Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[Kenmuir]

But it already *is* the predominant play style. There is no need to make it even more dominant.

 

Why is this a problem?(Other than it's different from your view on "how the game should be played").

 

Just as it would be a good idea to have a few players chose "republic" for a change, in my opinion it is a good idea to start thinking "how can we improve team play?"

 

So you solution to "improving team play" is to prevent other people from using a tool that automaticaly puts them in groups? That sounds like hypocrisy.

and not "how can we improve speed leveling?".

This has nothing to do with an LFG tool.

They only use it to get to "end game" as quickly as possible.

Where did you make this up?

They don't care about the story, they don't care about careful character development in a group context, actually role playing their character, because they simply don't want to team up. In a RP game. On an RP server.

 

Why are you so concerned about how other people play the game? Why must they play the game the same way you do?

 

It is like the food industry forcing me to buy lousy crap for Yoghurt because nobody seems to remember, what yoghurt has to be like. They removed it off the shelves, because people enjoy white, tasteless, watery smeer with 0.00001% fat only. If I whine and say "But can't you at least keep one single plain sort of real yoghurt in the shelves?" I get the "nope, the customers dont want it any more" and that's that.

 

Except, you can still buy other kinds of Yoghurt. It's more like everyone else prefers the "lousy" version of Yoghurt and doesn't like it when you serve it at the Superbowl Party.

 

 

To me it seems, pulling the good stuff from the shelves and advertising crap as lifestyle has pushed the result.

 

They never removed "your" brand. Everyone else just preferred to use a different brand and you got butthurt that they didn't enjoy the same old school kind you did.

 

Just as the LFD tool will marginalize the RPers playstyle to extinction.

 

How does it do that? I don't get it.

[Touchbass]

There are two groups of people:

 

1) Those who obtain coitis without payment

 

2) Those who are unfortunate with their looks and have to pay for coitis

 

Those who obtain coitis by themselves believe everyone else needs to work harder to get into a group.

 

/thread

[Nijraw]

I agree this games needs a LFG system bad, I am level 49 and only grouped up 5 times and that was with a my guild, my alt is level 33 and has NEVER grouped or did any Flashpoints because I just don't want to wait around reading chat for hours hoping to get picked.

 

Adding a LFG system will save me time and hassle.

[Majspuffen]

Simplifying the game in this fashion will have a negative impact on the community, PERIOD.

 

I was playing WoW long before the dungeon finder was introduced, and I was playing WoW long after. My experience past the introduction was sheltered as hell. I didn't talk to anyone unless they were part of my guild.

 

Because of the need to actually communicate with people on your server in order to get a group, has gotten me to befriend a lot of people. Good people! People that I met on low levels, and that I now play with at end game. It is fantastic! Sure, it may be much harder to find a group but christ, if it isn't more rewarding.

 

 

If they ever add a LFG tool, then here's a customer that is going to be extremely disappointed.

[crica]

Simplifying the game in this fashion will have a negative impact on the community, PERIOD.

 

I was playing WoW long before the dungeon finder was introduced, and I was playing WoW long after. My experience past the introduction was sheltered as hell. I didn't talk to anyone unless they were part of my guild.

 

Because of the need to actually communicate with people on your server in order to get a group, has gotten me to befriend a lot of people. Good people! People that I met on low levels, and that I now play with at end game. It is fantastic! Sure, it may be much harder to find a group but christ, if it isn't more rewarding.

 

 

If they ever add a LFG tool, then here's a customer that is going to be extremely disappointed.

 

the same players you are grouping with now, w/o using an LFD tool, will be the same players you will be grouping with after the LFD tool is in the game.

 

Why?

 

Because you and them obviously have no need for an LFD tool.

 

The players you are NOT grouping with now, however, will enjoy having an LFD tool to use for getting groups - which will affect you in no way whatsoever.

 

You are not grouping with them now, and you will not be grouping with them after the LFD tool is in the game.

 

Why players like you think you will be grouping with players later that you are not grouping with now is a mystery to me.

[Vedious]

idk about u guys but when i play wow and use the lfg system i often use it with other guildies and friends, and when we don t have enough ppl its not a problem because the lfg system will find some1 for us=)

 

For me community was never lost and i still used the lfg system all the time, so anti lfg ppl so stop being little girls. If you want community so bad u can still have it cause i sure as hell do with wow's lfg.

 

and btw i even have freinds on other servers that i run with also. So as far as im concerned wow made the community even better

[MalignX]

Awww. The anti's arguments are becoming so feeble and far between, I'm loosing my drive to post here... what will I do?

[CMKTenThirteen]

I am not saying this is a bad Idea all together I just think there is a laundry list of bugs and features that are needed way ahead of that the top of my list is.

 

bugs-

-LoS issues when nothing is blocking line of site

-resetting mobs

-unlootable corpses and gathering nodes

Features

-Some system to have armor that matches color scheme aside from yanking mods out of one piece of gear to put in one ya have (since some times the piece of gear you just got has not mods to yank or you can no longer justify the loss of Armor like keeping the same helm to a detriment of 64 armor)

-Legacy Content (at least some)

-Guild banks (yes I know this one is coming)

 

Honestly while an auto group feature is nice but not needed (ad yes I realize the same can be said for coloring options), if they just fixed the LFG social window so you could see the full comments people have and people used it (both to LFG and LFM) there is nothing stopping people from finding people across the galaxy.

 

like I said before and will say again and auto group feature is nice but hardly needed and definitely not tops on my list.

Edited February 7, 2012 by CMKTenThirteen

[LordRahlik]

A 2011 sharded MMO without cross-shard LFG-tool is no MMO at all.

 

Ehum... You are wrong... A MMO *with* any form of lazy mode, crap, I-don't-want-to-join-a-guild, game destroying LFG-tool is a disaster that will bleed players no matter how good the game is in other aspects. We finally have a game where the company has decided against adding a LFG tool and I seriously hope the keep it that way.

[Neiloch]

Ehum... You are wrong... A MMO *with* any form of lazy mode

Nope, not lazy, we've only said it dozens of times and laid out in full how it isn't. Try harder.

 

crap,

Good one! Still wrong.

 

I-don't-want-to-join-a-guild

Wrong again, laid out in full on the first page and reiterated several times through this thread and others.

 

game destroying LFG-tool is a disaster that will bleed players no matter how good the game is in other aspects.

What game was DESTROYED by a LFG tool? Name ONE.

 

We finally have a game where the company has decided against adding a LFG tool and I seriously hope the keep it that way.

Again, read the front page and realize the depth of your ignorance.

 

 

 

I'm in a guild and I raid three times a week.

 

I would LOVE a dungeon finder.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Neiloch

[DarthKhaos]

I notice you have ignored my direct response to you twice, and avoiding the subject. May I conclude you bring nothing to the table served by this thread as well?

I did see your response and you answered the question I asked. You explained what you meant. I didn't realize you wished a response form me. If you noticed I'm not arguing for or against a different LFG Tool or System. I'm talking about using the current one until another one is put into place. BioWare already stated they're working on one but it wouldn't magically appear tomorrow.

 

The largest problem the current tool has beside design flaws is that people don't use it. It could be the greatest thing since sliced bread but it wouldn't matter because it is not used. As I've said before they can put in an identical system to World of Warcraft but if the same amount of people uses it as the current tool it's going to be just as ineffective.

[MalignX]

Ehum... You are wrong... A MMO *with* any form of lazy mode, crap, I-don't-want-to-join-a-guild, game destroying LFG-tool is a disaster that will bleed players no matter how good the game is in other aspects. We finally have a game where the company has decided against adding a LFG tool and I seriously hope the keep it that way.

 

Uh. They are adding a LFG tool, if you had bothered to read the first page. Your lazy/joinaguild/doomsdaygamedestroying argument is moot. Sorry.

Edited February 7, 2012 by MalignX

[Neiloch]

As I've said before they can put in an identical system to World of Warcraft but if the same amount of people uses it as the current tool it's going to be just as ineffective.

 

Key word there is 'if', I'm pretty sure people would be slightly more inclined to use a tool that is a decade more advanced.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Neiloch

[LordRahlik]

...The players you are NOT grouping with now, however, will enjoy having an LFD tool to use for getting groups - which will affect you in no way whatsoever.

...

 

This is the biggest misconception of all and it's the reason why I hate the LFG tool and why I will always be extremely much against it.

 

It *WILL* affect me. **** loads. Even though I will never use it, even though I will never want to sign up in it.

 

With the LFG tool people will become lazy, rude and loot stealing - it's a fact and it's clearly visible in all games that have an LFG tool since you need ZERO effort to get a new group or group member.

- No of course everyone will not become this, you will still have luck and find fantastic people to group with. Is it 90% that will be rude, lazy and ninjas? Or 50%? Or 30%?

I really don't know, but it will be a substantial amount of people who will become worse players.

- Lazy, what do I mean with this? People don't want to group with someone who don't know everything in the flashpoint/heroic quest from the start. They will kick people who they consider to be beneath them and they will not have the strength or the willpower to listen to a boss explanation.

- Rude, what do I mean with this? Since there now is NO effort in getting a group and NO negative effect by behaving like a baboon, people will slowly decay into rude-ness and name-calling land. They will attack other players first without thought or without even being certain that their target was the one who did a mistake.

- Ninja/Loot-stealer, what do I mean with this? People will need on items that they want for whatever reason (good looks, steal one single item modification, take for companions) and sometimes even leave the group directly after they got what they want. The LFG tool will promote this and help people achieve this.

 

The above negative points will seep through the entire community of the game, perverting it and destroying it. It will affect me, my guild mates and everyone I meet in the game to such an extent that it will directly, negatively, impact my game experience.

 

Now - you can argue how much right or wrong I am in the above points as much as you want. We have a CLEAR example in WoW where the community was COMPLETELY destroyed with utter and even professional a-holes left so we KNOW that LFG will affect the community negatively. Like I say, you will still have luck and find decent people, but the chance is reduced severely.

But you can NEVER say that it will not affect me.

It will affect me very very much since the whole community will tilt when this is introduced.

 

My suggestions:

 

World-wide LFG chat channel with local channels on each planet.

Level world-wide LFG channels.

/who LFG = will ONLY show people who are looking for groups with their comments wherever they are in the world (with the possibility of selecting levels too).

 

and so on and so on.

 

But it should be a chat channel.

It should be an effort.

It should demand you to travel to the flashpoint/heroic quest YOURSELF without teleport or other crap.

 

This is a must to keep the community sane.

[crica]

This is the biggest misconception of all and it's the reason why I hate the LFG tool and why I will always be extremely much against it.

 

It *WILL* affect me. **** loads. Even though I will never use it, even though I will never want to sign up in it.

 

With the LFG tool people will become lazy, rude and loot stealing

 

um, hello? anyone home? knock knock

 

how is it going to affect YOU if YOU are not going to group up with the players who are using a tool YOU are NOT using?

 

you will NEVER be in a group with players who use the LFD tool because you never have to use the LFD tool since you already get groups!!!

 

the players who will be using the LFD tool are the players YOU ARE NOT GROUPING WITH RIGHT NOW and will NOT be grouping with when the LFD tool is in the game.

 

You make ZERO sense when you say players who will be using a tool to group up will affect you even though you will NEVER group up with them because you already have groups to play in without having to use the tool!!!

[Neiloch]

This is the biggest misconception of all and it's the reason why I hate the LFG tool and why I will always be extremely much against it.

 

It *WILL* affect me. **** loads. Even though I will never use it, even though I will never want to sign up in it.

 

With the LFG tool people will become lazy, rude and loot stealing - it's a fact and it's clearly visible in all games that have an LFG tool since you need ZERO effort to get a new group or group member.

- No of course everyone will not become this, you will still have luck and find fantastic people to group with. Is it 90% that will be rude, lazy and ninjas? Or 50%? Or 30%?

I really don't know, but it will be a substantial amount of people who will become worse players.

- Lazy, what do I mean with this? People don't want to group with someone who don't know everything in the flashpoint/heroic quest from the start. They will kick people who they consider to be beneath them and they will not have the strength or the willpower to listen to a boss explanation.

- Rude, what do I mean with this? Since there now is NO effort in getting a group and NO negative effect by behaving like a baboon, people will slowly decay into rude-ness and name-calling land. They will attack other players first without thought or without even being certain that their target was the one who did a mistake.

- Ninja/Loot-stealer, what do I mean with this? People will need on items that they want for whatever reason (good looks, steal one single item modification, take for companions) and sometimes even leave the group directly after they got what they want. The LFG tool will promote this and help people achieve this.

 

The above negative points will seep through the entire community of the game, perverting it and destroying it. It will affect me, my guild mates and everyone I meet in the game to such an extent that it will directly, negatively, impact my game experience.

 

Now - you can argue how much right or wrong I am in the above points as much as you want. We have a CLEAR example in WoW where the community was COMPLETELY destroyed with utter and even professional a-holes left so we KNOW that LFG will affect the community negatively. Like I say, you will still have luck and find decent people, but the chance is reduced severely.

But you can NEVER say that it will not affect me.

It will affect me very very much since the whole community will tilt when this is introduced.

 

My suggestions:

 

World-wide LFG chat channel with local channels on each planet.

Level world-wide LFG channels.

/who LFG = will ONLY show people who are looking for groups with their comments wherever they are in the world (with the possibility of selecting levels too).

 

and so on and so on.

 

But it should be a chat channel.

It should be an effort.

It should demand you to travel to the flashpoint/heroic quest YOURSELF without teleport or other crap.

 

This is a must to keep the community sane.

 

WoW community was crap WELL before a DF came to be. So no, that is not an example. Not only that, OTHER GAMES HAVE IT TOO and low and friggin behold, the community didn't fall down all around them.

 

This idea that it some how MAKES people worse is THE most asinine idea I have EVER heard in video games and a top contender for what i have heard in general. People ARE who they ARE. If you met jerks after DF was launched, guess what? GUESS WHAT? THEY ALREADY WERE JERKS. So people were getting worse even when you stayed out of DF I can promise you it wasn't PURELY because of the DF.

 

*dun dun dun*

 

Yes I know this must come as a shock to you but yes, all these things are true.

 

Consider your argument thoroughly smashed if you actually like knowing what you are talking about.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Neiloch

[Neiloch]

sorry double post Edited February 7, 2012 by Neiloch

[DarthKhaos]

Key word there is 'if', I'm pretty sure people would be slightly more inclined to use a tool that is a decade more advanced.

You probably didn't hear me with the sound of my point going WOOOSSSHHH over your head.

[Neiloch]

You probably didn't hear me with the sound of my point going WOOOSSSHHH over your head.

 

so your point had nothing to do with half your post? Nice.

 

No one is going to use the LFG tool enough for it to matter, give it up. Same way they won't use a horse and buggy just because they don't have a car. Just because its the only option doesn't make it a desirable one.

 

Players aren't gonna 'tough it out' when its a friggin video game. they basically decide if its bad enough, most likely compunded with other factors, to either work around it or leave outright. Same reason why MMO's that try and 'ease' people into PvP focused gameplay when thats the only option fail. If people are dead set on not wanting it, they never will.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Neiloch

[iraqcombatvet]

"Improving our LFG system is high on the list of features that Systems Design wants to add to the game. We want this to be good not just for helping people find Flashpoints and Operations to run, but also other multiplayer content like heroic missions. A key emphasis will be on advertising for specific role needs (healer, tank, DPS). This feature is currently in the design stage, and once this feature has moved beyond this to a development stage and has a firm ETA, I'll be coming back to you guys to give more details.

 

We've known we would need to revisit this feature for a while. In the level-up game, finding players isn't too rough because, with few exceptions, everyone in that level band is either on your planet or on the fleet. Once more and more players hit endgame, and are spending their time in more places, the need for this feature is going to increase. Note that right now, high level players have the opposite problem - there aren't enough other players up there to group with. This problem will dissipate as the game ages, and more players reach the later levels.

 

That being said, our design team doesn't philosophically believe that cross-server Flashpoints are good for the game at this stage in the game's lifespan. There is huge social pressure to not be a jerk that goes away when the odds that you will never see these people again is high. I'm not saying never - there may come a time in the future where we reevaluate this - but at least in the short term, we believe this will cause more damage to the community than good." (Bioware Statement)

 

 

No dungeon finder = Incompetent designers

No Cross-server mergers = Incompetent designers

Some of the statements made by Bioware = Incompetent desigeners

What needs to happen = Don't ever make another MMO, you suck. lol.

[Nitewolfe]

I did see your response and you answered the question I asked. You explained what you meant. I didn't realize you wished a response form me. If you noticed I'm not arguing for or against a different LFG Tool or System. I'm talking about using the current one until another one is put into place. BioWare already stated they're working on one but it wouldn't magically appear tomorrow.

 

The largest problem the current tool has beside design flaws is that people don't use it. It could be the greatest thing since sliced bread but it wouldn't matter because it is not used. As I've said before they can put in an identical system to World of Warcraft but if the same amount of people uses it as the current tool it's going to be just as ineffective.

 

The number one reason why its not used is its not really visible.

Most mmo players are conditioned to useful items/info being readily visible with out having to dig around for it.

Call the lazy or dumb or silly or simple mined if you will but they are the majority of the player bases in these games.

IMO the tool we have should had been like this.

A button next to every group based quest that which clicked opened the who window and a pop up to check which role you wanted to be listed for. There is other things BW could have should have done. But they didnt and its to late now for the system to work out.

Instead they hide the system behind a social button, a friends list tab and a vague who list.

Its no wonder most people do not use it.. Because most will never know it exist. When they do find out they find its worthless because almost no one else uses it and they go back to chat spams.

 

Rift could had taught a lesson here about hiding options. While this is not about a lfg system its about how the common player doesnt go looking at settings or tabs.

On rift pve servers there is a option hidden under interface options to disable pvp auto flagging. Really great system that keeps pve players from ever experiencing pvp auto flagging on pve servers. By default it is unchecked and pvp auto flagging happens very very easy. Now It is almost a daily experience for me to haveto explain to a random player that they do no need to rage quit the game due to being pvp auto flagged so much. That they can toggle off the pvp auto flagging! its usually followed by WTH do i have to go look for a place to toggle that off? Well i cant tell you why.. But to this day i have to explain that at least once every day to some one. Now if they would had made it checked by defualt or put it some place visible like say on the pvp warfront button ot a listing under the pvp drop down from right clicking tons of problems would be solved.

 

As i hope you can see the problem here in both cases is lack of visibility of the option.

If players cant see it they dont know its there!

 

Even if BW comes out with the best lfg system since sliced bread if player dont know about it (with out having some one tell them) or cant see it, It will be just as worthless as the one we have now.

[DarthKhaos]

so your point had nothing to do with half your post? Nice.

 

No one is going to use the LFG tool enough for it to matter, give it up. Same way they won't use a horse and buggy just because they don't have a car. Just because its the only option doesn't make it a desirable one.

 

Players aren't gonna 'tough it out' when its a friggin video game. they basically decide if its bad enough, most likely compunded with other factors, to either work around it or leave outright. Same reason why MMO's that try and 'ease' people into PvP focused gameplay when thats the only option fail. If people are dead set on not wanting it, they never will.

I like your analogy. So you're saying if you take a cruse and visit an island that has no cars and only use horse and buggies you are NEVER going to use it but walk (something more antiquated) everywhere you wish to go?

 

If you were following me my main point was that one of the reasons why people don't use it is because they do not want to validate any other method as "working". When you have people who would not form a party out of a list of 20 people of varying roles just because "they don't want to lead a party" but instead spend hrs (as they say) looking for one they either

1. Don't really want a party.
   
2. Don't want to give credit to another option.
   

People need to stop coming to the forums complaining it is hard to find a party when they refuse to use the tools available to them.

 

 

Nitewolfe if you have noticed I have never said the current Tool is without flaws. If you look at the link in my sig that has a guide to the current Tool it is also stated there that the current Tool has design flaws. I am not contesting that. However it baffles me that people would refuse to use a tool that would make it easier to find a party. Instead they would spend a lot of time using General Chat and complaining on the forums when they could use General Chat AND flag themselves and place a comment.

Edited February 7, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[crica]

People need to stop coming to the forums complaining it is hard to find a party when they refuse to use the tools available to them.

 

no one WANTS to use the existing tools because they are not FUN to use.

 

you know, the ENTIRE reason people even play a video game - to have FUN?

 

so, um, yeah... stop comming to a video game forum to let the video game devs know they are not having FUN with the current tools and to let the video game devs know what tools they would have FUN using?

 

you make zero sense.

[Nitewolfe]

I like your analogy. So you're saying if you take a cruse and visit an island that has no cars and only use horse and buggies you are NEVER going to use it but walk (something more antiquated) everywhere you wish to go?

 

If you were following me my main point was that one of the reasons why people don't use it is because they do not want to validate any other method as "working". When you have people who would not form a party out of a list of 20 people of varying roles just because "they don't want to lead a party" but instead spend hrs (as they say) looking for one they either

1. Don't really want a party.
   
2. Don't want to give credit to another option.
   

People need to stop coming to the forums complaining it is hard to find a party when they refuse to use the tools available to them.

 

 

Nitewolfe if you have noticed I have never said the current Tool is without flaws. If you look at the link in my sig that has a guide to the current Tool it is also stated there that the current Tool has design flaws. I am not contesting that. However it baffles me that people would refuse to use a tool that would make it easier to find a party. Instead they would spend a lot of time using General Chat and complaining on the forums when they could use General Chat AND flag themselves and place a comment.

 

I build stuff ( or used to) I prefer nail guns. With a nail gun i can hang a whole house in siding in one day. My nail gun is broken i could do it with a hammer and take weeks to finish and have a worse looking job done in the end. But instead i will put the job on hold till i get a new nail gun and get the job done right and have it look professional!

 

I do not /spam chat and i refuse to use this joke of a lfg system. I will complain here on the forum until BW gives me a new nail gun so i can get the job done RIGHT!

 

As far as your cruise boat example goes no i would refuse to even leave the boat. Instead i would use what the boat gave me and stay at the pool!

[Nitewolfe]

no one WANTS to use the existing tools because they are not FUN to use.

 

you know, the ENTIRE reason people even play a video game - to have FUN?

 

so, um, yeah... stop comming to a video game forum to let the video game devs know they are not having FUN with the current tools and to let the video game devs know what tools they would have FUN using?

 

you make zero sense.

 

Cheers!