Helpless as a kitten

[Pryan_Shimrod]

I don't feel terribly squishy as a Guardian, but I do think something is broken when a Trooper can push one button and mortar away a group of five weak MOBs in 1 second while I have to leap in there and fight them for a few minutes before they die. Trooper = take no damage, me = take some damage and might need to heal after said fight.

 

Mortar shot is one minute CD. So all in all, it means you clear packs at the same rate

 

Except trooper's gameplay is a lot more boring than JK's.

 

I still don't understand though why so many people have problems with the class in PvE, I go into the last class quest fight thinking it'll be really hard (got spoiled coming in here ), killed him on the first attempt, absolutely no problem, no LoS trick, no stim (I was going in for a try at first, didn't expect to kill him so easily), ate a medpack just to be cautious, but I could have done without, my T7 was barely geared (I didn't even try the puzzle as it completely glitched out on me), but he actually helped a lot with the clones with his aoe taunt... I don't even have that great of a gear (mostly pre-49 stuff), and I didn't struggle one bit.

 

I'm starting to wonder if there isn't some bug that affect only some people that would severely hurt their dps or something, given how many players struggle against the last boss and during levelling, while I had absolutely zero problem. Maybe that'd explain the difference between people's experience ?

[khsolo]

In PvP for me the only real class i have problems with as a Sent Watchman is the Assasin and the ocational Sage thats totally geared and/or its pretty good at doing his stuff, everything else on Illum i can beat 1 on 1

 

In Pve the only problem i had was completing my final class quest and a Sith dude in Voss in a cave that took me 5 times to kill and which was totally impossible to do until i figured that i had to keep doc out of his los so he could keep me alive enough to kill him

 

Other than that and the terrible/horrible looking champion gear, the lack of Force Push and the strutters on some abilities i like the character

[Infinite_Zen]

If you want us to be able to be able to give you clear and concise feedback we would need more information.

 

Provide a link to your Specc from Torhead so we can see your build.

 

Provide us an exact rundown of your rotation including what you feel are your priorities.

 

From what you have provided I would say Doc isn't capable of healing you through the damage you take, and Kira isn't adding the DPS you need to kill things fast enough. So a well geared T7 or Lord Scourge may be a better option for you. If your Tank companion is melting against one Strong or Elite then they are either not geared right, not in the right Stance (T7 and Scourge have Tank and DPS stances that I find sometimes get turned off).

 

Bind your Companion's Attack Target to a key and use it to guide him into fights first, or have him switch targets in a fight to hold better threat.

 

Some suggestions - never start on the highest rank creature, 3 regulars shooting at you when your companion is holding the Elite already means you are taking damage you don't need to. If it's 2 Strongs then you should be burning one with CDs while your Companion holds onto the other. If it's 2 Strongs and 1 Elite it's going to be trickier, but this is where all Cooldowns, Awe, Kick, and medpac come into play.

 

Don't save Cooldowns for that "big fight" most of your cooldowns are on short enough CDs that they can be used consistently.

 

Once you post more specific information I am sure quite a few of us can give you more specific feedback.

[Superawesomerman]

soloed the belsavis daily heroic 2 with a level 40ish geared doc, I was in mostly champ.

 

Got low on life a few times, but never died.

 

Also doable with lord scourge, but doc is better (carbonized stream helps some)

[Superawesomerman]

Mortar shot is one minute CD. So all in all, it means you clear packs at the same rate

 

Except trooper's gameplay is a lot more boring than JK's.

 

I still don't understand though why so many people have problems with the class in PvE, I go into the last class quest fight thinking it'll be really hard (got spoiled coming in here ), killed him on the first attempt, absolutely no problem, no LoS trick, no stim (I was going in for a try at first, didn't expect to kill him so easily), ate a medpack just to be cautious, but I could have done without, my T7 was barely geared (I didn't even try the puzzle as it completely glitched out on me), but he actually helped a lot with the clones with his aoe taunt... I don't even have that great of a gear (mostly pre-49 stuff), and I didn't struggle one bit.

 

I'm starting to wonder if there isn't some bug that affect only some people that would severely hurt their dps or something, given how many players struggle against the last boss and during levelling, while I had absolutely zero problem. Maybe that'd explain the difference between people's experience ?

 

Did you pick darkside? If you choose to igrore your comoanions I heard it gets easier

Edited February 1, 2012 by Superawesomerman

[benkennoby]

Hi! i just red this thread, and as much as i hate looking arrogant or elitist, i really don't grasp how can you manage to fail so badly.

Granted, i play a guardian, tank spec, so i can't comment on your "squishiness" but you must have quite more dps than i do...and even i, a tank, can dispatch a normal foe in three hits (force jump force sweep pommel strike) with zero damage taken...for a sentinel, any spec, killing a normal mob should take even less time...

i can't even imagine how 1 strong and three normal mobs could kill you...even with no compagnon it's quite an easy fight...

As some of the other people here said show us your spec, gear, and maybe a video of one of those two seconds-long fights

[FalcoLombardi]

Please, this is the most carebear-friendly MMO ever, it takes 3 days to hit level 50 ffs.

 

At level 50, even without Doc, you can take on elites x2 and still don't die.

 

TLDR: You're doing it wrong.

 

How do you hit level 50 in 3 days without doing nothing but playing the game?

[JerokTalram]

Sentinels aren't really a DPS class either, TBH. We have no on-demand burst that doesn't require build up, unlike every other DPS class in the game... save DPS Guardians. Sustained DPS is okay, but it doesn't get kills in PvP. It's the ability to make 3 big numbers appear in a row that make a class good DPS. Sentinels cannot do that.

 

Not for focus.

 

If you've built up Singularity. Sweep follow by Master strike will give you 3 good numbers in a row.

[Venator-Falco]

Looking over this thread further I can see people outlining exactly how to make a Sentinel work step by step, and then people who are having issues saying that no one is giving constructive advice.

So not only are the Sentinel haters having issues playing the class, but they seem to be having issues with basic reading comprehension.

For those who say a Guardian is easier to play. Yes It is.

There really isn’t any mystery in this fact, Guardians are built for survivability, so you have time to adjust to the combat conditions. The Sentinel is front loaded DPS with minimum survivability. So you have to plan your fights, you have to respond very quickly to changing conditions.

But

And this is the key. If you play the Sentinel well your DPS is higher, and you will be finished any given fight and ready to hit the next one before the Guardian has finished his first. If you want survivability then don’t go the sentinel, if you want to play on the edge but put out great DPS then the Sentinel is for you.

Now for those of you having issues out there, go back through the thread and read the many pieces of useful advice, at the very least acknowledge that the class is not completely broken (Yeah it might be a little tougher to play than others but it isn’t broken) and then decide for yourself. Are you willing to learn to play the class (It aint rocket science) or are you just going to whinge about how it is all bad? When people say L2P yeah they are usually being *****s, but at the end of the day you can take this as an affront, or accept that maybe there is something to learn, and decide do you want to learn it or not.

[Chundermunkey]

I'm levelling a JK Sentinel as an Alternative to my Sith Jugg.

 

Has anybody got any tips regarding survivability in PVe? I'm finding levelling to be frustrating as hell, I'm squishy despite having good gear.

 

I'm doing good DPS in instances and in world but I'm having to heal (introspec) after one or two groups of mobs.

[Venator-Falco]

I'm levelling a JK Sentinel as an Alternative to my Sith Jugg.

 

Has anybody got any tips regarding survivability in PVe? I'm finding levelling to be frustrating as hell, I'm squishy despite having good gear.

 

I'm doing good DPS in instances and in world but I'm having to heal (introspec) after one or two groups of mobs.

 

So your having to spend 10 – 15 seconds of down time every couple of groups…

And that is a bad thing?

You really do like your games in easy mode don’t you.

[Gidoru]

You're mistaken if you think its just JK/SW. DPS speced Assassins/Shadows are in the same boat. Melee classes in this game are just super squishy, id also include Snipers/Gunslingers because they are horrible too. Meanwhile ranged classes get a ton of defensive CDs, mitigation and heals while putting out the same or more damage.

 

I have leveled an Assassin to 50, a JK to 30ish and started a Bounty Hunter.

On my Assassin and JK i have to pop a med pack on nearly every pack with a silver elite in it and have to heal after every pull.

Fast forward to my Bounty Hunter, its perhaps the biggest EZ mode joke in comparison. No downtime at all, can easily take 2-3 packs of mobs at a time, and can easily over pull. On top of this, i solo 2 man quests with ease and solo most 4 man quests as well. These things are simply not possible on a melee class.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Gidoru

[Benfea]

OP...No offense intended, but one of your assumptions is a little precarious. Just because you got to level 50 doesn't mean you aren't (a little bit of a noob). This game has a steep learning curve, and lots of people get stuck in the same rotation they slowly built from level 10+...while other people (me, some others in this thread) are managing their skills, def. cds, ccs (ha), better...because, we aren't having the same frustrating issues. Or at least not as often.

 

Managing a Marauder/Sent against equal level opposition isn't simple...but who wants simple??

 

I love that it is a challenge @ times...when you get 2 strongs, or more than that...but I assure you, a Sent is up to it...

 

Push your playing to the next level, and things will work out. Study your character, make threads asking about rotations, get help - don't make threads like this because the majority of responses you get will be from other people who are at your level (i.e. having the same issues).

 

Transcend your levelling rotation, try every single combination...edit: mess with your spec even...

 

It's not that he is a noob, it's that we all are.

 

WoW is a very mature game. If you play class X, you know exactly how you need to be geared, the best skill tree builds, what skill rotation to use during combat, and a whole lot more. WoW players know this because a small number of combat mechanics gurus have worked things out to enormous detail, run everything through spreadsheets, and sucked all the fun out of the process.

 

The player community for this game has a long, long time to go before we get things figured out about our combat mechanics to the same degree. While I will say that at the lower levels jedi knights seem decidedly underpowered compared to the other three Republic classes, it's a little early to say anything definitively. As a player community, we're still learning the ropes.

 

And even if we are gimped, we can expect long and painful rounds of class balancing. Every MMORPG goes through it. Every class spends time as the gimp of the game, and every class spends time as the overpowered class all the other classes complain about. WoW is mature enough that many classes have been through these cycles several times. It will happen in this game just like it happens in every other game. Over time every class no matter what will alternate between being in the dog house and being overpowered in cycles that span months or even years.

 

Lastly, I'm not even sure if I'm going to stick with Jedi Knights. I plan on playing my current character through level 50, but right now I'm mostly doing it to experience the story. As soon as I hit level 50, it'll be time to level up another character of another class. Once I've experienced all 4 stories on the Republic side, if I'm still interested in the game by then, I will start thinking about joining a guild and experiencing end game content. That'll be the time that I decide on which class will become my "main", and from the looks of things most guilds are short on troopers and smugglers, and have an overabundance of jedi, particularly knights. Because of this, I think it is highly unlikely that my sentinel will remain my main at that point.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Benfea

[Tedroni]

Hi guys.

 

I don't know what happened exactly, but something clicked today and I can now kill just about anything I want on Ilum. All I did was use Saber Overload more with an older rotation. All my new fishing through different rotations didn't get me anywhere, but one random comment on a thread I don't remember said Sentinels should use Saber Overload as much as they could.

 

That's honestly the only thing I did differently and my game is back on par to what it was PvE-ing five levels ago... On-level strong-tier mob groups are still tough, but not invincible anymore.

 

For those who showed genuine interest/concern: thank you. I apologize if I seemed short tempered.

 

For those who said I was a terrible player and a n00b: PPPTTTHHHHHHPPPTTT!

 

Now... you can't tell me that the degree to which you use ONE skill can make *that* big of a difference and have the class *not* be broken and expect to be taken seriously.

 

More to the point, those of you who insist such, you *can* say the class isn't broken all you please, but that doesn't make it true. No one skill should be that kind of play-breaker.

 

Sentinels, if you're having trouble, consider using your Overload Saber a lot more. That will make your life easier, I think. Perhaps if they put that in the tooltip for that skill, Sentinels would be a lot less frustrated until BioWare fixes the class. I'm off to post this tidbit of good news on some other "Help, I'm a Sentinel" threads.

[Maellstrom]

Hi again Ted , Its Dain ( Fionn or one of my other 7 toons you played with )

 

Let me set some of you straight I played with Ted for a few years in another game and we often held different opinions but rationally discussed the state of our Class and what we thought would improve it without making it OP. I agree with him I think Sents stink compared to the other Jedi advanced class ( I presently have a sage and a shadow as well ).

Sentinel is like playing the game on permanent Hard Mode from Level 10 on. I dont care how elite you think you are, we are not talking top 10 percentile even about play style etc. We are talking the more average player who will actually pay the bulk of the money that supports this game and lets the elite play the game so it dont shut down. ( Oh and before you Flame your self out I am elite, and you dont even have to ask me I ll just straight up tell you. I am that good, I can be as elitist and annoying a SOB as anyone else )

Other Jedi Class's have issues but surviveability if they think they have an issues is nothing compared to the sentinel.

Fact 1 We require a dedicated healer to be playable while leveling for the average player. That is going to turn people off more then make them say oh yeah lets play that style.

Fact 2 We cant tank. I play on Harbinger and if you were to tell a level 50 Group I ll be Meat shield for you they would tell you to go reroll a trooper and call us when your 50, have a nice day .

Fact 3 DPS is not really all that high to make up for our lack of CC, lack of ability to take a hit, lack of ability to not stare at the screen wondering which of 27 buttons is not on cool down for the 10 seconds I have to kill mob A or call in repair bot. Do not make me laugh I have not once heard WE WANT A SENT FOR DPS OMG PLEASE for ....... , They dont want us period its more like oh crap I forgot to ask which class I am so sorry guys I did not know it was a Sent. Yes that has been said in group chats before they kick out the Sent including mine.

 

We do not be reworked that hard but how about the same deal as shadows at least, if we want to make a Sent tank we get a Real skill tree, and real Stance that actually allows us to a little , and yes that means we do LESS dps just like those others do. The common answer of only spec Skill tree A ( yes watchman fans that means you ) is always wrong when other class's can actively choose to play another skill tree and have fun and enjoy their toon , and think that hey yeah I want to continue to pay money.

Its been buggy , overly hard, and an unwanted class and I might actually care about PVP and raids on a sent if they make it reasonable for the level of difficulty the class truly is compared to any other ( accept I guess Marauders the Imp version ).

 

Ted dont let them get you down, we went threw this in the other game when they finally threw us dogs a bone, only to break us aagain lol.

[WickedJediKnight]

...and Kira for everything else, not because you are tempted to put it in her pooper...

 

That was very crude, but true. They must have used the same talent for Kira that "enhanced" Miranda. Too bad they couldn't have enhanced her ability to keep my *** alive during a fight too. I'd love to roll with Kira, but her blue geared DPS is enough to burn down (on level) 2 strongs + 2 norms in enough time that I don't die first. Doc, along with watchman heals, and some effective use of Awe, pacify, kick, FL, FS, rebuke, and finally blade ward only as needed will scrape me by in about 90% of these types of fights. Mind you, my dps output is usually enough to pull any single target elite off the tank regularly unless I purposely hold back a bit. It's a lot to manage, and I don't get to watch the actual fights much.

 

I was doing the destroy the rooftop turret class quests on Corellia, and while in exactly one of these fights, a cloaked patrolling strong Sith with spinning strikes spam aggroed on Doc, and it was over. No amount of CC or damage mitigation would have won that fight. I made a couple tactical errors once I hit that pucker moment, but the only difference would have been finishing off one of those strongs. Dead is still dead.

 

FWIW, I had been doing each planets quests in succession along with the class quests until I finished Hoth. I decided that since I was already so close to 50, I would just finish my story, then go back and do the planet quests. Well, that worked fine until I hit Corellia, and for the first time my story quests were on level (47-48). I had never had it easy, but I went from surviving nearly every class quest fine, to dying 3-4 times per mission. Guess that's my fault for thinking 47-48 meant a 48 should be able to do it.

[Nukeo]

Maybe its my experience thus far, my main is a 50 trooper, number one alt is a lvl 32 Jedi Sentinel, his DPS to me at least is incredible. But you have to focus on certain abilities, I honestly can't name them off the top of my head, in PvP I do know it is difficult to stack up to 50 to use special abilities.

 

I do recall one ability master strike is idiotic imho. Specs and stances mention acrobatic such and such, but you have an ability which requires you and the enemy stand still... Interesting.

 

I think the class needs some work, currently mines stuck at 32 as he can't progress in his story anymore and I don't feel like moving on until its fixed.

[Gobgrot]

I leveled at ranged, never had issues but once or twice, and simply using CDs better and working my rotation helped alot

 

Ive been reading this post and I have to say without any attempt to be mean to you but are you a troll, a jerk or just an ******e. You keep telling the OP how wonderful you are at playing the class but not once given any positive criticism or advice, just a vague idea of what you do. If your really playing the class and arent having any problems, tell the OP how to do it.

[Gobgrot]

I leveled at ranged, never had issues but once or twice, and simply using CDs better and working my rotation helped alot

 

Ive been reading this post and I have to say without any attempt to be mean to you but are you a troll, a jerk or just an ******e. You keep telling the OP how wonderful you are at playing the class but not once given any positive criticism or advice, just a vague idea of what you do. If your really playing the class and arent having any problems, tell the OP how to do it.

[Edensexile]

I used T7 to level until I got Doc. I have no problems. Big thing is to take out the ranged standard mobs first, then focus on the Strong mobs.

 

Watchman is the best for leveling IMO.

 

ALWAYS keep your burns up, they heal you.

 

Zen causes Cauterize to crit, more heals.

 

USE DOC. But turn off his CC/DPS abilities, you do enough damage.

 

Watchman has lots of interrupts. We can Force Leap in Melee range. We can Statis to interrupt while burns heal up. Kick the fool, in rotation, these are almost always available.

 

Use defensive CDs at all times. Theyre there for a reason. We have a 30 second 20% damage reduction if youre getting hit constantly... which you are.

 

PVP you get focused, you die. But so does every class. Atleast we can pop the Force buff and get off some cheap shots at the end.

 

BIND YOUR KEYS. Clickers and keyboard turners WILL FAIL as a sentinel.

 

Upgrade gear constantly. WE NEED IT TO. We dont have a choice. Just do it. Hilts especially.

 

Enjoy being one of the few Sentinels you see with skill. And rejoice when you see another Sentinel with skill in a WZ, you have a bond that many can not share.

[Telgath]

For those folks that want to post on how bad the JK is I will counter-post saying not true.

 

The class can be quite effective. For example, in the Illum or Belsavia dailies a typical challenge would be an Elite with a strong and a weak (or normal). I can regularly solo these with Doc. I have yet to be turned away from an OP. This is not a troll or a brag. It is the simple truth. But it is not simple or easy.

 

Many posts have been made detailing just how to pull these fights off. So I will let methods and "rotations" go. But if you think that a magic "rotation" will save you. Well, be prepared for disappointment.

 

JK is not a "3 button" trooper class, but more like a "20 button" very busy class. I could not hope to pull this off without help. Such as a Logitech G700 mouse and a Logitech G15 keyboard.

 

The question raised, that I think is a good one, is it fair to ask the average player to go through all this to be effective?

 

So, do we beef the class up, or make it more playable?

 

I would hate to see the class ripped up, or become overpowered. I enjoy the class just as it is. If that makes me elite, then so be it.

[me_unknown]

I used T7 to level until I got Doc. I have no problems. Big thing is to take out the ranged standard mobs first, then focus on the Strong mobs.

 

Watchman is the best for leveling IMO.

 

ALWAYS keep your burns up, they heal you.

 

Zen causes Cauterize to crit, more heals.

 

don't waste your zen when you have cauterize! skip cauterize if you have zen available and use it with 3 stacks of overload saber.

[Srelik]

I have had some trouble during class quests as a jedi knight. A lot of people claim that it is the hardest class to play as, but why does my sith assassin die way more times than than my jedi knight if it really is the hardest class to play?

[Venator-Falco]

There could be a lot of factors in that.

I have a L21 Shadow Alt, and it has been easier than my Sentinel, But is that because the class is easier in truth or that I have learned to judge risk better?

What is the assassin’s first companion? For the Shadow it is the Tranny Tank, so this makes it pretty easy in a lot of ways.

[Tedroni]

Hi again Ted , Its Dain ( Fionn or one of my other 7 toons you played with )

 

Let me set some of you straight I played with Ted for a few years in another game and we often held different opinions but rationally discussed the state of our Class and what we thought would improve it without making it OP. I agree with him I think Sents stink compared to the other Jedi advanced class ( I presently have a sage and a shadow as well ).

Sentinel is like playing the game on permanent Hard Mode from Level 10 on. I dont care how elite you think you are, we are not talking top 10 percentile even about play style etc. We are talking the more average player who will actually pay the bulk of the money that supports this game and lets the elite play the game so it dont shut down. ( Oh and before you Flame your self out I am elite, and you dont even have to ask me I ll just straight up tell you. I am that good, I can be as elitist and annoying a SOB as anyone else )

Other Jedi Class's have issues but surviveability if they think they have an issues is nothing compared to the sentinel.

Fact 1 We require a dedicated healer to be playable while leveling for the average player. That is going to turn people off more then make them say oh yeah lets play that style.

Fact 2 We cant tank. I play on Harbinger and if you were to tell a level 50 Group I ll be Meat shield for you they would tell you to go reroll a trooper and call us when your 50, have a nice day .

Fact 3 DPS is not really all that high to make up for our lack of CC, lack of ability to take a hit, lack of ability to not stare at the screen wondering which of 27 buttons is not on cool down for the 10 seconds I have to kill mob A or call in repair bot. Do not make me laugh I have not once heard WE WANT A SENT FOR DPS OMG PLEASE for ....... , They dont want us period its more like oh crap I forgot to ask which class I am so sorry guys I did not know it was a Sent. Yes that has been said in group chats before they kick out the Sent including mine.

 

We do not be reworked that hard but how about the same deal as shadows at least, if we want to make a Sent tank we get a Real skill tree, and real Stance that actually allows us to a little , and yes that means we do LESS dps just like those others do. The common answer of only spec Skill tree A ( yes watchman fans that means you ) is always wrong when other class's can actively choose to play another skill tree and have fun and enjoy their toon , and think that hey yeah I want to continue to pay money.

Its been buggy , overly hard, and an unwanted class and I might actually care about PVP and raids on a sent if they make it reasonable for the level of difficulty the class truly is compared to any other ( accept I guess Marauders the Imp version ).

 

Ted dont let them get you down, we went threw this in the other game when they finally threw us dogs a bone, only to break us aagain lol.

 

Hi, Dain! Good to hear from you and I hope you're enjoying the game.

 

I went ahead and highlighted what I thought were your most important points.

 

Elite players are nice to have around if they're willing to teach or even if they only hang around for average players to look to and admire their skills (as long as they're not jerks about it lol).

 

But EA's bread and butter will come from the average player, (read: people who want to play as a Jedi Knight 'cause that's what they saw in the movies and, as ThinkGeek.com says "You're never too old to want to be Luke.") and not the elites who will play through new content in the first 24 hours and not play/pay again 'til the next quarter's update.

 

If the most popular class is also the most difficult, that will drive average players away. Without those average players, BioWare/Lucas Arts won't even make back the money they invested in development/hardware.

 

Perhaps Combat (as the least-favorite child) could be re-worked into an avoidance/parry-tank tree (like Ninjas from an MMO in the dark and distant past). Shadows can tank using armor buffs and bubble-like effects. Guardians and Troopers seem to be the more typical "damage-sponge" tanks. I've even heard of Smugglers using cover as a tanking mechanic for ranged mobs, so an avoidance tank would be the kind we're missing. And since avoidance tanks generally don't take hits very well, a Champion-tier mob (or a raid-level boss, since they're almost guaranteed to land their hits) would still likely require a more traditional tank, or two healers.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Tedroni