Damage meters / gear checks (no thx)

[Cavadus]

Whether or not any of this is implemented makes no difference to me. I don't group outside of my guild and we don't care about statistics like this.

 

We're friends and we play together. That's that.

 

If you're worried about being excluded from things like this you should really be worrying about who you're playing the game with. I guess they're not that cool after all.

[Ronamo]

Because they may have a life outside the game? I know its hard to imagine going to work, paying bills, raising children.

 

Also some people play the game because its just fun. You take away that aspect when you turn it into a huge competition.

 

I'm failing to see how not devoting 100% of your time to the game, or playing for fun instead of competition validates your idea that there are "good" (that is, understand the mechanics of the game and their applications, and the social contracts involved in an MMO experience) players who sit around in gear sufficiently poor that it would cause a large disparity in their performance compared to others of their level.

[Siltyn]

I remember the good old days of figuring out your class and those epic encounters yourself through trial and error...and the sense of accomplishment that came when you did so. That so many of today's gamers need a meter (or any other add-on) to play their class well and down an epic encounter is sad to me.

 

Though if other's need a crutch to play this, or any other game, I'm not against you having them....I'll simply choose to never install one. I just hope all meters/mods are provided by Bioware and they never allow 3rd party mods....I really don't want to see the forums ablaze in "my account was hacked" posts, because the mod they installed ripped their user id and password.

[Buur]

I remember the good old days of figuring out your class and those epic encounters yourself through trial and error...and the sense of accomplishment that came when you did so. That so many of today's gamers need a meter (or any other add-on) to play their class well and down an epic encounter is sad to me.

 

Though if other's need a crutch to play this, or any other game, I'm not against you having them....I'll simply choose to never install one. I just hope all meters/mods are provided by Bioware and they never allow 3rd party mods....I really don't want to see the forums ablaze in "my account was hacked" posts, because the mod they installed ripped their user id and password.

 

This post is so misguided. You should delete it.

[Daedricshots]

I'm failing to see how not devoting 100% of your time to the game, or playing for fun instead of competition validates your idea that there are "good" (that is, understand the mechanics of the game and their applications, and the social contracts involved in an MMO experience) players who sit around in gear sufficiently poor that it would cause a large disparity in their performance compared to others of their level.

 

No idea what you're talking about. Try writing that reply again without trying to sound overly educated. Nonsenical jibberish is all i see.

[Daedricshots]

You can still play it as a social game even if they have damage meters. No one forces you to compete.

 

Its not a matter of being forced its a matter of discrimination. Players will not be allowed to raid based on gear instead of individual performance. Its homogenizing a person down to what they're wearing as opposed to their skill level. Again i need to restate the gear youre wearing != to your skill as an individual player.

[Frostvein]

How do you account for players being carried then? And honestly lets be real, how hard is it to know a pve encounter? PVE people want to inflate their "skill" but its a a scripted event give me a break.

 

Event: A

Action: Move to Location B

Spam rotation

Wash rinse repeat.

 

Even a monkey could do it.

 

 

First off, players are carried. It happens. No one disputes this. What I said was, someone who has the gear has at least saw the encounter, whereas someone without probably has not. No where did anyone say it was 100% accurate.

 

When forming a group of complete strangers, going on their gear is one of the few ways you can try and size someone up. Player A has gear off of the boss you are trying to kill. Player B doesn't. Logically, Player A saw the encounter and was part of a successful kill on him. Player B might have, but you don't know for sure.

 

Further, if PvE is SO easy, then why did less then 4% of players kill H Rag? Its not that simple. Normal mode and the first few bosses of heroic are a joke, the rest typically isn't..

[Buur]

Its not a matter of being forced its a matter of discrimination. Players will not be allowed to raid based on gear instead of individual performance. Its homogenizing a person down to what they're wearing as opposed to their skill level. Again i need to restate the gear youre wearing != to your skill as an individual player.

 

I am not talking about gear score. I mentioned damage meters and if your dps is terrible you shouldn't be raiding. Not sure what you are talking about.

[Daedricshots]

First off, players are carried. It happens. No one disputes this. What I said was, someone who has the gear has at least saw the encounter, whereas someone without probably has not. No where did anyone say it was 100% accurate.

 

When forming a group of complete strangers, going on their gear is one of the few ways you can try and size someone up. Player A has gear off of the boss you are trying to kill. Player B doesn't. Logically, Player A saw the encounter and was part of a successful kill on him. Player B might have, but you don't know for sure.

 

Further, if PvE is SO easy, then why did less then 4% of players kill H Rag? Its not that simple. Normal mode and the first few bosses of heroic are a joke, the rest typically isn't..

 

So what if player b doesnt have the gear but still ran the instance and didnt get a drop? Gona base it on the achievement then? So we move from gearscore to achievement score is that what i'm hearing?

 

There could be many reasons why people dont complete H rag or any high end instance and to list them all really whats the point? Too many factors.

[PessimiStick]

Its not a matter of being forced its a matter of discrimination. Players will not be allowed to raid based on gear instead of individual performance. Its homogenizing a person down to what they're wearing as opposed to their skill level. Again i need to restate the gear youre wearing != to your skill as an individual player.

An idiot in "400" gear will be more useful than an idiot in "250" gear.

 

Since it's impossible to know, ahead of time, if the player you're inviting is an idiot (and most are), taking the one in "400" gear is the winning strategy.

[Daedricshots]

I am not talking about gear score. I mentioned damage meters and if your dps is terrible you shouldn't be raiding. Not sure what you are talking about.

 

Im talking about gearscore. If you're simply talking about dps meters thats another story, but you have to admit its just another way to discriminate.

[Daedricshots]

An idiot in "400" gear will be more useful than an idiot in "250" gear.

 

Since it's impossible to know, ahead of time, if the player you're inviting is an idiot (and most are), taking the one in "400" gear is the winning strategy.

 

And when mr 400 comes up short on dps or wipes the raid, whats the excuse then?

[PessimiStick]

There could be many reasons why people dont complete H rag or any high end instance and to list them all really whats the point? Too many factors.

Most of those reasons come down to "not very good at the game". The only legitimate exceptions are people who have succeeded at high end content at some point, but don't have the time or inclination to do so anymore. That is a small subset of players though, and it's not common that you run into them.

[PessimiStick]

And when mr 400 comes up short on dps or wipes the raid, whats the excuse then?

 

Then you remove him and get someone else. How is this confusing for you?

[Griminal]

I'm pretty sure the only people who are against Damage Meters are people who's ability to play the game ( or lack of ability rather ) will be shown.

[Taroen]

Shocking as it may sound, many people play the game for fun and would rather not stress or be belittled about their gear or lack of.

 

Shocking as it may sound, there are 15 other people in the operation that may not find it so much fun to wipe over and over because YOUR idea of fun is to be undergeared or not optimal for the fights...

 

GS is not needed in this game. We can inspect you to see if you have appropriate gear for the content. But metrics most certainly are needed, for several reasons.

 

And... They're coming so get over it.

 

By the way, if someone "belittles" you over your gear, you have located an idiot. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. Idiots are idiots no matter what tools are involved. Ignore them.

 

Why do you want so badly to play with people that would do that, anyway..?

[PessimiStick]

I'm pretty sure the only people who are against Damage Meters are people who's ability to play the game ( or lack of ability rather ) will be shown.

It's always this, they just don't want to admit it.

[Daedricshots]

Then you remove him and get someone else. How is this confusing for you?

 

It proves your methods for choosing suck my friend. How is that confusing for you?

[Ronamo]

No idea what you're talking about. Try writing that reply again without trying to sound overly educated. Nonsenical jibberish is all i see.

 

 

The fact that some players might choose not to play as often as others, or the fact that some players choose to play for fun instead of competition in no way makes what you said true.

 

A good player will understand how the game works and how to play, and they will also understand how to work well with other people while being polite. If they understand how the game works and how to work well with other people, they will understand that they shouldn't have gear so old that it's going to hold other people back.

 

If they do not understand how the game works, how to use that info, or how to work well with other people, then they are not "good" at playing an MMO.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Moitteva
removed rude comments

[Buur]

It proves your methods for choosing suck my friend. How is that confusing for you?

 

So trying to make an informed decision and being wrong is worse than flipping a coin?

[PessimiStick]

It proves your methods for choosing suck my friend. How is that confusing for you?

Actually it proves nothing of the sort, but I'm glad you can't understand simple logic and game theory.

[Daedricshots]

You misspelled nonsensical and gibberish, and failed to capitalize a first person pronoun, which might explain why you couldn't understand my previous post.

 

Let me dumb it down for you:

 

The fact that some players might choose not to play as often as others, or the fact that some players choose to play for fun instead of competition in no way makes what you said true.

 

A good player will understand how the game works and how to play, and they will also understand how to work well with other people while being polite. If they understand how the game works and how to work well with other people, they will understand that they shouldn't have gear so old that it's going to hold other people back.

 

If they do not understand how the game works, how to use that info, or how to work well with other people, then they are not "good" at playing an MMO.

 

Generalization and assumptions. Good day sir.

[DaxRendar]

There is an intermediate position too...

 

NO Meters on Normal Difficulty

ADD Meters on Hardmode Difficulty

NO Meters on Nightmare (if you really are Elite, perfect your Strats in Hard and beat the content on Nightmare without them )

[Daedricshots]

Actually it proves nothing of the sort, but I'm glad you can't understand simple logic and game theory.

 

No lifers like yourself love to make excuses for it.

[Ketchum]

I'm against damage meters. This game was always meant for fun, not numbers.

 

If damage meters are put in then you'll most definitely see people getting kicked from groups left and right for not doing 100k DPS, and next thing you know they'll be kicking healers for not doing their share of damage when they're not healing or tanks for holding aggro but just not killing things fast enough. Things like this breed morons. Bioware knows this, which is why they left them out in the first place.