Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[Nitewolfe]

Thank you all for the constructive feedback. I would like to know explain better some points that I made that have been called into question.

 

 

 

This is exactly why I used it as well, I don't deny that I used it, it's just I feel that the negatives the system brought outweigh the positives. This is highly opinionated though and everyone experience could be different. Thus we now move into why I brought Gear Score up in the first place. On my server back in WoW, GS only came around when Bliz added a built in gear check to the LFD tool. People now needed to know their score and how it was compiled in order to improve it so they can run instances. People started downloading the addon and everything went downhill. Elitism was horridly rampant.

 

I'm not saying people weren't kicked due to gear before GS. I'm just saying, in my personal experience, that it got worse and blown out of proportion. In my mind due to this experience Wrath LFD and GS were something that walked hand in hand. I didn't even think that this wasn't true on all servers. I do now see how they could be separate issues and will drop this tangent.

 

 

 

 

 

As I stated, you don't even need to reduce the CD on the Emergency Fleet Pass, although I don't know why they felt the need to increase it by so much, because there is already a FP shuttle on almost every planet. However I do realize that so people wouldn't want to even do that so the best option is to make it so you could accept the group invitation and not be immediately teleported. When you are ready to go you just hit a "Travel to FP" button and away you go. Of course a timer, maybe 5min, would have to be put on this so somebody doesn't hold the group up for an hour.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

 

 

Now that you mention it I do remember this being issue from BC to Cata. I wouldn't be against having a random option that could by pass locks. I do think having my specific ques like I previously described would be a vast improvement over only random ques. We should have the best of both worlds!

 

 

 

You bring up a valid point about the fear of it being abused. I could see how people could go Batman on trolls and ninjas but at the same time someone posts "LOL LOOK AT THIS N00B!!!!!" and shame people for the wrong reasons.

 

Thus I open it for discussion: What would a better reporting tool look like/be?

 

I firmly believe that if a LFD tool is implemented that a better reporting system is needed.

 

"Why? Just suck it up and get over."

 

For the same reason people have locks on doors. It isn't to keep bad guys out, bad people will still break into your house regardless of a lock if they really want to, it is to keep good people good.

 

If there were some sort of consequence for being a indecent person than normal people would be discouraged from becoming trolls just because others are trolls.

 

 

 

 

Here here! These are indeed great options and ideas. i would love to see a xserver friend and ignore list. I don't know how feasible it would be but we can hope! As I also stated i am a for role options and I will accept, expecially after reading more of the constructive posts in these forums, that the option for xserver ques may be an inevitablity. It NEEDS to be an option though, or they could pull from the server first and then after 10min or so start to pull from xserver.

 

Keep the constructive feedback coming!

 

Lets be clear here wow lfd does not use gear score to check you! What it does use is average item level. It is done before you are even put in a group. So you cant be kick fro ma group because if it. If your average item level is to low the tool will not put you in a dungeon that requires a average item level above what you have. This is done for a very good reason, It stop you from running a zone that you have no business running. Fact is that you need that ilevel or above to put out the require numbers (be it dps, damage not taken or heals). Gearscore the add on is a player created system and has always had issues with being abused and open to HIS interpretation of the numbers. Where as the wow average ilevel is done via the data blizzard collected in game. Hard solid numbers.

 

Also the requirement of average ilevel is only for random pug groups. You can still form the group manually and still manually zone in regardless of the average ilevel.

This allows group or friends groups to carry the undergeared player if they so choose to to gear that player up or for specific drops.

So while yes the wow lfd tool uses a gear check system it also still allowed for undergeared players to be ran thru zones. What it did do is save the random pug player from ending up with players way undergeared for the zone. Also the required ilevel was very small. It has never been hard to get above the requirement!

 

I will not cover the add on gearscore since it is a player created system not a Blizzard created on.

 

No on to the name and shame part. Since swtor already has a no name and shame policy here we can completely drop ever being able to post about possible bad players here on the forums. I know i have personally reported a few post i find doing this and they quickly vanish.

Any system is open for abuse because it relies on player input. I personally feel that any thing past /ignore is not needed. Once that person is on ignore they can never have a impact on you again. If this is not good enough for a person then they clearly have a desire to control that person they do not like beyond the effect on just them and brings in to play vengeance and wraith has no fury like a player scorned.

These are not IMO some thing a game needs to promote.

So as you say why do you need a better reporting tool? You do nto need one. Use /ignore and your DOOR is locked forever against that player. If its a really bad issue then use the in game report tool and BW can decided to take action if needed.

Any thing else and its like letting every one go around posting wanted dead or alive posters in the area.

[Nitewolfe]

The biggest reason pro-LFD advocates harp on the ignore function is because its the only way (and i can't stress enough the one and only way) to ensure you don't have to mess around with people you've had a bad experience with in the past. Server blacklists don't get it done. And mostly I'm just not comfortable with the more punitive suggestions people make - its always too open to abuse. Ignore fixes the problem in a more permanent way. Barring something truly obnoxious, you don't have to report someone you'll never group with again.

 

I think a better way to go about this is to put more control (even via cross server) in players hands regarding who they group with using an LFD tool. Its been suggested multiple times (some of them in this thread) that along with cross server friends lists/chat, you should have the option to rate players that you've grouped with previously. A purely personal rating that only serves to rate your preference for grouping with that person again in the future and isn't in any way attached to the player being rated. You'd be able to rate people up or down and the LFD system would then attempt to place you with people you've previously rated up while avoiding those you've previously rated down. Yes, you'd still be subject to bad behavior while you're populating your lists, but it avoids the possibility of abuse that would come with a more public rating system.

 

I would be find with a personal ranking system as long as NO one else could see how YOU ranked that person. I think you agree or thats how i read it.

I do see it begin a lot more complex to code but with in the realm of doable.

The system would try to team me with a tank i rated as 5 stars but if there was no 5 star tank it would look lower and lower on my list until it hit a set point of do not team with less than so many stars.

 

But to be clear it would be only personal rated/ranked. It would not be visible to ANYONE else.

[BigGun]

The biggest reason pro-LFD advocates harp on the ignore function is because its the only way (and i can't stress enough the one and only way) to ensure you don't have to mess around with people you've had a bad experience with in the past. Server blacklists don't get it done. And mostly I'm just not comfortable with the more punitive suggestions people make - its always too open to abuse. Ignore fixes the problem in a more permanent way. Barring something truly obnoxious, you don't have to report someone you'll never group with again.

 

I think a better way to go about this is to put more control (even via cross server) in players hands regarding who they group with using an LFD tool. Its been suggested multiple times (some of them in this thread) that along with cross server friends lists/chat, you should have the option to rate players that you've grouped with previously. A purely personal rating that only serves to rate your preference for grouping with that person again in the future and isn't in any way attached to the player being rated. You'd be able to rate people up or down and the LFD system would then attempt to place you with people you've previously rated up while avoiding those you've previously rated down. Yes, you'd still be subject to bad behavior while you're populating your lists, but it avoids the possibility of abuse that would come with a more public rating system.

 

I like your ideas! The personal rating system would indeed be a great addition to x-server friend and ignore lists, and BioWare could use the feedback to root out problem player anonymously (since they would have access to these personal ratings, they are made in their game). This is a system I could put my vote behind.

 

"Why do you care so much about players that are on your ignore list?"

 

Because I don't want new or causal players to be victimized by the same person and think that is how everyone acts. I am not out for "vengeance" or "wrath" against these players, I just don't want what happened to me to happen to other players.

[crookd]

Felt like bumping this up AFTER RUNNING IN TARIS,IMPERIAL FLEET AND ALDERAAN FOR AN HOUR to find tank.

 

The fun way of playing, spamming chat and jumping around circles

[Touchbass]

Felt like bumping this up AFTER RUNNING IN TARIS,IMPERIAL FLEET AND ALDERAAN FOR AN HOUR to find tank.

 

The fun way of playing, spamming chat and jumping around circles

 

Yeah, good times. Don't worry there working on a tool to fix these issues atm, lets just hope it goes far enough.

[Sendrel]

But to be clear it would be only personal rated/ranked. It would not be visible to ANYONE else.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much it. You won't ever see how someone else rates the people you get grouped with, nor will they see how you've rated anyone else. Its sole purpose is to facilitate grouping with people you meet and rate up.

 

And I'm not a tech guy, so I have no idea how complex that would be to code. If I had to guess, those features are probably out of BW's reach for the immediate future.

[Manathayria]

Now that you mention it I do remember this being issue from BC to Cata. I wouldn't be against having a random option that could by pass locks. I do think having my specific ques like I previously described would be a vast improvement over only random ques. We should have the best of both worlds!

It was very very rarely an issue in BC - they gave the randoms that bypassed locks in Wrath.

 

Which was sort of the key there - random bypasses the lock, but specific q sets the locks and follows the ones in place. You can't q both random and specific at once, but you can go specific then once you hit lockouts go for random. (which is the current system). In WoW during BC very few people ran into the issue because you probably had 20ish heroics to run through once you had all your heroics unlocked. Between higher population servers and the wide variety of dungeons you rarely hit a group that couldn't chain do a few before having to call it - but it did happen on occasion. (During BC I was probably a 'hardcore' player even though my raid group wasn't very progressed. We were sort of a 'stepping stone' raid group that eventually disbanded because of it).

 

Here here! These are indeed great options and ideas. i would love to see a xserver friend and ignore list. I don't know how feasible it would be but we can hope! As I also stated i am a for role options and I will accept, expecially after reading more of the constructive posts in these forums, that the option for xserver ques may be an inevitablity. It NEEDS to be an option though, or they could pull from the server first and then after 10min or so start to pull from xserver.

 

Keep the constructive feedback coming!

Very possible to do the x-server friends lists and ignore lists. The issue is they need to set the system up so it's not character based and is acct based. Remember guild wars has the friend list based on acct (though they have no separate servers) Blizzard has the battletags, so there has to be some way for the system to work here - the question is how and how long till it's seen if at all.

 

At this point though... we need a LFG/LFD tool... anything would work at this point as long as it's rewarding group play and not solo only. What I mean by that is this;

 

WoW's current LFD tool rewards tanks and healers - when they're high need roles - to que solo by giving them rewards for it. This is a horrible system. At no point does it reward people for grouping up with friends/guild. It really doesn't encourage your two highest demand roles in the game to make friends at all until you hit raids - and even then it's only if you're hitting normal/hard modes with how the new LFR system is done there. To keep people in, we almost need something that rewards group play going into dungeons and not full pugging. Dungeons and new content only keep one in so long before they move on - friends and guilds/communities that are strong enough will keep someone playing long after they've lost interest in the new scenery.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Manathayria

[Touchbass]

I hope your enjoying your stay with us BigGun, you and your ideas are welcome I've been running around the house today but what do you think of our compromise idea that some of us have proposed?

 

X-LFD check box

Server only check box

 

Maybe some sort of rating system attached to player feedback in the future

[Touchbass]

Testing

[Sendrel]

I like your ideas! The personal rating system would indeed be a great addition to x-server friend and ignore lists, and BioWare could use the feedback to root out problem player anonymously (since they would have access to these personal ratings, they are made in their game). This is a system I could put my vote behind.

 

Actually, given enough people agree with you that someone is a bad egg, the problem sorts itself out eventually without any need for intervention. Unless a situation called for someone putting in a ticket, BW should never have to lift a finger to moderate bad behavior.

 

Because I don't want new or causal players to be victimized by the same person and think that is how everyone acts. I am not out for "vengeance" or "wrath" against these players, I just don't want what happened to me to happen to other players.

 

I get that, I just think that people should be afforded the opportunity to make up their own minds with as little bias as possible.

[Shotgunkarma]

I'm a little late to this forum party but want to throw in my 2 credits on a LFG tool. Using the finder to get groups for flash points would be amazing, I've got 2 50s and haven't even ran more than 5 flash points. I just couldn't find groups for them before I gave up and went back to questing.

 

However, if such a tool were implemented I would seriously advise against using it for operations. A Raid Finder tool was by far the biggest fun killer for me in the last MMO I played.

 

Before the raid finder was put into play I had never downed the big end game boss before the new content was released, (casual player) and I had been playing this way for roughly 5 years. We'd get near the big boss and new content would come out, we'd go back and finally kill it, then move into the new stuff.

 

As soon as that raid finder came out suddenly Everyone I knew had cleared ALL content (not on hard mode) so when it was time to raid I just didn't have that drive to continue on like I used to.

 

I still attended our guild raids but because of the raid finder my character was decked out in gear from content our guild hadn't gotten to yet. I was wearing the rewards from things we hadn't killed.

 

It took away the fun of finally killing the big boss as a group and working hard for the gear

 

(Yes I know the gear is slightly better without the tool, yes I know the content is harder without the tool) But ultimately I lost my motivation.

 

TL;DR - LFG for flashpoints could be awesome. LFG for operations could be detrimental

[BlueSkittles]

I'm a little late to this forum party but want to throw in my 2 credits on a LFG tool. Using the finder to get groups for flash points would be amazing, I've got 2 50s and haven't even ran more than 5 flash points. I just couldn't find groups for them before I gave up and went back to questing.

 

However, if such a tool were implemented I would seriously advise against using it for operations. A Raid Finder tool was by far the biggest fun killer for me in the last MMO I played.

 

Before the raid finder was put into play I had never downed the big end game boss before the new content was released, (casual player) and I had been playing this way for roughly 5 years. We'd get near the big boss and new content would come out, we'd go back and finally kill it, then move into the new stuff.

 

As soon as that raid finder came out suddenly Everyone I knew had cleared ALL content (not on hard mode) so when it was time to raid I just didn't have that drive to continue on like I used to.

 

I still attended our guild raids but because of the raid finder my character was decked out in gear from content our guild hadn't gotten to yet. I was wearing the rewards from things we hadn't killed.

 

It took away the fun of finally killing the big boss as a group and working hard for the gear

 

(Yes I know the gear is slightly better without the tool, yes I know the content is harder without the tool) But ultimately I lost my motivation.

 

TL;DR - LFG for flashpoints could be awesome. LFG for operations could be detrimental

 

Welcome! Great feedback.

 

I had the exact opposite feeling towards WoW's LFR. It was an "about time" feature for me. I was never able to run the raid content unless, like you did, my guild would run it after the next tier came out. But that never seemed like fun. Like I was missing out on the "story" of the current tier. LFR let me kill Deathwing and I was a happy player. Then I unsubscribed becuase of SWTOR and am now completely missing an Operation finder (or will be once I reach 50).

[Touchbass]

What level and server you at Blue?

[BlueSkittles]

What level and server you at Blue?

 

Just got level 40 on my Jedi Sage, after I got past the horror that is Attis Station (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=77090). Also why I was wanting a LFD so I could help outlevel/outgear that awful quest. Server is Begeren Colony, west coast RP-PVE.

Edited February 1, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[Touchbass]

Just got level 40 on my Jedi Sage, after I got past the horror that is Attis Station (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=77090). Also why I was wanting a LFD so I could help outlevel/outgear that awful quest. Server is Begeren Colony, west coast RP-PVE.

 

I'm on Shadow Hand rocking a 34 Merc BH. I really want to go heals and level a bit with that and pvp but the changing back and forth is too archaic for my liking

[BlueSkittles]

I'm on Shadow Hand rocking a 34 Merc BH. I really want to go heals and level a bit with that and pvp but the changing back and forth is too archaic for my liking

 

By "changing back and forth is too archaic" you mean lack of dual spec?

 

And I did the PVP healing thing and it was actually quite fun for awhile. Then I realized again that I hate PVP and just came back to these forums to ask for LFD.

[BlueSkittles]

Looks like we have some hard numbers finally:

 

1.7 Million Active Subscribers + Growing – EA Earnings Call

http://www.askajedi.com/2012/02/01/1-7-million-active-subscribers-growing-ea-earnings-call/

 

And the discussion of it in the General forum:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260271

Edited February 1, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[Touchbass]

Looks like we have some hard numbers finally:

 

1.7 Million Active Subscribers + Growing – EA Earnings Call

http://www.askajedi.com/2012/02/01/1-7-million-active-subscribers-growing-ea-earnings-call/

 

And the discussion of it in the General forum:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260271

 

Something doesn't sound right, 85% retention and growing? Well that's good news if it's true for the game Still gotta wait for 6 months though to see what the real numbers are.

[BlueSkittles]

Something doesn't sound right, 85% retention and growing? Well that's good news if it's true for the game Still gotta wait for 6 months though to see what the real numbers are.

 

I thought the same thing. And also "Holy ****, now they have no reason to do anything. We'll never get a decent LFD tool." I'll just have to whine and ***** even more now.

Edited February 1, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[MalignX]

I thought the same thing. And also "Holy ****, now they have no reason to do anything. We'll never get a decent LFD tool." I'll just have to whine and ***** even more now.

Allow us to assist in whining, I've post more on this forum in the last week than I've played in two, now.

[Nitewolfe]

Looks like we have some hard numbers finally:

 

1.7 Million Active Subscribers + Growing – EA Earnings Call

http://www.askajedi.com/2012/02/01/1-7-million-active-subscribers-growing-ea-earnings-call/

 

And the discussion of it in the General forum:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260271

 

Color me skeptical. When warhammer released EA was quick to announce that it had broken a EA record for pre order sales at 1.5 million. They never have said that swtor broke that record.

So i am not supper impressed with 1.7 mill in one month.

[Neiloch]

I've pretty much given up. I already unsubbed a while ago but I just haven't been logging on my level 50 since my attempts before that were wasted hours of my life.

 

This game has done nothing significant to STEAL me from EQ2, which I can get groups on without a LFD for anyone who still insists we are 'lazy.' Maybe I'll check SWTOR out again when I see they FINALLY launched some LFG improvements on Massively or something.

 

I am starting to think smaller groups sizes are making groups harder to get when working with the 'holy trinity' formula. No matter the group size 3 of those slots are already determined, tank , healer, DPS. So in SWTOR that leaves 1 slot usually for DPS. In EQ2 there are 6 group slots, so you still have another 3 slots to fill with w/e the hell you want. So basically more people get in a group with the same amount of tanks and healers.

 

1 tank on SWTOR means 4 people get a group, 1 tank on some other MMO's means 5 or 6 people get a group. I would say bigger groups would be nice, but doing that would require a massive undertaking in content balance alone.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Neiloch

[Touchbass]

 

I am starting to think smaller groups sizes are making groups harder to get when working with the 'holy trinity' formula. No matter the group size 3 of those slots are already determined, tank , healer, DPS. So in SWTOR that leaves 1 slot usually for DPS. In EQ2 there are 6 group slots, so you still have another 3 slots to fill with w/e the hell you want. So basically more people get in a group with the same amount of tanks and healers.

 

.

 

Groups of 4 have to be the most retarded thing I've ever seen in a game you'd think people would want to socialize in bigger groups

[MalignX]

Groups of 4 have to be the most retarded thing I've ever seen in a game you'd think people would want to socialize in bigger groups

 

Agreed as well.

[Caeljedi]

I agree that the LFD program is conevenient and easy, but I would still prefer only being to access the dungeons physically. But, perhaps an LFD tool that works per server, not cross-server, and doesnt teleport players to the dungeon, but rather forms groups, that then show up togother for the dungeon. This allows groups to be formed all over the various planets of the server, and is basicly a compromise between the two majorities of opinions on the subject - Being able to teleport there instantly and fully grouped, and not being able to teleport at all and taking the time to find a group of players.