LaManoNera Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I don’t get people’s desire for BW to bolt on a flight simulator to this MMO. Why create a complete stand alone game inside one of a different genre? If I want a flight sim i’ll go buy one. Space combat already IS a complete stand alone game inside the game. Have you actually played it? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galius Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Space combat already IS a complete stand alone game inside the game. Have you actually played it? :confused: Nailed it. Same thing has gone through my head every time someone used that silly reason not to have good space combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itekazzawrrlic Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Really, all of those points I just listed occured in space? Are you sure you've even watched Star Wars? I really am curious at this point. None were turning points of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulcholio Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I don’t get people’s desire for BW to bolt on a flight simulator to this MMO. Why create a complete stand alone game inside one of a different genre? If I want a flight sim i’ll go buy one. Space combat already IS a complete stand alone game inside the game. Have you actually played it? :confused: You are absolutely right LaManoNera. The current space flight is already a game inside of a different genre. It just happens to be a rail-shooter, so Lonestarr's argument is bias right out of the gate. It boils down to "Which is better, and will it enhance or hinder SWTOR?" The problem is, most of the people who want it to remain a rail shooter either have not experience a X-wing vs. Tie Fighter or SWG Jump To Light Speed and have not experienced the potential that detail and control done properly fit well in a MMORPG, or are either afraid that it will become too hard to control without special hardware. The funny thing is, it doesn't have to be a flight simulator. Why not just take it of the rails and actually let us pilot the ship? The majority of us who want to change it from a rail shooter have experienced the role playing depth that good flight combat provides. Edited February 4, 2012 by Paulcholio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaManoNera Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 You are absolutely right LaManoNera. The current space flight is already a game inside of a different genre. It just happens to be a rail-shooter, so Lonestarr's argument is bias right out of the gate. It boils down to "Which is better, and will it enhance or hinder SWTOR?" The problem is, most of the people who want it to remain a rail shooter either have not experience a X-wing vs. Tie Fighter or SWG Jump To Light Speed and have not experienced the potential that detail and control done properly fit well in a MMORPG, or are either afraid that it will become too hard to control without special hardware. The funny thing is, it doesn't have to be a flight simulator. Why not just take it of the rails and actually let us pilot the ship? The majority of us who want to change it from a rail shooter have experienced the role playing depth that good flight combat provides. Why not have both? Keep the on-rails encounters (I enjoyed them) but add deeper, off-rails, multiplayer space gameplay for those who want more. The great thing about MMOs is that they offer variety (in theory...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandtrooper Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I disagree with the OP. I'd love to see an expanded space game. This rail shooter os ok (just ok) but it would be great to get out there and just fly ... Sand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I really respect and understand those people who are against changing space flight from a rail shooter to more realistic combat flight. It is comfortable, easy to play, and I admit, is fun. But the one thing they had right in Star Wars Galaxies was the space combat, and although I didn’t expect Bioware to create a clone of SWG’s Jump To Lightspeed, I was expecting to be able to actually pilot my own ship, not be just a gunner that is able to do a few tactical dodges. With this being a rail shooter, I cannot do group space missions or do PVP space combat. The fact that these large multi-passenger ships we have received maneuver like dragonflies in flight ruin the suspense of disbelief for me and is just not as fun. As more-mass-needs-greater-thrust, a larger ship would maneuver more slowly. The twitch rail shooter game as it is really should be more a 1 man fighter. What would be great is if you could be able to pilot your ship, man torpedoes and forward firing cannon while having a few friends who you group with man turrets in your ship. The argument of “If I wanted a flight simulator, I would buy one” is a bit overstating the subject, just as if me saying “If I wanted a rail shooter, I would dust one off and put it in my game console”. Why can’t there be a compromise in the middle of just taking the ship off the “rail”? Why not have both? If they know what they are planning tell us. If they do not have a plan at this time, tell us. I explained this. If they get to a point where they realize they can't pull it off the hell that'll rain down because they "promised" it is gonna be EPIK!!! Edited February 4, 2012 by DarthKhaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keihryon Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Why not have both? That is what most of us wanting an improved space area are saying. It's the ones who are afraid of the XvT, Alliance, Freespace, Freelancer style combat games that don't want anyone to have anything but the rail shooter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galius Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I explained this. If they get to a point where they realize they can't pull it off the hell that'll rain down because they "promised" it is gonna be EPIK!!! And I explained that if they are able to speak about other features not in game yet as things that are coming they can speak about this. No differnce no matter how you try to spin it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 And I explained that if they are able to speak about other features not in game yet as things that are coming they can speak about this. No differnce no matter how you try to spin it. Perhaps they have reached a point that they are certain they can complete that and get it in game for sure. Look at the development process. They did not mention something until they were 100% sure it was going into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galius Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Perhaps they have reached a point that they are certain they can complete that and get it in game for sure. Look at the development process. They did not mention something until they were 100% sure it was going into the game. Not true. The SGRA promise is that they will get to it some time in the future... in respose to the heated discussions pre launch. Exact same as this btw, we actually had more threads about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Not true. The SGRA promise is that they will get to it some time in the future... in respose to the heated discussions pre launch. Exact same as this btw, we actually had more threads about it. Firstly I got no idea what SGRA is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattaul Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Don't touch space combat! It's great how it is, we don't need the devs wasting time on some dumb flight sim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucasomega Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Why did EAware have to rip off another mmo developer's space game? Actually, the space combat trailer for SWTOR came Aug 17, 2010 before the release of Clone Wars Adventures on September 15, 2010. Seems to me they were developed concurrently. There was a trailer June 2, 2010 for Clone Wars Adventures that had space combat, but it wasn't more than a few seconds worth of space combat. It'd be unlikely that they saw that and developed their space combat to mirror it in such a short time frame... unless they had spies and it's all a huge conspiracy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucasomega Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Firstly I got no idea what SGRA is. Same gender romance arcs. I had no idea either. Yay Google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tocaseven Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 i totally agree , more would be nice but diffrent would suck a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmode Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I think they should do anything and everything with space combat. I think taking off the rails would be a step in the right direction. Folks, look at the movies. Im in no way a fanboi, but a lot of the movies had a lot of content in space, at least 4,5,6. I know bioware has said they never intended this to be a space sim, but I find, while leveling, space missions to be an invaluable source of income and especially XP. At max level, I find it useless. Ive said before, they could make it fun at max level...have random events that are announced if you are in fleet where the opposing faction(of npcs) is attacking fleet. You get a mission in your log to defend fleet via space combat for whatever sort of reward/commendation. Personally I think there are way too many types of currency in the game, but you get my drift. If they made the environment dynamic like that, much like rift(which is half the reason rift is so good), then they will really set themselves apart from everyone else. Take successes from other games combined with your own intuition and you have a great game. Take raiding and class structure from WoW. Take a dynamic environment/world from Rift Take bits from the talent system from Rift. Introduce a fully awsome space portion of the game. Make the game story centric.. Man the possibilities are endless with this game. I hope they are up to the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleius Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Look at what Star Wars Galaxies did with the Jump to Lightspeed expansion and improve that concept. Highly customizable ships, many different ships where you even needed multiple players to fully operate the larger ones (if you want to solo, just stick with the smaller ones) Make PvP arenas in space, make "ship gear" visibly different, color customizations and so on. The question "why do you want a flightsim inside an MMO?" is rather clear to me. Im sure quite a lot of people playing MMO's feel the simplicity and repetative elements can sometimes be too much. Im not saying you need the whole game to be all complex, but why not make a feature be incredibly deep and highly customizable? When you're bored of grinding through enemies and poorly written dialogue, it would feel great to jump into another style of gameplay to break the slow paced fighting with some really good space fighting. Hell, keep the railshooter, but add a new type of free flying, and everyone gets what they want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apatheistic Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I would like a persistent galaxy, to where players can travel their space ship to the planet, instead of just quick-traveling. This would increase immersion, especially when you can go into your hull as your drifting in space and work on professions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanZeppelin Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 First off I want to say that I want expanded-free/open space flight/combat (with everything that goes with that; customization and everything) and have been since the game's announcement (this is star wars), however that has been covered before various times by members of the community as well as myself. What I wanted to point out is that you already use around 15 buttons or so, if not more in the current state of the game (hotkeys/quickslots etc) so it is not like SWTOR uses just wasd, m1 and 2 only and changing that would alienate people, not to mention this is an rpg, an mmorpg, a pc game, so having a number of controls is expected, a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadoeWrayth Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I played STO for about 2 months... their space combat was awesome in my opinion, while the ground combat sucked hardcore... It was as if they made the game all about space combat, and the rest was just an after-thought... In SWTOR, seems it is just the opposite, Ground Combat/Adventure is awesome, Space Combat is lacking in almost every way... If they could make the Space Combat (first off, worthwhile... other than a bump in XP and a few extra creds, what IS the point of it?) fully dynamic like STO had it: complete control of your ship, truly 3-D environment, abilities to use, positions for your crew to take up, etc... right now, we have hardly any special abilities we can use in space, it is on rails, and apparently the only reason to have any companions along for the ride is so they can make sarcastic remarks about how well you are doing, or how badly you suck... What are they doing?? In STO, you at least knew why you had crew and what they were doing... Also, it would seem like the perfect place to add a whole new level of PVP to this game. EDIT: Also, There are a number of people in the SW saga (movies, books, games, etc etc) that were ONLY pilots... while I am NOT asking to make a 'pilot class', I am saying that it would be nice if they made the Space Combats something truly rewarding, such that you might rather be a pilot instead of a ground trooper... This would make having adventures at end-game that require both space combat AND ground combat to be done almost simultaneously. Think of the last battles in RotJ, had to have part of their 'raid' on the ground handling the shield generator, while the other part was up in space fighting... I think that mission would go something like this: Ground team goes into ground adventure while space team is in space. Until ground team finishes doing their tasks the space team has to continue flying and surviving (not trying to win necessarily, just LIVE), and once the shield gen is down, the space team can then begin the true attack with what resources they have left... During the wait, the space team may need to try various strats against several tie fighters + a couple star destroyers and a super star destroyer (akin to having a couple main tanks to keep their attention, or whatever, not sure, they could do all sorts of fun stuff with this) But, it would be obvious that for the space team, you would want to pick people who focused on space combat... Heck, they may even add a 4th tree to everyone's talent trees JUST for piloting skills... make people really choose between stuff (focus on ground adventure, or on space) Edited February 4, 2012 by ShadoeWrayth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriciaHarlow Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'd like to see it expanded greatly. I like the tunnel shooter we have, and don't want to see that go away, but I'd really like to see more 3-D open space, space zones with PVE, PVP, Flashpoints, and Ops. I'd also like the ships to be more customizable, equipment and interior design. There is just so much that can be done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altyrell Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'd imagine that the "Updates" that BioWare has planned for the current Space Combat System, is along the lines of more Ship Gear and possibly (though i don't know how feasible) SC Only Abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Same gender romance arcs. I had no idea either. Yay Google. Ahhh thanks for the info. And you can't seriously compare the difficulty in making same gender romance stories to that of making a fully fledged free flight space combat system. They already have romance arcs, they have the knowledge and experience in doing it so they are sure it can be done right. Can they say the same thing about the space combat. As I pointed out. During the development process of the game they never announced a feature was going to be in the game until they were 100% sure it was. Same will be done with a free flight space combat system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wepo Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) After reading random pages of this huge thread, I'm delighted to see a lot of reasonable people who can see how a 3D free flying space could co-exist with the current rails version. But those who are arguing against it are the worst kind of gamers. "Give me everything I want and don't give anyone else what they want!" Thank you to those who support a more dynamic space! Edited February 4, 2012 by Wepo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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