Please, Don't Roll on Items for Another Class in Your Team

[sjmc]

If it is not for your class you simply can't use it, why are you needing it? If it is not for your class and you somehow CAN use it, you are gimping your own character. So it does not benefit your character unless you are indeed selling it or ripping the mods out of it, Mods that are probably leaned to benefit the class you took it from.

You don't need to run flashpoints to get mods. In any event, if I win a not-for-my-class orange piece that I can wear, I can swap out 1 or more of the mods with what I already have on. Those mods might be able to go to my companion and upgrade her -- upgrading me even more (I get an appearance upgrade and a companion upgrade).

Also if I helped you beat that boss and you are needing outside of your class I hope to get something better than "I'm going to use it. Deal with it. I'm not even going to tell you how I'm going to use it, I just...will find a way to."

If I press need, you are welcome to ask me what I need it for. It is for my companion, I would tell you.

[sjmc]

Now you're saying that someone who can get upgrades from a FP is not geared sufficiently for completing it.

No, I was saying that you should not require dropped loot from a flashpoint in order to complete it. This was to the person that said their need was greater because they could use the loot in the current flashpoint. Edited February 1, 2012 by sjmc

[Crash-X]

How do you think I am going to use it to benefit my character in its current form if I am not going to sell it or give it away or RE or throw it away or let it sit in my bags or bank?

 

There is only one option - I am going to equip it so it will benefit my character.

 

If I decide looks is what benefits my character, then why does that matter to you?

 

If I decide companion stats is what benefits my character, then why does that matter to you?

 

You do not own the item, so why do you have any say at all about the item?

 

If someone asks for your help to get something they want (IE: a ball), do you tell them you will only help them if they will use the item in a way that will make you happy???

 

Or do they get to use that ball in anyway that will make them happy?

 

This is what you are not getting though. You are not benefitting your character.

 

If it is orange gear that has dropped. You can't wear it. It may be lit up but look at that little red text at the bottom that tells you "Hey, you can't wear this."

 

If it is not orange gear than look at the stats. Yeah some of those stats are completely useless for your character.

 

Ummm are you asking why does it matter if you are needing for your companion? Maybe because I'm in your group? Does your companion need that item? If your companion doesn't get that item will they care? I sure will and I'd be one less healer you'd group with for sure.

 

Once it drops and I'm the only sage in the group that item is mine. If a non-sage item drops I roll greed and let someone else that needs it wants it.

 

In your example I am giving up something and getting nothing back. In the game the entire group is working together, they each have different classes most likely. I don't see whats so hard with rolling need on things that your character can use and rolling greed on everything else.

[Eternalnight]

No, I was saying that you should not require dropped loot from a flashpoint in order to complete it. This was to the person that said their need was greater because they could use the loot in the current flashpoint.

 

Never said anything that in any way suggest that completing the flashpoint was in any way dependent on using the item.

 

I can complete the flashpoint without it just like you can go on leveling with your companion without it.

 

Despite of all that, since I would still be able to use it both already in the flashpoint and after it, and you would only be able to use it after it, then I had one use for it that you did not have. Therefore I had more use for it. Therefore I needed it more

[Crash-X]

You don't need to run flashpoints to get mods. In any event, if I win a not-for-my-class orange piece that I can wear, I can swap out 1 or more of the mods with what I already have on. Those mods might be able to go to my companion and upgrade her -- upgrading me even more (I get an appearance upgrade and a companion upgrade).

If I press need, you are welcome to ask me what I need it for. It is for my companion, I would tell you.

 

If you win a not for your class orange piece the odds are you can't wear it. I've yet to see an orange piece that is not social gear that is open for all classes to wear. Bioware did this specifically because they want Sith Lords to look like Sith Lords and Bounty Hunters to look like Bounty Hunters....unless it is social gear...

 

Well the person I was responding to wouldn't even give a reason outside that they would use it. If you are needing for a companion I believe you should say so before starting the group.

 

One guy did this, he goes "Hey if no one needs it could I need for my companion?" everyone said sure. What happened? He got all his stuff for his companion and everyone got their class gear that dropped.

[crica]

You are not benefitting your character.

 

I am not getting anything out of the deal.

 

I decide what benefits my character (IE: what I value the most in a video game I pay to have fun in), not anyone else.

 

I still do not understand why you think you get to decide what other players value the most in a video game?

 

You are getting exactly what everyone else gets - an equal chance to win the gear you want for your character.

Edited February 1, 2012 by crica

[sjmc]

Does your companion need that item? If your companion doesn't get that item will they care?

My companion will care as much as your character will.

 

I will certainly care when I try to fight a gold star mob and die because my companion's armor wasn't good enough or her techstaff wasn't powerful enough. My companion's armor has a larger effect on my survivability than my own, since she takes most of the hits.

[sjmc]

If you win a not for your class orange piece the odds are you can't wear it. I've yet to see an orange piece that is not social gear that is open for all classes to wear. Bioware did this specifically because they want Sith Lords to look like Sith Lords and Bounty Hunters to look like Bounty Hunters....unless it is social gear...

If an item is class-restricted, then there is no point pressing need on it if it is not your class. You can't wear it and companions don't have a class, so cannot wear it either.

 

I don't think anyone here is arguing that a Sith Lord should be able to roll need on a class-restricted bounty hunter item.

[Crash-X]

I decide what benefits my character (IE: what I value the most in a video game I pay to have fun in), not anyone else.

 

I still do not understand why you think you get to decide what other players value the most in a video game?

 

You are getting exactly what everyone else gets - an equal chance to win the gear you want for your character.

 

Lol you still run around the fact that your character is not benefiting from that piece of gear no matter how you slice it.

 

I don't understand why I should run FP with someone that feels they should roll need on whatever as long as it 'benefits their character'

[Grecanis]

I'm sorry but that doesn't work.

 

If it is not for your class you simply can't use it, why are you needing it? If it is not for your class and you somehow CAN use it, you are gimping your own character. So it does not benefit your character unless you are indeed selling it or ripping the mods out of it, Mods that are probably leaned to benefit the class you took it from.

 

Also if I helped you beat that boss and you are needing outside of your class I hope to get something better than "I'm going to use it. Deal with it. I'm not even going to tell you how I'm going to use it, I just...will find a way to."

 

I wouldn't waste your breath ..thier definition of need will allways trump yours no matter how logical your argument is.

 

Just remove the need button.

[crica]

Ummm are you asking why does it matter if you are needing for your companion? Maybe because I'm in your group?

 

What does you being in the group have to do with it?

 

That still does not give you the right to decide why I want to run the FP, does it?

 

It only gives you the right to decide why you run the FP, doesn't it?

 

If I asked you to help me run a FP I would offer you an equal chance to win any gear you wanted for your character, along with everyone else in the group.

 

If you asked me to help you run a FP, what would you offer me?

[sjmc]

On orange items, there seem to be two sides to the discussion:

 

One side considers orange item to be a collection of mods (that have value) that come with a bonus customizable armor piece that has no inherent value. You should be able to roll need to get the mods, but not because you want the armor. If one person wants the mods and another wants the armor, the person who wants the mods should get a 100% chance and the other player should get a 0% chance.

 

The other side considers orange items to have value in their own right. The mods also have value individually. You should be able to roll need if you want the mods, and you should be able to roll need if you want the armor. If one person wants the mods and another wants the armor, they would each get a 50% chance.

 

Does anyone here not fit into one of those categories? (please ignore the whole companion issue for this question)

 

EDIT: I think everyone agrees that if the orange armor piece says "must be sage", then only sages should roll. The discussion is around items that don't specifically list a class.

Edited February 1, 2012 by sjmc

[Crash-X]

If an item is class-restricted, then there is no point pressing need on it if it is not your class. You can't wear it and companions don't have a class, so cannot wear it either.

 

I don't think anyone here is arguing that a Sith Lord should be able to roll need on a class-restricted bounty hunter item.

 

Well it sure seems Crica is saying that s/he should be able to roll need on anything, even orange class-restricted gear because that gear benefits them somehow.

 

Look back at all my post. It's always been about class gear. To me if I'm a sage and sage gear drops and someone that is not a sage needs on it you've just slapped me right in the face. Thanks.

[crica]

Lol you still run around the fact that your character is not benefiting from that piece of gear no matter how you slice it.

 

I don't understand why I should run FP with someone that feels they should roll need on whatever as long as it 'benefits their character'

 

That is not a fact, that is your opinion that you want me to share.

 

I don't share it.

 

Looks and companion stats benefit my character to ME.

 

That is my opinion and it is what I value in the game, along with my class's looks and stats.

 

Why wouldn't you help run a FP that offers you an equal chance to win ANY gear you want for your character?

 

Do you not like having the same chance to win the gear you want as everyone else who helped run the FP?

[Crash-X]

I wouldn't waste your breath ..thier definition of need will allways trump yours no matter how logical your argument is.

 

Just remove the need button.

 

Seems like it. I think this is more of a "You don't control how I play!" thing...

 

What does you being in the group have to do with it?

 

That still does not give you the right to decide why I want to run the FP, does it?

 

It only gives you the right to decide why you run the FP, doesn't it?

 

If I asked you to help me run a FP I would offer you an equal chance to win any gear you wanted for your character, along with everyone else in the group.

 

If you asked me to help you run a FP, what would you offer me?

 

Me being in the group...you mean you shouted for 40 mins in chat for a healer and I have no say in loot rules?

 

Well you should at least tell me you're going to need on everything you want. That way I can decide not to run the FP with you.

 

I've said it a bunch of times. If your class gear drops you get a better chance to get it. I'll happily and unselfishly will roll greed and say 'Congrats!' and hope the next drop will be for me. I thought most players were like this, seems I have yet to run into the type that will need on the gear for my class.

[Kresharth]

Don't get confused by "but it's your companion, not your personal toon".

 

It's his SOLO and DUO and 3-man experience that's affected by the equipment on the companion.

 

Now you see that he feels he "needs" it for those experiences. Question is, do you feel that him wanting to play solo/duo/3-man as well as flashpoints is "greedy"?

[Crash-X]

On orange items, there seem to be two sides to the discussion:

 

One side considers orange item to be a collection of mods (that have value) that come with a bonus customizable armor piece that has no inherent value. You should be able to roll need to get the mods, but not because you want the armor. If one person wants the mods and another wants the armor, the person who wants the mods should get a 100% chance and the other player should get a 0% chance.

 

The other side considers orange items to have value in their own right. The mods also have value individually. You should be able to roll need if you want the mods, and you should be able to roll need if you want the armor. If one person wants the mods and another wants the armor, they would each get a 50% chance.

 

Does anyone here not fit into one of those categories? (please ignore the whole companion issue for this question)

 

EDIT: I think everyone agrees that if the orange armor piece says "must be sage", then only sages should roll. The discussion is around items that don't specifically list a class.

 

To me orange items have their own value.

 

Okay lets see...

 

That is not a fact, that is your opinion that you want me to share.

 

I don't share it.

 

Looks and companion stats benefit my character to ME.

 

That is my opinion and it is what I value in the game, along with my class's looks and stats.

 

Why wouldn't you help run a FP that offers you an equal chance to win ANY gear you want for your character?

 

Do you not like having the same chance to win the gear you want as everyone else who helped run the FP?

 

So if an orange piece of gear drops and I am the only Sage in the group and I roll need, will you do the same?

[crica]

Seems like it. I think this is more of a "You don't control how I play!" thing...

 

 

 

Me being in the group...you mean you shouted for 40 mins in chat for a healer and I have no say in loot rules?

 

Well you should at least tell me you're going to need on everything you want. That way I can decide not to run the FP with you.

 

I've said it a bunch of times. If your class gear drops you get a better chance to get it. I'll happily and unselfishly will roll greed and say 'Congrats!' and hope the next drop will be for me. I thought most players were like this, seems I have yet to run into the type that will need on the gear for my class.

 

Again, I already told you what I am offering you if I ask you help me run a FP - an equal chance to win any gear you want for your character that happens to drop - just like everyone else in the group.

 

What are you going to offer me if you ask me to help run a FP?

 

You say gear for my class - what if I don't need any gear for my class?

 

What will you offer me then?

[Eternalnight]

And anyway if needing for companions is allowed, it does not make everyone equal.

 

Smuggler will need for his companions all the gear a vanguard trooper can use

Smuggler will need for his companions nearly all the gear trooper can use for his companions

Trooper does not need for his companions anything a smuggler can use.

Trooper does not need any of the gear 2 of smugglers companions can use

 

Jedi knight can need a blaster rifle for one of his companions

Trooper does not need a lightsaber for any of his companions

 

And so on...

Classes are not balanced in this at all.

[crica]

So if an orange piece of gear drops and I am the only Sage in the group and I roll need, will you do the same?

 

Will I do the same what?

 

I will tell you that if you want to use it, roll Need, just like anyone else in the group who helped.

 

In my groups, everyone has an equal chance to win any gear that happens to drop that they want to use.

 

What do players get in your groups?

 

Do they get to decide what they want to use, or do they have to let you decide what they get to use?

Edited February 1, 2012 by crica

[Crash-X]

Will I do the same what?

 

I will tell you that if you want to use it, roll Need, just like anyone else in the group who helped.

 

In my groups, everyone has an equal chance to win any gear that happens to drop that they want to use.

 

What do players get in your groups?

 

Do they get to decide what they want to use, or do they have to let you decide what they get to use?

 

Will you roll for a sage orange item if there is a sage in your group? Can you answer this with a yes or no instead of a "Benefit my character." reply?

 

Here is the thing...certain items CAN'T be used by certain people. Certain people have more use for certain items. Thus the NGP system was created.

 

In my groups everyone gets equal chances on every item that they can use...

[Crash-X]

And anyway if needing for companions is allowed, it does not make everyone equal.

 

Smuggler will need for his companions all the gear a vanguard trooper can use

Smuggler will need for his companions nearly all the gear trooper can use for his companions

Trooper does not need for his companions anything a smuggler can use.

Trooper does not need any of the gear 2 of smugglers companions can use

 

Jedi knight can need a blaster rifle for one of his companions

Trooper does not need a lightsaber for any of his companions

 

And so on...

Classes are not balanced in this at all.

 

That is the problem I have with needing for companions.

 

If everyone did this then I'm sure you'll start getting Troopers not wanting to group with Smugglers.

 

Usually though people that are getting gear for their companions are groups of friends that have done the content, have their gear, and are just picking up extra stuff and everyone rolling greed and seeing what they can get.

[Grecanis]

Seems like it. I think this is more of a "You don't control how I play!" thing...

 

I'm tellin ya ...your beating your head against a heavily over-inflated wall of need.

 

...and it won't budge.

 

It's obvious that three choices are one too many. One needs to be removed.

[crica]

Will you roll for a sage orange item if there is a sage in your group? Can you answer this with a yes or no instead of a "Benefit my character." reply?

 

Here is the thing...certain items CAN'T be used by certain people. Certain people have more use for certain items. Thus the NGP system was created.

 

In my groups everyone gets equal chances on every item that they can use...

 

Yes, I only roll Need on items I can and will use - IE: I WILL equip any Need roll item that I win - and everyone else in my groups gets to do so as well.

Edited February 1, 2012 by crica

[Kresharth]

Will you roll for a sage orange item if there is a sage in your group? Can you answer this with a yes or no instead of a "Benefit my character." reply?

 

Here is the thing...certain items CAN'T be used by certain people. Certain people have more use for certain items. Thus the NGP system was created.

 

In my groups everyone gets equal chances on every item that they can use...

 

I believe he was very clear on this.

 

YES if he wants the item.

 

Now will you answer him on his question - do people get to make their own choices in your group or do they only get to roll when YOU say so.

 

"Own choice" / "My choice" as answer please...