Taugrim's "Iron Fist" 25/14/2 PVP Tank Spec [Video]

[Orsian]

Hey Taugrim, it's good to see the high quality of your guides and writing here on SWTOR. I was a Swordmaster in WAR and that's where I first read your posts. Thank you for the work you've done to help players make the most of their characters.

[taugrimtaugrim]

personally i really enjoy this spec :23/4/14

but as i was reading your suggestions i may try out another build as well.

 

i hope this link works, this is my build :http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GoMrdMdoMZMMZbIbbk.1

 

i really enjoy your "journalistic speech style" intelligent streams.

 

good luck taugrim,

 

If you are going to put 14 into Assault Spec, you might as well invest another 4 to max out Ionic Accelerator, at which point you'd be running a variant of the Carolina Parakeet build (21/2/18).

[taugrimtaugrim]

Do you really find vanguard durability to be that great?

 

With this spec? Absolutely.

 

Some of my guildees who were running other specs right when they hit 50 recently switched to this spec and said it is far more durable.

 

Here's a post from a Powertech saying the same thing:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2439646#edit2439646

btw, iron fist is a beast pvp spec. i only have 4 pieces of champion gear considering i hit 50over the weekend but i already feel like im a reasonably hard target to burst down. im pleased with the damage aswell. i look forward to the damage and survivability when i get mostly champion gear.

Edited February 3, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[taugrimtaugrim]

Hey Taugrim, it's good to see the high quality of your guides and writing here on SWTOR. I was a Swordmaster in WAR and that's where I first read your posts. Thank you for the work you've done to help players make the most of their characters.

 

Thanks Orsian!

 

It's always good to hear from a fellow WAR Swordmaster

 

While Iron Fist is more rangy than an SM, the spec gives me the offensive capability that I enjoyed on my SM, so I can play aggressively and get in the grill of opponents, which is exactly what I did on my SM.

[Zarcharias]

bah. everyone knows KoTBS > SM.

 

Now that I recall T, I ran into you on my Knight in WAR as well, taking turns dueling a few baddies. That was a couple years after Lotro maybe? man it all blurs together after a while.

 

I have specced out this build (but use shield gen 2 instead of smoke) and I really do notice that extra 9% mitigation over my previous shield/tactics builds. Even more so than really high shield/absorb builds. Thanks for that. IT just adds a certain stable consistency and a feeling of "toughness". I would trade a whole pile of cookies and scotch for a combat log though.

 

I swapped out supercommando gloves, belt, bracers, and 1 implant for a combo of medic/elim champ parts lastnight prior to running my dailies.

 

I only slightly noticed the ~9% drop in shield/absoorb and the 500 or so HP i lost.

 

I also noticed consistent crits that actually made a difference, especially popping relic prior to hosing down a pile of sith with lightning.

 

Since in the last 11 bags I have pulled a single battlemaster commendation, I just may end up building a full set of champ eliminator to test with this spec to see how it feels with a full "squishy dps" set.

 

I do think though, that the 4 piece bonus damage from supercommando is probably best overall when paired with the defensive stats and endurance it gives you. More testing required.

[Kurtt]

I've just switched to this spec on my Vanguard. Currently 25/8/2.

 

Really enjoying it so far. Lots more utility, in both PvP and PvE. I can go one on one with lots of different classes, and usually come out on top.

 

My brother has a heal specced Commando in the 30's, and we grouped up last night for some WZ action. We topped the scoreboards quite frequently, me with damage, protection, kills and medals, and him with lots of healing.

 

Really, really good spec. Looking forward to 50 and Champion gear!

[angryca]

With this spec? Absolutely.

 

Some of my guildees who were running other specs right when they hit 50 recently switched to this spec and said it is far more durable.

 

 

I am 35 on my trooper at this time and am playing the level 35 version of the build. It seems like it is reasonably hard for one person to kill me but I get absolutely decimated if I become a popular target (3 people will kill me in a few cooldowns), which I often do since I'm in melee range and jumping into back lines and such.

 

At one point in the video you show some impressive durability, near the end. I wonder if it isn't as much gear imbalance as anything or that a combat log would give some interesting information, if one existed.

 

Agian, it is the warhammer memories that fuel my annoyance. I find it frustrating that dps can pick me as a target in a care free manner.

[taugrimtaugrim]

bah. everyone knows KoTBS > SM.

 

Now that I recall T, I ran into you on my Knight in WAR as well, taking turns dueling a few baddies. That was a couple years after Lotro maybe? man it all blurs together after a while.

 

Yea WAR was right after LOTRO. I left LOTRO for the promise of RVR in WAR, which was fun while leveling but the game client and server weren't stable enough or able to gracefully handle large numbers of players without lagging or one or the other crashing.

 

I have specced out this build (but use shield gen 2 instead of smoke) and I really do notice that extra 9% mitigation over my previous shield/tactics builds. Even more so than really high shield/absorb builds. Thanks for that. IT just adds a certain stable consistency and a feeling of "toughness". I would trade a whole pile of cookies and scotch for a combat log though.

 

I only slightly noticed the ~9% drop in shield/absoorb and the 500 or so HP i lost.

 

Yea the improved durability offered by this spec is one of its strengths. As the old adage goes, you can't DPS when you're dead.

 

I just may end up building a full set of champ eliminator to test with this spec to see how it feels with a full "squishy dps" set.

 

I do think though, that the 4 piece bonus damage from supercommando is probably best overall when paired with the defensive stats and endurance it gives you. More testing required.

 

In terms of gear for this spec, this is what I recommend:

UPDATE (2012/2/2): people have been asking about gear for this spec. Here's what you want to get:

• Supercommando Shield offhand: to leverage the free +15% Shield Chance buff you get from the tanking stance. While I don't believe the Shield Chance stat is worth stacking for PVP, the +15% benefit is worth leveraging
  
• Combat Tech 4-pc set: for the awesome +15% Crit Chance to Rocket Punch (Stockstrike). Alternatively, if you prefer the Supercommando set bonuses, you can go 4-pc Supercommando and swap out the mods for DPS ones
  
• Go for DPS stats for the remaining slots: this means Eliminator, Combat Tech, and in some cases Combat Medic. The priority for the stats is what I documented in the Stats and Gear section of my Powertech / Vanguard Guide
  

[taugrimtaugrim]

I've just switched to this spec on my Vanguard. Currently 25/8/2.

 

Really enjoying it so far. Lots more utility, in both PvP and PvE. I can go one on one with lots of different classes, and usually come out on top.

 

My brother has a heal specced Commando in the 30's, and we grouped up last night for some WZ action. We topped the scoreboards quite frequently, me with damage, protection, kills and medals, and him with lots of healing.

 

Really, really good spec. Looking forward to 50 and Champion gear!

 

Yes the spec rocks in warzones. I'm typically top 3 in DPS, and I don't even have a full set of Champion gear yet.

 

I am 35 on my trooper at this time and am playing the level 35 version of the build. It seems like it is reasonably hard for one person to kill me but I get absolutely decimated if I become a popular target (3 people will kill me in a few cooldowns), which I often do since I'm in melee range and jumping into back lines and such.

 

At one point in the video you show some impressive durability, near the end. I wonder if it isn't as much gear imbalance as anything or that a combat log would give some interesting information, if one existed.

 

FWIW, I have very average gear. My Vanguard when I made this video had 8 or 9 pieces of Champion gear, no Battlemaster, at around Valor 56 or so.

 

Right now at your level you are missing the second 2% mitigation talent and a lot of the CC capability of the spec.

 

Those points will round out your performance.

[Mavic]

I see a lot of VG's using storm as an opener to jump in to the fray, in reality it is so useful in getting yourself out of the mess when you start to take too much dmg, or to get closer to your healer when they are being harrased.

[taugrimtaugrim]

I see a lot of VG's using storm as an opener to jump in to the fray, in reality it is so useful in getting yourself out of the mess when you start to take too much dmg, or to get closer to your healer when they are being harrased.

 

Correct, our charge has defensive uses as well.

[Dustfinder]

Watch the video:

| on my blog

 

Copy of the description for the video provided below.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This video covers my “Iron Fist” 25/14/2 PVP tank spec.

 

I designed the spec after discerning the limitations of the Defense (avoidance) and Shield (block) mechanics for tanks in PVP. Mitigation is king in SWTOR PVP. The two 2% mitigation talents and 5% mitigation from the tanking stance stack additively to provide 9% mitigation against all damage types (i.e. Elemental, Energy, Internal, and Kinetic) - you can see this by mousing over Damage Reduction on your Character window.

 

The 4-pc Tech set bonus, Static Shield talent, and Static Surge talent synergize to generate a high frequency of high-damage Stockstrike crits.

 

Here is the spec used in the video:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GRGozRroMZMcrroZb.1

 

The “Iron Fist” spec has been very effective for me in PVP, both group play and solo. It’s designed to support aggressive close-quarters combat gameplay: you can tank and burn down MDPS and pressure and shutdown casters and healers, while retaining Guard, charge, and debuff capability.

 

For more information about Vanguard PVP, please refer to my free in-depth Guide.

 

I queued solo for the Huttball match shown in the video.

 

Comments / Errata:

1. I had an incorrect Relic bound on my Quickslot bar. The point made in the video still stands: the level 50 Crit buff stacks with a Relic
   

UPDATE (2012/2/2): people have been asking about gear for this spec. Here's what you want to get:

• Supercommando Shield offhand: to leverage the free +15% Shield Chance buff you get from the tanking stance. While I don't believe the Shield Chance stat is worth stacking for PVP, the +15% benefit is worth leveraging
  
• Combat Tech 4-pc set: for the awesome +15% Crit Chance to Rocket Punch (Stockstrike). Alternatively, if you prefer the Supercommando set bonuses, you can go 4-pc Supercommando and swap out the mods for DPS ones
  
• Go for DPS stats for the remaining slots: this means Eliminator, Combat Tech, and in some cases Combat Medic. The priority for the stats is what I documented in the Stats and Gear section of my Powertech / Vanguard Guide
  

To see me PVP’ing live, check out my TwitchTV channel. My stream features real-time commentary – and to the extent possible interaction with the Chat Room.

 

Nice build, I go 25/16/0 and love it. I can see the point of the 14 and 2 but imo it is preference where you want to spec it at.

[Dustfinder]

I see a lot of VG's using storm as an opener to jump in to the fray, in reality it is so useful in getting yourself out of the mess when you start to take too much dmg, or to get closer to your healer when they are being harrased.

 

It is definetly great in huttball when you are running the ball. There is always people up on the top middle rafter to just strom up to and go score. Also running with a sage is good too since they can pull you to them.

[taugrimtaugrim]

Nice build, I go 25/16/0 and love it. I can see the point of the 14 and 2 but imo it is preference where you want to spec it at.

 

Exactly.

 

Spec'ing is about tradeoffs, so people should tweak builds to suit their preferred playstyle and capabilities.

 

It is definetly great in huttball when you are running the ball. There is always people up on the top middle rafter to just strom up to and go score. Also running with a sage is good too since they can pull you to them.

 

Indeed.

 

In that video I run the flag from the spawn point and basically solo cap it by timing my PBAoE stun and then gaming the Resolve mechanic by popping my CC breaker immediately after I am knocked down:

[Godliness]

I've been using a very similar spec to this one.

 

I think I take the 3% endurance and the Storm run speed instead a couple of Taugrim's choices. They improve my survivability, which I had gotten used to having since I came up as a pure tank. (Taugrim's improved interrupt cooldowns strike me as a holdover from mmo's where dueling was a bigger component, but that's not a big part of my swtor experience, so I skip it. To each his own.) But basically the same build.

 

I wear full BM Supercommando gear, regemmed for dps (which is easy to do -- you can easily swap out the BM tank enhancements for champion dps enhancements, and that takes care of most of the issue until you can start collecting your bm combat tech set, which you can rob for nicer mods.)

 

I usually have around 18k hps instead of the 20k I had as full tank a few weeks ago. And I also don't have the beefy defense and absorption stats I used to. But I consider the 13.5 second Storm cooldown and its run speed boost to be my real pvp defense. Getting focus fired? Just jump to an enemy who's getting focus fired. Burn him down quick. If your attackers follow, now you've got them outnumbered. No better defense than range.

 

If I'm playing a solid Voidstar match with two good teams, I expect to do about 500k dmg and protect for 100k. No reason you can't lead the damage meters and the protect meters as well in this spec. At least until everyone catches up in gear. ); Anyway, I like this build. Try it out!

Edited February 3, 2012 by Godliness

[VragonBral]

Hey Taugrim, I've been following you ever since Rift. And just got done noticing your awesome vanguard thread. I couldn't read through all the posts as I am at work. But I have a quick question for you.

 

Would this build seem viable to you for a mix between soft-defense and high damage.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZ0MZbIbrdhGMs.1

 

I know I know, lose Storm with it. And its invaluable. But I have noticed that a Vanguard sits on the threshold of being a "Tanky-DPS" with how he can be built.

 

So far the Pro's/Con's look like this:

Pros:

Increased DPS ceiling with HIB proc's/Crits.

 

Large Burst potential with Assault Plastique.

 

30 Meter DoT.

 

Moderate Flat Mitigation from Cell.

 

Cons:

High Ammo Usage.

 

Less Flat Mitigation.

 

Less Synergy with several Talents when not in Plasma Cell. (But you can switch Cells depending on situation)

 

Less Utility. (No Snare from Stealth Scan, no Storm, no snare on Harpoon and no Smoke Grenade. Not to mention longer Riot Strike CD)

 

 

But so far it seems like a very useful build. I know it suits some of my tastes. But it's not like your build, where it gives the feeling of being able to just be an overall aide to your team and not focused purely on DPS or tanking.

Edited February 3, 2012 by VragonBral

[Zaphir]

This build is pretty great for shutting down healers (and has enough survivability so that you can do it while being beat on, and live). Sooo many interrupts.

 

If I'm not getting peeled, the only non-instant spell a healing sorc is going to cast is a tick of innervate... I actually made a heal spec sorc give up healing completely and only spam nukes in a WZ the other day. Against other healers it gets even more lopsided since they have fewer heals and using the 'wrong' heal runs them out of steam quick.

[taugrimtaugrim]

Would this build seem viable to you for a mix between soft-defense and high damage.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZ0MZbIbrdhGMs.1

 

...so far it seems like a very useful build. I know it suits some of my tastes. But it's not like your build, where it gives the feeling of being able to just be an overall aide to your team and not focused purely on DPS or tanking.

 

What you're describing is basically the BULLDOG spec which combines many of the excellent abilities and talents from Assault Spec with the ability to Guard from the tank tree.

 

It seems viable if that's what you want in terms of playstyle.

[taugrimtaugrim]

This build is pretty great for shutting down healers (and has enough survivability so that you can do it while being beat on, and live). Sooo many interrupts.

 

If I'm not getting peeled, the only non-instant spell a healing sorc is going to cast is a tick of innervate... I actually made a heal spec sorc give up healing completely and only spam nukes in a WZ the other day. Against other healers it gets even more lopsided since they have fewer heals and using the 'wrong' heal runs them out of steam quick.

 

Yea, I've had good success shutting down healers with this spec. It's been fun.

 

[VragonBral]

What you're describing is basically the BULLDOG spec which combines many of the excellent abilities and talents from Assault Spec with the ability to Guard from the tank tree.

 

It seems viable if that's what you want in terms of playstyle.

 

Thanks for the reply Taugrim! Your doing a great job with all this info you been bringing to the Vanguard forums. Thanks man.

[Urke]

hey , how would this build do in mix of pvp and pve http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GMGMdoroMZMsr0oZbc.1 i guess its similar to Iron Fist just added 3 points to endurance in assult, you think its worth it? And chose blaster augs over tactical tools...

[Saprezzan]

What you're describing is basically the BULLDOG spec which combines many of the excellent abilities and talents from Assault Spec with the ability to Guard from the tank tree.

 

It seems viable if that's what you want in terms of playstyle.

 

By the way, I was wondering whether it'd be worth it to put 2 points into Static Field instead of Intimidation. Seems worth it for 1 on 1 fights as well for that rare case when you get to use pulse cannon. On the other hand, Ion Pulse is a bread & butter damage skill.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801RRMZ0MZbIbrdhhrs.1

[JackSmoke]

Not my cup of tea really.

[taugrimtaugrim]

hey , how would this build do in mix of pvp and pve http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GMGMdoroMZMsr0oZbc.1 i guess its similar to Iron Fist just added 3 points to endurance in assult, you think its worth it? And chose blaster augs over tactical tools...

 

You skipped the excellent PVP talents on the left-hand side of the tanking tree.

 

Blaster Augs isn't worth a point when in the tanking stance, but it's great for the other stances.

[taugrimtaugrim]

(Taugrim's improved interrupt cooldowns strike me as a holdover from mmo's where dueling was a bigger component, but that's not a big part of my swtor experience, so I skip it. To each his own.)

 

Not at all

 

The interrupt in this game makes it easy to shutdown healers and classes that spam the same nukes over and over again (e.g. DPS Sorcs/Sages, Tracer Missile Mercs, Grav Round Commandos).

 

But I consider the 13.5 second Storm cooldown and its run speed boost to be my real pvp defense. Getting focus fired? Just jump to an enemy who's getting focus fired. Burn him down quick. If your attackers follow, now you've got them outnumbered. No better defense than range.

 

Yes, this is a good tactic to get out of trouble.

 

The run speed boost is mainly valuable for either FC'ing or running away bravely. For the times when you charge to beat on a target, the run speed buff isn't helpful.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that mitigation scales based on the # of people beating on you, which is why it makes sense to stack the mitigation talents. There is no better boost to survivability than simply stacking it, and it's always-on.