Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[Gavin_Darkl]

Had to add this to a new post, sorry to bump again (lol).

 

Here's some more feedback from that other developer about that other game which I think gives more insight into the popularity of LFD and what might happen for SWTOR:

 

"[...] Yesterday we discussed low-population and faction-imbalanced realms with our developers. They have some pretty bold and spectacular plans for addressing this in anticipation of implementing some of the features we plan to in Mists. I just don't have a lot of information to share with you at this stage of programming and development."

 

"Take LFG. Yes, convenient, it's quick, it's good! But at the same time it destroyed server communities and turned the whole experience of going to dungeons from a fun adventure into a mini-game grindfest. Overal? Bad change in my opinion."

"The option to manually find people for your group and travel to the dungeon is still there, so you're totally free to continue doing it that way if you wish. But LFD is a very handy and convenient tool for most people, its popularity demonstrates that beyond a doubt.

 

Having said that, we're very aware of these concerns, and we're working hard on ways to get players out of the cities and back into the world again in Mists."

 

"You're basically telling us that we're wrong for not liking these features of WoW, because the numbers are against us. A lot of people use LFG, so that must mean it is fantastic?"

"No I'm not saying that at all, but it's clear that many people appreciate it. The point you make about a path of least resistance is true, but it's a fine balance. Make something too easy (such as a free gear vendor) and it's no fun, no challenge. LFD keeps the challenge part (the dungeon) but alleviates the often-long-winded group-finding part, allowing people to quest or gather mats, just go about other tasks while a group is found for them. Granted, it's not for everyone, some people enjoy putting a group together personally but, again, we're not forcing anyone to use it.

 

As I said just now, we've acknowledged people might have issues with some of the changes LFD made to the game. We're hearing it loud and clear, and we're working to address some of these in the expansion."

 

Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2638-February-2-Hotfixes-64-bit-Client-Blue-Posts?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

And you left out?

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3312961795?page=4#69

 

One thing 1, ofc you force people to use the LFD tool.. you give much better rewards for doing it in LFD than you recive if you make your own group.

 

Soloution is, remove the extra rewards from LFD and LFR tools, and give those extras to thoose who make their own group - that is a level instance, a HC or even for their own LFR (ok need a new name for that, but that cant be to hard)

 

Problem with wow - is you made it more rewarding to use your tool, than if you made groups on your own - remove that, and players might be back to form communities on server level again.

 

Again my argument against a X server LFD tool. It should be server only. It should not have extra rewards to use it.

[Gavin_Darkl]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3312961795?page=4#71

 

Or.

 

Well, pardon me for being skeptical, but these same issues have been around since crossrealm battlegrounds in vanilla. All we've ever heard on the topic has been how fantastic it is that there are more battlegrounds running.

 

Same issue with Alterac Valley, where it's so amazing that "new" AV can be played in 5 minutes so many AVs can be run by more people.

 

In fact, it seems like numbers are the only gauge used to determined success. If more dungeons are run, if more BGs are played, if more people are in raids, if more people gain better gear, if more characters are at max level, that means that all decisions leading up at that point are justified and correct. It may not be the truth, but it sure seems like it.

 

Again, I apologize for coming off as hostile, but I've been hearing the PR talk for over seven years now. I've seen many of the things that matter to me eroded for the sake of convenience or balance or any of the other sacred relics of the MMO world, and I've seen a lot of spindoctoring from Blizzard CMs. I'm jaded, though I feel I'm justifiably so.

[Gavin_Darkl]

Or

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3312961795?page=4#78

 

Nobody is interested in any other dungeons anymore because the game designers removed daily dungeon quests and FORCED users to do LFG to get their JP/VP reward. Incentivise people to do dungeons without using the LFG system at all (not even to TP in, as that would just take away the trip to the dungeon entrance) by giving them additional rewards for NOT doing it with random people from different servers and you'll see people become interested in joining a realm-group again and forming communities and gaining game-buddies.

 

But hey, since the game designers didn't realize that themselves this just shows they're incompetent yet again.

[Cruzee]

Cross realm LFDs were a bad idea 500 pages ago and they are a bad idea now. The people that need instant gratification without ever having to be friendly or even civil to other players probably aren't the best target audience if you want to differentiate yourself from that other huge MMO.

 

In the end the lack of personal attachments made it surprisingly easy for me to walk away from 4 years of character progression in Azeroth. I haven't regretted it once. I for one would like this game to be a social game and not just a gear treadmill with disposable groups.

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/01/30/4-steps-for-dealing-with-raid-finder-harassment/

 

^

That is what the game turns into with LFD/LFR. I never saw the complete disregard for other players prior to the implementation of the tool you are yearning for.

 

I understand why a lot of you want it, but I personally say "No thank you".

 

I like cooperative gameplay. What happens in LFD/LFR is anything but.

 

At the very least though LFD proponents, I have bumped your thread. I still hope you don't get your way.

 

cheers.

[Reyom]

Dungeon finder is a terrible idea. It reduces every social aspect of the game, especially if it's cross server. Much easier way to address this is making a server wide LFG channel as opposed to just spamming on the fleet. It's not perfect, but it also keeps the social side of things alive.

[Ethern]

Dungeon finder is a terrible idea. It reduces every social aspect of the game, especially if it's cross server.

If you don't explain how it reduces social aspect, then your statement has zero value.

And no it does not, since it only affects the recruitment phase for PvE group content and replace the chat spam.

Explain how a recruitment device for only one type of content prevents people from socializing?

You can't, because it does not at all.

 

Much easier way to address this is making a server wide LFG channel as opposed to just spamming on the fleet. It's not perfect, but it also keeps the social side of things alive.

And very ineffective, particularly on low population servers.

 

This paranoia vs both the LFD and its cross server aspect gets more ridiculous with each post similar to this.

[MalignX]

Again my argument against a X server LFD tool. It should be server only. It should not have extra rewards to use it.

I don't agree with the no X server, but I am willing to experience the Server Only one they are planning to implement and reserve my judgement. If Server Only fixes the current problem, sweet, no need for X server. I certainly agree with you that there shouldn't be any extra rewards, being able to instantly queue for Flash Points should be all the reward needed.

[Gavin_Darkl]

Principal Lead System Designer, Damion Schubert, made a statement on 1/11/2012 in regards to this: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=1502055&postcount=508

 

 

 

“Improving our LFG system is high on the list of features that Systems Design wants to add to the game. We want this to be good not just for helping people find Flashpoints and Operations to run, but also other multiplayer content like heroic missions. A key emphasis will be on advertising for specific role needs (healer, tank, DPS). This feature is currently in the design stage, and once this feature has moved beyond this to a development stage and has a firm ETA, I'll be coming back to you guys to give more details.

 

 

 

We've known we would need to revisit this feature for a while. In the level-up game, finding players isn't too rough because, with few exceptions, everyone in that level band is either on your planet or on the fleet. Once more and more players hit endgame, and are spending their time in more places, the need for this feature is going to increase. Note that right now, high level players have the opposite problem - there aren't enough other players up there to group with. This problem will dissipate as the game ages, and more players reach the later levels.

 

 

 

That being said, our design team doesn't philosophically believe that cross-server Flashpoints are good for the game at this stage in the game's lifespan. There is huge social pressure to not be a jerk that goes away when the odds that you will never see these people again is high. I'm not saying never - there may come a time in the future where we reevaluate this - but at least in the short term, we believe this will cause more damage to the community than good.”

Edited February 3, 2012 by Arzhanin
Quoted removed content

[MalignX]

Dungeon finder is a terrible idea. It reduces every social aspect of the game, especially if it's cross server. Much easier way to address this is making a server wide LFG channel as opposed to just spamming on the fleet. It's not perfect, but it also keeps the social side of things alive.

 

Socializing is on your shoulders, not some game mechanic. You're ability to socialize will not change with the implementation of a Group Finder, which is coming btw, unless you solely interact with people in Flash Points, which I have yet to see a single person do.

[MalignX]

Principal Lead System Designer, Damion Schubert, made a statement on 1/11/2012 in regards to this: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=1502055&postcount=508

 

 

 

“Improving our LFG system is high on the list of features that Systems Design wants to add to the game. We want this to be good not just for helping people find Flashpoints and Operations to run, but also other multiplayer content like heroic missions. A key emphasis will be on advertising for specific role needs (healer, tank, DPS). This feature is currently in the design stage, and once this feature has moved beyond this to a development stage and has a firm ETA, I'll be coming back to you guys to give more details.

 

 

 

We've known we would need to revisit this feature for a while. In the level-up game, finding players isn't too rough because, with few exceptions, everyone in that level band is either on your planet or on the fleet. Once more and more players hit endgame, and are spending their time in more places, the need for this feature is going to increase. Note that right now, high level players have the opposite problem - there aren't enough other players up there to group with. This problem will dissipate as the game ages, and more players reach the later levels.

 

 

 

That being said, our design team doesn't philosophically believe that cross-server Flashpoints are good for the game at this stage in the game's lifespan. There is huge social pressure to not be a jerk that goes away when the odds that you will never see these people again is high. I'm not saying never - there may come a time in the future where we reevaluate this - but at least in the short term, we believe this will cause more damage to the community than good.”

 

Funny enough, I've read that once or twice. Not sure what your pointing out here other than: Improving our LFG system is high on the list of features that Systems Design wants to add to the game. We want this to be good not just for helping people find Flashpoints and Operations to run, but also other multiplayer content like heroic missions. A key emphasis will be on advertising for specific role needs (healer, tank, DPS). This feature is currently in the design stage, and once this feature has moved beyond this to a development stage and has a firm ETA, I'll be coming back to you guys to give more details.

[Gavin_Darkl]

Funny enough, I've read that once or twice. Not sure what your pointing out here other than: Improving our LFG system is high on the list of features that Systems Design wants to add to the game. We want this to be good not just for helping people find Flashpoints and Operations to run, but also other multiplayer content like heroic missions. A key emphasis will be on advertising for specific role needs (healer, tank, DPS). This feature is currently in the design stage, and once this feature has moved beyond this to a development stage and has a firm ETA, I'll be coming back to you guys to give more details.

 

Does not mean it will be Cross server. It says it will not be cross server at least at first and they really do not want to make it cross server.

[MalignX]

Cross realm LFDs were a bad idea 500 pages ago and they are a bad idea now. The people that need instant gratification without ever having to be friendly or even civil to other players probably aren't the best target audience if you want to differentiate yourself from that other huge MMO.

 

 

At the very least though LFD proponents, I have bumped your thread. I still hope you don't get your way.

 

cheers.

These don't seem like constructive criticisms.. perhaps you meant them in a none trolling way.

[bebedelette]

Cons:

 

1. Some people think it ruins the community...but I think they are wrong. They obviously have not sat for an hour trying to fill a Flashpoint group.

 

For me what really ruins the community is not getting to know people on your server. And an LFG tool encourages that. Once people know that there's virtually no chance of ever running into the same people again on a cross-server LFG tool, they feel free to be rude as hale. But on your own server you have to maintain your rep to get pugs.

 

I would like to see a server-by-server LFG tool, no need to go cross-server. I see plenty of people spam for groups on Assassins of Sion even if they don't get them, and my server's not even heavily populated, so it would work.

[Cruzee]

These don't seem like constructive criticisms.. perhaps you meant them in a none trolling way.

 

Ignoring the fact that you snipped out my main point which I thought was thoughtful and had a link to an independent site... I still don't think what you've quoted is trolling by any stretch.

 

Trolls tend to be very strong in their convictions. They don't say things like "probably" in their statements.

 

Looking at your signature, big guy, I would hope you would recognize my post for what it is, especially that last line.

 

Cheers.

[BlueSkittles]

Cross realm LFDs were a bad idea 500 pages ago and they are a bad idea now. The people that need instant gratification without ever having to be friendly or even civil to other players probably aren't the best target audience if you want to differentiate yourself from that other huge MMO.

 

In the end the lack of personal attachments made it surprisingly easy for me to walk away from 4 years of character progression in Azeroth. I haven't regretted it once. I for one would like this game to be a social game and not just a gear treadmill with disposable groups.

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/01/30/4-steps-for-dealing-with-raid-finder-harassment/

 

^

That is what the game turns into with LFD/LFR. I never saw the complete disregard for other players prior to the implementation of the tool you are yearning for.

 

I understand why a lot of you want it, but I personally say "No thank you".

 

I like cooperative gameplay. What happens in LFD/LFR is anything but.

 

At the very least though LFD proponents, I have bumped your thread. I still hope you don't get your way.

 

cheers.

 

And the bullies that were discussed in that article magically go away when your "community" ousts them? Fairy tale. Never happened pre-LFD in WoW and if they implement a LFR type system in SWTOR, I will be happy to be able to play that type of content, and just deal with the unwashed masses that come with it.

 

Either way, we're never going to agree, but still good to hear any argument your side can muster.

 

And thank you for bringing this article to my attention. I'll remember to repost it once SWTOR has a similar system.

Edited February 3, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[MalignX]

And the bullies that were discussed in that article magically go away when your "community" ousts them? Fairy tale. Never happened pre-LFD in WoW and if they implement a LFR type system in SWTOR, I will be happy to be able to play that type of content, and just deal with the unwashed masses that come with it.

 

Either way, we're never going to agree, but still good to hear any argument your side can muster.

 

And thank you for bringing this article to my attention. I'll remember to repost it once SWTOR has a similar system.

 

Guess no one should be able to own a car, because it turns them into @$%&!* in traffic, when otherwise they are perfectly congenial people.

I mean seriously, I met considerably more "Jerks" before Dungeon Finder, than I ever did using it. And more and more it seems like the people that use that argument thought that they held some kind of 'status' before Dungeon Finder robbed them of it.

[Nitewolfe]

Once more i see people spouting off personal experiences and opinions with ZERO bases in facts.

I can counter every cross server lfd sucks and most runs are bad with cross server lfd with my own personal experiences and opinions that cross server lfd in multi games i am playing are great and the majority of runs ore great!

So its a draw on personal experiences its my word against your word.

 

So we once more fall back to facts i have stated before.

Fact: devs in multi mmo's have stated their cross server lfd are a success! stating that more players than ever before are running and completing the content.

 

Fact: even older games are adding cross server lfd tools.

 

Fact cross server lfd tools are now considered a common mmo tool ( more games have them than dont).

 

Fact: there is no proof that server communities are destroyed with cross server lfd tools. There is only personal opinions.

 

Fact: millions of players in multi mmo's use cross server lfd tools ona daily basis and never complain.

 

Fact: there is ZERO ninja looting with a good need/greed system in cross server lfd(some thing we do not have here yet).

 

Fact: with cross server lfd, cross server friends list and cross server invite and cross server whispers your friends list has more people available to add to.

 

Fact: good people exist out side of just your own server.

 

Fact: Fact: /ignore is all you need for taking care of a bad player. Any thing else is your desire to control the player outside of their effect on you.

 

Fact: Anti cross server people have zero facts to back their claims!

[MalignX]

Once more i see people spouting off personal experiences and opinions with ZERO bases in facts.

I can counter every cross server lfd sucks and most runs are bad with cross server lfd with my own personal experiences and opinions that cross server lfd in multi games i am playing are great and the majority of runs ore great!

So its a draw on personal experiences its my word against your word.

 

So we once more fall back to facts i have stated before.

Fact: devs in multi mmo's have stated their cross server lfd are a success! stating that more players than ever before are running and completing the content.

 

Fact: even older games are adding cross server lfd tools.

 

Fact cross server lfd tools are now considered a common mmo tool ( more games have them than dont).

 

Fact: there is no proof that server communities are destroyed with cross server lfd tools. There is only personal opinions.

 

Fact: millions of players in multi mmo's use cross server lfd tools ona daily basis and never complain.

 

Fact: there is ZERO ninja looting with a good need/greed system in cross server lfd(some thing we do not have here yet).

 

Fact: with cross server lfd, cross server friends list and cross server invite and cross server whispers your friends list has more people available to add to.

 

Fact: good people exist out side of just your own server.

 

Fact: Fact: /ignore is all you need for taking care of a bad player. Any thing else is your desire to control the player outside of their effect on you.

 

Fact: Anti cross server people have zero facts to back their claims!

 

I'm going to cut n'paste this as my response to everyone from here on out if you don't mind. Hah. Love it.

[Kenmuir]

For me what really ruins the community is not getting to know people on your server. And an LFG tool encourages that. Once people know that there's virtually no chance of ever running into the same people again on a cross-server LFG tool, they feel free to be rude as hale. But on your own server you have to maintain your rep to get pugs.

 

I would like to see a server-by-server LFG tool, no need to go cross-server. I see plenty of people spam for groups on Assassins of Sion even if they don't get them, and my server's not even heavily populated, so it would work.

 

1. Why are you a mean/rude person to people you will never meet again?

2. Why do you assume that since your(a common selfish observance of anit-lfg people) server is "okay"(again, by your definition and most likely confirmation bias) that no one else could want one or use one? (And most importantly should never have one)

[Orisai]

I've spent more than 1 hour spamming General (while also flagged for LFG with proper comment) trying to do Mandalorian Raiders before giving it up in favor of Warzone PvP (which is more accessible).

 

Guess what?? Random people yelled at me because of the LFG spam (which wasn't abusive at all), and when I replied to them that it wasn't my fault Bioware didn't implement a Flashpoint finder. The very same people who yelled at me were mostly anti-LFD like half the people in this thread.

 

I find it just stupid when people doesn't want the LFD tool under the stupìd excuse of it "ruinining communities" while yelling at me for spamming "dps LFG mandalorian raiders" every 2 mins.

[MalignX]

I've spent more than 1 hour spamming General (while also flagged for LFG with proper comment) trying to do Mandalorian Raiders before giving it up in favor of Warzone PvP (which is more accessible).

 

Guess what?? Random people yelled at me because of the LFG spam (which wasn't abusive at all), and when I replied to them that it wasn't my fault Bioware didn't implement a Flashpoint finder. The very same people who yelled at me were mostly anti-LFD like half the people in this thread.

 

I find it just stupid when people doesn't want the LFD tool under the stupìd excuse of it "ruinining communities" while yelling at me for spamming "dps LFG mandalorian raiders" every 2 mins.

 

Fact!

[RachelAnne]

Once more i see people spouting off personal experiences and opinions with ZERO bases in facts.

I can counter every cross server lfd sucks and most runs are bad with cross server lfd with my own personal experiences and opinions that cross server lfd in multi games i am playing are great and the majority of runs ore great!

 

And since you can do so, you have a more valid opinion? Ok, if you think so...

 

Fact: devs in multi mmo's have stated their cross server lfd are a success! stating that more players than ever before are running and completing the content.

 

Still wow is losing subs, still people complain a lot about the tool etc. I am sure if Chilly would tell you that wow has flying cows, you would also buy it.

 

Fact: even older games are adding cross server lfd tools.

 

Please name these games and please dont even dare to say wow or Rift - they are not old games.

 

Fact cross server lfd tools are now considered a common mmo tool ( more games have them than dont).

 

Ok where did you read this? This is just your own opinion, but notthing more.

 

Fact: there is no proof that server communities are destroyed with cross server lfd tools. There is only personal opinions.

 

If you would had played 7 years ago, then you would understand that fact. People who just played a few years cant understand these things. The behaivour has changed, this is a fact, to deny that fact is your way but its still a fact.

 

Fact: millions of players in multi mmo's use cross server lfd tools ona daily basis and never complain.

 

Thats actually not true. Even at wow with its currently almost 10 mio accounts, only a few hundred thousand are using the tool. There was once a nice picture at MMO Champ, just look it up. If I remember it was close to 1Mio, characters - since most people play 2 or 3 you can easily get the numbers.

And that nobody of them does complain is a myth, check the forums at wow - you will see the truth there.

 

Fact: there is ZERO ninja looting with a good need/greed system in cross server lfd(some thing we do not have here yet).

 

There is ninja looting at wow. Even the LFR with its adjusted looting system still has a way open exploids like with trinkets, amuletts.

 

Fact: with cross server lfd, cross server friends list and cross server invite and cross server whispers your friends list has more people available to add to.

 

Which does not exist in any game so far. The only thing you can do atm. is ignore people, but there is no way of adding them to your f list or even talking to them, outside of the group. I tried this because that 1 good group I had in years I wanted to keep - it did not work.

 

Fact: good people exist out side of just your own server.

 

Wow, the first true fact in your post. While you are right, explain to me please how I can look for them directly, in an automated tool? There is no button for that, show me how to filter the kids, unskilled and elitist´s so that I can play with the good guys and we are ready to go. Until then, that fact does not help anyone at all.

 

Fact: Fact: /ignore is all you need for taking care of a bad player. Any thing else is your desire to control the player outside of their effect on you.

 

If you ignore them, whats then? He is still in the group and does do stupid things. He can still initiate kicks for friends of mine, he can still ninja pull or take loot etc.

 

Fact: Anti cross server people have zero facts to back their claims!

 

They have more fact´s than you in your post atleast.

Edited February 3, 2012 by RachelAnne

[Orisai]

Still wow is losing subs, still people complain a lot about the tool etc. I am sure if Chilly would tell you that wow has flying cows, you would also buy it.

 

WoW is losing subs because it's 7 and a half years old game and people just got bored of it. Warcraft died with Arthas, and whatever came after is just filler content, including Kung-Fu Pandas and Pokemon.

 

Please name these games and please dont even dare to say wow or Rift - they are not old games.

 

By "older" games he mean anything before SWTOR. Rift is quite new and mostly a failure since it was launched, not because of the game itself but Trion marketing it as the "WoW-killer".

 

Ok where did you read this? This is just your own opinion, but notthing more.

 

LOTRO.

Rift.

WoW

Everquest II (yes, this one too).

 

If you would had played 7 years ago, then you would understand that fact. People who just played a few years cant understand these things. The behaivour has changed, this is a fact, to deny that fact is your way but its still a fact.

 

Tell me, in a reasonable way, how did the General, Guild, Trade, and LocalDefense channels changed since the past 7 years, other than the re.tarded LFG spam.

 

Thats actually not true. Even at wow with its currently almost 10 mio accounts, only a few hundred thousand are using the tool. There was once a nice picture at MMO Champ, just look it up. If I remember it was close to 1Mio, characters - since most people play 2 or 3 you can easily get the numbers.

And that nobody of them does complain is a myth, check the forums at wow - you will see the truth there.

 

There is no way to know how many players use it or not. But the truth is, content became way more accessible than before, specially raiding.

 

There is ninja looting at wow. Even the LFR with its adjusted looting system still has a way open exploids like with trinkets, amuletts.

 

SWTOR doesn't have a LFD/LFR tool yet, and if they ever implement it (which they will, no matter what you detractors say) Ninja-looting shouldn't be an excuse anymore if proper, and I mean REAL gear restrictions are put in place since day ONE.

 

Which does not exist in any game so far. The only thing you can do atm. is ignore people, but there is no way of adding them to your f list or even talking to them, outside of the group. I tried this because that 1 good group I had in years I wanted to keep - it did not work.

 

True, but this could be improved by adding a Global Tag system, much like the one in CoH or Blizzard's RealID.

 

Wow, the first true fact in your post. While you are right, explain to me please how I can look for them directly, in an automated tool? There is no button for that, show me how to filter the kids, unskilled and elitist´s so that I can play with the good guys and we are ready to go. Until then, that fact does not help anyone at all.

 

You can find them in your own server too, which is way worse imo.

 

If you ignore them, whats then? He is still in the group and does do stupid things. He can still initiate kicks for friends of mine, he can still ninja pull or take loot etc.

 

Just kick them or leave and start again. Once again, bringing Ninja-looting to the table in a game that doesn't even have a LFD system is just plain stupid.

 

They have more fact´s than you in your post atleast.

 

None that we couldn't counter.

 

Personal experiences in BOTH sides are valid facts imo. Not seeing them is just denying them.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Orisai

[Neiloch]

Once more i see people spouting off personal experiences and opinions with ZERO bases in facts.

I can counter every cross server lfd sucks and most runs are bad with cross server lfd with my own personal experiences and opinions that cross server lfd in multi games i am playing are great and the majority of runs ore great!

 

And since you can do so, you have a more valid opinion? Ok, if you think so...

 

Fact: devs in multi mmo's have stated their cross server lfd are a success! stating that more players than ever before are running and completing the content.

 

Still wow is losing subs, still people complain a lot about the tool etc. I am sure if Chilly would tell you that wow has flying cows, you would also buy it.

 

That is whats called a correlation, not causation. Just because two things happen at once doesn;t mean they are causally linked. I have a empty soda can and never been attacked by a tiger, doesn't mean the soda can repels tigers.

 

Fact: even older games are adding cross server lfd tools.

 

Please name these games and please dont even dare to say wow or Rift - they are not old games.

 

Fact cross server lfd tools are now considered a common mmo tool ( more games have them than dont).

 

Ok where did you read this? This is just your own opinion, but notthing more.

 

Fact: there is no proof that server communities are destroyed with cross server lfd tools. There is only personal opinions.

 

If you would had played 7 years ago, then you would understand that fact. People who just played a few years cant understand these things. The behaivour has changed, this is a fact, to deny that fact is your way but its still a fact.

 

The WoW community was in the trash well before any LFD tools came out. A simple glance of public chat channels during the time could show you that.

 

Fact: millions of players in multi mmo's use cross server lfd tools ona daily basis and never complain.

 

Thats actually not true. Even at wow with its currently almost 10 mio accounts, only a few hundred thousand are using the tool. There was once a nice picture at MMO Champ, just look it up. If I remember it was close to 1Mio, characters - since most people play 2 or 3 you can easily get the numbers.

And that nobody of them does complain is a myth, check the forums at wow - you will see the truth there.

 

Fact: there is ZERO ninja looting with a good need/greed system in cross server lfd(some thing we do not have here yet).

 

There is ninja looting at wow. Even the LFR with its adjusted looting system still has a way open exploids like with trinkets, amuletts.

 

Fact: with cross server lfd, cross server friends list and cross server invite and cross server whispers your friends list has more people available to add to.

 

Which does not exist in any game so far. The only thing you can do atm. is ignore people, but there is no way of adding them to your f list or even talking to them, outside of the group. I tried this because that 1 good group I had in years I wanted to keep - it did not work.

 

City of heroes lets you communicate cross server and SoE games let you communicate across GAMES. It's quite easy to implement actually.

 

Fact: good people exist out side of just your own server.

 

Wow, the first true fact in your post. While you are right, explain to me please how I can look for them directly, in an automated tool? There is no button for that, show me how to filter the kids, unskilled and elitist´s so that I can play with the good guys and we are ready to go. Until then, that fact does not help anyone at all.

 

The same way you do it same server, talk and interact with them. Again if you don't like the tool don't use it. If most people are using it and you can't get by without it then too bad so sad you are in the minority. Its catch-22 for you isn't it? Either people will like it SO MUCH it won't be very 'optional' or people will hate it which means there isn't anything for you to worry about.

 

Fact: Fact: /ignore is all you need for taking care of a bad player. Any thing else is your desire to control the player outside of their effect on you.

 

If you ignore them, whats then? He is still in the group and does do stupid things. He can still initiate kicks for friends of mine, he can still ninja pull or take loot etc.

 

Ignore then leave the group, obviously. you can not help to control other peoples actions. anyone who thinks otherwise doesn;t know how the world works.

 

Fact: Anti cross server people have zero facts to back their claims!

 

They have more fact´s than you in your post atleast.

No they don't. Personal opinions do not count as facts, EVER. IN ANY SCENARIO. The pro side has what is called 'metrics' where the support for LFD is quantifiable measurable. Right now LFD is at the very least 'steady' if not growing. if games were removing it you MIGHT have a leg to stand on, unfortunately for you they aren't.

 

 

 

Personal experiences in BOTH sides are valid facts imo. Not seeing them is just denying them.

 

Problem is personal experiences can be easily nullified with an opposing one, so therefore its a waste of time to bring them up at all.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Neiloch

[MalignX]

You are both spinning your wheels with that one, just look up their previous posts. You're better off just /ignoring.

 

Love it as legit an argument as any I've heard from the otherside:

Fact: devs in multi mmo's have stated their cross server lfd are a success! stating that more players than ever before are running and completing the content.

 

Fact: even older games are adding cross server lfd tools.

 

Fact cross server lfd tools are now considered a common mmo tool ( more games have them than dont).

 

Fact: there is no proof that server communities are destroyed with cross server lfd tools. There is only personal opinions.

 

Fact: millions of players in multi mmo's use cross server lfd tools ona daily basis and never complain.

 

Fact: there is ZERO ninja looting with a good need/greed system in cross server lfd(some thing we do not have here yet).

 

Fact: with cross server lfd, cross server friends list and cross server invite and cross server whispers your friends list has more people available to add to.

 

Fact: good people exist out side of just your own server.

 

Fact: Fact: /ignore is all you need for taking care of a bad player. Any thing else is your desire to control the player outside of their effect on you.

 

Fact: Anti cross server people have zero facts to back their claims

Edited February 3, 2012 by MalignX