No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[MaxonJaxon]

I think people just like to play a sociopath because there are no consequences for being one in game.

 

If they do this in real life they know they will either get ejected from the store or get their asses kicked by the people in front of them.

 

Yes and this could sort of happen in a computer game as well (get kicked from group, get a bad reputation), when the game has a norm and someone is not following it.

[owenthorn]

the game does not have any "norm", that is you pushing your belief/morals/ideals of a system on others and claiming it as a "law" that must be obeyed or you are a "ninja" and I must tell everyone about you, because you do not hold my beliefs as sacred, pathetic really,

 

that means your opinion of it, doesn't matter, you don't make the rules, period, full stop

 

what you are trying to do is stand there watching the line and deciding who should go next, regardless of how the line is formed, you want to decide who gets to the cashier based on what you think is proper

[Grecanis]

Your use of 'norm' is fine. The whole point is; The norm would be you roll and I roll and who-ever wins wins. But what is being demanded in this thread is that players not roll how they wish and let others get a higher chance of winning gear.

 

That is not norm, that is greed.

 

The norm would recognise the game mechanic ...If you need and item roll need. If you want an item, roll greed.

 

The issue arrises when some fail to understand the difference.

 

aesthetics are a want ..not a need.

[MaxonJaxon]

Your use of 'norm' is fine. The whole point is; The norm would be you roll and I roll and who-ever wins wins. But what is being demanded in this thread is that players not roll how they wish and let others get a higher chance of winning gear.

 

That is not norm, that is greed.

 

Okey, but what I was disagreeing with from the beginning was that someone said something like:

 

BioWare have not given any rules on how to distribute loot so there can be no unwritten rules.

 

Do you agree or disagree with that? Or to put it in other terms; Do you in the beginning of every pick up group have to establish all the rules for the FP or whatever?

[Setanian]

The norm would recognise the game mechanic ...If you need and item roll need. If you want an item, roll greed.

 

The issue arrises when some fail to understand the difference.

 

aesthetics are a want ..not a need.

 

Where does it say that? If I need something to make me look cool, I need it. Who decided that I don't have that choice?

[Setanian]

Okey, but what I was disagreeing with from the beginning was that someone said something like:

 

BioWare have not given any rules on how to distribute loot so there can be no unwritten rules.

 

Do you agree or disagree with that? Or to put it in other terms; Do you in the beginning of every pick up group have to establish all the rules for the FP or whatever?

 

Bioware didn't and never will.

 

For one simple reason. At the end of the pug and the boss is killed, everyone that took part, gets and equal choice to roll on the loot.

 

No publisher is going to suddenly change that and insist you not roll and give the loot to someone else. They'd lose many, many subscribers.

 

What they can do, is make certain loot class specific by putting it as <Sage Only> or whatever.

 

Other than that, what is happening here is that people are trying to demand that everyone conform to their accepted 'need before greed' principle. And in addition to that, they are trying to demand that when they use the term 'need' it has to fall within certain parameters. Their parameters.

 

This whole debate is about; If I want to need an item, i have every entitlement to need it. Everything else, is none of anyones business. But, some people here think that the loot is theirs regardless of roll or regardless of choice.

[MaxonJaxon]

the game does not have any "norm", that is you pushing your belief/morals/ideals of a system on others and claiming it as a "law" that must be obeyed or you are a "ninja" and I must tell everyone about you, because you do not hold my beliefs as sacred, pathetic really,

 

that means your opinion of it, doesn't matter, you don't make the rules, period, full stop

 

what you are trying to do is stand there watching the line and deciding who should go next, regardless of how the line is formed, you want to decide who gets to the cashier based on what you think is proper

 

Who are you talking about? Since your using the queue reference it feels like you're talking about me, have I tried to push my believes on someone? Who? Where? In any case calling anyone pathetic is not nice and you shouldn't do that

 

(See what i did there? )

Edited January 29, 2012 by MaxonJaxon
wrote athletic instead of pathetic

[Grecanis]

Where does it say that? If I need something to make me look cool, I need it. Who decided that I don't have that choice?

 

That special look won't give the extra kick needed to down that boss ..only stats will do that.

 

Saying that you need to look "cool" doesn't change that fact.

 

You can go back and get that "look" anytime. The stats needed at that time are only availabe at that time.

[MaxonJaxon]

Bioware didn't and never will.

 

For one simple reason. At the end of the pug and the boss is killed, everyone that took part, gets and equal choice to roll on the loot.

 

No publisher is going to suddenly change that and insist you not roll and give the loot to someone else. They'd lose many, many subscribers.

 

What they can do, is make certain loot class specific by putting it as <Sage Only> or whatever.

 

Other than that, what is happening here is that people are trying to demand that everyone conform to their accepted 'need before greed' principle. And in addition to that, they are trying to demand that when they use the term 'need' it has to fall within certain parameters. Their parameters.

 

This whole debate is about; If I want to need an item, i have every entitlement to need it. Everything else, is none of anyones business. But, some people here think that the loot is theirs regardless of roll or regardless of choice.

 

Again, I know that the debate is about what the norm should be, what i was turning against was someone saying a norm could not exist because BW explicitly hadn't stated a norm. But you think that a norm can exist anyway right?

[Grecanis]

For one simple reason. At the end of the pug and the boss is killed, everyone that took part, gets and equal choice to roll on the loot.

 

Only if everyone rolls need.

 

..because obviously that's what you're going to do wheter you actually need it or not.

[Setanian]

That special look won't give the extra kick needed to down that boss ..only stats will do that.

 

Saying that you need to look "cool" doesn't change that fact.

 

You can go back and get that "look" anytime. The stats needed at that time are only availabe at that time.

 

And the event is over. The boss is down. We all get to roll on the loot. Why should you have some privilege that allows you to tell me how I should or should not roll?

 

The answer is, you don't, and never will. It is my decision how I roll. What I do with whatever I win, is my business. You got your roll, and won or lost. End of story.

[Setanian]

Only if everyone rolls need.

 

..because obviously that's what you're going to do wheter you actually need it or not.

 

No.. You got your choice to roll how you want to. If you needed it, you roll need. If not, pass or greed.

 

Just let's make one thing certain here. I don't always roll need. But! I roll how I please at that given moment in time. And no-one, here or anywhere else, has any right to deny me that entitlement. If I *choose* to let you have it, you should be saying thank you.

[Grecanis]

And the event is over. The boss is down. We all get to roll on the loot. Why should you have some privilege that allows you to tell me how I should or should not roll?

 

The answer is, you don't, and never will. It is my decision how I roll. What I do with whatever I win, is my business. You got your roll, and won or lost. End of story.

 

As long as there are dishonorable folks out there the story will never end.

 

To use your arguement ... You're saying that your hedonistic desires trump those of a more respectful mindframe?

[sjmc]

That special look won't give the extra kick needed to down that boss ..only stats will do that.

The boss is already dead. That is why we are rolling on loot. If we are talking about a future boss, that would depend on what each player is planning to do next -- it might be several levels before some players face another "big boss", or it might not.

 

Saying that you need to look "cool" doesn't change that fact.

 

You can go back and get that "look" anytime. The stats needed at that time are only availabe at that time.

Conversely, with respect to orange gear, you can only get that particular look from this item. Mods are available all over the place -- you can even sell your other loot to buy some on the GTN. Mods are interchangeable. Appearance is not.

 

If the item is not orange and for the wrong class, then the player would be gimping himself to wear it for appearance. However, orange gear (unless it is the wrong armor type) is easily switchable to the right class, so can be worn as part of your battle outfit.

Edited January 29, 2012 by sjmc

[Grecanis]

No.. You got your choice to roll how you want to. If you needed it, you roll need. If not, pass or greed.

 

Just let's make one thing certain here. I don't always roll need. But! I roll how I please at that given moment in time. And no-one, here or anywhere else, has any right to deny me that entitlement. If I *choose* to let you have it, you should be saying thank you.

 

I haven't seen a single post stating that you do not have the right to roll as you like. I have seen many asking you to reconsider that position.

 

You are not being denied anything ...but your stated intentions will at some point deny someone else of something they truely need just to satisfy your desire to "look cool".

[sjmc]

I haven't seen a single post stating that you do not have the right to roll as you like. I have seen many asking you to reconsider that position.

 

You are not being denied anything ...but your stated intentions will at some point deny someone else of something they truely need just to satisfy your desire to "look cool".

We are talking about denying someone some mods. Mods are easy to get.

[Setanian]

I haven't seen a single post stating that you do not have the right to roll as you like. I have seen many asking you to reconsider that position.

 

You are not being denied anything ...but your stated intentions will at some point deny someone else of something they truely need just to satisfy your desire to "look cool".

 

If at any time I 'feel' that someone would get more use of an item than me, my companion or whatever, I typically let the loot go.

 

How-ever, that's by my choice.

 

This thread is a statement of fact that ' No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods'.

 

That is wholly incorrect and has no basis in fact. It is a wish by some, that others conform to it. It can, and never will be, a requirement. People may ask at the outset of a pug the loot rules, and that's fine. I will leave any pug that places demands on my choices.

[Grecanis]

Conversely, with respect to orange gear, you can only get that particular look from this item. Mods are available all over the place -- you can even sell your other loot to buy some on the GTN. Mods are interchangeable. Appearance is not.

 

So then go back and farm the instance later ...that look will still be there. Meanwhile the player who got trumped out of his stats will have to find another way to get them ..so they can go back and farm, or better contribute on the next boss, etc.

[desertwolph]

I love these threads. You always see words like morals, greedy and such. All for wanting a chance to get loot items in a game. Because someone else thinks they are more deserving.

 

 

I myself, will roll on anything I need.

Edited January 29, 2012 by desertwolph

[Grecanis]

If at any time I 'feel' that someone would get more use of an item than me, my companion or whatever, I typically let the loot go.

 

How-ever, that's by my choice.

 

This thread is a statement of fact that ' No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods'.

 

That is wholly incorrect and has no basis in fact. It is a wish by some, that others conform to it. It can, and never will be, a requirement. People may ask at the outset of a pug the loot rules, and that's fine. I will leave any pug that places demands on my choices.

 

You are correct in that the title overstates intent of the mechanic. It should have used the word "should" instead of "may".

 

But I fully believe that because some of the more dishonorable among us can't or won't play respectfully, it will become an actual requierment at some point.

[LogicalPremise]

Ah, me.

 

So, Bioware. Look.

 

When you redesign the loot system, because it's clear it needs a redesign when you have otherwise intelligent people, many who I suspect to have master's degrees like my own, reduced to arguing the definition of a word we learned in PRE-K ...

 

Can we get a more coherent system than the one we have?

 

1) First, orange gear needs to drop for each player without mods loaded for all bosses.

2) Second, mods should be roll/pass, and no stats locked until whoever wins the roll takes it. For example, a +20/20 End Mod that is cunning if a BH wins, strength if a Jugg wins, and Wisdom if a Sorc wins. Making these roll/pass to avoid issues about your use for it.

3) Third, make competitive and tailored companion gear available along with customization. Your current system basically makes people have to gear themselves twice and it's inevitable that some people will try to do that through FP or OP loot.

4) Finally, lock all blue and purple content to specific classes.

[face_hindu]

I love these threads. You always see words like morals, greedy and such. All for wanting a chance to get loot item in a game. Because someone else thinks they are more deserving.

 

 

I myself, will roll on anything I need.

 

Oh really? What does your raid group think about that? lol

 

Allow me to clarify: say a Light robe drops, with WP and End, good upgrade for your healer, and there are no other clothies in the group. Guess what? The healer is more deserving of that gear than anyone else in the group.

 

The guild and community you are part of is a complete joke, if they allow you to ninja gear in raids.

Edited January 29, 2012 by face_hindu
clarification

[Talkative]

I just roll need on everything when pugging.

 

Pre-empting everyone else.

[Setanian]

As long as there are dishonorable folks out there the story will never end.

 

To use your arguement ... You're saying that your hedonistic desires trump those of a more respectful mindframe?

 

Do your in-game desires trump mine? If so, why?

[ArtMonster]

I love these threads. You always see words like morals, greedy and such. All for wanting a chance to get loot items in a game. Because someone else thinks they are more deserving.

 

 

I myself, will roll on anything I need.

 

amen.