Ariadna Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 No one owns any loot that drops until it is won by a dice roll. If it was owned, it would have been in their bags already. well good luck, grouping. i hope you find, likeminded people like you. make sure you let them know ahead of time, that you intend to roll need on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispanolfw Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 oh believe me, ignore works miracles. specially in a game where grouping becomes an odyssey. the badmouthing part is the outcome you get as the end result of your behavior. and word of mouth spreads quite fast. so if you earned a reputation as a ninja looter. you will probably end up finding groups very hard. And you still don't get it. You cannot expect unwritten rules to automatically apply. There is no way to know the other person knows or even agrees or follows them without speaking up prior. So if you DON'T say anything about loot rules prior, and just run with it. And then proceed to badmouth say a Marauder who needs on an IA chest piece because they love the look of it and prioritize that over stats, how can you not see yourself as the one with poor behavior? You said nothing about restricting drops based on stats, yet still berate someone for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispanolfw Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 well good luck, grouping. i hope you find, likeminded people like you. make sure you let them know ahead of time, that you intend to roll need on everything. Understanding what theft and ownership are and are not, is not synonymous with "rolling need on everything" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) well good luck, grouping. i hope you find, likeminded people like you. make sure you let them know ahead of time, that you intend to roll need on everything. There is nothing to "let them know". Everyone knows before they ever join a group that they have to roll the dice to see if they win the loot. If they want everyone in the group to PASS on loot they want, THEY need to ask the group if they mind doing so. Edited January 30, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariadna Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 And you still don't get it. You cannot expect unwritten rules to automatically apply. There is no way to know the other person knows or even agrees or follows them without speaking up prior. So if you DON'T say anything about loot rules prior, and just run with it. And then proceed to badmouth say a Marauder who needs on an IA chest piece because they love the look of it and prioritize that over stats, how can you not see yourself as the one with poor behavior? You said nothing about restricting drops based on stats, yet still berate someone for it. ofcourse there is. this is why anyone with a bit of common sense, would explain the rules before going into the FP. you can also avoid PUG, you could keep grouping only with people you know, or you could avoid grouping alltogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) anyone with a bit of common sense, would explain the rules I am sure you mean they would "ASK" the group members if they would mind PASSING loot they want to them if it HAPPENS to drop. As you can see by this thread, no, alot of ppl don't do that - they just EXPECT other ppl to pass loot to them and if they don't, well then they will get mad and throw a fit or refuse to play with them again. Edited January 30, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariadna Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Understanding what theft and ownership are and are not, is not synonymous with "rolling need on everything" sometimes people dont say anything, because maybe they think, they already know this? it is common sense afterall. Edited January 30, 2012 by Ariadna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispanolfw Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 ofcourse there is. this is why anyone with a bit of common sense, would explain the rules before going into the FP. you can also avoid PUG, you could keep grouping only with people you know, or you could avoid grouping alltogether. And I already stated countless times, if you have views on loot different from what the game provides, say so prior to the run. Because the system already works in a fashion you dislike, and you are the one wanting a change, you are the most likely candidate to speak up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) sometimes people dont say anything, because maybe they think, they already know this? Already know what? That you want me to pass loot to you? Nope, not unless you ask me. No, it is not common sense to expect others to be able to read your mind. Speak up - ask ppl to pass you loot if that is what you want, and then they WILL know. Edited January 30, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispanolfw Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 sometimes people dont say anything, because maybe they think, they already know this? it is common sense afterall. Or maybe they think the system affords everyone in the group the same opportunity to roll how they choose and that people who disagree will say something. I understand both sides wanting the other side to speak up. But you want the change in the given allowances to restrict to per class stats only or whatever. You want the change. You speak up. Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariadna Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 And I already stated countless times, if you have views on loot different from what the game provides, say so prior to the run. Because the system already works in a fashion you dislike, and you are the one wanting a change, you are the most likely candidate to speak up. i wont ever have this problem, personally. because i never group with people i dont know. i always group with guildies and friends. and yes i agree with you, if you doing a pug, you should always speak up to avoid unwanted drama afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispanolfw Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ok time for sleep, 3 AM and I need to support console gamers in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varghjerta Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 i would call it common courtesy. For example the same way that i dont spit on busses/public transport i treat the people i ride with /play with with descent courtesy. For example not rolling need on OS and for Companions thanks to I have a main specc that i have joined the group for, and that i don't use companions in groups. So why should i roll need for gear for companions that i only use for SOlOING over someone that will use it in group content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 More subjective opinion based on zero fact. You want fact? Try it, just once...walk in to a group and roll need on things that are not your class that is rare or above. See how long it takes before you get kicked from said team, or cussed out for it. That is all the fact I need. This isn't science here, man. It's common sense. Why do people, who supposedly posses (all humans in general, or do we want facts for that too?!?!?) average intelligence, need "facts" for things that are considered "common sense"? Seriously?!?!? It is common sense that if you stick your hand in a fire, it will burn...you want facts for that too? People just blow me away with the lack of common sense. What do people do, trade in common sense for intelligence? If so, maybe we should slow down a bit and let our brains come back to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariadna Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 i would call it common courtesy. For example the same way that i dont spit on busses/public transport i treat the people i ride with /play with with descent courtesy. For example not rolling need on OS and for Companions thanks to I have a main specc that i have joined the group for, and that i don't use companions in groups. So why should i roll need for gear for companions that i only use for SOlOING over someone that will use it in group content. some people are just way too greedy. they would roll need for all, just because they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) i would call it common courtesy. For example the same way that i dont spit on busses/public transport i treat the people i ride with /play with with descent courtesy. For example not rolling need on OS and for Companions thanks to I have a main specc that i have joined the group for, and that i don't use companions in groups. So why should i roll need for gear for companions that i only use for SOlOING over someone that will use it in group content. I would call it common courtesy to allow everyone who just ran the group content to decide for themselves what items they need - just like the loot system is set up for - and if anyone disagrees with the loot system, for them to speak up before the group runs the content, so the group can decide as a group if they would like to use a different loot system. Edited January 30, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariadna Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I would call it common courtesy to allow everyone who just ran the group content to decide for themselves what items they need - just like the loot system is set up for - and if anyone disagrees with the loot system, to speak up before the group runs the content, so the group can decide as a group if they agree or not. then let them know ahead of time, you want to roll need for all. if they are ok with this, you got nothing to worry about it. otherwise you are nothing but a ninja looter, and the chances that you will be ignored by everyone in the entire server, will be very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) then let them know ahead of time Who? Me? I am not the one wanting to use a different loot system then the game's default grouping loot system - the players who want to use a different loot system need to speak up. Edited January 30, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funus Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 After reading few pages of this thread, I'm really glad I mostly play with friends. It does make me wonder what causes this kind of behavior though, I certainly don't remember seeing it nearly as often back in the older days when I played some of the first MMO's. Few posts actually made me think if there are people who do this to their friends and guild too and bring up the same arguments when confronted about it. Surely, I can't be the only person who generally doesn't do to strangers what I wouldn't do to people I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Who? Me? I am not the one wanting to use a different loot system then the game's default grouping loot system - the players who want to use a different loot system need to speak up. OMG! How about No!?!? It would take forever to cover the basis of the loot system "rule" and how to roll. How about this, if you are the type to roll need on stuff you are just going to sell or give to your pet, you simply tell the group you are this way. Since EVERY SINGLE PERSON I have ever ran quests/missions with use the same "rule" system that I do. It is the rare occasion that somebody roles in and starts needing on everything. I find it crazy that we should even be discussing this in the first place. It just shows me how selfish people really are. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I can't be the only person who generally doesn't do to strangers what I wouldn't do to people I know. I would speak up in any group I form/join if I wanted to use a different loot system then the game's default group loot system regardless if you are a stranger to me or a friend of mine. I like the default group loot system, however, so there is no need for me to ask for the loot system to be changed in any group I form/join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varghjerta Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I would call it common courtesy to allow everyone who just ran the group content to decide for themselves what items they need - just like the loot system is set up for - and if anyone disagrees with the loot system, for them to speak up before the group runs the content, so the group can decide as a group if they would like to use a different loot system. Actually that is like saying it should be socially acceptable spitting on public transports thanks to that every person should follow what they think are socially acceptable. In a way the way you are discussing now is that you expect that there should be no "rules" and instead it should start with the lowest form of roll need on every drop and take it from there while calling that common courtesy which just means every man/women for himself While the other side say start from the other side . MS before OS /companion (which is usually a common practise in MMO's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 After reading few pages of this thread, I'm really glad I mostly play with friends. It does make me wonder what causes this kind of behavior though, I certainly don't remember seeing it nearly as often back in the older days when I played some of the first MMO's. Few posts actually made me think if there are people who do this to their friends and guild too and bring up the same arguments when confronted about it. Surely, I can't be the only person who generally doesn't do to strangers what I wouldn't do to people I know. Because if they did this crap to their guild mates, they would find themselves guildless really quick. (And here we go, I just know *somebody* is going to say that they *do* do this to their guild...here it comes...) /rolls eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) How about No!?!? It would take forever to cover the basis of the loot system "rule" and how to roll. And how long it takes is not anyone's problem but the player who wants the rules to be changed. If you want the loot system to be changed in the group from the default, then speak up or accept the default loot system or leave. Edited January 30, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 In a way the way you are discussing now is that you expect that there should be no "rules" There are already "rules" - the default group loot system. If you want "different rules" to be used, speak up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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