No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[Ariadna]

my ignore list is filled with people who love to roll need on every item.

 

 

it is common sense, you roll need for items you will use,wear on your character. greed for anything else.

[joriandrake]

If you only Need to tear the mods out and sell them I am against it, but if one Needs it to use it for themselves it is fine by me, even if it is an Agent uniform for a Marauder as both use medium armor, in fact I think most medium armor on imperial side look ugly (or more precize, most Sith armor). I remember I used the Black Talon armor that was "meant" for agents for over 20 levels with mods swapped in it.

 

edit: needing it for a companion should only be done if no one else needs it for their own use.

Edited January 30, 2012 by joriandrake

[ispanolfw]

Yeah, excerpt from someone on the previous thread

 

 

 

See? They do, in the name of customizability. The argument is that it's OK to ignore the fact that you're also rolling on the mods within the item, because the item allows you to take those mods out, discard them, and replace them with your own, despite the fact they all drop as one piece. In any other game, this would be a greed roll, hands down, no questions asked. You're rolling on the the item as-is.

 

But here people seem to think it's different.

 

In any case, you've got people accusing others of taking a moral high ground, who are subsequently taking one themselves, and twisting the Need/Greed system (that works fine when you lay down the ground rules ahead of time), into one that vilifies people who collectively agree to abide by it's principles.

 

So most of the argument here ends up boiling down into why Need/Greed is bad/good and why a flat roll/pass should be done instead.

 

Honestly it shouldn't even be a debate. A flat roll/pass is perfectly reasonable and should be added...

 

...as an option so parties can easily choose what fits their style best.

 

I hope you guys get what you want and roll/pass is added in as an additional loot option, I really do. That way you form your own parties where everyone has an equal shot at everything that drops, regardless of your class. I totally understand the sentiment.

 

But when Need/Greed is the method of choice, right now, for that particular party, then you have to communicate for 5 minutes before the flashpoint and figure out your policies.

 

But whatever you do, don't silently sulk in the shadows, waiting to impose your personal belief that you're entitled to roll Need on everything that drops, regardless of what it is, simply because you helped.

 

That just isn't how Need/Greed works. It sucks, but if your party has elected to use the system as it was intended, you need to respect that, and leave the party. Find a group of like-minded folks that share your attitudes.

 

Otherwise, you're being incredibly rude. If you can't see this, then a different loot system isn't going to help you.

 

An attitude adjustment will.

 

It's OK to not like something. But don't ruin it for people that do.

 

I still cannot agree that onus of speaking up is placed on the person operating within the games guidelines. You have different priority rolls and pass. Since they are called Need and Greed with no other description in the manual other than that if you want a higher chance to get the item, hit Need, what those mean is up to the player. And that will most certainly be different between people. The problem lies then with the ones who feel need should be restricted to the way they see it. At that point, if you wish for anything more restrictive than that, I say speak up. Otherwise that's how the system works. If you feel you need it, or want it rather, and want the best chance to get it, you hit need.

[_Ender__Wiggin_]

my ignore list is filled with people who love to roll need on every item.

 

 

it is common sense, you roll need for items you will use,wear on your character. greed for anything else.

 

None care about your ignore list or how you police your video game.

 

Common sense is subjective. One rolls need on items they will use? Use in what way? Does that define companion use? Sale use? Greed for which else? What definitions does greed imply?

 

Ugh, your post is so confusing.

[Ariadna]

I still cannot agree that onus of speaking up is placed on the person operating within the games guidelines. You have different priority rolls and pass. Since they are called Need and Greed with no other description in the manual other than that if you want a higher chance to get the item, hit Need, what those mean is up to the player. And that will most certainly be different between people. The problem lies then with the ones who feel need should be restricted to the way they see it. At that point, if you wish for anything more restrictive than that, I say speak up. Otherwise that's how the system works. If you feel you need it, or want it rather, and want the best chance to get it, you hit need.

 

with that mentality of yours, i predict you to have a very rough time , finding groups. you probably end up on every player's ignore list.

[ispanolfw]

If you only Need to tear the mods out and sell them I am against it, but if one Needs it to use it for themselves it is fine by me, even if it is an Agent uniform for a Marauder as both use medium armor, in fact I think most medium armor on imperial side look ugly (or more precize, most Sith armor). I remember I used the Black Talon armor that was "meant" for agents for over 20 levels with mods swapped in it.

 

For me personally, I usually do not roll need on much of anything. Nothing so far in fact. All the looks items I've wanted for my character have been low level items, like the Marauder Chest from Black Talon. How I wish I had an all black version of that. But If I saw something that I wanted that was say an IA piece(eww no I never would, but if) and I felt it would just look so awesome on my character, I would consider rolling need on it, unless of course I had agreed to more restrictive rules someone else spoke up about. And even then, it's still only a consideration, and if the mods in were useful for a companion that's where they would go when removed.

[ispanolfw]

with that mentality of yours, i predict you to have a very rough time , finding groups. you probably end up on every player's ignore list.

 

Guess I haven't had that issue in over 8 years of playing MMOs. Easy time actually.

[Ariadna]

None care about your ignore list or how you police your video game.

 

Common sense is subjective. One rolls need on items they will use? Use in what way? Does that define companion use? Sale use? Greed for which else? What definitions does greed imply?

 

Ugh, your post is so confusing.

 

exactly, some players are good and decent ,both as gamers and in irl. and others are lame and greedy jerks.

[ispanolfw]

exactly, some players are good and decent ,both as gamers and in irl. and others are lame and greedy jerks.

 

Good thing i'm not one of those, but yet you still accuse me of such. Just because I understand and accept the system for what it is, doesn't mean I blindly follow it and hit need for every single item that drops.

 

And you didn't really answer his question. Who gets to decide what constitutes a need for any given person? You? Or are they allowed to make their own choice as to what they need.

Edited January 30, 2012 by ispanolfw

[_Ender__Wiggin_]

exactly, some players are good and decent ,both as gamers and in irl. and others are lame and greedy jerks.

 

I think you're making the mistake of equating one's actions in a video game as indicative of one's actions in real life. They're not relative.

[Ariadna]

Good thing i'm not one of those, but yet you still accuse me of such. Just because I understand and accept the system for what it is, doesn't mean I blindly follow it and hit need for every single item that drops.

 

im not saying you do, but you justify them. that is like saying

 

" i dont steal but hey, is ok if people do it because they can". we could use the same analogy.

 

ofcourse this is a MMO we are talking and not real life. but there is something very basic , called . courtesy , ( wich applies in RL and a MMO with RL people behind their computers) the moment we start to think, anything goes, everything is valid just because we can. is the moment we stop acting like decent human beings.

 

i like to apply my own personal code. treat others the way you want to be treated.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Ariadna

[ispanolfw]

im not saying you do, but you justify them. that is like saying

 

" i dont steal but hey, is ok if people do it because they can". we could use the same analogy.

 

Or you could use a better one. You can't easily compare the real world to a virtual world. You may feel like you should be able to, but it just doesn't really work out that way. The real world, for example this country, there are laws and such made by the people/government(or at least that's how it should be if it isn't, or so i'm lead to believe) but in the world that is this game, those do not apply whatsoever. In fact, in game, murder is actually quite common outside of the actual war. Theft is to.

[iheartnyc]

I think you're making the mistake of equating one's actions in a video game as indicative of one's actions in real life. They're not relative.

 

Hrm actually there are a lot of psychological studies done on people's behavior online and its correlation to real life. And I mean beyond simply "games make people violent" crap. Stuff like, who rolls good characters vs. bad and why.

[ispanolfw]

Hrm actually there are a lot of psychological studies done on people's behavior online and its correlation to real life. And I mean beyond simply "games make people violent" crap. Stuff like, who rolls good characters vs. bad and why.

 

While in no way legitimate at all to this, it just reminds me of John Gabriel's Greater Internet ****wad Theory

[crica]

treat others the way you want to be treated

 

I like to be yelled at.

 

Guess I should yell at everyone?

 

I also like everyone to allow me to decide for myself what items I need.

 

Guess I should allow everyone else to decide for themselves what items they need as well!

 

Works for me!

Edited January 30, 2012 by crica

[Ariadna]

Or you could use a better one. You can't easily compare the real world to a virtual world. You may feel like you should be able to, but it just doesn't really work out that way. The real world, for example this country, there are laws and such made by the people/government(or at least that's how it should be if it isn't, or so i'm lead to believe) but in the world that is this game, those do not apply whatsoever. In fact, in game, murder is actually quite common outside of the actual war. Theft is to.

 

just because is a game, does not mean, we all should act and behave like mega ultra Jerks. if that happens, that would be the end of the whole mmo genre, because i assure you, most people would stick to playing single player games, and rather save their 15 euros monthly.

 

we make our own laws in a MMO. wich are mostly mirrored by common sense, RL norms, values. there are things wich are accepted, tolerated by the majority and others , that aren't.

 

if a person has a low education, very low values. it is very likely he or she will reflect that behavior in a mmo.

[ispanolfw]

just because is a game, does not mean, we all should act and behave like mega ultra Jerks. if that happens, that would be the end of the whole mmo genre, because i assure you, most people would stick to playing single player games, and rather save their 15 euros monthly.

 

we make our own laws in a MMO. wich are mostly mirrored by common sense, RL norms, values. there are things wich are accepted, tolerated by the majority and others , that aren't.

 

if a person has a low education, very low values. it is very likely he or she will reflect that behavior in a mmo.

 

And yet, i'm not advocating people act like "jerks" as you put it. I'm only saying that if how you view loot "rules" is different than what the game provides, speak up. Don't go expecting everyone to automatically feel exactly the same way and then start kicking and badmouthing them later when they roll for something they felt was need worthy.

 

It's a bit hard to compare like this, but let me give it a shot. Say in real life you have 4 people go and do some group contest together. Say there is a reward for completing this contest, but it's only one thing. And this one thing will be given to one of the people at random, is it ok for you to go and say that you should get it because you feel you can use it more? What if someone else in the group thinks they can use it more, but for a different reason than yours?

 

Now the problem with this comparison is that they can freely give it to one of the other members if they want. They can also agree ahead of time what to do with the item if they win... wait you can do that in game too. But would you really be silent and then when you win, demand it should go to you since you feel you would get more use out of it?

 

And I know that comparison isn't all that great. But do you really feel it's ok to tell someone else that what they feel is worthy of a need is wrong? It's really ok for you to tell someone they are playing wrong? When they are paying for the same privilege to play as you are? Because that's what many in here are saying.

Edited January 30, 2012 by ispanolfw

[Varghjerta]

Hrm actually there are a lot of psychological studies done on people's behavior online and its correlation to real life. And I mean beyond simply "games make people violent" crap. Stuff like, who rolls good characters vs. bad and why.

 

It is not just on the internet as an old Chef i can easily say that secretaries are the worst costumers you can get

 

Basicly it really shines trough that once a year when they get treated to a dinner they suddenly find out how to release the valve for all the crap they got under a year all in one go

Using the people that works there and serves theire food as theire main focus

 

I basicly think alot of people turns into degenerates when they feel they can be that disregarding where and when just using it as a release for things they are miscontent about .

 

But then aswell you have the pure selfish individual aswell that just can't play nice with other people in that mix

Edited January 30, 2012 by Varghjerta

[Ariadna]

I like to be yelled at.

 

Guess I should yell at everyone?

 

I also like everyone to allow me to decide for myself what items I need.

 

Guess I should allow everyone else to decide for themselves what items they need as well!

 

Works for me!

 

then group with your friends only, and people who already know the way you are, and you can yell at them from dawn to dusk all you want.

 

you are free to be a greedy roll need for all kind of person. but be willing to accept the consequences of your acts.

[crica]

mostly mirrored by common sense

 

If this was true then ppl would have the common sense to ask what the loot rules are going to be when they join a group and then staying in the group (if the loot rules are what they want) or leaving the group and finding/making another group(if the loot rules are not what they want) instead of crossing their fingers and hoping everyone wants to use the same loot rules they want to use and then get upset AFTER the loot drops.

[PsilosLon]

In my book, grabbing items that don't belong to you (i.e. poor manners) is in accordance with the psychological profile of the majority of the players who choose to play Empire side (=wannabe "baddies").

With that in mind, you could say that a sith marauder or a bounty hunter needing other people's loot is actually a touch of RP (=taking all I can with no respect to others) in the game... :p:p:p

[crica]

then group with your friends only, and people who already know the way you are, and you can yell at them from dawn to dusk all you want.

 

you are free to be a greedy roll need for all kind of person. but be willing to accept the consequences of your acts.

 

YOU are the one who told me to yell at everyone... "treat everyone the way I want to be treated"... I want to be yelled at by everyone so I should yell at everyone!!

 

Yes, I am free to decide for myself what items I need or not, and so are you - we both have the option to roll Need if we both decide we need the item - the dice will decide who has to run the instance again.

 

Why do you think YOU should be the one to decide who has to run the instance again and the not the dice?

Edited January 30, 2012 by crica

[Ariadna]

And yet, i'm not advocating people act like "jerks" as you put it. I'm only saying that if how you view loot "rules" is different than what the game provides, speak up. Don't go expecting everyone to automatically feel exactly the same way and then start kicking and badmouthing them later when they roll for something they felt was need worthy.

 

oh believe me, ignore works miracles. specially in a game where grouping becomes an odyssey.

 

the badmouthing part is the outcome you get as the end result of your behavior. and word of mouth spreads quite fast. so if you earned a reputation as a ninja looter. you will probably end up finding groups very hard.

[crica]

needing other people's loot

 

No one owns any loot that drops until it is won by a dice roll - ppl are ELIGIBLE to WIN the loot, but they do not OWN the loot until they WIN the dice roll.

 

If the loot was owned by someone, the game would have placed the loot drops directly in their bags instead of waiting for a dice roll to determine who owns the loot.

Edited January 30, 2012 by crica

[ispanolfw]

In my book, grabbing items that don't belong to you (i.e. poor manners) is in accordance with the psychological profile of the majority of the players who choose to play Empire side (=wannabe "baddies").

With that in mind, you could say that a sith marauder or a bounty hunter needing other people's loot is actually a touch of RP (=taking all I can with no respect to others) in the game... :p:p:p

 

No item belongs to me until it hits my inventory. Same applies to you and everyone else.