face_hindu Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Alright, so the main thread is full of people who support the LFD tool and i'm lazy. Could an anti-lfd'er please summarize all their points, please? Because of this: lol. considering I am a healer and the only reason anyone gets a single piece of loot at all is because i keep everyone alive. funny statement bra. i enjoy exposing the immaturity in people, it shows how weak and pathetic they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeDudeIsanub Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm just being less hypocrite. Honeyed words don't mean crap when the intent is clearly about dismissing other's opinions by strawmanning. You're showing a lot of bitterness and close-mindedness to a simple, reasonable train of thought. How regrettable. I also wish to point out that HalusW made a very good point about single-server tools and their limited usefulness. I'm not advocating the WoW standard, but something needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmybob Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It removes the whole social and game part of actually making a group. It destroys involvement in the game (convenience button, push it and magically everything else is taken care of for you !), it destroys the social part (no need to interact, you just let the tool does the work), it destroys the actual point of a MMO. Just look at WoW to see how it basically ruined the community. The point of an MMO? Who are you or anyone else to tell me how I should play MY game?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeDudeIsanub Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 The point of an MMO? Who are you or anyone else to tell me how I should play MY game?! This! If you don't want to use the tool, feel free to spam "LFG TARAL V MANDO" in general. Don't try to make us follow your example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notsensible Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I facepalm when people defend a non-LFD with it not promoting social play. A couple immediate things come to mind. The first is, if making groups now is difficult because people don't care to sit around for hours, it means everyone is soloing... what's social about that? Second, the only difference in terms of social aptitude is the "LFM/LFG" portion you see in general chat. After the invites are sent, there's no required degree of chatting involved that an LFD wouldn't have. Another thing I saw was someone mentioning the anonymity promotes jerkiness. Anonymity would only exist if it were cross-server LFD, I don't think anyone in this thread is asking for that. Also, LFD ruined WoW's community? Use that as a defense, and you clearly don't understand what you're saying. Guilds are still being created/joined, people are generally having fun, people that would socialize still are, so in what way is it ruined? Maybe it was ruined for you because you encountered the D-bag that's found anywhere (RL, online forums, games, etc), but most of us can actually stomach them usually. If you can't, and you just ragequit instantly because a mostly positive tool was introduced, I imagine you have sharp objects readily available for you to escape life with. I'm not for or against an LFD, but take a neutral approach to things (and not a biased one) and you'll start to see positives and negatives. Remember that the main argument against LFD is the social aspects, not the gameplay direction. In WoW, the mentality changed and LFD sped up the process for it to become a race for gear (both good and bad). But if you were playing it back in the day, as well as being attentive to change, you'd know that LFD wasn't the cause. The direction/mentality changed long before LFD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkalevil Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) You're showing a lot of bitterness and close-mindedness to a simple, reasonable train of thought. How regrettable. If you consider a strawman to be a reasonable answer, it says more about you than it says about me. The point of an MMO? Who are you or anyone else to tell me how I should play MY game?! Hello. MMO. Look up what it stands for, spare me the cliché of pretending to feel oppressed by evil authoritarians who want to control how you play. You wouldn't complain that you're required to aim in a FPS. You wouldn't complain that you're required to read dialogues in a RPG. You wouldn't complain that you're required to think in a strategy game. Don't complain you're required to socialize in a MMO. I facepalm when people defend a non-LFD with it not promoting social play. I facepalm when I see the opposite. Guess that makes us even. Edited January 30, 2012 by Akkalevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghettogenius Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 DDO group tool. Solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souloferdrick Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Its all a big joke to me. You want to group with random people who are otherwise too lazy (or simply don't care enough) to flag themselves and/or use a chat channel to start groups or to find groups. And you're in a guild. Somehow this is all a big mystery and only LFD is a solution. And it is a solution...for the brain dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum_Icecube Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 anti LFD arguments are based around nostalgia, hating anything wow did, and the fallacious argument that spamming general creates a better community. This. LFG please. Tired of the general chat spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitellius Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 You can go to the WoW forums and easily find this same argument there, but on the flip side. They already have it and plenty of players don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notsensible Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 You can go to the WoW forums and easily find this same argument there, but on the flip side. They already have it and plenty of players don't like it. Actually there's only maybe single digits in terms of players that populate the forums that don't want the LFD for WoW (just guessing). People may not be 100% for it, like here as well, but it was a damn blessing to have in more aspects than otherwise. What you might be referring to are the people who don't like other people they encounter through LFD lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittyPrawn Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It doesn't The thought seems to be that people will act like fools, especially if it is a cross-server LFD. Lack of accountability and all that. I'm biased though since I think adding a LFD is a no-brainer. To me, the ruined community doesn't come from lack of accountability or higher degree of people being jerks. I think of ruined community as this, and I apologize for using WoW as the reference: When WoW was contained to your server, you knew everyone and everyone knew you. You could talk about ninjas and you would have forum discussions, and get in vent with opposite factions. I made most of my friends when everything was contained to the server. When they made is cross-server, I very rarely met anyone new on my server. You lose that bond. I like the idea of an LFD tool, but I would prefer it to be on my server only. That way I don't have to sit in the fleet if I wish to do a flashpoint, but I can still meet people on my server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notsensible Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 To me, the ruined community doesn't come from lack of accountability or higher degree of people being jerks. I think of ruined community as this, and I apologize for using WoW as the reference: When WoW was contained to your server, you knew everyone and everyone knew you. You could talk about ninjas and you would have forum discussions, and get in vent with opposite factions. I made most of my friends when everything was contained to the server. When they made is cross-server, I very rarely met anyone new on my server. You lose that bond. I like the idea of an LFD tool, but I would prefer it to be on my server only. That way I don't have to sit in the fleet if I wish to do a flashpoint, but I can still meet people on my server. Very very much so this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) To me, the ruined community doesn't come from lack of accountability or higher degree of people being jerks. I think of ruined community as this, and I apologize for using WoW as the reference: When WoW was contained to your server, you knew everyone and everyone knew you. You could talk about ninjas and you would have forum discussions, and get in vent with opposite factions. I made most of my friends when everything was contained to the server. When they made is cross-server, I very rarely met anyone new on my server. You lose that bond. I like the idea of an LFD tool, but I would prefer it to be on my server only. That way I don't have to sit in the fleet if I wish to do a flashpoint, but I can still meet people on my server. I met people on other servers and you can group up with them and do dungeons together. So it did not ruin the community. Not having LFD tool does because now everyone just spams /1 and seldom get to do group content. And once the group is created its not often people chat with eachother in the dungeon. They just do all the bosses and after the dungeon they disband. Everyone against LFG tool is pretty much saying: This is not WoW. Group content ruins the community Edited January 30, 2012 by Marmerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittyPrawn Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I met people on other servers and you can group up with them and do dungeons together. So it did not ruin the community. Not having LFD tool does because now everyone just spams /1 and seldom get to do group content. And once the group is created its not often people chat with eachother in the dungeon. They just do all the bosses and after the dungeon they disband. Everyone against LFG tool is pretty much saying: How were you able to make friends and group with people on other servers unless you transferred/re-rolled, or was it after Blizz brought out Battle-net friend grouping? And, if you read the whole thing, I'm not against LFD. I don't see why people can't compromise and keep it to their own server. Edited January 30, 2012 by KittyPrawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How were you able to make friends and group with people on other servers unless you transferred/re-rolled, or was it after Blizz brought out Battle-net friend grouping? And, if you read the whole thing, I'm not against LFD. I don't see why people can't compromise and keep it to their own server. after real ID friend grouping. Met 2 girls on another server and we started playing together for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittyPrawn Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) after real ID friend grouping. Met 2 girls on another server and we started playing together for some time. Right. But that's not a possiblity in SWTOR at the moment. The only option you would have right now is to re-roll on that server. It wasn't even an option when Blizz first rolled out their LFD tool. Edited January 30, 2012 by KittyPrawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeDudeIsanub Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 If you consider a strawman to be a reasonable answer, it says more about you than it says about me. How am I strawmanning my own side? You're not even using argumentam ad logicum right, and you're accusing me of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ah yes !!! LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC Building a new community. Oh look, I see the problem. Your a useful class in a useless spec. Change that to heal and some might respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Right. But that's not a possiblity in SWTOR at the moment. The only option you would have right now is to re-roll on that server. It wasn't even an option when Blizz first rolled out their LFD tool. No but when blizz first rolled out the LFD tool it was working much better than SWTOR does today. Less ninjas and ******es. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Oh look, I see the problem. Your a useful class in a useless spec. Change that to heal and some might respond. I tried healer and it took 2 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bregah Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It removes the whole social and game part of actually making a group. It destroys involvement in the game (convenience button, push it and magically everything else is taken care of for you !), it destroys the social part (no need to interact, you just let the tool does the work), it destroys the actual point of a MMO. Just look at WoW to see how it basically ruined the community. Having played WoW both pre and post LFD - I don't see how the LFD tool at all ruined communities. At least not my server. I saw no evidence of this dramatic increase in jerkitude that people claim. Maybe I saw more ninja looting in dungeons, but I was able to run so many more dungeons that I'm sure the actual % of people that I ran into that were jerks went DOWN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittyPrawn Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 No but when blizz first rolled out the LFD tool it was working much better than SWTOR does today. Less ninjas and ******es. Only because people wouldn't report the problem like you'd get on a server forum. Maybe you were just luckier than me and my group of friends, but in LFD - I experienced a lot of issues with ninjas and jerks. But, you'll experience the same issue without LFD. At least if it is on your server, you can work to get that person shunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiennen Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Still struggling to see how you can fail to find just 3 other likeminded ppl to do things with, what are you all? Social lepers? we _are_ gamers. i think your question just answered itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavajo Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Con: Ruins community Myth. anti LFD arguments are based around nostalgia, hating anything wow did, and the fallacious argument that spamming general creates a better community. Fact. OP, the anti-LFD'er crowd is ignorant. Don't bother trying to understand them. They'll just drag you down with them. Just know that they're wrong, and ignore whatever they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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