HanSollo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Exactly. Expertise isn't the end all be all of pvp stats either. Your right Taking 12% less dmg and doing 12% more dmg is almost nothing untill you add them togeather and count the HP difference. lets say a skill does 1k dmg and it is 2 of the same class 1k for you does 1120 to me for me it does 880 thats almost nothing, not including that you have 4k more hp, over 5 hits you have done 5600 dmg where as i have done 4400 now thats ONLY 5 hits how many abilities do you use to kill a person cause i know i use about 5 in 5 secs and thats just the first 5 secs of a 20 sec fight but your right tell you what ill get my 500+ expertise shadow and you can pick ANY OTHER CLASS and we will see how much dmg you do before i decide to bury you in 5 hits since you take 5k per crit and only have 12-14 k hp idk why they took out the blue pvp gear it was an awesome idea so that fresh 50s didnt get face rolled because they started with 250+ expertise not awesome but not terriable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omeqa Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm 49 now and know what's coming in a few bars. My plan at the moment is to stick to the group a lot more than I do now. That's about it. Grin and bear it. I wont be going in with 18 expertise though. I didn't bother with a full set of 20 or 40 gear seeing as though you level past it so quickly. Instead I bought Mercenary commendations. I'll ding 50 with 1000 warzone commendations, buy 5 bags, play 10 or so games, buy 5 more. It won't be THAT bad. I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I would have stayed with WoW if I wanted this... at least their class's are a bit balanced compared to what we have now. . 4th post in a that god forsaken game was brought up again. not knocking you buddy, but god i hate wizards and fairies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Or a stat to separate people who don't want to PvE to get the top gear so they don't get stomped by the people who do PvE and have the raid gear. i hear this arguement but i do not understand it. why not just have pve and pvp gear provide the same stats with just diffrent looks. maybe one could be a defense increase and one could be a crit increase if worn as a set.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natharon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Yes it is. It is the sole reason why 1-49had such a bad time when 50s were in warfronts with them. Even at level 10-20 i had no tfouble figjting anyone up to 49. Once people hit 50 with expertise they mopped the floor. This is where all the neff cries first came from. In the first week prior to anyone having expertise there were little to no problems in pvp. Pretty sure it was the health pool being 11k for the undergeared underleveled compared to the 15k-20k for the geared players, on top of, oh I don't know, full talents, higher armor/defensive ratings, higher crit/surge ratings. Oh and set bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natharon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 No they didn't. They farmed level 10-30 players with 200+ expertise in easy mode. The risk versus reward paradigm is completely broken. And they were the 10-30 range players leveling up.... :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizwolf Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 After having a BM Operative I can see what all the fuss was with them as a newbie Sorcerer. I don't get up after the initial hit, ever. The sad part is the sucky ones can still beat me and the good ones I just chuckle. I think to myself "That's what all the complaining is about" This isn't an Operative thread but they wreck all newbies but so does everyone. It's been a tough 3 days at 50 but finished all weekly's, daily's, and got the bags with commendations. Think I've opened 20 or so and really only need a chest now. Well, some is Columi. I can now at least compete. If you can't gear yourself out in a week and take what you get, you need to learn patience. Just laugh it off and know you will be on the same playing field as them in a short amount of time. And don't mind us BM's. A full Champion guy against a full BM is not going to change the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallensbane Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) At this point they need to just remove the friggin restriction on opening Champion bags, allow those under 50 to acquire their pvp gear ahead of time (let them bank it ahead of time, until they can make use of it). They screwed up massively with allowing the 50s to farm low levels and allowing people to trade back and forth for bags. At least THIS would give those who really work hard at pvp the chance to enter the tier without such a huge disadvantage. Of course, since doing something like this would make sense, its not going to happen. Edited January 29, 2012 by Fallensbane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 i hear this arguement but i do not understand it. why not just have pve and pvp gear provide the same stats with just diffrent looks. maybe one could be a defense increase and one could be a crit increase if worn as a set.... Because then PvE people cry that their gear is harder to get and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 At this point they need to just remove the friggin restriction on opening Champion bags, allow those under 50 to acquire their pvp gear ahead of time (let them bank it ahead of time, until they can make use of it). They screwed up massively with allowing the 50s to farm low levels and allowing people to trade back and forth for bags. At least THIS would give those who really work hard at pvp the chance to enter the tier without such a huge disadvantage. Of course, since doing something like this would make sense, its not going to happen. This is the 100% most balanced and logical solution. Allow the person to be able to bank their champion gear. They can easily have a full set by level 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcyrus Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm loving playing alts for precisely this reason. The 10-49 PvP is an absolutely blast. It's great fun, like how things were in the first week or 2 after launch. 50 PvP feels like a chore - a chore doled out by a sadistic taskmaster. I've never been a fan of PvP stats or tiered PvP gear for precisely the reasons you (the OP) listed. It creates problems enough without the whole randomness of the bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greennunu Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 not gonna dig through 19 page of people giving erroneous information. I don't quite understand where the OP got his game from. As I see it SWTOR even with it's "horrible" RNG system for the bags, still alot the players more than enough gear in a much faster pace than any other game I have. They add in examples of how other games are so great but yet leave out the blaring faults they have in them. Would you rather do it like WoW where they put a cap on how much Commedations you can get per week and just save up for your gear instead? Cause once I hit 50 it took me about 1.5 week to get fully geared in champ minus 1 ear piece. As for getting in to 50 and being totally undergeared fighting other totally geared out people. That is completely flawed logic, you are undergeared, yet the other faction has no new 50s? The other faction can group up with their guild who have level 50s with BM gear but you can't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Bag-of-fail is a pretty new PvP system Go go innovation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 How is it flawed badly with normalized stats? Actually it would be an additional tool to keep classes in balance with each other. I'm not proposing Making a tank have the same hitpoints as a stealther. Moreso, tank 1 has 11k hp and tank 2 has 24k hp, both level 50. They're flag turns on, they both have 15-16k or some other preset figure balanced with other classes. If normalization will not work, then put a stat cap and let people work up to that. Try not to just be arguementative and rude. It only tarnishes your character and people dismiss what you have to say. Your idea takes the gearing up incentive out of PvP and turns it into a little minigame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightVane Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 So, having 1 bag.. and 1000 merc/wz coms at level 47 means when i hit 50 i wont have one piece of gear? Happened to me yesterday - not a single piece of gear. I can buy 1 relic with the centurian points I got from my 6 bags. Having said that I am not QQing as the OP suggests. Yes in my lvl40 PVP gear, and being a healer I was a bnit of a target but tbh its not that big a deal. The bag thing however did piss me off. Not keen on the lottery in RL and like it less in my gaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhorlok Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I have to concur with the OP... I just hit 50 today, got my world rocked hard... Can't stock up prior to 50 to get Cent gear at least, I played in the beta, pre-release and been playing since but I have friends that level slowly so I leveled with them. I did 13 Warzones to get 3 wins The three we did win on was the "three turret" map and we won barely Prior to the 50 warzones I died often as a Trooper but I got a decent amount of kills as well - usually top 3. When I hit 50 I had 1 bag stored and 1000/1000 - got lucky and got my main hand Champion Weapon. Go into the warzone and got 3 kills... 13 Warzones and my kills dropped from 30+ to under 10 per zone. For the first time since I started playing this game I end up with more deaths than kills, hell to get a kill you just need to do a fair amount of damage someone else can kill them. But with 3 to 4 kills per warzone as a Republic I am still in the top 3 for kills. Is that pathetic or what? I had over 20 deaths, 4 kills... we would do the Ship Warzone and they would stay close to the spawn point and just kill us immediately. I decided to respec my Trooper as a healer, figured maybe a little healing would help out. I have ok Alacrity, my Medical Probe is 1.76 Seconds to cast advanced is 1.2ish Start of the warzone I leave the Safe zone last. Let the tanks go and I will try to keep them alive. 1 Assassin Jumps me and I am dead before I can get off a single heal. Insta death... I have 14355 Health, 3658 Armor Rating with 29.3% damage reduction - I am not uber by any means afterall I have to try and earn my battlemaster etc gear, and I am insta killed by most Sith... We have a serious case of the haves and the havenots Republic are the havenots. I don't know if the skills match up, I don't know if the classes are balanced. When I play my now 50 Trooper during CST peak hours I see 90 people on the Republic fleet, same time of the day for Empire over 200 consistantly. Iillum? I went there for the first time, killed the first 2 sith I saw solo a Merc and an Agent - I am not completely worthless... Saw someone forming a group so I joined - we ended up getting 6 people to join. We went to our first base - got a few kills got killed it was fun. 10 minutes later Sith are breeding like flies, our 6 faced over 20 - Yes I counted. So we decided to try and stealth a bit - the instant the "Trooper Joeshmoe has been spotted message appears 20 or so sith would show up there was probably over 50 of them in the war zone to out travel Death spawns and travel by Fast Bikes against 6... Empire outnumbers Republic all over, read the forums everyone agrees on this. Most Empire at 50 right now - NOW being the key - got their gear prior to the level 50 warzone and earned their gear the easy way killing level 10 Jedi knights to get their daily wins out of the way. I stayed queued in the Warzones and took every warzone offered to me, it took me 7 hours and 23 minutes to get my 3 wins... How can you fix it you ask? you can't... Anything you do at this point only favors the Empire, making the Cent gear cheaper - helps both sides but Empire players already have an easy time getting their wins out of the way. Reopen the PvP so 50's aren't bracketed? Nope once again the reason for the brackets in the first place is level 50's were *** pwning everything under 50 due to their gear and expertise etc... You can't fix this crap, there is nothing you can do, the scales are tipped, the chance to balance the playfield is gone This universe is taking place a thousand years prior to the Movies, I guess we now know why all of the Jedi's were killed or in hiding... As for me? I have a level 42 Sith Sorc... yup you guessed it, since I get ***** prison style everytime I enter a warzone as a Republic I am going to join the masses already defecting and play my Sith. When he hits 50 I will sit back relax, toss out a few heals and have my Battlemaster gear handed to me on a silver platter... This game had such great potential, it's really to bad its been live for just over 30 days and already sucks so bad I am trolling the MMO forums looking for something else... Guess thats another $150 wasted (yes I bought the collectors edition I had such high hopes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhorlok Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Ok seriously yuou censor W T F? ***... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Make Centurion Commendations tradeable. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheldras Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 We had to work for our PVP gear, so you will have to as well. Whow, i really thought we play for fun... thanks for telling its work again. Something`s wrong with the Post-WoW-Younglings these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desgarden Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Welcome to MMOs, this is nothing new at all. And that's why those "developers" aren't worth their job description and also the problem of SWTOR. Like it or not, it copied so many age-old systems which wouldn't be bad in itself. However, it also copied all their shortcomings like the pvp (expertise) stat which basically gives you an auto-win when you face someone without any expertise (I pity those poor souls who get ripped apart by my geared toon, yet I know that once my alt reaches 50 I am in the same boat as they are. AND THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN?!?!). In some cases, e.g. open world pvp, it is far worse than WoW, Warhammer, or DaOC. In my opinion the game is pvpwise in really deep water and I doubt it will improve anytime soon. Ilum is so bad that it gives me the creeps and provide zero incentive for the underdog faction to set a foot into the zone. Edited January 29, 2012 by Desgarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheldras Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I have to concur with the OP... I just hit 50 today, got my world rocked hard... Can't stock up prior to 50 to get Cent gear at least, I played in the beta, pre-release and been playing since but I have friends that level slowly so I leveled with them. I did 13 Warzones to get 3 wins The three we did win on was the "three turret" map and we won barely Prior to the 50 warzones I died often as a Trooper but I got a decent amount of kills as well - usually top 3. When I hit 50 I had 1 bag stored and 1000/1000 - got lucky and got my main hand Champion Weapon. Go into the warzone and got 3 kills... 13 Warzones and my kills dropped from 30+ to under 10 per zone. For the first time since I started playing this game I end up with more deaths than kills, hell to get a kill you just need to do a fair amount of damage someone else can kill them. But with 3 to 4 kills per warzone as a Republic I am still in the top 3 for kills. Is that pathetic or what? I had over 20 deaths, 4 kills... we would do the Ship Warzone and they would stay close to the spawn point and just kill us immediately. I decided to respec my Trooper as a healer, figured maybe a little healing would help out. I have ok Alacrity, my Medical Probe is 1.76 Seconds to cast advanced is 1.2ish Start of the warzone I leave the Safe zone last. Let the tanks go and I will try to keep them alive. 1 Assassin Jumps me and I am dead before I can get off a single heal. Insta death... I have 14355 Health, 3658 Armor Rating with 29.3% damage reduction - I am not uber by any means afterall I have to try and earn my battlemaster etc gear, and I am insta killed by most Sith... We have a serious case of the haves and the havenots Republic are the havenots. I don't know if the skills match up, I don't know if the classes are balanced. When I play my now 50 Trooper during CST peak hours I see 90 people on the Republic fleet, same time of the day for Empire over 200 consistantly. Iillum? I went there for the first time, killed the first 2 sith I saw solo a Merc and an Agent - I am not completely worthless... Saw someone forming a group so I joined - we ended up getting 6 people to join. We went to our first base - got a few kills got killed it was fun. 10 minutes later Sith are breeding like flies, our 6 faced over 20 - Yes I counted. So we decided to try and stealth a bit - the instant the "Trooper Joeshmoe has been spotted message appears 20 or so sith would show up there was probably over 50 of them in the war zone to out travel Death spawns and travel by Fast Bikes against 6... Empire outnumbers Republic all over, read the forums everyone agrees on this. Most Empire at 50 right now - NOW being the key - got their gear prior to the level 50 warzone and earned their gear the easy way killing level 10 Jedi knights to get their daily wins out of the way. I stayed queued in the Warzones and took every warzone offered to me, it took me 7 hours and 23 minutes to get my 3 wins... How can you fix it you ask? you can't... Anything you do at this point only favors the Empire, making the Cent gear cheaper - helps both sides but Empire players already have an easy time getting their wins out of the way. Reopen the PvP so 50's aren't bracketed? Nope once again the reason for the brackets in the first place is level 50's were *** pwning everything under 50 due to their gear and expertise etc... You can't fix this crap, there is nothing you can do, the scales are tipped, the chance to balance the playfield is gone This universe is taking place a thousand years prior to the Movies, I guess we now know why all of the Jedi's were killed or in hiding... As for me? I have a level 42 Sith Sorc... yup you guessed it, since I get ***** prison style everytime I enter a warzone as a Republic I am going to join the masses already defecting and play my Sith. When he hits 50 I will sit back relax, toss out a few heals and have my Battlemaster gear handed to me on a silver platter... This game had such great potential, it's really to bad its been live for just over 30 days and already sucks so bad I am trolling the MMO forums looking for something else... Guess thats another $150 wasted (yes I bought the collectors edition I had such high hopes) Listen to this man Bioware... this es exactly the mood i keep hearing again and again. My "ex-Main" is 39, my new Main 23. Both Republic, i restarted a few times, tested Classes didnt rush, tradeskill, I play for fun, not fast playthoughs. So im far off that so far... but i realy wonder how bad it will be, when im 50, and stand against bored, fully equipped 50ers. Ands frankly, it IS unbelanced. I wonder if i jump the Train, and just reroll Empire.. and hope, Bioware awakens and balances out things. Or i will just have my subscription run out, ans declare the Game i had high hopes since SWG a failure. Im getting too old for MMOs anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 lol maybe 4-5 shots here instead of 1-2 shots aion, but yeah at least the curve isnt THAT steep. And the gear grind isn't nearly as bad either. Oh man would people be crying if it took them 3 weeks to a month to get a single piece of pvp gear. Still play aion some myself, nearly full ABG on my spiritmaster, but I just don't have the drive anymore for that kind of grind. Not to mention the horrible socketing and +'ing system. I'll take random bags over that any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbokr Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) I mean what do you want... the second you hit level 50, you can 1v1 any geared level 50 that has been there for over a month? I'm sorry, but that's how MMOs/most online games work. New people that hit the cap are at a disadvantage for a bit until they build up the perks that others spent weeks building. I agree there needs to be some sort of entry level set (make centurion cost 800-1000 warzone commendations per piece), but nothing drastic. @Mhorlok you queued with a group of 4 fresh level 50s and lost more warzones than you won? LOL, this makes perfect sense and should happen. If I grouped with 4 fully geared people, I'm probably going to win 70% of my warzones, half the team knows what they are doing/has good gear. If I queue with 3 fresh 50s, HALF of my team is new to the level 50 pvp scene and has inferior gear; of course I'm going to win only around 30% of my warzones. Queuing solo or with 2 and not gimping your team would probably work out better until you get some gear. Edited January 29, 2012 by Anbokr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllSike Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Bump for support the bag system is horribadstupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krondorf Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 To OP: Look, i've seen endgame pvp in other games too. And i can say i've seen worse. At least here if 2 non-geared lvl 50 pvpers gang up on 1 fully geared they can still hope to take him down. After Aion's pvp i can honestly say that going through that for some time until i start getting gear is fine... Are you sure? I was 1 of 3 ganging up on one leet geared 50, and after one died, i was next, and don't know if the third died or he managed to finish the leet geared guy off. Maybe it's the class as well? Whatever it is , gear helps them to survive more than their tanking skill tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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