei. Well thought out and articulate post. Good to see that there. It's hard for any game to compare with what happened in SW:G cantinas because there was a leveling class IN the cantina. Combat classes NEEDED to go to the cantina to remain able to function properly in combat. SW:G was not a combat centered game, neither is EvE Online since a lot of people love to mention it. The type of people it attracts will be different, as well as the numbers.

 

What World of Warcraft did was open the eyes of a lot of casual gamers to the MMO genre. I played Online RPG's but not massive ones until Blizzard started talking about theirs. So I went and checked out a few while I waited for it to be finished and we know how long that can be when it comes to Blizzard. I was in SW:G as a tailor. I owned a large Naboo house, did my own gathering, hosted weddings on the roof. I had chefs to do the cooking, musicians to play the music, can't remember who was tossing fireworks, the whole shabang. Then one day I got bored.

 

Player housing was cool and all but as you said it was a time sink, not just in arranging but maintaining it. I've seen player houses abandoned and in disrepair all over the place. Made the whole world look crappy.

 

Travel in SW:TOR can use some streamlining but I disagree with most with the instant travel to planets, even to the ship. Load screens is an issue for a lot indeed. What I think they need to do is load the ship interior with the planet & you do not take off as soon as you board so you can hop on and off with a simple fade to black like the elevators. Traveling from planet to planet take 1-2 mins and during that time load the destination planet in the background. So by the time your ship reaches the planet is loaded. Stuff like that. I'd agree with allowing speeders inside the spaceports.

 

All the comparisons with other games is funny. One person said you don't compete with the game 7 years ago but now. However unless you pull a Blizzard and constantly push a release date back, but they were also their own publisher. I honestly can't remember how long World of Warcraft was in development, it was a LONG time though, and even with the pushbacks stuff hit the fan HARD at launch. People really don't know what is entailed in launching something THIS BIG.

 

Now I don't intend to be harsh but if all you're going to do is scream "This game sucks it's going to fail." then **** & ****. If you're gonna have some constructive suggestions and stuff bring it on. All the "FIX NOW OR I UNSUB!" really will be ignored and flamed because even if BioWare totally agrees with you fixes take time. However understand some people love the game as is and will defend it. They are not right or wrong, from their point of view they're having fun and you wish to spoil that.

 

And on a last note. I find it funny people say the game sucks and is a grind and leveling blows (I know right) yet they play 5hrs a day and stuff.

[SithEnvoy]

Im gonna throw in my 2 cents.

 

WoW has been a big success in the gaming industry. I dont mind at all if they copy WoW features/gameplay. In some aspects i wish they would have copied them. But for me, the game fails in so many things.

 

- First the engine. The animation/ability issue that plagued the game at release was a shame, really. It shouldnt have been there. Now even with the fixes, characters feel clunky, rough. Game suffers when you get a few dozen characters on screen, and agonizes in Ilum. Thats what you get for buying a 3rd party engine to save time instead of developing one of your own.

 

- Second, the restrictions. Freedom in the game is an illusion. You dont get to choose anything. Yeh, you may get to chose to kill or spare NPC number 23525235, but you get no important choices. Character customization is lacking. Textures are poor. You dont get to choose your ship, you dont choose your companions, you dont choose your gear as everyone endgame gets their endgame set and everyone looks the same (sets that btw, look like taken out of the Power Rangers series). Crafting is a joke. You dont get to choose where to level as there is only one place suitable for your level. Leveling path is LINEAR, LINEAR, LINEAR.

 

- Sparing the main storyline, and the voice acting, the game feels rushed to me.

 

It would take a ton of work to keep me interested in the game:

 

- Add more variety of gear (not just 1 viable set) and some BETTER textures. Being able to extract mods and customize gear is a nice step in the right direction but its not enough.

 

- Add the option of creating companions from scratch and customizing them: gear, skills, etc. As they would only be available for PVE that shouldnt break PVP. That would be really nice.

 

- Remove some airlocks/instances from the game. I wanna see players around, worlds feel dead.

 

- Create new leveling areas and dont force us on the same leveling path again and again and again.

 

- And last, add end game content that cant be rushed in a few days. Gamers like a challenge every while and then.

 

EDIT: Oh, and please enable server transfers. Some servers are dying, and ppl will rather quit than reroll and start from scrath, facing the same quests again and again. Its happened in my server. So the people that quit in low population servers will drag the remaining players with them unless you give them the opportunity to migrate. This is something urgent in my opinion.

Edited February 12, 2012 by SithEnvoy

[LordSatoh]

I agree.

 

Those are the reasons that overfilled my cup... And yes I just wait for my GTC to expire.

 

I started this game with 7 friends. None of them plays anymore.

Once I reached 50 wasn't so bad but by the time I got my full champion set I realized its too much of same, pointless and extremely frustrating mechanics around.

Ilum is like a downhill ride... without an end seems like it.

Repetivenes to the core. Nothing exiting awaits. All done and way too easy.

Got another toon to 35. Enough. Can't stand mirror copy of questing (10% diversity is not substantial). Too much.

Economy non existent.

Crafting is nothing but credits sink.

Armor design (subjective) from samurai to power rangers doesn't have star wars feel to it. Shoulder pads straight from Mordor are seriously a joke.

Secret nerfs and tweaks. Nothing fun about it. Just proves that devs do not trust this community. This is the reason there are no damage meters if you ask me. All this "fixes" would be waaaaay too obvious.

Useless commendations.

Non existing customer service. I seen a lot but this team is a rofl. Not even worth commenting.

Fanboy community. This is the worst I think because halts (or slows down) feedback. They will hijack every post that has negative opinion (merit or not does not matter) and act like we are one a platinum ride. Grow up people. You can do much more than you think and if it doesn't concern you then at least stay away from it. Let those that have issues voice them out loud. It can happen to you too one day.

 

Well I guess that's it

I'll be probably back 6-10 months to see what's up but who knows. Few MMOs with promising titles on the horizon.

 

Have fun all

[Halvos]

It's impossible for an MMO to be complete upon release. They never are. It's a balancing act of what to have on release: how much leveling content, how much endgame content, how much "flavor stuff", how much focus put on bug fixes, stability focus, etc. To me, SWTOR did a fair job on balancing all of that. Games like WoW and EQ2 simply didn't have much existing competition when they released. Sure there were games like UO and EQ1 but their populations were tiny in comparison to what WoW became even early on.

 

It's true no MMO is complete when it's released, but what myself, and I think others, are annoyed with is the fact that BioWare cut out so many things that should be considered standard for an MMO releasing in 2012.

 

Look at a game like Rift, which released last year, where there were very few bugs, they fixed them extremely fast and didn't even bring down the server to do it a lot of the time, the game felt polished, the world felt alive due to the constant invasions happening, and they had a ton of the standard features SWTOR is lacking (efficient AH, very customizable UI, so on), not to mention the customer service from Trion was outstanding. Of course that game had it's problems, but it felt like a game that was ready to launch.

 

This game was so obviously rushed. Those of us in beta would constantly give them suggestions on what they need to improve or tweak and those went almost completely ignored. Many of the complaints from early beta are what everyone is seeing on the forums now. I was one of those people always saying "It's just beta, it will get better at launch." Clearly, I was just deluding myself.

[Jxspyder]

I'm sorry . . . compare them fairly?

 

Welcome to business. There is no such thing. The bottom line is that SWTOR must compete with World of Warcraft as it stands in 2012, not 2004. BioWare made this even more of a consumer requirement when they exclaimed that any game that does not follow WoW and use it as a benchmark is asking to fail.

So you're saying that no MMO that doesn't launch with comparable amounts of content to WoW should never release? Or are you saying that WoW must stop all development in order to allow other games to launch? Because either way, you're claiming that any launching MMO, which is a genre designed around long-term content growth, basically can't launch.

 

I work in the table-top RPG industry as a writer, designer, and publisher, both for my own company and numerous others. When we release a new RPG system, we are competing with Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition, Pathfinder, HERO 6th Edition, and D&D 4th Edition (and soon to be 5th edition).

We are not competing with the original Savage Worlds, HERO 4th edition, D&D 2nd edition, and so forth. It doesn't matter how much money, development, and support WoTC/Hasbro has thrown into D&D in the 4 years since 4e launched. We are still competing with that line as it stands in 2012, whether we want to or not.

So you're unnamed table top RPG company can compete content-wise with Wizards of the Coast? You have just as many editions, models, expansions, etc as Wizard of the Coast has launched with? All of which are equal to or superior to Wizards products? Because if you don't....you should consider taking your own advice. Remember, you need to have exactly the same amount of content, need to have the exact same systems, and still at the same time bring something completely new to the table.

 

 

Unfair to the competition? Maybe. But that is business.

 

BioWare/EA could very well learn a very hard lesson in 2012. If you pump World of Warcraft as the benchmark and the be-all of the MMO industry, and then you want to compete against it, you better damn well bring all your guns to the fight.

 

They brought a knife.

You pretty clearly know nothing about business. But that's okay, not everyone does. I really don't see EA/Bioware learning much of any of this so-called "lesson" you've decided they're going to learn. Unless by learn a lesson, you mean have the single-best launch in MMO history. I suppose they did learn that lesson.

[darthdoll]

It's true no MMO is complete when it's released, but what myself, and I think others, are annoyed with is the fact that BioWare cut out so many things that should be considered standard for an MMO releasing in 2012.

 

Look at a game like Rift, which released last year, where there were very few bugs, they fixed them extremely fast and didn't even bring down the server to do it a lot of the time, the game felt polished, the world felt alive due to the constant invasions happening, and they had a ton of the standard features SWTOR is lacking (efficient AH, very customizable UI, so on), not to mention the customer service from Trion was outstanding. Of course that game had it's problems, but it felt like a game that was ready to launch.

 

This game was so obviously rushed. Those of us in beta would constantly give them suggestions on what they need to improve or tweak and those went almost completely ignored. Many of the complaints from early beta are what everyone is seeing on the forums now. I was one of those people always saying "It's just beta, it will get better at launch." Clearly, I was just deluding myself.

 

You know why they were ignored? Its because players are stupid, its a fact. Rift had a lot of bugs, the one I remember was the loophole through the servers that let hackers gain access to any account, that's a bigger problem than anything in TOR so far. Games get rushed, deal with it.

[DarthKhaos]

You know why they were ignored? Its because players are stupid, its a fact. Rift had a lot of bugs, the one I remember was the loophole through the servers that let hackers gain access to any account, that's a bigger problem than anything in TOR so far. Games get rushed, deal with it.

~panic~ DUDE don't antagonize the forum dwellers here that wear rose tinted glasses.

 

SW:G was the greatest thing since slice bread. Every game other than this one rocks and had perfect launches, no bugs, no issues and tickles you in that special place reserved for your one and only true love!!!

PHEW. I think that calmed them down and avoided a riot.

Edited February 13, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[terminaattori]

Sorry eweryone, but that guys is right...loved this game, speaked for it,asked friends to try it, gaved some time to fix bugs and add more endgame content....but the truth is this game was released 1year too early and here is result...hope someone enjoys this game but im not. Good try,but wow-clone whitout all the good little things from wow aint gonna work.

[Senatsu]

Sorry eweryone, but that guys is right...loved this game, speaked for it,asked friends to try it, gaved some time to fix bugs and add more endgame content....but the truth is this game was released 1year too early and here is result...hope someone enjoys this game but im not. Good try,but wow-clone whitout all the good little things from wow aint gonna work.

 

Nice necroing there.