Edex Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Thread title says it all. Everyone screaming for nerfs, please explain how you arrive at these conclusions without any combat log or parsed data? If you're going by how you "feel," or what you've apparently experienced in PvP, aren't you guilty of the exact same thing some of you accuse the Devs of doing? Making balance adjustments based on feeling and impressions, instead of hard data? And if you still think the Devs are wrong, please explain how your impressions and feelings are more accurate? Thanks in advance. I agree with this and most nerf calls are from bad players with their 'experiance' of being relatively bad. HOWEVER some things just tend to stick out, like even bad players being able to kill tanks on operatives with little ease. I think bioware is actually doing a pretty good job in keeping up with such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycoon Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Pls watch the entire video before replying. You are just going to look really dumb otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clazzi Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 PvP is the one place that we do have metrics. The score screen can be pretty telling. Huh? The score screen is nothing but a bunch of inflated number due to aoe and dot damage. What you should be worried about is effective damage. You need to see the amount of damage and burst the class can do in a certain amount of time to one person. Not the amount of damage and or healing they can achieve throughout a full battle. Especially not when we have voidstar, the aoe central. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Thread title says it all. Everyone screaming for nerfs, please explain how you arrive at these conclusions without any combat log or parsed data? If you're going by how you "feel," or what you've apparently experienced in PvP, aren't you guilty of the exact same thing some of you accuse the Devs of doing? Making balance adjustments based on feeling and impressions, instead of hard data? And if you still think the Devs are wrong, please explain how your impressions and feelings are more accurate? Thanks in advance. there is no hard data anywhere. which means that it now falls to what the public feels/thinks. hell, what you just said could be used to describe politics in general, doesnt stop people from getting into passionate debates over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reryn Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Thread title says it all. Everyone screaming for nerfs, please explain how you arrive at these conclusions without any combat log or parsed data? ^^^^ operative ^^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogmar Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Hey OP, riddle me this, how do you declare a class balanced with "no metrics"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halbe Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) It isn't a mystery. It's common sense. If I race my Kia Sorento in a Nascar race, guess what? I'm going to lose. Now, I don't know anything about those cars. I don't know how fast they actually go. I don't know about the engine, the tires, nothing. But I know my car is not nearly on the level to compete as theirs are. Sure, you could tell me "L2DRIVE!!!!". Or, "YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE OTHER CARS WORK. YOU ACTUALLY HAD A CHANCE!". Sure I did, if the driver didn't know what they were doing and ran into a brick wall. But if I'm just as good a driver as the other guys, they just have a better tool at their disposal to get the job done. On equal footing, all things aren't equal. You don't have to have exact numbers in some cases. If you want me to come up with the Optimum DPS rotation for my Op? Yea, I'm gonna need to see some logs. You want me to point out obvious issues? Just let me use a little common sense and prior experience, and I can do a damn fine job. Edited January 28, 2012 by Halbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zrseale Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Why3ti-dfdA&list=UU-zp15utO36E86N60p85P-A&index=1&feature=plcp You watch videos like this, which you could potentially record all the numbers you see flying around. How anyone can watch this and not see this class needed to be toned down is beyond me. In no world, no matter how often they can do it, should anyone get a win that easy. Let alone over and over and over again. The huttball footage is just one huttball match. So even if we saw ALL of that players kills, that is how many times they can just faceroll someone easily in one 15 minute match, assuming it went 15 minutes. That is insanity, and it needed to be changed. its a damn montage. it shows the best of who knows how many games. thatd be like watching this and saying OMG OMG OMG!!! sn1p35 r OP in cod!!!!1!1!1! not that they ever listen to the comunity anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Thread title says it all. Everyone screaming for nerfs, please explain how you arrive at these conclusions without any combat log or parsed data? If you're going by how you "feel," or what you've apparently experienced in PvP, aren't you guilty of the exact same thing some of you accuse the Devs of doing? Making balance adjustments based on feeling and impressions, instead of hard data? And if you still think the Devs are wrong, please explain how your impressions and feelings are more accurate? Thanks in advance. If you're talking about the OP nerf then we had a metric. Players were going from 100 to zero without being able to control their character. As for the other nerf requests not everything is numbers releated. Just because an ability does no damage doesn't mean it can't be imba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uQQme Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Is this some WoW thing? I played Guild Wars pvp for 3 years and I've never heard of any "metrics" It's a freaking game. And pvp is team oriented... why do people care about metrics so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Is this some WoW thing? I played Guild Wars pvp for 3 years and I've never heard of any "metrics" It's a freaking game. And pvp is team oriented... why do people care about metrics so much? Maybe he's in the wrong forum and meant to post it in the ops forum? PVP balance is completely different than pve balance which relies more on hard numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casualdeath Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 RoadtoArkham you are my hero. I have been reading these forums for a while now, hoping to see some people like you and was beginning to lose hope. I am so happy to see that not everyone who posts on these forums is some tool who thinks that they are entitled to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletKnightBL Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Do you think actual data is the source for most nerf threads in any MMO? Welcome to pvp forums. Anyone who kills me is OP and my class is UP. QFT these boards blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyxel Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I don't need to calculate velocity, distance or number of splash drops to know that a pigeon has shat on my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordeguy Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Why3ti-dfdA&list=UU-zp15utO36E86N60p85P-A&index=1&feature=plcp You watch videos like this, which you could potentially record all the numbers you see flying around. How anyone can watch this and not see this class needed to be toned down is beyond me. In no world, no matter how often they can do it, should anyone get a win that easy. Let alone over and over and over again. The huttball footage is just one huttball match. So even if we saw ALL of that players kills, that is how many times they can just faceroll someone easily in one 15 minute match, assuming it went 15 minutes. That is insanity, and it needed to be changed. Other classes burst down helpless victims before they can react too. Ever seen a pyro burst crit? huge aoe smash crits? assassins killing people in 3-5 attacks? They might not be able to do it as easily but then again they can do a lot more than just bursting. Ops and scoundrels needed to be adjusted but not nerfed. If they shouldn't be able to do that out of stealth anymore they need to be given more out of stealth viability, not just a flat nerf. I don't play Op and have had my share of dead before I can get up moments, but never thought they needed to be nerfed because when you catch them out of stealth the tables turn. If you're alone with no back up or don't think to CC the op you see jumping your teammate and in general let a stealthy run around freely then they deserve the kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirithius Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Thread title says it all. Everyone screaming for nerfs, please explain how you arrive at these conclusions without any combat log or parsed data? If you're going by how you "feel," or what you've apparently experienced in PvP, aren't you guilty of the exact same thing some of you accuse the Devs of doing? Making balance adjustments based on feeling and impressions, instead of hard data? And if you still think the Devs are wrong, please explain how your impressions and feelings are more accurate? Thanks in advance. Yeah Vulcans have trouble understanding this kind of thing. It's not logical enough for em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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