Are guardians THIS bad or am I just playing it wrong?

[malrats]

I'm currently level 29 doing missions in Tattoine (I've completed all other planets prior so I'm a bit high to be just starting out Tattoine, but I didn't want to miss out on anything).

 

I had been spec'd tank up until about 28 and just wasn't enjoying it, everything took forever to kill and I was still getting beaten half to death anyway. so I respec'd to DPS and things are just as awful, if not worse.

 

I'm 29, the enemies I'm fighting are 25 or less, and I'm just getting obliterated. not dying, but at the end of every fight my tank droid is pretty near death, and I just fought a 25 elite for a solo quest and my droid was dead in seconds and I had to bubble and use a medkit to stay alive.

 

I'm not sure if I'm playing the class wrong, am just terribly geared, or the class really is that bad.

 

as for gear, I take whatever upgrades I can from missions and I save up commendations and get what I can. is there more I should be doing? because this is just downright awful and I feel like I need to try out a different class or something.

[markerbaby]

no need to be useing the droid thats whats wrong. i use quinn! he heals and does dmg, things die Edited January 25, 2012 by markerbaby

[Atamasama]

I had been spec'd tank up until about 28 and just wasn't enjoying it, everything took forever to kill and I was still getting beaten half to death anyway. so I respec'd to DPS and things are just as awful, if not worse.

You shouldn't have done the respec. If Kira isn't putting out enough DPS, check 3 things:

 

Make sure her gear is good and up-to-date and has the right stats.

Make sure she doesn't have any disabled abilities.

Make sure she is in one of her stances (either armor penetration or DOT).

 

If Kira is being used properly she should get you through content very quickly.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Atamasama

[malrats]

the droid and Kira Carsen are all I have so far.

[malrats]

You shouldn't have done the respec. If Kira isn't putting out enough DPS, check 3 things:

 

Make sure her gear is good and up-to-date and has the right stats.

Make sure she doesn't have any disabled abilities.

Make sure she is in one of her stances (either armor penetration or DOT).

 

If Kira is being used properly she should get you through content very quickly.

 

neither my companions or my own gear are good and up-to-date per se, but I really don't know how to get anything better. like I said, I take quest rewards and buy stuff with commendations, what more is there?

 

and no, there are no disabled abilities and she's definitely set to a stance (the DOT, I believe).

[UberRod]

As far as tanks go, the Jedi Guardian is sub par. Mine is on Balmorra and can barely survive the elite stingers, dying 7 out of 10 times and I'm a level or two higher than they are. My squishy Sage can take out a group of bad guys, then realize that hey, that last one is an elite and take it out without too much trouble.

 

A Sage's Force Armor is incredibly strong, blocking pretty much all damage for 30 seconds. Guardians, who are supposed to be tanks, have nothing close to this. Granted I'm specced more for DPS, and am only level 35, but still...

 

Guardians just need to be tougher in my opinion. Maybe I'm spoiled from City of Heroes where a tank can jump into a spawn of 20 bad guys and barely get hurt, even if one or more are bosses. Granted it takes awhile to kill everything with lowered tank damage.

 

It may take me awhile to kill an elite, but I shouldn't need to fear face planting 10 seconds into the fight.

 

And the mission on Tatooine where you have to kill the 3 Sith Harrowers? That is an exercise in pain. Guardians just need to be tougher.

[UberRod]

neither my companions or my own gear are good and up-to-date per se, but I really don't know how to get anything better. like I said, I take quest rewards and buy stuff with commendations, what more is there?

 

and no, there are no disabled abilities and she's definitely set to a stance (the DOT, I believe).

 

Get orange gear and keep upgrading the armoring mods. This gives armor ratings way above the various non-orange armor drops. Stick with the blue or higher armoring mods, don't fool with the green basic ones.

 

If you have any social levels you can buy Kira a full set of light upgradeable armor. Sure she looks like she's ready for some ballroom dance, but it's upgradeable armor for dirt cheap.

[Mystry]

We are just that bad, and you're playing it wrong.

[BrianDavion]

As far as tanks go, the Jedi Guardian is sub par. Mine is on Balmorra and can barely survive the elite stingers, dying 7 out of 10 times and I'm a level or two higher than they are. My squishy Sage can take out a group of bad guys, then realize that hey, that last one is an elite and take it out without too much trouble.

 

A Sage's Force Armor is incredibly strong, blocking pretty much all damage for 30 seconds. Guardians, who are supposed to be tanks, have nothing close to this. Granted I'm specced more for DPS, and am only level 35, but still...

 

Guardians just need to be tougher in my opinion. Maybe I'm spoiled from City of Heroes where a tank can jump into a spawn of 20 bad guys and barely get hurt, even if one or more are bosses. Granted it takes awhile to kill everything with lowered tank damage.

 

It may take me awhile to kill an elite, but I shouldn't need to fear face planting 10 seconds into the fight.

 

And the mission on Tatooine where you have to kill the 3 Sith Harrowers? That is an exercise in pain. Guardians just need to be tougher.

 

 

guards definatly need to be tougher or our DPS needs to be raised. our DPS in comparison to the shadow and the vanguard is simply unacceptable

[Echthelion]

Actually, I have found exactly the opposite- for most normal PVE, the guardian is actually quite easy and fun to play.

 

A few suggestions:

1) Pick a companion to kind of specialize in. I would suggest Kira early as she is pure dps, but I suspect you could do the same if you geared T-7 appropriately and put him in dps mode. If you choose quest rewards for that companion you will often find that they might be better geared than you.

 

2) I went with customizable gear so I could use commendations to buy upgrades for them. This allowed me to constantly be improving my gear gradually as I progressed through the story. Also a crafting skill helps here a lot so do not neglect it. It is much better than in most games I have found as far as being helpful while you are leveling up. Go for blue pattern upgrades as much as possible to be able to save on token use.

 

3) You have abilities that help survivability, use your cool downs and do not be afraid to blow them if you are in a tight spot.

 

4) Keep Kira or T-7 attacking your target by using the pet controls (Ctrl-1 is attack my target I believe.) This helps you mow through the targets faster as you are both attacking the same target, which helps to get the fight over quicker and lower the amount of damage you take for each engagement which means less time spent kneeling and passing the time. Before you get Doc also remember that Kira can get threat away from you if you find yourself on the short end of the damage race. Stop attacking and let her grab the threat in order to preserve yourself. May not be manly, but it can help in some situations.

 

5) Use your abilities that stun mobs to take them out of the fight for a few seconds. Stasis or hilt strike are great. Also use interrupts like kick and the above to block the mobs big damage charge attacks.

 

6) Once I got Doc, the game completely changed for me. You pretty much play like a two man instance group. You hold threat-he heals you. It almost gets to the point of being boring- even against most elites. The only danger here is trying to pull too much at once or wandering elites, as you can then start taking too much damage for him to heal.

 

I hope this helps.

[Atamasama]

I'll also vouch for those who said to get orange gear and then just buy mods for them. Do the same for your companion. Kira's initial lightsaber can be upgraded with mods, I'm level 44 and replaced her weapon for the first time because I got tired of its appearance. You could use her starting weapon forever if you wanted and just get mods for it. Mods can be purchased with cash on each planet, or you can spend commendations for blue quality mods (which are of course better). Armor, hilt, and barrel mods are 7 commendations for whatever planet you're on and the other mods only cost 2 commendations each. Armor, hilts, and barrels are more expensive because aside from giving your gear stat bonuses, they also determine what armor rating or DPS the gear is.

[ActionAce]

Once you learn to maximize your abilities you will do better. The class becomes a blast in the 40s and it's worth the wait

[Wheresthemilk]

guards definatly need to be tougher or our DPS needs to be raised. our DPS in comparison to the shadow and the vanguard is simply unacceptable

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/Jackman1118/Screenshot_2012-01-25_19_14_18_504220.jpg

 

ya ur right. buff us please! I think with a buff I could do about 300k more damage then the next guy. that would be fair.

[matthiaskotor]

If you're getting creamed by equal-level bad guys (that aren't champions/bosses), something is wrong. You and your companion should be able to beat an equal-level elite or a strong with several normal/weak guys handily.

 

If you are built as a tank, make sure you are using Soresu form, only wear Heavy armor, and have equipped a shield generator in your offhand. You take WAY less damage. If you are trying to use T7 as a tank, make sure he is in his tanking stance and not his DPS one. Kira is not an effective tank.

 

Timely use of interrupts (Kick) and stuns (Stasis/Push/Pommel Strike) makes fighting tough enemies WAY easier. Interrupt whenever they wind up to do something nasty. If you don't have an interrupt, stun instead. Use Hilt Strike, Opportune Strike, and Riposte whenever you can. Do not be afraid to blow cooldowns against tough enemies.

 

One good approach for a tough mob like a boss: leap in, stun repeatedly, then use both defensive cooldowns one after the other when you can't stun anymore. When they are done, your stuns should be mostly cooled down again, and the mob should be at least half-dead while you've taken almost no damage. Against very tough enemies (like class quest bosses), use Call on The Force at the start of the fight; the regen will keep you alive a lot longer. Also, a good trick to use sometimes is to send your companion in first (CTRL+1 by default while targeting something), then leap in and start beating on things. If your companion gets too close to dying, use Taunt or Challenging Call to pull mobs back to you.

 

As for gear: whenever a quest reward is an upgrade for a slot where you don't have an orange item, or they offer you an upgrade for a companion, take it. Otherwise, take commendations. Use commendations (or cash when possible; try the 'specialty goods vendor' on most worlds) to buy blue and orange gear, or upgrades for your orange gear. Appropriate-level Flashpoints also drop great stuff. As a JK you want 'Guardian' or 'Might'/'Rage' mods. (Guardian gives more endurance/survivability, Might/Rage gives more Strength/damage.) +Defense is also good.

 

One thing they do NOT make terribly clear for companions: they only really use one 'primary' attribute. For T7 this is Aim (whether you use him as a tank or DPS), and for Kira this is Willpower. They do NOT need any other attributes; the primary attribute will increase the potency of all their abilities. Do not give Kira +Strength items. (All the quest gear that drops specifically for them will have the 'right' attribute.) I recommend getting a nice orange weapon for your companion and keeping it up to date, as this will DRAMATICALLY increase their damage output.

 

If you're doing a fair number of side/bonus quests, you should have every slot for both you and your companion with something fairly close to your level, and moddable items should have mods close to your level as well. Note that for orange items, the 'Armoring' slot determines the overall level of the item and how much armor it gives you (similarly, the 'Hilt' determines DPS for a saber/sword, and the 'Barrel' determines DPS for a ranged weapon.) So make sure you upgrade those; they're much more important than the other mod slots! That's also why they cost 7 commendations instead of 2.

[malrats]

If you're getting creamed by equal-level bad guys (that aren't champions/bosses), something is wrong. You and your companion should be able to beat an equal-level elite or a strong with several normal/weak guys handily.

 

the sad part is, they're actually like 4-5 levels lower than me.

 

but thanks everyone for the advice, so far I've done a little tiny bit of gear upgrading and haven't seen a difference, but we'll see what happens. this is very frustrating lol.

 

also keep in mind that I'm still DPS spec, idk if everyone was assuming that I'd switched back to to tank or something.

[matthiaskotor]

the sad part is, they're actually like 4-5 levels lower than me.

 

but thanks everyone for the advice, so far I've done a little tiny bit of gear upgrading and haven't seen a difference, but we'll see what happens. this is very frustrating lol.

 

also keep in mind that I'm still DPS spec, idk if everyone was assuming that I'd switched back to to tank or something.

 

You should be destroying mobs 4-5 levels lower than you, even elites.

 

If you're specced for DPS, the 'right' companion early on is T7 in his tanking stance. When you fight something tough, send him in first, give him a few seconds to build some threat, then start wailing on the bad guy. You should still try to interrupt/stun any damaging abilities the enemy uses. It should keep attacking T7, and he should live long enough for you to kill or seriously hurt elites/bosses before he drops.

 

If he's dying really fast, make sure he's in his tank stance, that he has a shield generator in his 'offhand' slot, and that he has reasonable gear and no empty gear slots. You can buy robot parts/armor on the trade network, or do side quests and pick the rewards that are specifically for him. Make sure he has a really good blaster to hold aggro.

 

Or you can go with a DPS companion and just try to overwhelm things before they kill you. You may have a tough time against high-damage elite mobs, though.

[Direach]

My Guardian is lvl 24 now, all Vigilance spec, and I have never died to anything less than multiple elites while solo. Most groups of regular mobs are destroyed in moments by the combination of Force Leap/Force Sweep + T7's grenade and AE fire attack. Whatever is left standing gets mopped up quickly. It's rare that I ever have the opportunity to use Master Strike.

 

I've got 4 orange pieces on T7 (blaster, 2x Core, Sensor), 3 on myself (weapon, chest, legs), and everything else is blue. Anything -4 or -5 is honestly trivial. You need to look carefully at what you're doing or not doing that's making life so tough... gear is the most likely problem, but it could also be poor choice of ability use, or companion abilities not being used. Go through your list of abilities and make sure you're not neglecting to use anything useful. I would definitely recommend that you stick with T7 as a co-tank until you get a better feel for things.

[Valenhil]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I just finished Balmorra with my Defense Guardian and I'm reaching the conclusion I'm unbeatable. People keep complaining about Darth Praven, Angral, the 3 Sith Harrowers, but I just breezed through them. Get an orange piece everywhere you can, upgrade them, Leap to an elite. just do a normal rotation of Sunder-> X-> Y-> Sunder with Riposte off the GCD and using your stuns and interrupts, you'll barely take damage.

 

Now that I have Doc, I can kill some mobs not intended to be soloed pretty damn easily, considering.

[Poe_]

This thread is an interesting example of what the forums can do for you. There are more people saying that the class is strong and solid when played a certain way, then whiners complaining that we need a buff. Kudos Guardians!

[Avap]

I agree that the guardian could get a small buff as far as tanking goes ive noticed that ranged attackers hit guardians really hard, as far as melee goes ive been getting hit for no more than 150 damage.

 

My guardian is only 27 ATM Tank speced, and i have been able to complete MOST heroic 2 quests alone with Kira out. Normally tanking 2 strong mobs and an elite.\

 

The one thing i can suggest is try and keep debuffs up on the target at all times

[Faolon]

This thread is an interesting example of what the forums can do for you. There are more people saying that the class is strong and solid when played a certain way, then whiners complaining that we need a buff. Kudos Guardians!

 

 

I don't think anyone would argue that we need small buffs here or there.

Those who know what they're doing, though, will tell you we're nowhere near as broken and weak as some claim.

 

 

There are just A LOT of players who are very bad at this game and don't want to accept that. So they'll blame the class instead of figuring out what they're doing wrong.

The OP was smart enough to question, which is why he'll probably end up doing well once it's all figured out.

[DaggerKeyes]

I seem to be having trouble with the bosses. Almost every boss either takes me 2 or three times to fight or if I can't beat them, I call in my friend to help take the boss out.

 

I am a lv31 guardian tank on alderaan. I recently reset my skill tree so I could be a tank.

I use Kira now since she is a DPS. She is not a tank so she ends up dying toward the end of a boss fight.

I have her armor upgraded to around lv 25. Probably need to get some upgrades.

I don't have any orange items, mostly blue.

Ive been gathering holocrons to raise my base stats which helps a little.

 

Now when I play in pvp, I seem to get kill a lot. I don't get very many kills and usually end up in the mid lower scoreboard unless I play hutt ball.

 

Does anyone else as a tank have trouble in pvp or boss battles?

[Aethaer]

I used T7 as Vigilance spec and rolled through content, never died more than once on a boss fight. So yea I'm pretty sure you're doing it wrong

[Seismax]

Wouldn't hurt if you mentioned what kind of dps spec you're using and your skill priorities, jedi knights are one of the easier classes to screw up with, and if you're doing it wrong your dps will suffer greatly.

 

Also, don't feel too bad about tatooine, that final sand demon is a beast and unless they fixed it recently will wreck most people that come in unprepared.

[Sandover]

Guardian levelling is extremely easy once you figure out the right mix of Kill to survival ratio.

 

What this means is because you don't have a healer, yet, you will need to kill whatever it is you go up against faster. This take some skill as you can actually use objects, LOS, and what not to your advantage.

 

As a Guardian "tank" I did all of the missions by myself with my companion up until the very last mission with ... "Spoiler" the emperor. And I used Kira Carsen for all of it. Without gear, your companions are pretty much useless, but Kira IS your DPS. So keep her geared up. The obvious is you will need to do some micro managing of her attack targets and have all of her attack skills active via the companion skill bar. In some fights you might want to attack her targets or make her attack yours. It is a DPS race and without her, the fight will go longer than your effective health.

 

Think of it in terms of Effective Health over actual health and effective DPS. To survive any fight you have to make your Effective health out last the enemies.

 

Effective health comes from:

 

1. Healer - A healer will almost always keep your effective health above the enemies. This is not to say that you don't need to dps.
   
2. Shield - The absorption from a shield obviously absorbs damage that would normally take away from your actual health.
   
3. Sacrificing companion - Sending your companion in first to pull threat, then when the companion is about 1/4 dead, taunt the mobs off them. Their health is added to your health as effective health.
   
4. Damage reduction - Based on Armor value (not to be confused with damage absorption) will also increase your effective health.
   
5. med kits - "increases" your effective health through healing by a certain amount.
   

 

In most cases, since DPS as a tank is ... well, poor, you will need your highest damaging companion out. This means that they also have to be geared for the task. A companion's effectiveness is about 1/3 less than you. This means that they only add to your dps or effective health.

 

So if you add a companion's DPS + health to yours, that is the total amount of effective DPS and effective Health you will have against an enemy. The rest is all about how you use this.

 

Additionally, when you are levelling up, choose talents that will "naturally" help you reduce damage and put the rest of the points in DPS trees such as Vigilance. The DPS is your "threat" builder since you are limited in taunts and threat gen from the "Tanking" tree.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Sandover