who do YOU guard?

[Tersidre]

I have had this debate amongst my guild and random pug groups the last week or so. Some people say to always put guard on the healer no matter what but honestly with the healer i normally run with i find that keeping guard on the best geared DPS to be of a solid use of the ability.

 

Thoughts?

[Dukibritches]

Typically this should be placed on your strongest melee DPS. Ranged DPS and Healers will normally stand further than 15m from the tank which results in Guard doing absolutely nothing. I will occasionally put guard on my healer if the situation calls for it, but I usually run with friends and I let them know that they need to stand near me to make sure its effective. You can tell it is active by the faint blue bubble around your guarded target. If you guard someone and they are out of the effective range they have no bubble and are not getting the benefit of guard.

[Pinguaq]

PvE?

 

We guard for threat mitigation, as it only transfers damage in PvP.

 

So, who is causing the most threat and whose should you mitigate? Healer is generating threat 'cause he's doing his job. If the DPS is taking agro that you cant get back by doing YOUR job as you normally would, then likely he is not performing at peak.

 

However, now we also have this pesky 15 meter rule. Can/should the healer try to remain within 15 meters of you?

 

IMO: If the party communicates well and is operating effectively, I think the healer needs the guard most. If you need to compensate for a trigger happy DPS, maybe move the guard to him to save yourself some hassle. Alternatively, there could be situations where your threat bonus cant compensate for the amount of DPS you want someone doing, so then you can feel good about moving it to him.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Pinguaq

[Gankstah]

I ran a Hammer run last night on my alt. We had two tanks both of whom insisted on guarding each other.

 

I **** you not.

 

Needless to say I, the healer, and our melee DPS ended up getting the lion's share of aggro. Your guard priority should always be Melee DPS>Ranged DPS>Heals. The only time this should deviate is in cases of gear/level disparity and PvP.

 

Period.

[Isharosh]

Except that you cant put guard on someone that is using his guard on someone, neither can you use guard on anyone if you already have guard on yourself...

[SWB-NL]

Usually my Sentinel guildy if I'm in a flashpoint with him for PvE. Experienced melee DPS who is quite trigger happy, so reduces any aggro issues. Not had any issues keeping aggro off healers single target, whereas when it comes to adds the biggest problem healers usually have is getting mobbed on spawn because the tank hasn't generated any threat yet and they do by healing. In those cases, Guard won't solve that either. And then there's of course the range issue.

 

In PVP, Guard goes on my girlfriend who plays a healing specced Sage, if she's in the neighbourhood.

Edited January 26, 2012 by SWB-NL

[Gankstah]

Except that you cant put guard on someone that is using his guard on someone, neither can you use guard on anyone if you already have guard on yourself...

 

They were bouncing it between each other as the DPS and I attained aggro. The Guardian kept his Guard on the VG. The VG would only guard the Sent when he pulled aggro. The Guardian would hot swap his guard to me when I pulled aggro and then the VG would pop his Guard onto the guardian.

 

In short, they were only using guard on the person who would pick up aggro. Why? Because of the 5% damage reduction. I tried to explain why this was not working and all I got was, "We know what we're doing." Really? Is that why DN-314 was shooting me in the face nearly the entire fight? Ok, just checking.

 

As a side note,

 

I realize that I didn't exactly state WHY you're supposed to use Melee>Ranged DPS>Heals as your guard priority.

 

• All healing is on a .5 coefficient threat rating. On top of that ranged threat has to trump the tanks threat by a rating of 1.3. Which means unless you're AFK or your healer severely outlevels the content you're running, he/she is never going to be pulling aggro off of you. Provided he/she doesn't get within melee range of the target.
  
• All ranged DPS, as listed above, has to trump the tanks threat rating by a factor of 1.3. Whereas melee has to trump your threat factor by a rating of 1.1 in order to attain aggro. Provided your Melee and Ranged DPS are on par with one another, and unless there are level or gearing disparities there's no reason they should not be, then your guard is best invested on the Melee DPS as he has a much better chance of pulling aggro off of you.
  

 

In short, keep your ranged at range and guard on your Melee DPS and make sure your group knows to throttle back if you get CC'd and you shouldn't have aggro issues.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Gankstah

[slacey]

 

I realize that I didn't exactly state WHY you're supposed to use Melee>Ranged DPS>Heals as your guard priority.

 

• All healing is on a .5 coefficient threat rating. On top of that ranged threat has to trump the tanks threat by a rating of 1.3. Which means unless you're AFK or your healer severely outlevels the content you're running, he/she is never going to be pulling aggro off of you. Provided he/she doesn't get within melee range of the target.
  
• All ranged DPS, as listed above, has to trump the tanks threat rating by a factor of 1.3. Whereas melee has to trump your threat factor by a rating of 1.1 in order to attain aggro. Provided your Melee and Ranged DPS are on par with one another, and unless there are level or gearing disparities there's no reason they should not be, then your guard is best invested on the Melee DPS as he has a much better chance of pulling aggro off of you.
  

 

In short, keep your ranged at range and guard on your Melee DPS and make sure your group knows to throttle back if you get CC'd and you shouldn't have aggro issues.

To add why Guarding healers (in 99% of situations) is a waste - when healers get aggro from tanks, it's from mobs that the the tank has not yet hit at all, or only very lightly - in other words, situations where the 25% threat reduction will not cause it to go to you. Also, the types of mobs healers get aggro from in most situations are Normal mobs mixed in with pulls of Strongs and Elites (or Strong mobs in pulls of Elites/Champs) - in other words, the mobs that the DPS should be tanking for the few seconds that they take nuke them down.

 

DPS threat, on the other hand, is exactly delivered on the mobs that you are actually tanking, therefore the 25% threat reduction is an asset.

 

I'm really tired of healers in FPs asking me to Guard them and chewing me out for Guarding DPS - I once got threatened with a boot for not Guarding the healer - and in a FP where one of the DPS was 6 levels above me.

 

I also want to add to your "unless there are level or gearing discrepancies" - on the melee DPS/ranged DPS front - I've got a 50 Sorc, and I routinely outthreat/outdps melee DPS. I will stay within 15 meters if I've got Guard, and I'm not the only one. If you're in a levelling FP and the ranged dps is significantly higher level than the melee, put it on them and tell them to stay within 15 or it's going on the melee. Same for for when everyone is level 50 and your ranged outgears/outskills your melee.

[Huntsjoo]

We had two tanks both of whom insisted on guarding each other.

 

 

The simple solution: Don´t heal until one of them drops.

[Brelfish]

Wisdom.

 

This man knows his stuff.

[Arathea]

PvE:

 

I put my guard on melee DPS or on a ranged DPS if I have reason to believe they will pull more aggro.

 

If I loose aggro to a different DPS I generally keep shield on wherever it is since I'll be taunting and focusing on holding aggro on that loss anyway. Switching target of my guard would just be redundant.

 

I never guard healer in PvE as they don't pull aggro from stuff I hit. They sometimes pull aggro from mobs, but in that case it's from stuff I haven't yet put any aggro on. Thus the guard is pointless.

 

 

PvP:

 

Waiting to start: On healer as idle target. Never wrong.

First clash: On whoever goes into the thick of it and gets aggro by enemies. This is usually me, love how easy it is to pull the psychological aggro in PvP. Holding a ball helps tho.

 

Once the healer yelps that he's spotted and focused he gets it back together with an AoE taunt on his attackers. This usually results in him outhealing incoming damage long enough for most PvPers to loose interest and go find something squishier to hit.

 

At this point it's just swapping to whoever is taking the most incoming fire.

 

Tanks, remember to toggle your guard completely off when you carry the ball. Hate seeing a Jugg melt just before the goal area and not being able to guard him.

 

//Battlemaster Qui-Thala Haera | Lvl 50 Tankassin | Grand Theft Stardestroyer | EU Frostclaw

[Kitru]

I realize that I didn't exactly state WHY you're supposed to use Melee>Ranged DPS>Heals as your guard priority.

 

Personally, I tend to put Guard on targets not based upon a threat generation priority but upon an incoming damage priority because I don't really have threat problems on my tank (even with well geared DPS attempting to explode a target). Healers, since they're pretty much the first target chosen by any adds (of which it generally takes a few seconds to pick up thanks to their healing aggro coupled with the required ramp up time for my AoE threat) and tend to have the worst DR (most DPS trees have some degree of DR in them whereas most of the healer trees do not or have them to a lesser extent), get Guard from me because they will get the most benefit out of the only real use that Guard has for my groups: reducing damage.

[angrydurf]

Guard goes on whoever is the biggest threat challenge to me. Usually a DPS. If none of the DPS are trigger happy and tending to pull aggro I will immediately log and retreat to a secure bunker as surely the endtimes are upon us.

 

More seriously in the rare occurrence where no DPS is challenging my threat I'll drop it on the healer for the 5% mitigation just in case. But this is basically a situation of the guard not really being needed so might as well have it on the squishiest member of the group.

[Baxiepie]

Granted, Ive got about ten levels to go still and understand it might change in the endgame, but Ive always treated it rather fluidly, switching from person to person depending on the encounter

[winzhi]

I use it on marauders because they are squishy and needs all the help they can get. When guildies are on and we run a premade i usually pop it on the healer, because almost everyone else have heavy armor.

 

PvP that is, PvE it always gets on the healer.

Edited January 28, 2012 by winzhi

[ninoss]

On big packs I guard healer so he'll be safe. On small manageable packs/boss I guard top DPS. Usually melee.

 

Guard on healer works wonders with my tanking style (nearly no downtime, charge new pack while dd finishes current one). Ofc, you need good team for that.

[Lemmy_DB]

PVP - guard whoever is taking damage. Same as playing a healer - you wouldn't heal the guy with full-hp, so don't guard the guy who's taking no damage and is in no immediate danger.

 

ofc, you need to be fairly switched on to see who is about to be foused to get the guard on first - it's not good switching it just after he's lost 3/4 of his life.!

 

The 'Guard the healer at all costs' mentality I often see really makes me wonder sometimes..

[RudeMood]

Everything is situational, but I follow some guidelines for choosing my guard targets.

 

PvE:

 

1)The closest melee dps to soak splash damage. This person is also most likely next in line for hate should you be stunned/mezzed/told you're ugly by the mob you're tanking.

 

2) The Healer in the event a large group of mobs that you know, or may not, be able to tank at once.

 

3) That guy that will never wait for you to pull and group your melee mobs, or who thinks cc is a waste of time.

 

Everyone else I have Intercept and Taunts for.

 

PvP:

 

1) The closest melee dps or healer at the start. Operatives are usually keen on my radar as they can be both specs and will usually be close to the combat.

 

2) During battles, the nearest person getting focused if I have a dedicated healer or am at greater than 50% OR the person who is below 50% that I intercept to. I've saved many a posterior rolling my fingers from intercept to guard in one motion.

 

3) The guildie in vent who is attached at the hip, only changing guards to save a healer.

[fyrephly]

Whoever is being focused(in WZs). Edited January 31, 2012 by fyrephly