GothicSaint Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Yes, it is too good. Hear me out. 50% Damage reduction. ON ALL DAMAGE. We can't even mitigate that much damage on ourselves. Now add that into a tank who knows how to use taunts, both single target and AoE. That is 80% reduction in damage for at least 6 seconds.(assuming they stack without DR) I'm sorry but it's just too good. I laugh at the amount of reduction I can give someone right now. It's absurd. Guarded healers are a nightmare to bring down. Separating a tank from the healer is no easy task seeing as how most tanks have gap closers for both enemy AND ally(which hilariously enough the ally one is even MORE damage reduction.) Guard should be changed to 20-30%. That will give you 50-60% mitigation with a taunt active. I had an idea earlier that was a bit half baked but the thought was to ALSO, while nerfing Guard, add/tack into an existing talent into all tank AC trees that increases their guard to 35-40%. This will make actual tank specced tanks more valuable then a DPS "tank" class swapping stances and using guard. Edit: People don't seem to understand the second part of this change. Let me state: This is to make DPS Specced Tanks lose the ability to tank as well as TRUE TANK SPECCED TANKS. The Tank specced ones will lose at most 10% of their current Guard. This is to help give real tanks a role in the game. Thoughts? Suggestions? *****es/Complaints? I don't care what you do to it, just don't take away my 3 or 4 extra medals for pushing that button at the beginning of a match. That's my only award winning skill and I feel like a PvP god when I see those medals for protection. Cuz we know I couldnt kill anything ,might as well be holding a rusty spoon ( that's right Mister, you better step back ,you might get tetanus in a week or two if I hit you with this) instead of a lightsabre Edited January 31, 2012 by GothicSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgonKara Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have 2 questions. 1. Are there actually any damage spec players that use tank stance/guard? 2. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airoper Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) MEH! dont worry about this thread hes just a sad player pretending to be a tank on forums to get us nerfed as he has no skill Edited January 31, 2012 by Airoper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have 2 questions. 1. Are there actually any damage spec players that use tank stance/guard? 2. Why? Rage specced Juggs use it all the time. Hardly have Rage issues and increased self mitigation. Also can then swap to Gaurd a ball carrier/healer without losing rage and earn fast tank medals. I do it but I don't sit in soresu because Vengeance is Rage hungry and I need that stance to keep going at full efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airoper Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 yes "Darth Allister Roper" ven zallow rppvp server thats me & cause it give me utility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phixler Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have 2 questions. 1. Are there actually any damage spec players that use tank stance/guard? 2. Why? I do actually, mainly because the damage bullets are only a 5% damage increase, where as the tank bullets increase armor, defense, reduce damage taken, proc a DoT that snares (If specced), and allows me to use guard. -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirin Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Apparently no one agrees. Here's my opinion: The mitigation on Guard is 50% to give people a real reason to focus on the tank instead of just ganking whoever he's guarding. The philosophy is that tanks can make people reconsider going after healers/DPS by sharing damage and adding mitigation via taunts. One of the only intelligent things BW's PvP crew seems to have done has been giving tanks a true role in PvP, even if they did make tank stats next to useless. The reason you see DPS in tank stances with Guard is (at least in my case) because Defense, Shield, and Absorb are not nearly as useful PvP-wise as in PvE. So really, a better way to make true tanks excel at tanking in PvP would be to tweak the mechanics regarding Def, Shield, Absorb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modjoconcarne Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 When i see a non-tank using guard on someone the only thing i see is : EASY DOUBLE KILL ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothicSaint Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Rage specced Juggs use it all the time. Hardly have Rage issues and increased self mitigation. Also can then swap to Gaurd a ball carrier/healer without losing rage and earn fast tank medals. I do it but I don't sit in soresu because Vengeance is Rage hungry and I need that stance to keep going at full efficiency. Your starved all the time if your in rage spec with guard on and Dps goes down the crapper as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airoper Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 tanks are fine in this game they are balance with pros & cons to your choice of play style & gear selection. my advice get BW to put effort into cross server WZs & pug vs premade problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichijin Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have 2 questions. 1. Are there actually any damage spec players that use tank stance/guard? 2. Why? 1. Yes, you generate less focus sure but in certain situations its worth it 2 -Medals -To save lives, the longer your teammates live the better your team does -Soresu + personal shield increases survivability significantly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It really isn't. I don't know if you play a tank or not, but about 80% of the DPS Juggs, mostly Rage but some Vengeance like me, play in Soresu form as there is no damage loss(no penalty rather). That is not what that stance is made for. I figured my mitigation was wrong, most things have DR but I'm not a math wizard nor do I know what the exact formula they would use is. I'm really not understanding why people are opposed to DPS SPECCED Tanks having a less effective Guard then the TANK SPECCED Tank. This would only promote picking tanks for groups. When DPS specced Guardians are actually getting something significant for being DPS specced guardians then we can talk about this. Right now it's barely worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 When DPS specced Guardians are actually getting something significant for being DPS specced guardians then we can talk about this. Right now it's barely worth it. Are you serious? Rage/Focus smashing is arguably the strongest hit in the game atm with proper gear/boosts on AND it's AoE. My Vengeance Jugg doesn't hit as hard but I'm no slouch either on single targets...I'd be doing better if I could get a damn Champ/BM saber though...*sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheeling Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I always thought the Taunts should have a catch. 30% damage reduction to anyone other than yourself. However, if you're attacked by someone you taunted, they do an extra 20% or so damage to you. That would prevent Taunts from being "lul look at you struggle" abilities with such a short CD. Plus, it makes sense. Someone "taunts" you, you get mad and do extra damage to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesperr Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Troll OP. First - tanks arent tanky enough (confirmed by BW) so they die and guard doesnt help them, second - learn2interrupt and pressure both targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeltalon Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 /disagree no point in having tanks otherwise QFT. What, am I going to use my pitiful DPS and non-existent DoT capability to be effective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbyt Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 its the whole point of a tank if your 2 noob not to attack the tank & try to kill the guarded player you deserver to die a slow death as the tank chips away at you! Yeah good luck trying to kill a tank while they're being healed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockerz Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I think it's fine. In organized pvp you will probably want to bring at least one tank. It's not like juggs can do any thing else better than tanking in pvp. Thus, unless bw wants to give juggs some thing else in return for the loss of Guardian I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbyt Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have 2 questions. 1. Are there actually any damage spec players that use tank stance/guard? 2. Why? I do it just enough to get three easy medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obbu Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It really isn't. I don't know if you play a tank or not, but about 80% of the DPS Juggs, mostly Rage but some Vengeance like me, play in Soresu form as there is no damage loss(no penalty rather). That is not what that stance is made for. I figured my mitigation was wrong, most things have DR but I'm not a math wizard nor do I know what the exact formula they would use is. I'm really not understanding why people are opposed to DPS SPECCED Tanks having a less effective Guard then the TANK SPECCED Tank. This would only promote picking tanks for groups. Well, i have not played a juggernaut specifically - but if you are a powertech for example: lets say you are pyrotech spec - you cannot run combustible gas cylinder, and therefore all the talents buffing combustible gas cylinder procs etc become void. Guard is only available if you are running In that case, you are definitely losing DPS viability, in order to run guard on someone. But yeah, i haven't played all the specs of all the tank classes - would be good if you could clarify why rage does not lose abilities/key talents if they run soresu What specifically do they lose? Why is this not a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nininininja Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Reading through this thread makes me realize how illiterate alot of the posters are here. He's saying he wants guard nerfed on DPS SPECCED JUGGS NOT TANK SPECCED ONES. Hopefully two people typing in all caps can get the attention of these trolls. What are they teaching these kids in school nowadays? As it is right now dpsers can deal twice as much damage as me AND guard? What the hell am I doing in tank spec? I've since respecced rage as I can guard just as well and jump in and burst down weakened targets for easy kills. Nerfing guard by default and having a talent in the tank tree that bring it back to its normal effectiveness would be a nice change. Make it at least 11 points up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakarn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Soresu is just a stance and the guard ability comes with it, no matter what spec you are. The 6% damage loss is minor in the stance change. It's not a 6% damage loss. It's around 20-25%, namely: - 1 Focus from every finisher - 1 Focus from every strike Basically it amounts to 1 focus lost per every useful GCD where you would normally gain Focus. Soresu form cripples the damage of Guardians/Juggernauts if you compare it to Shien form and slightly less cripples it compared to Shii-Cho form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakarn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Reading through this thread makes me realize how illiterate alot of the posters are here. He's saying he wants guard nerfed on DPS SPECCED JUGGS NOT TANK SPECCED ONES. Hopefully two people typing in all caps can get the attention of these trolls. What are they teaching these kids in school nowadays? As it is right now dpsers can deal twice as much damage as me AND guard? What the hell am I doing in tank spec? I've since respecced rage as I can guard just as well and jump in and burst down weakened targets for easy kills. Nerfing guard by default and having a talent in the tank tree that bring it back to its normal effectiveness would be a nice change. Make it at least 11 points up too. Nonsense. What they need to do is make tanking stats actually work in PvP. Then tanks, rather than DPSing tanks become the natural choice for Guard. However you then need to hugely compensate Guardians and Juggernauts in PvP because right now Guard is The Best Thing We Can Do, and we are extremely easy to focus down. If you want to make a significant impact in Guardian/Juggernaut survivability, swap around Hilt Strike and Immortal. Putting the third defensive cooldown out of the range of Vigilence PvP builds will both make Plasma Brand more valuable and make speccing Defense more viable for PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 im not going to read all the posts but why not just limit guard to the defense trees for thank specs? just wondering, i do feel its a little idiotic for a dps to have this ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obbu Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 im not going to read all the posts but why not just limit guard to the defense trees for thank specs? just wondering, i do feel its a little idiotic for a dps to have this ability. As has already been stated, DPS-specced tanks who want to use guard have to swap into tank stance to use it. When you are in tank stance you lose your key bonuses from your DPS stances, considerably impacting your ability to DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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