SWTOR was promising. I liked it untill now.

[MikelGoff]

Considering how fast leveling is, how could you buy the game Dec 20 and not be level 50 by now?

 

I was level 50 in about 40 hours /played

 

That's only a couple hours a week.

 

Some of us don't make love to the spacebar.

[jordanph]

Some of us don't make love to the spacebar.

 

You're the type of person that gets jealous of someone that hits 50 before them.

[DarthRik]

but WoW pvp is so unblanced and one side to about 3 classes, mage, rogue and hunter andything else out of these are just under par

 

THIS GAME ISNT WORLD OF WARCRAFT

 

im going to stop playing call of duty because it doesn thave tanks like battlefirld 3 has... and the M$ rifle looks nicer in battlefield than it does in cod....

 

 

this is an arena tournament from only a few days ago, listen to them, they even say that some classes are OP over others

 

 

and this crap is what you want to be put into swtor

Edited February 4, 2012 by DarthRik

[GamerDJ]

After reading your post all I can say is that all of these features you are pointing out were added into wow YEARS after the launch of the game. Even the large community didn't really start until 2 to 3 years after the game launched. It seems to me that you really like the features of a game that normally come later on. Star Wars has done a fantastic job with it's launch and has added more goods and a well thought out design than most game have a year after launch.

 

Remember WoW has had over 5 years of adding and tweaking their game. Star Wars is only a month or so old. Bio-ware has done the best job I've ever seen. Not even WoW at it's launch had features like this game does.

 

Pace yourself, Luckily Bio-ware is smart and already has new content that they are going to release over time. They planned ahead.

[Navakai]

This is a great post. I especially agree in regards to the dueling area. It's always overlooked, in the conception and its importance.

[Uruare]

To all the fanboys who jump down everyone's throat every time someone mentions WoW, let people vent. They are making post like this because they want the game to be great. They want to play it for years like they did with WoW. Like it or not, WoW is still THE MMO to be compared too.

 

The only way this game will improve is feedback from the community. I'm sick and tired of every time someone criticizes this game, there are a flurry of posts by fanboys such as:

 

"This is perfect! BW is going to herald in the second coming of Jesus and can do no harm! Go back to WoW. How dare you say something that could improve this game!"

 

^ This.

 

 

I'm looking for a new MMO to call my digital-home-away-from-home. WoW was good to me; still could be, though I'm kinda tired of looking at it. City of Heroes was good to me until it went senile in its old age and started turning into City of Warcraft with all its raidy-geargrindy obsessions, and lemme tell ya, when those unfamiliar with how to make raidy-geargrindy fun try to be raidy-geargrindy...it ain't fun.

 

Champions Online was a fun mistress for a while, but a real airhead. Absolutely fun for a night on the town of hacking and whacking and freeform class building, but no substance there at all. If CO were a person, it would be a super-smarmy kindergarten teacher that's actually pretty interesting to talk to in short bursts, but doesn't turn off the babytalk voice around adults and occasionally flips out and shrieks at furniture.

 

LotrO, oh LotrO, I tried to love you. With an IP like Lord of the Rings, you had so much potential, and all you've ever done was waste your epic heritage on being a second-rate WoW. Prettier, more innovative on several interesting class design fronts, but you wear them like embarassments, and you neglect your genuinely interesting concept of a housing system like a mark of shame.

 

Your crafting system was delightfully balanced between utility, usability and genuine relevance at top level content. Sure, that relevance waxed and waned, but it I've never loved a stable of crafting alts like I did in your arms, LotrO. How many long and lovely nights did I spend pouring over resource spreadsheets and plotting seven different paths of crafting productions, tracking market data on sales profits vs production costs/time and feeling, genuinely feeling like I was getting a good return in the fun I wanted to have with that on all the effort it all took?

 

I tried so hard to love you for anything else, LotrO, but alas, you thought yourself too ugly and make Tolkien's IP look too stupid wearing cheap immitations of WoW's clothes, and I became ashamed first for you...and then of you because of it.

 

 

 

And now, SWTOR may have this dance. I fear that this dance is familiar and I am not at all impressed so far despite its obvious passion for telling a good story.

 

Why must they all chase WoW and wear WoW's second-hand clothing of concepts and implementations 'done the same but different' (albeit never actually even as well and, often, rather worse)?

 

Why must the beautiful ones always fail to see their own beauty and potential and try to emulate that canny old cow WoW?

 

/hack-job poetic license.

[Cyphen]

but WoW pvp is so unblanced and one side to about 3 classes, mage, rogue and hunter andything else out of these are just under par

 

THIS GAME ISNT WORLD OF WARCRAFT

 

im going to stop playing call of duty because it doesn thave tanks like battlefirld 3 has... and the M$ rifle looks nicer in battlefield than it does in cod....

 

 

this is an arena tournament from only a few days ago, listen to them, they even say that some classes are OP over others

 

 

and this crap is what you want to be put into swtor

 

Hunter.... lol

 

Any class is viable of at least top 10-50 within the Battlegroup.

[uga-buga]

Nice thread, and good written aswell

[Cyphen]

^ This.

 

 

I'm looking for a new MMO to call my digital-home-away-from-home. WoW was good to me; still could be, though I'm kinda tired of looking at it. City of Heroes was good to me until it went senile in its old age and started turning into City of Warcraft with all its raidy-geargrindy obsessions, and lemme tell ya, when those unfamiliar with how to make raidy-geargrindy fun try to be raidy-geargrindy...it ain't fun.

 

Champions Online was a fun mistress for a while, but a real airhead. Absolutely fun for a night on the town of hacking and whacking and freeform class building, but no substance there at all. If CO were a person, it would be a super-smarmy kindergarten teacher that's actually pretty interesting to talk to in short bursts, but doesn't turn off the babytalk voice around adults and occasionally flips out and shrieks at furniture.

 

LotrO, oh LotrO, I tried to love you. With an IP like Lord of the Rings, you had so much potential, and all you've ever done was waste your epic heritage on being a second-rate WoW. Prettier, more innovative on several interesting class design fronts, but you wear them like embarassments, and you neglect your genuinely interesting concept of a housing system like a mark of shame.

 

Your crafting system was delightfully balanced between utility, usability and genuine relevance at top level content. Sure, that relevance waxed and waned, but it I've never loved a stable of crafting alts like I did in your arms, LotrO. How many long and lovely nights did I spend pouring over resource spreadsheets and plotting seven different paths of crafting productions, tracking market data on sales profits vs production costs/time and feeling, genuinely feeling like I was getting a good return in the fun I wanted to have with that on all the effort it all took?

 

I tried so hard to love you for anything else, LotrO, but alas, you thought yourself too ugly and make Tolkien's IP look too stupid wearing cheap immitations of WoW's clothes, and I became ashamed first for you...and then of you because of it.

 

 

 

And now, SWTOR may have this dance. I fear that this dance is familiar and I am not at all impressed so far despite its obvious passion for telling a good story.

 

Why must they all chase WoW and wear WoW's second-hand clothing of concepts and implementations 'done the same but different' (albeit never actually even as well and, often, rather worse)?

 

Why must the beautiful ones always fail to see their own beauty and potential and try to emulate that canny old cow WoW?

 

/hack-job poetic license.

 

Nicely said.

 

I like TOR but often find my self not wanting to log in... Just waiting for Ranked PvP or something ... Only VRank 47, would of been 80 if I play constantly since Release, which I had the time to.

[DarthRik]

Hunter.... lol

 

Any class is viable of at least top 10-50 within the Battlegroup.

 

you didnt watch the vid, thats the top pvper in wow, not some scrub that might break 2k rating, and every top team is made up of rogue,mage,hunter or with the odd priest

[MikelGoff]

You're the type of person that gets jealous of someone that hits 50 before them.

 

No.

 

I'm having fun enjoying the story. I just get tired of people powerleveling, then complaining about there being not enough content.

[thebigdmkilla]

Hello

*snip*

 

Hey just wondering, did you play WoW at the start? Because you would have *********** HATED it. Lol

[masterdiwa]

I've never played RIFT and have tried WOW only for a few days way, way back.

 

But let's be reasonable here. You are comparing WOW's present state (years in the making), and RIFT's present state (don't know how long) to SWTOR's state which has only been a couple of months since launch.

 

I'm pretty sure WOW and RIFT didn't start the way they are now at the game's 1st two months.

 

You're so quick to judge about SWTOR but being the "veteran MMO" gamer that you are, you of all people should already know the duration of maturity of any MMO takes years.

 

So I don't think it's fair for anyone to compare present-SWTOR to present-WOW and present-RIFT.

 

Ask yourself, was RIFT and WOW as polished and slick as SWTOR in it's first two months at launch? Honest answer? I don't think so.

 

If Bioware was forced to include all WOW-level and RIFT-level content on launch day, then we probably would have SWTOR launched by 2014 or 2015 instead.

 

Patience young padawan, use the force.

Edited February 5, 2012 by masterdiwa

[DarthKhaos]

Dungeon finder is only thing they should add others to me is meh TOR is fine as it is.

Dungeons or Flashpoints are located on the fleet. If you take the missions elevator there's some on one level and a flight to other ships in the fleet that the rest are located on the other level.

 

If you need more help finding them ask someone in General Chat.

Edited February 5, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[Uruare]

I've never played RIFT and have tried WOW only for a few days way, way back.

 

But let's be reasonable here. You are comparing WOW's present state (years in the making), and RIFT's present state (don't know how long) to SWTOR's state which has only been a couple of months since launch.

 

I'm pretty sure WOW and RIFT didn't start the way they are now at the game's 1st two months.

 

You're so quick to judge about SWTOR but being the "veteran MMO" gamer that you are, you of all people should already know the duration of maturity of any MMO takes years.

 

So I don't think it's fair for anyone to compare present-SWTOR to present-WOW and present-RIFT.

 

Ask yourself, was RIFT and WOW as polished and slick as SWTOR in it's first two months at launch? Honest answer? I don't think so.

 

If Bioware was forced to include all WOW-level and RIFT-level content on launch day, then we probably would have SWTOR launched by 2014 or 2015 instead.

 

Patience young padawan, use the force.

 

 

 

In no other industry could any reasonable person think it's totally cool to market a product to people that wasn't competetive with it's own competition.

 

Would you...buy a car at new-car, current model sticker price if that car had features that were seriously out-moded by all the current competition's offerings, and outright absent in certain respects that cars a decade ago sometimes featured?

 

How about a house? Would you buy a house at Brand Spanking New House in Good Neighboorhood prices that didn't have any of the amenities common to houses in virtually any neighborhood at many price ranges now?

 

A computer? Would you buy a computer at top of the line Alienware prices that had none of the bells and whistles common to even a low-priced Big Box Special off a department store's shelf?

 

 

Why should we hold an MMO to a different standard than we might any other product in virtually any industry; heck, any other piece of software period!

 

This accusation some seem to favor of anyone -not- subscribing to that selective variety of functional insanity as being impatient doesn't hold much water.

 

So too does it hold no water at all to look down one's nose at those going 'What the crap?!' over it as though you, yourself, wouldn't be doing the exact same thing if the same circumstance were presented in, very probably, any other medium.

 

 

Don't let MMO developers' excuses -or- their palpable explanations convince you that they need to occupy a special pedestal in business, or that they are deserving of carte blanche sums of tolerance just because they're making an MMO and not any other product in existence.

 

They might have a few good explanations; tough dookie. Put out a quality product that is competetive with the current market; not the market's offerings five years ago, -today's- market; or bend over, because a well earned boot to the posterior will be well merited.

 

Better yet, become the standard that today's competition will be chasing; compete with next year's market today. Do -that- and you win the internet.

 

What we've got going on around here? Obviously we're going to have to tolerate it now if we want to play the gorram game at all between now and when it's finally at the point it -should- have been at on release.

 

And don't give me any of that 'but no MMO is yadda yadda' garbage. MMO developers need to get the hell off that horse and quit acting like they're a special needs group.

 

Is making an MMO easy? No. Might want to ponder that before doing it rather than be yet another slow kid with your tongue stuck to the frozen window of Five Years Ago until 1-2 years have gone by.

 

The beancounters would howl. The execs will want whatever they're masterminding the funding for to be making a 5000% profit ten years ago if possible, and since ***** obeys gravity and slides downhill, Shareholders that want their own private moon made out of solid platinum -right now- will never get off anyone's case to boot something out the door so it can make them money.

 

These people all need to learn a few things. And those things start right bloody here, with our wallets being used to slap them upside the faces rather than add to their coffers until they figure out how to turn out a quality product -on release-.

 

Or they don't start at all and we'll be paying to play beta versions of pretty much every MMO for the first two or so years it's out.

 

Choose.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Uruare

[Tygranir]

In no other industry could any reasonable person think it's totally cool to market a product to people that wasn't competetive with it's own competition.

 

Would you...buy a car at new-car, current model sticker price if that car had features that were seriously out-moded by all the current competition's offerings, and outright absent in certain respects that cars a decade ago sometimes featured?

 

How about a house? Would you buy a house at Brand Spanking New House in Good Neighboorhood prices that didn't have any of the amenities common to houses in virtually any neighborhood at many price ranges now?

 

A computer? Would you buy a computer at top of the line Alienware prices that had none of the bells and whistles common to even a low-priced Big Box Special off a department store's shelf?

 

 

Why should we hold an MMO to a different standard than we might any other product in virtually any industry; heck, any other piece of software period!

 

This accusation some seem to favor of anyone -not- subscribing to that selective variety of functional insanity as being impatient doesn't hold much water.

 

So too does it hold no water at all to look down one's nose at those going 'What the crap?!' over it as though you, yourself, wouldn't be doing the exact same thing if the same circumstance were presented in, very probably, any other medium.

 

 

Don't let MMO developers' excuses -or- their palpable explanations convince you that they need to occupy a special pedestal in business, or that they are deserving of carte blanche sums of tolerance just because they're making an MMO and not any other product in existence.

 

They might have a few good explanations; tough dookie. Put out a quality product that is competetive with the current market; not the market's offerings five years ago, -today's- market; or bend over, because a well earned boot to the posterior will be well merited.

 

Ok, so you are comparing TOR to basic WoW. Go ahead and play WoW without the Expacs and see how much fun it is. Because that is what TOR is. Sure, you Buy an upgraded model of a car, but then you have to pay for the upgrades. Basic car is basic. Basic WoW is dead.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Tygranir

[Uruare]

Ok, so you are comparing TOR to basic WoW. Go ahead and play WoW without the Expacs and see how much fun it is. Because that is what TOR is. Sure, you Buy an upgraded model of a car, but then you have to pay for the upgrades. Basic car is basic. Basic WoW is dead.

 

 

 

What?

 

You didn't read my post. You couldn't have. You got that so exactly backwards that I'm almost beside myself.

 

 

Let me correct you: I'm comparing TOR to MMO's that exist right now.

 

I am asserting that if TOR is not competetive with innumerable MMO's right now, it's an inferior product.

 

Further, I am saying that it's a bunch of crap to just let that be ok. That in no other industry would any reasonable consumer even buy a clearly inferior product for the same asking price as a top-of-the-line product unless some exceptional, prevailing condition necessitated it.

 

If this weren't Star Wars, would -anyone- be cool with this?

Edited February 5, 2012 by Uruare

[Nanoproxil]

Hello

 

I got to level fifty about one month ago from now and I couldn't stop bragging about how amazing this game was. I was on these forums daily trying to fight away the people who hate this game and making suggestions for end game. Quite simply you can call me blinded and obsessed. I couldn't face denial that this game actually is bad.

 

Here I am now then telling you why I dislike the game and seeing if I can relate to those who back up this game that had promise but has lost it.

 

1) PvP:

PvP was promising. Huttball was new and enjoyable (imo) and the other two warzones were attractive and easy to get used to. However after playing these same three warzones over and over with no differentiation is a drag. Especially having to get to valor 60 for the best gear simply either farming rare empire kills in illum (I say rare because each one I attack has 5 people on back-up behind them) or farming those three warzones alot!!

 

"Why can you not play this game just because you enjoy playing?" I did enjoy playing but come on, be logical. Doing the same three things over and over simply doesn't maintain it's excitement.

 

2) PvE: Just flashpoint after flashpoint and the only reason to do it is for the gear piece at the end to be traded for columi. No decent gear any other way. Flashpoint drops were terrible. Took forever to find a full group even tho its only 4 man. No reputation gains to buy gear from reputation vendors etc. Just a boring one way street.

 

The reasons behind why WoW was enjoyable with PvP

• Dueling in durotar/elwynn added competitiveness against own faction. Cannot happen here because there is no dueling area within 10 seconds from the main part of the fleet without going through a loading screen.
  
• Arena. Yes arena added excitement to PvP and added competition. I enjoy competition and therefore is why SWTOR has lost its edge for me. No matter how much you hate arena it is still better than anything SWTOR has to offer at this moment. It consists of rewards if you are good and is not dependant on others. It feels personal to you making a team. Just endless hours could be spent trying to increase rating and the feeling of winning was great.
  
• Ratings for arena and battleground groups. Added competition and elitism. Made the community thrive in a bad or good way. Depends how you think about it.
  
• Battleground were alot larger than SWTORs and added an MMO feel to it. Mounting included.
  

 

The reasons behind why WoW was enjoyable with PvE

• It didn't just involve token rewards from dungeons. The actual gear from dungeons was useful. Made people have a sense of excitement when killing a boss waiting for loot to drop. Wasn't free access to token gear at the end of each dungeon.
  
• The token grind for gear that was worth XXXX amount of tokens wasn't long. It was only 2 weeks of lock time or so. Compared to SWTOR this is short.
  
• One of my favorite features of WoW when it was in WoW was the daily heroic where you had to kill a specific boss in a specific dungeon.
  
• Dungeon finder was easy to use and using it gave rewards.
  

 

The reasons why WoW was enjoyable

• Community was larger and auction house was thriving. Had an actual economy. Felt good.
  
• Events that took place when events took palce in reality. E.G christmas events that gave you decent rewards from doing christmas stuff or valentines day etc etc.
  
• You could re-do you characters hair style at the barbers.
  
• Professions felt great once they were leveled to the max. Felt like you achieved something.
  
• Fishing, Archaeology, First aid etc
  
• You could attack the enemy cities. Also attack towns and cities alone as long as you avoided elites because guards were only normal mobs. In SWTOR guards are champions for most places.
  
• Flying mounts
  
• Quick travel with portals.
  
• Daily quest zone had dailys close together and it interacted with opposite faction. So it could also be pvp. Zones were small and easy to complete. Not a drag. Illum daily area doesn't have much zones shared with imperial and is quite the drag in illum.
  
• Guilds had reputation/amazing rewards for being exalted with guild. Heirlooms to level alts with. Mounts etc.
  
• The ammount of gear varied massively and it wasn't allways the vendor gear that was the best. Unlike SWTOR where you can only rely on vendor gear.
  

 

The reasons why Rift was enjoyable for me (I played no part in pvp so I have no idea what it is like)

• Frequent world events / updates. Rifts opened and invasions happened where community would group up.
  
• Zones were shared with opposite faction at higher level instead of split into two halves.
  
• PvE gear was aquired only from bosses. Vendor gear was not necessary the best gear again. Also crafted gear was good and there was crafting daily/weekly.
  
• Crafting was updated frequently
  
• Training dummys
  
• Multiple currencys from rifts. Allowed purchase of gear that could be used at end-game level.
  
• Reputation mounts.
  
• Reputation
  
• 10-man instances were completely different to 25-man. 10 man rifts were available and 5 man.
  
• two tiers of dungeon at launch.
  
• and more!
  

 

good post

[PjPablo]

But let's compare it to Cataclysm. Completely unplayable with drastic server outages and major bug issues. And all they did with Cataclysm was take a finished work and modify it. Which tends to be a lot easier than starting from scratch. Oh, and how much new content did Cataclysm introduce again? Come on, you want to compare Cataclysm's launch to TOR....so go for it.

 

I must have been playing a different version of Cataclysm than you because I experienced none of that. As far as content you do recall they revamped most of the Vanilla leveling content, right? They also added 5-6 new zones and raised level cap. I am starting to think you didn't even play it.

[Skoobie]

What?

 

You didn't read my post. You couldn't have. You got that so exactly backwards that I'm almost beside myself.

 

 

Let me correct you: I'm comparing TOR to MMO's that exist right now.

 

I am asserting that if TOR is not competetive with innumerable MMO's right now, it's an inferior product.

 

Further, I am saying that it's a bunch of crap to just let that be ok. That in no other industry would any reasonable consumer even buy a clearly inferior product for the same asking price as a top-of-the-line product unless some exceptional, prevailing condition necessitated it.

 

If this weren't Star Wars, would -anyone- be cool with this?

 

So you would agree that every movie that comes out now must have the same technology as Avatar had, or else it's an "inferior" product, right?

 

The only people I see worrying about TOR competing with WoW are the players. In fact, it's only the WoW players that are doing it. It's almost like a disease, where people just can't help themselves.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Skoobie

[Turkman]

I think the OP made some really valid points. IF these things would be added, SWTOR could really be a great game. It's good now, but one who thinks it has no problems is delusional in my opinion.

[XRaumX]

I liked it alot too until I noticed that EVERY warzone I was being put into was f**** Huttball. I don't see myself playing this anymore once I beat the class quest until I can choose to opt out of it.

[PjPablo]

So you would agree that every movie that comes out now must have the same technology as Avatar had, or else it's an "inferior" product, right?.

 

If it were a sci-fi movie but looked like it was ten-fifteen years old then yes its an 'inferior' product.

[Dianoia]

Many of the things the OP posted as plusses about WoW are the same reasons I quit that degrading piece-of-trash game.

 

Arena just doesn't fit in trinity-based MMO. Every season, a handful of comps dominate each bracket, or a handful of classes become godly. It has been the biggest factor in the nerf/buff rollercoaster in that game.

 

Also, I don't care about how many BGs WoW has. All but two are YEARS old. And the two new ones are copies of two of the oldest. The only interesting and fun PvP WoW has is rated BG. Even then, you're running six year old BGs over and over and over and over and over. The fact that Bw is releasing a new WZ already is an exponential improvement over Blizz's release history of new PvP content.

 

The token-for-gear system, especially for tier, was a travesty. There is no progression reason to run any end-game content in that game other than three dungeons and one raid. For months, it was two dungeons and one raid. This systems promotes grinding the same content for weeks. Guess what you do after those two weeks, when you've gotten all your gear from three dungeons and tokens? You run the same raid, kill the same eight bosses over and over and over again. When you're not doing that, you stand around on the capital city doing nothing.

 

Three dungeons.

 

One raid of eight bosses.

 

That's WoW's PvE end-game.

 

I'm sorry, but the only things I agree with here are the GTN improvements.

[Skoobie]

If it were a sci-fi movie but looked like it was ten-fifteen years old then yes its an 'inferior' product.

 

Really?

 

You would make this judgement without actually seeing the movie? You judge movies on looks alone?

 

And it's not fair for you to put it into a genre. If you are going to that with movies, then you need to do that with games too.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Skoobie