indelible Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Getting stronger? You realize there are real competitive games where people actually have to practice to win right? You realize that a grind contest proves nothing other then the fact that you have more free time then someone else right? Gear intensive PVP is for people who don't want to actually learn a skill. They just want there to actually be a social benefit somewhere for being a loser with no life. Harsh and strong words. Also: PvP is about skill. Anyone who claims it is not is either (1) not a very good player at all, or (2) suffering from a severe deficit in observational skills. PvP can take GREAT skill. If it's not taking you skill to play the best you can, you're not playing the best you can. You're slacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 SC2 You will never run out of things to learn or players that are better than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Skilled PVP in TOR?? That ship set sail a long time ago and hit an iceberg..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessell Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Recent Level 50, grinded up and made it. this is the only reason i am playing this game - pvp -flash points are for people who have nothing to do. PvP offers good fun in 15 min increments. to bad it sucks, I have played huttball so many times I cringe when the guy makes his announcements. PVP in illum is so laggy it is hard to play. Once again, it is a grind for gear, and of course they make it so you have to play for weeks/months to get it. the entire time you are at a disadvantage to the people who live in the basement with no jobs and can grind that crap quickly. SO they kill you easily --you are doing your rotation, interrupting when you can, CCing if you have to - but just cannot do damage, yet they they hit you for 3k a pop. Then of course you have skill lag so you have to play 2 seconds behind at all times. The one with the best connection wins? this in turn pisses any competitive person off and you look for solutions. yet there are none. Then you have range classes that can hit you TWICE with lightning and kill you, and if you manage to get near them, well, they have 3 tools in their pockets to CC you etc. Classes are done pretty good in the game, yet there are some that are OP slightly right now. My opinion. No Skill Pvp= The real skill in pvp seems to be how to position yourself to get the most comms and the highest DPS, which in reality is easy. I laugh at people who play 15 min of huttball with only 50k damage and nothing else. what did you do for 15 min? I think this entire game i have yet to have a truely fair 1vs1 match. 2 guys with similar gear and nothing but your knowledge of the game and your character, guess that is why i like COD so much, quick easy, and no worries about the dude with 90% resist. basically, I am frustrated with the games PvP. I had high hopes based on the marketing and so far it is pretty disappointing. The /whine above are some of my concerns. I will of course try to get the gear I need, but when I do, - can i see some more warzones? how about some 2,3,5s like in wow? that is pretty fun. Or anything unique? You should try to get more than 6k hp. As a sorc, I can say with great certainty that the most I have ever seen a lightning ability hit for is 3k. I felt like I won the lottery the one time I actually hit for more than 3k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDFX Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) i wish you would pick which warzone you queue for so i wouldnt have to play the f****** huttball. Huttball sucks real hard it makes me want to kick a puppy. Hey now! The last thing we gamers need is PETA protesteing SWTOR republic with hot naked actresses laying on a street corner crying boo hoo... Er... Wait a minute. Every body go kick a puppy for Star Wars. Edited January 28, 2012 by SDFX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutee Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Gotta love all these bad players who need their gear crutch. Skill-based PvP shouldn't be restricted to RTS/FPS games. Gearing up is a VITAL part of an MMO, boo hoo you get farmed in the week it takes to get good enough gear to beat those you call unskilled, and are only winning because they outgear you. And if your immense skill doesn't make up for slightly lacking in gear, then perhaps you aren't as skilled as you believe you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Harsh and strong words. Also: PvP is about skill. Anyone who claims it is not is either (1) not a very good player at all, or (2) suffering from a severe deficit in observational skills. PvP can take GREAT skill. If it's not taking you skill to play the best you can, you're not playing the best you can. You're slacking. The reason for the harsh and strong words is that I am tired of these kinds of people ruining PVP for the rest of us. They ruin the PVP community too. All for the delusion that because they have a high expertise rating that they are somehow superior human beings, and anyone who's gear is not as good as theirs is a "scrub". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDFX Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 The reason for the harsh and strong words is that I am tired of these kinds of people ruining PVP for the rest of us. They ruin the PVP community too. All for the delusion that because they have a high expertise rating that they are somehow superior human beings, and anyone who's gear is not as good as theirs is a "scrub". But if it was about skill, then how would they ever be able to sell the game to spoiled little kids desperate to feel good about themselves for something at your expense while using their mom and dads money to do it? I mean that is the target audiance of the typical MMO release.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogmar Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Gearing up is a VITAL part of an MMO, boo hoo you get farmed in the week it takes to get good enough gear to beat those you call unskilled, and are only winning because they outgear you. And if your immense skill doesn't make up for slightly lacking in gear, then perhaps you aren't as skilled as you believe you are. I have over 600 Expertise, stop projecting baddie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalawaJoko Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) TextWait for GW2 buddy, wait for GW2. Edited January 28, 2012 by PalawaJoko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutee Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I have over 600 Expertise, stop projecting baddie. I'm not the one complaining about PvP gear making a difference in an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogmar Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I'm not the one complaining about PvP gear making a difference in an MMO. MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online, not Who Has Better Items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutee Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online, not Who Has Better Items. I said MMO instead of MMORPG. An MMO with static stat values that never change would crash and burn Edited January 28, 2012 by mutee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogmar Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 RPG means Role-Playing Game, none of the terms you've thrown up imply stat progression for PvP. Guild Wars didn't have stat progression, why didn't that game crash and burn? Use more terrible arguments please, good thing developers always make gear crutches for bads like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masturomenos Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Recent Level 50, grinded up and made it. this is the only reason i am playing this game - pvp -flash points are for people who have nothing to do. PvP offers good fun in 15 min increments. to bad it sucks, I have played huttball so many times I cringe when the guy makes his announcements. PVP in illum is so laggy it is hard to play. Once again, it is a grind for gear, and of course they make it so you have to play for weeks/months to get it. the entire time you are at a disadvantage to the people who live in the basement with no jobs and can grind that crap quickly. SO they kill you easily --you are doing your rotation, interrupting when you can, CCing if you have to - but just cannot do damage, yet they they hit you for 3k a pop. Then of course you have skill lag so you have to play 2 seconds behind at all times. The one with the best connection wins? this in turn pisses any competitive person off and you look for solutions. yet there are none. Then you have range classes that can hit you TWICE with lightning and kill you, and if you manage to get near them, well, they have 3 tools in their pockets to CC you etc. Classes are done pretty good in the game, yet there are some that are OP slightly right now. My opinion. No Skill Pvp= The real skill in pvp seems to be how to position yourself to get the most comms and the highest DPS, which in reality is easy. I laugh at people who play 15 min of huttball with only 50k damage and nothing else. what did you do for 15 min? I think this entire game i have yet to have a truely fair 1vs1 match. 2 guys with similar gear and nothing but your knowledge of the game and your character, guess that is why i like COD so much, quick easy, and no worries about the dude with 90% resist. basically, I am frustrated with the games PvP. I had high hopes based on the marketing and so far it is pretty disappointing. The /whine above are some of my concerns. I will of course try to get the gear I need, but when I do, - can i see some more warzones? how about some 2,3,5s like in wow? that is pretty fun. Or anything unique? Pvp is about skill but also about dedication and as good as people think they are that use the "gear excuse" they are not. To becme great at anything it takes work. You dont become the best race car driver to go race hondas off the sales floor. You work your way up to the best race cars (like pvp gear) that are all speced under a controlled enviroment (like expertise does) then you go racing to show whos the best driver when people are equal (only using pve gear wont balance anything since people dont all raid equal content) pvp gear is available to all. Just like the 24 hours of daytona on right now there are steps to the classes of drivers and cars. Just like the gt1 class races along the factory cars so do we pvp in different teir gear and just like the new drivers lose to the top dogs until they make their way thru the ranks so will everyone who pvps until thy reach max level and gear. The main thing is to STOP MAKIG EXCUSES dedicate yourself work your way up and learn to play your class and stop blaming pvp gear which has been and will be in mmos forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 RPG means Role-Playing Game, none of the terms you've thrown up imply stat progression for PvP. Guild Wars didn't have stat progression, why didn't that game crash and burn? Use more terrible arguments please, good thing developers always make gear crutches for bads like you. You are my hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MongooseEpsilon Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Wait for GW2 buddy, wait for GW2. This. I enjoy the PVP in TOR, below level 50, as a diversion. But the grind for gear is disappointing. I played GW1 extensively. When you lost matches, you lost because you, and your team, weren't as good. Progression is fine for PVE, but PVP is a competitive environment--it should be fair. If you make the PVP experience compelling, you don't need a grind to keep people playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 This. I enjoy the PVP in TOR, below level 50, as a diversion. But the grind for gear is disappointing. I played GW1 extensively. When you lost matches, you lost because you, and your team, weren't as good. Progression is fine for PVE, but PVP is a competitive environment--it should be fair. If you make the PVP experience compelling, you don't need a grind to keep people playing it. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masturomenos Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 RPG means Role-Playing Game, none of the terms you've thrown up imply stat progression for PvP. Guild Wars didn't have stat progression, why didn't that game crash and burn? Use more terrible arguments please, good thing developers always make gear crutches for bads like you. To your example of one game with a small population lets compare it to the biggest game that does have stat scaling and pvp gear and arena. No matter what u doubters say the truth is its the best the most popular and its because it has what you think wont work and they make it work. Stop using examples to suit your argument without examples to disprove it. Ever mmo coming out is supposed to change things but truth is if devs catered to the peple who "know it al" no one would play. Devs make games for one reason MONEY no ones giving you 100 million for your great ideas and never will. Its a business and you treat it as such and truth is your playing so your wiling to pay for a game you disagree with then play one that has what you want. So tell me whos the one doing things right again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutee Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 RPG means Role-Playing Game, none of the terms you've thrown up imply stat progression for PvP. Guild Wars didn't have stat progression, why didn't that game crash and burn? Use more terrible arguments please, good thing developers always make gear crutches for bads like you. Guild wars really didn't have any gear progression? I guess that explains why it wasn't that popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crustie Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Then you have range classes that can hit you TWICE with lightning and kill you, and if you manage to get near them, well, they have 3 tools in their pockets to CC you etc. Classes are done pretty good in the game, yet there are some that are OP slightly right now. My opinion. lol... i want to know what sorc is killing you in 2 shots.. as a 50 sorc with 500 expertise. i can't get anything higher then 3-3.5k hits. unless you have a health pool of 6-7k. which i know you don't.. then there is no way. even if you did.. sorc are not burst.. the best i can burst for is if i crit all 3: death field, chain lightning (if proc is up for instant), and shock. with respective 2.5k, 3.5k, 2k damage. so you are talking 8k dmg in 2 GCD. which i usually only use that combo on groups for a high AoE dmg spike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masturomenos Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Im an assassin i just killd a jugg they are underpowered then a overpowered operative killed me. So nerf operatives and juggs need a buff. Wow people sound so silly. The time you spend complaining you could spend learning how to beat the ones who beat you. Why do people get more satisfaction when they get a class nerfed then when they learn to beat the so called OP FOTM class? Makes no sense without a challenge what are we even here for. Go roll the OP class why complain all you want is to be OP so go do it. I forgot you want to be OP and not work for it and just get whateer class u leveled catered to. This game is great since everyone should hve every class as a toon you miss 3/4 of the experience playing 1/4 of the classes available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 To your example of one game with a small population lets compare it to the biggest game that does have stat scaling and pvp gear and arena. No matter what u doubters say the truth is its the best the most popular and its because it has what you think wont work and they make it work. Stop using examples to suit your argument without examples to disprove it. Ever mmo coming out is supposed to change things but truth is if devs catered to the peple who "know it al" no one would play. Devs make games for one reason MONEY no ones giving you 100 million for your great ideas and never will. Its a business and you treat it as such and truth is your playing so your wiling to pay for a game you disagree with then play one that has what you want. So tell me whos the one doing things right again? Oh and McDonalds has sold something like 476 billion burgers that if you use the term food loosely it would barley qualify.. Just cause it sold a lot does not mean its any good but generally a lemming such as yourself would never know if a bad game that was made for idiots was made for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kckkryptonite Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I wish PvP was about skill It is, until you hit 50. I prefer the 50's brax tbh. In the 1-49 brax on my alts, I find that a lot of players don't know what they're doing (more so than the 50 brax anyways), queue up at level 11 and spam their basic ranged attack, lack a lot of their abilities possibly causing one side to be imbalanced. I feel like I'm just n00bstomping in the 1-49. Capping a turret, scoring, or planting a bomb in the 50's brax feels so much more rewarding. People die much slower in the 50's brax and are generally more organized. I think that's a good thing. So personally, no. I main a Shadow and I am not foregoing the 50's bracket for easier PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MongooseEpsilon Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Guild wars really didn't have any gear progression? I guess that explains why it wasn't that popular. It did have a small gear progression, just not in PVP. Those who PVPed a lot got gear that looked better, but was functionally the same (they also got a high ladder ranking and won tournaments if they were good). In PVE, gear progressed but it was pretty easy to get gear with the best stats. In GW, most of the rewards gave your character status and looks, but not actually a competitive advantage. GW wasn't as popular as WOW because its PVE wasn't as good, and PVE players are the bulk of MMO players. It had a vibrant PVP community, to the point that cash prizes were being awarded to tournament winners years after the game released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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