JackKerras Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yeah, see, when Commandos/Mercs are allowed to just plant their feet and do whatever they want to people, they get ridiculous. You know what's a great way to get their DPS toned down? Move somewhere. Leave their range. Walk behind something now and then. Don't let them cast. I am consistently bedeviled by those little posts that surround all the fire traps in Huttball; just -walking by one- can be enough to interrupt one of my casts. Punting me stops me. Stunning me stops me. Leaving my range stops me. Doing all kinds of things absolutely destroys my ability to be a turret, which is what I'm designed for. If you ignore me, I absolutely wreck on ****. If you punt me out of every tracer I have, or use abilities that interrupt me or stop my cast and then stop me from casting it again right afterwards? I have no real recourse. I can use Flame Thrower, I guess, but almost everything I do requires planted feet. It's one of the simplest things to escape from in history. You shouldn't think you're OP because you do great damage when you're left entirely unmolested. That's what your class is for. You are a dynamic combat mechanic; every time you make an appearance, someone should be splitting off to shut you down. If they don't? Burn them. Burn them all. That's your only function in combat as a DPS Merc/Commando. And people CAN stop you from doing it. If they don't, you're only killing stupid people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machazareel Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 The thing about Arsenal/Gunnery is that in the land of the bads, it is king. This is to say that if a terrible Arsenal/Gunnery spec is fighting a terrible player of any other class, the terrible Arsenal/Gunnery will probably win, because terrible players will let the terrible Merc/Commando spam Tracer/Grav even at melee range and just try to dps them. Good players will interrupt with various tools, and a good player vs a good Arsenal/Gunnery player will often be sitting with the longer straw because there are few classes in which interrupts are nearly as devastating against, something good players use regularly. The Ars/Gun dude still has tricks up his sleeve, and can win by using them, but his build-up move will be pretty much negated, significantly lowering his damage output. Arsenal/Gunnery really isn't that great a PvP spec. Now, I personally don't think we should balance the classes around terrible players, but I guess all you terrible players would rather we do that instead of getting good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Shoot first hits for 1.8k-2.1K and it got nerfed by 20%, so why shouldn't yours? Shoot First hits for that the first level you pick it up. With a little gear and effort, you can get Shoot First up to some much crazier numbers. Also, if you use the ability which is -intended- to be used with Shoot First, it does an extra 800 damage -and- punches through a bunch of armor. Saying it hits for little damage is disingenuous at best. You can MAKE it hit for more, you're understating to support your bias. ALSO. Being pissy at being nerfed and perpetuating the Circle of Nerfs is 100% bad for this game. Control yourself. Edited January 28, 2012 by JackKerras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggok Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 The thing about Arsenal/Gunnery is that in the land of the bads, it is king. This is to say that if a terrible Arsenal/Gunnery spec is fighting a terrible player of any other class, the terrible Arsenal/Gunnery will probably win, because terrible players will let the terrible Merc/Commando spam Tracer/Grav even at melee range and just try to dps them. Good players will interrupt with various tools, and a good player vs a good Arsenal/Gunnery player will often be sitting with the longer straw because there are few classes in which interrupts are nearly as devastating against, something good players use regularly. The Ars/Gun dude still has tricks up his sleeve, and can win by using them, but his build-up move will be pretty much negated, significantly lowering his damage output. Arsenal/Gunnery really isn't that great a PvP spec. Now, I personally don't think we should balance the classes around terrible players, but I guess all you terrible players would rather we do that instead of getting good. Bravo. I'm sure there are some Mercs out there who blow people up in a ridiculous fashion, but I can assure you that if they do it's because of gear and not because of the class. Mercs have inherit weaknesses when it comes to PvP. They might be fine with a dedicated group, but there are toast if they try to solo against good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulpp Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I'll know the majority of the SWTOR population knows how to pvp when I start seeing: "Buff grav/tracer trees!". As it is, they are the easiest class to shut down. Until then, keep being terrible and advertising it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzzy Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) He's talking about mercs and commandos not powertechs and vangaurds. Commandos and mercs are really easy to shut down when grav/tracer spec. One interrupt and they get completely screwed. No they aren't, they lose some output potential by having to use hs/demo, rail shot and/or unload early waiting for the tracer/grav interrupt to end, but no class is "screwed" from 1 interrupt since interrupts in this only effect a single spell. Edited January 29, 2012 by Adzzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekahab Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 OP, if killing people so easily isnt fun for you, then just nerf yourself and pvp nekkid. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellison Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Nothing needs a nerf right now aside of op stealthers. It's on it's way. Now I've got nothing to add, so I'll add a little quote from Saxton Hale(Tf2). PROPERTY DAMAGE!!! That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gankdalf_ Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 And do it in a sensible way so there is no need to enter the balance rolercoster with devs shooting from the hip. Its simple, the pvp burst of the command and merc in their dps trees is to high and nothing will ever be fixed with the other trees untill this is done, However for pve where the burst is of less use the problem with sustainability even with proper pacing is gonna/has created issues on the harder pve. Solution: No its not nerf tracer/grav round 1.5 second cast skill for a turret like class is a must and frankly i think people are missing the real issue which is demo round (and the empire equivilent) which is the actual uber burst damage. Giving the class not 1 but 2 hard hitting instant abilities is simply making them overpowered, burn someone to 50%, cryo and then finish them its not fun for them and not for us. So how do we bump the pve power abit yet nerf the pvp power ? we make demo round a 3 sec channeled and cost free essentialy a masterstrike. This will cut down the burst of it in pvp and will give ppl a chance to interupt it yet it will still be usefull and with no cost highly valluable in pve. Yes im 50, yes i raid, yes i pvp, no im not Battlemaster yet. I think you are just an exceptional player that no matter what class you play you will be OP, therefore a nerf would be bad. There you got what you wanted not clear off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedus Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I dont understood why ppl cry about tracer missiles spamm, im playing arsenal BH and believe or not but im trying to avoid spamm tracers, first of all i get insta cc when i try to cast TM, got interrupted, silenced, knocked back or just LoS by healers/casters... so guys u must be noobs or bad if you call for nerf.Other side of medal is i learn to use all my damaging abilities, im trying to be in motion all time, ofc sometimes when you get good positioning u can spamm a bit but that cant be for a long time aka turret player cos i get insta focused, especially by melee which is my worst enemy.... still i dont cry cos im owned by well played maras or Juggs, even assasin giving me good sweating.What i wish to get as BH is range interrupt, its just stupid when you cant get to caster to knock him back or use rocket punch to interrupt his spamm lightning in my face and im ranged class so why im forced to run like melee without any gap closer to interrupt :/, maby little buff to mobility aka talents with 7% speed increase will help alot and force ppl to stop stupid spamm? dunno, other classes got damage, alot cc, great mobility, interrups and still cry about tracer spamm...like the guy who claimig be 4 shooted by tracers in 800 exp gear, lol 4 times in a row 4k crits, never saw crit bigger than 3.8k and most tracers hit around 1500-2000. So pls stop this whining about class, its not that class is broken only bad players which cant play in proper way and make us looks bad and noobish. p.s. sry for my english , its far from perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requimo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 You're either someone that got beat by a commando and you're mad or just plain ignorant asking for a nerf to your own class. A good pvper should know and ask for a nerf even his own class is the op. Maybe you should just stop posting and continue rolling FOTM classes because considering your approach, I guess thats what you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExigentStatus Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I play a Sage/vanguard and i think we should be nerfed as well. My brother plays a Guardian....i think he has something to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilslash Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 When classes are doing on average 2-3x damage more then others in a warzone, then its not balanced. Mercs and Sorcs can reach way over 500k and no other class can, and im talking about a huttball match not voidstar, neither am i talking about someone guarded and 2 pocket healers so they cant ever die, just a regular pug. Sure you can shutdown a merc in 1v1, well you'll limit there damage abit, so i think shutdown isnt the right word, they can still rocket punch / heatseekers / railgun / knockback / powershot / unload. Both mercs and sorcs will get nerfed in the near future, anyone that plays them knows this, they just dont wanna admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutee Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The thing about Arsenal/Gunnery is that in the land of the bads, it is king. This is to say that if a terrible Arsenal/Gunnery spec is fighting a terrible player of any other class, the terrible Arsenal/Gunnery will probably win, because terrible players will let the terrible Merc/Commando spam Tracer/Grav even at melee range and just try to dps them. Good players will interrupt with various tools, and a good player vs a good Arsenal/Gunnery player will often be sitting with the longer straw because there are few classes in which interrupts are nearly as devastating against, something good players use regularly. The Ars/Gun dude still has tricks up his sleeve, and can win by using them, but his build-up move will be pretty much negated, significantly lowering his damage output. Arsenal/Gunnery really isn't that great a PvP spec. Now, I personally don't think we should balance the classes around terrible players, but I guess all you terrible players would rather we do that instead of getting good. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Why do people bring up interrupting as if it completely wins the fight for you? Oh noes, they cant cast tracer for 4 seconds! That's barely 2 abilities coming from me assuming they don't use an CC on me. My Vengeance Jugg isn't popping 1.5-1.8k hits every 1.5 seconds. I have to sit there and clumsily rotate abilities out. They are not going to die from one interrupt nor is it "shutting them down" because they can just cast something else for a GCD. My only complaint is the sheer staggering amount of armor pen these two classes get. They get what..a passive 30% armor pen cylinder to load? Plus the stacking tracer spam? With no CD? My sunder can build 2 at a time IF SPECCED FOR IT and has a 6 sec cd and it's melee range. What gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilslash Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Its 35% passive and 4% each stack of tracer, which specced does 2 stacks per missile up to 5, so 55% in total, which yep is way too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelf Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Its 35% passive and 4% each stack of tracer, which specced does 2 stacks per missile up to 5, so 55% in total, which yep is way too high. The rent is too damn high! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkain Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) When classes are doing on average 2-3x damage more then others in a warzone, then its not balanced. Mercs and Sorcs can reach way over 500k and no other class can, and im talking about a huttball match not voidstar, neither am i talking about someone guarded and 2 pocket healers so they cant ever die, just a regular pug. Sure you can shutdown a merc in 1v1, well you'll limit there damage abit, so i think shutdown isnt the right word, they can still rocket punch / heatseekers / railgun / knockback / powershot / unload. Both mercs and sorcs will get nerfed in the near future, anyone that plays them knows this, they just dont wanna admit it. This, getting silly with ppl saying they are getting or getting to shutdown ppl with an interupt. Seriously there is plenty of other skills that cant be shutdown that you switch to those few seconds. Again to, the thread is about DEMO/heatseeker, not tracer/grav. Edited January 29, 2012 by harkain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineedmoreletters Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I honestly don't see the problem with Merc/commandos in gun/ars spec. They dont escape well they don't tank that well and they don't heal that well. Any class left to spam their damage will wreck faces. It's not like those are the good pvp trees anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaid Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Man I am so tired of hearing about tracer/grav spam. Just nerf the noob spec for the noobs who can't deal with it. It's the single most overrated spec/ability in the game. Nobody decent even uses the spec for more than the occasional pug stomping. Assault is just so much better in almost every way, the only downside is without a healer you get trucked on by melee (less escapes). Just nerf tracer/grav into the ground, then when everyone switches to assault let the crying commence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakwon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 First rule of gravity round club is you dont talk about gravity round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriIIian Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) OP you are a ******** with no idea. You want to nerf the pvp ability of commando and make them stronger in pve. They already **** in pve and only shine when left alone in PVP. so shut the **** up. They are a healing class with the worst heals in game. All they have is a damage ability that is easily interupted, no defence against any melee class, no escape and the best ability can crit for 4000 (also on a decent cooldown). Plus easily defeted 1 v 1. So all we have in pvp is damage if left alone. If you were a commando who pvp you would know this. Your not so as I said shut the **** up. Edited January 29, 2012 by TriIIian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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